torture is fundementally inhumane

[stellanoir]

Basically anyone of us would say anything to make it just stop.

This policy was sponsored by someone who got off as a kid as getting off on blowing up frogs with fireworks.

Check out your PDA's for those particular proclivities.

It's borderline sanctioned and leglized sadism folks.

It's unvelievably deranged.

And we've had our laws subverted to pre Magna Carta standards.

They think they are above laws long established.

They think they are above the law.

When selective amnesia is a prerequisite for employment at the DOJ something is seriously wrong.

When unearned executive privilege is a catch all excuse, it sears one's senses.

When the balance of powers have been unduly tipped to the executive something is amuck.

May truth eclipse falsehood in these times. May honour eclipse greed. May clarity eclipse deceit. May transparency elipse obfuscation.
May peace eclipse war. May faith in basic human kindeness eclipse fear. May we not bomb Iran.

Kudo's to CC on her inspiration

http://www.kpfa.org/archives/index.php?arch=22483

Much more later.

"nam-myoho-renge-kyo"

[alfredo]

1. And those who promote it are sick

Maybe the 25th amendment could be used.

[Bluerthanblue]

2. not to be argumentative but,

your title caught in my brain- (admittedly a strange one)

Do animals torture? Do animals torment other animals for some kind of "gain"?

The word "inhumane"- is what jumps out at me-

I've really begun to wonder as I've grown old, whether humans are more likely the most "inhumane" creatures in the world. We "know" what is moral, yet we do things which violate all morality.

Not sure that I can think of an animal that does what we do- including the waging of war.

???

[stellanoir]

3. My son's cat tortures rodents

That doesn't mean I agree with him.

Just feel this is something we should have overcome long ago, is all.

And it saddens me deeply.

[Celebration]

5. oh yeah

Beloved cats torture rodents, no doubt. Maybe physical reality is actually hell.

[stellanoir]

8. Well I figure humans could be better.

Perhaps we could strive for that.

[Celebration]

12. *Could* is the operative word here n/t

[stellanoir]

17. ain't that the truth luv

[Bluerthanblue]

10. is the cat torturing them? or

practicing his hunting?-

Not to be dense, but to me, torture involves inflicting harm on someone else, knowing that you are causing pain- discomfort- distress- something that usually brings up feelings of empathy if those actions are happening to someone the torturer has positive feelings for,--

but when applied to people that the torturer fears,- sees as a threat,- or who possesses something the torturer desires, sometimes that same repulsive treatment is seen as....?.... pleasant?....at least tolerable, and even sometimes sadistic-ly pleasurable?-

I completely agree with you about we humans not advancing beyond using brute force, and cruel actions to get what we desire.- The lack of compassion/empathy/ and ..connectedness... human beings often display towards one another is very discouraging, and depressing.

Some "undeveloped" societies evidence much more "intelligence" and wisdom than our "high tech" ones- The Penan people of the Borneo rainforest is an excellent example.

Cats who play with their victims, dogs who kill for 'sport'- not for need, also spend quite a bit of time around us ....humans...?

:shrug:
peace
sorry for this tangent.

[I Have A Dream]

13. I think that killer whales have been found killing for sport. n/t

[Celebration]

16. intention

I think you make a good point about the intention of cats. I have no idea. There are animals that rise above their species. I love the random stories about things like mother pigs that save a kitten when the mother cat dies and things like that. My sister's family owns a ranch in Texas, and next door to them is some sort of exotic hunting ranch. Somehow this baby elk from that ranch was raised by the cattle on her ranch. Every time I went to visit there was this random elk grazing with one bunch of the cattle. Obviously they were Quaker cattle. :)

I don't think you can blame cats torturing chipmunks on humans. That is a bit of a stretch. I am a very sweet peaceful kind of person, but the birds and the like suffered in my yard.

[Silver Gaia]

23. K&R... On cats...

Excellent post. Thank you, stella. :)

I want to make a comment on the cat discussion:

Yes, cats do sometimes seem to torture their victims before they kill them. And they also sometimes just kill for the sake of killing and often do not even eat the creatures they've killed.

BUT... There is a huge difference, IMO, between this, and humans torturing other humans. Cats do not torture other cats. They, of course, do fight with other cats, and those fights can be pretty rough and gruesome, but torture is not a part of it. Cats only torture creatures they see as a potential food source.

JMHO.

[Bluerthanblue]

24. thanks - you framed this much

more accurately than I did-

[Riktor]

14. Some do...

Some cats are known to toy with their prey before killing it, and most house cats will kill merely for the sake of killing. In fact, they are the most prolific killers in the animal kingdom, bringing down the more species of prey than any other animal on the planet. If it weren't for my opposable thumbs and my ability to use a squirt gun, I'd be scared to death of my cats.

[Cleita]

4. Awesome post stellanoir.

You tell it like it is.

:applause:

[stellanoir]

6. thanks hon

and I'm working on something far less spurious.

You are a great support luv

[stellanoir]

18. Honey if I could find my glasses

[Solly Mack]

7. K&R

[stellanoir]

9. It's so simple to me

Why is it so obfuscated to so many???

Never hurt a living thing is a great place to start.

:)

[Solly Mack]

11. It really is so simple

[spanone]

15. "nam-myoho-renge-kyo"

[lildreamer316]

19. I join you in wishing..

for peace and justice...

[davsand]

20. Wouldn't you think war mongers would want the protection of a torture ban?

I've never been able to wrap my head around that basic concept. If you are gonna make a war--actively work to start one--wouldn't you WANT protection from being tortured yourself? Seems to me the true soldiers get it, but THEY are the ones out there doing the actual fighting. The guys making policy decisions are sitting safe on the other side of the planet...



Yes, I agree:

May peace eclipse war.

May faith in basic human kindness eclipse fear.

May we not bomb Iran.


In peace.


Laura

[Grateful for Hope]

21. K&R! n/t

[Dora]

22. What part of "wrong is wrong" are people not getting?

This month's Harper's has an interesting essay calling for a general strike. It seems pretty compelling. Haven't had a chance to read it closely yet, but I'm looking forward to a good sit down tonight.

I'm all tired of asking politicians what they will do IF and WHEN they are elected...

Nobody's doing anything NOW NOW NOW NOW.

I'm ready and willing to walk out of the office and have a picnic with some likeminded resisters, revolutionaries, and peaceniks. Who will join? I dunno - everybody's gotta go to work...

[Chemical Bill]

25. Well said.

:kick: