In theory, I could have been fired this week for merely having gone to Pride

[dsc]

One of my students, who is openly gay, saw me at Pride and told one of my classes she saw me there. While I don't out and out lie at school I also am not honest. After this most of my class thinks I am gay (I was asked and stated I don't discuss my personal life). In many of the districts I have worked for in the past that would have been enough to cost me my job. Here, if my union rep is correct, I will be OK.

This is why I don't feel all that sorry for Senator Craig. He is why I am dependent upon the kindness of my district not to be fired for the above. He was one of the 50 Senators who voted against ENDA in 1996, when it failed 49 to 50. He is thus responsible.

He isn't a criminal in my mind. He probably should have had his plea thrown out. But he surely doesn't deserve his Senate seat. He deserves to be treated exactly as he would have me treated. I could have been fired for merely going to Pride. This isn't unique.

Craig should get exactly and precisely what he would give others. Kind of a reverse golden rule.

[TomInTib]

1. Well put, dsc.

It wasn't what he did. To me, that is no different than trying to pick someone up in a bar.

It's the never-ending hypocrisy that pisses me off.

I am glad that you are working in a more sensible district than in times past.

How in the hell, in 2007, someone could be terminated for nothing more than their sexual orientation blows my mind.

[dsc]

2. thanks

and good luck with your partner.

[Mend]

18. I think peeking at other people on the toilet is not the same as a bar encounter

however it long past time to end all discrimination...you deserve never to worry about your job.

[MadMaddie]

3. Well said..dsc

People like Craig deserve absolutely no sympathy from anyone....he made his bed and now he can lay in it...

As for the student it wasn't her place to tell everyone that she saw you there. If you wanted everyone to know you would have told them. This student needs to respect others privacy....

[dsc]

4. She wasn't being malicious in fairness

I wasn't thrilled but it was a public event and all so such is life.

[MadMaddie]

5. Yes you are right...I guess we come from a different mindset

where you just don't talk about our lives unless we are sure of our surroundings...you know what I mean?

[dsc]

6. Oh I know what you mean

I wish she hadn't done this but in a year I will likely be glad she did.

[Ms. Toad]

7. Yeah, I occasionally used to run into students at those.

None of my students ever shared anything with their classmates. Since "queer" was about the worst put down they could use against each other, revealing they saw me would have subjected them to quite a bit of abuse. The upside was that I was out to a few students, one of whom remains a good friend a couple of decades later. I, too, could have been fired but it just took too much energy to hide.

That was nearly 20 years ago - times sure have changed. My daughter is about to go to homecoming with a gaggle that includes buddy who is openly bi (and is bringing a female date), and a gay male who is at least open enough that my daughter knows about it. When the bi friend was threatened with suspension last year, around 20 of her friends got together and wore T-shirts promoting free speech (the threatened suspension was for wearing an "I love my girlfriend" T-shirt). My spouse and I are both actively involved in her education and accepted without question (and have been since she was in kindergarten).

[dsc]

8. Times have changed

She is openly gay so she had nothing to lose. I don't think she was being malicious here. Good for you and your daughter.

[Ms. Toad]

16. More than being good for us

(we've always lived openly), good for the school district.

The district is widely known for its conservative values and approach. (Male teachers are required to wear ties, except for Fridays when they can wear a school sweater instead, the principal brings a breathalyser to all the school dances, and girls are not allowed to go sleeveless - and even cap sleeves are not long enough.) With the exception of the assistant principal (who threatened my daughter's friend with suspension) and the state mandated abstinence education no one has ever given my daughter the message that there is anything wrong (or even out of the norm) with her family. My daughter says her classmates' and her parents' sexual orientation just isn't something any one cares about.

[Beerboy]

9. Why not just threaten to sue?

Why should anyone have to put up with bull-shit like this?
Is this thread about you, Senator Craig, or both?
There could be a point here, but where?

[Olney Blue]

10. dsc said "in theory"- there is no one to "sue" at this point- he still has his job

I thought the point of dsc's post was very clear.

[Richard Steele]

11. I have the same questions about post # 9 on this thread. What a world, what a world. nm

[Ms. Toad]

12. Aside from anything else,

The student reported the truth. Truth is an absolute defense to the only torts I am aware of (slander and libel) that might possibly be involved. (Besides which, the student was not being malicious, probably doesn't understand why some of us old fogies are so paranoid about being found out, and it probably didn't cross her mind that revealing his attendance at Pride could get him fired.)

That little legal issue aside, the point is that GLBT folks can be fired merely for being suspected of being GLBT. There is absolutely no legal protection against being fired merely for sexual orientation or gender identity or expression (in most parts of the US - there are a few exceptions) - even if it has no impact on your job performance.

Senator Craig has actively worked for laws which are designed to ensure that DSC can continue to be fired for being seen at a legal, public event celebrating our community, while Craig was apparently apparently engaging in activities that he publicly condemned - and for which he has now been convicted of engaging in criminal activity.

[Neshanic]

15. Thank you Ms. Toad, you beat me to it. Nice post.

[Romulox]

25. Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress is a tort for which truth is not a defense...nt

[Ms. Toad]

29. It also doesn't apply here.

DSC indicated she wasn't being malicious. Hard to establish the requisite intent if the target doesn't believe she was being malicious.

[Neshanic]

13. That response shows how completely unfamiliar with the law concerning being gay at work you are.

First sue who? His employer? His employer can fire him for anything he wants unless he has tenure or is protected some other way. If he resides in a state other than New Jersey, and the other one handfull of states that specifically prohibit firing or hiring based on sexual orientation, it's pretty much a done deal.

Sue...the only way that works in a state like say Arizona which has no such rights, along with the majority of the other states is to prove harrassment at work that goes beyond almost torture so that you were forced out, and that is only maybe settled out of court because the company does not want the publicity.

Try to learn the basic rights that gays do not have.

This may help you.

http://www.hrc.org/laws_and_elections/state.asp

[Brazenly Liberal]

17. NONONONONONONO!!!!!!!!!

This is all theoretical, of course, since dsc is still employed. BUT...............

I see you are on the side of the angels here, but let's not settle for crumbs when it comes to equality. Why should dsc - or any gay person - have to threaten lawsuits just to get through the day, dealing with the ordinary business of life? This is, to me, a critical component of equal rights. If because of your minority status you have to go outside the system to get what everyone else gets by default, if you have to do any ups or extras in terms of effort, if you be "other" (as in civil union instead of marriage), if you have to play ridiculous games like Don't Ask Don't Tell, that is not equal rights. That is bullshit.

[dsc]

19. There is no legal theory under which I could sue

NC and the US don't protect gays from summary firing.

[mitchtv]

28. Your Union does

One of the top reasons people join unions? Due process.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

14. sorry about that and yes, he is one of the people to blame.

[backscatter712]

20. Reminds me of a situation...

A couple friends of mine went to a BDSM convention, and saw a guy at the convention hotel who was photographing all the con-goers. He turned out to be from some fundamentalist church, and he was collecting evidence, for who-knows-what. The hotel staff, when alerted, had security escort him off the premises.

It's disgusting as hell that people engaging in consensual adult activity should have to worry about that shit.

:scared:

[knitter4democracy]

21. One of my good college friends was almost kicked out of the ed program.

She decided as a senior not to lie to herself anymore (how she put it) about being a lesbian, and it started a whole semester of nastiness. The education profs, not wanting to lose a great teacher, did everything they could to make sure no one at her student teaching placement found out, and the college admins clearly just wanted her to leave. They actually made her come out to all of her friends, and I was just sick when she started trying to tell me and got upset. She was so scared that I wouldn't be her friend anymore.

Stupid evangelical Christian college doing that to her. Grrrrrrr! I was livid with the administration for making it so much harder for her, when it was hard enough, and I was even more pissed when I found out the year after she graduated that her so-called friends and apartmentmates had told many people and talked about her behind her back, convinced that she'd been hitting on them the whole time (they wish).

You should be able to go to a parade. You should be able to live how you want. You should be able to teach anywhere and still be yourself, and I'm sick of people saying you can't or threatening your job just because of who you are. If that happened at my kids' school, you'd better believe I'd start a full-court press to protect the teacher.

[dsc]

22. I remember you posting about that

Do you have any idea how she is today? Is she working?

[knitter4democracy]

23. I've tried tracking her down but can't find her.

She has a common name, though, which makes it harder. Of course, she hasn't kept the college up-to-date (I wonder why), which doesn't help.

I still say anyone who's qualified should teach, regardless of personal life (as long as they're not endangering kids--into kid porn, etc.).

[dsc]

26. that is too bad

I really hope she is OK and working.

[knitter4democracy]

27. Me too.

Me too.

[pingzing58]

24. You have my support dsc. I'm happy you are working in safe environment. Teacher's Unions are good.