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liberal hypnotist Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 10:52 AM
Original message
Smoking Statistics Debunked
Smoking Statistics Debunked Oct. 6, 2007 by liberalhypnotist

Smoking can’t be as bad as they say, can it? Just think of it, if the statistics are accurate and 450,000 people die each year directly related to illness resulting from tobacco use and another 8. 2 million Americans are chronically ill due to tobacco use our government leaders would be going ballistic. Each year the Center for Disease Control (CDC) and the National Health Institute (NHI) publish statistics related to smoking and other epidemics. If their smoking statistics were true, (insert tongue in cheek) that means that death by smoking out ranks death by automobile accident, alcohol, drug overdose, murder and AIDS combined. Let’s face it no self-respecting congressional member would accept money from the tobacco lobby, if that degree of carnage was related to smoking.

So why are the CDC and NHI trying to scare us? How much does it cost taxpayers each year to accumulate and publish these erroneous facts? What about this, if 450,000 people did die each year from tobacco use, wouldn’t we have some kind of warning mechanism like a color coded smokers’ alert? Sure we would! Just the fact that our governmental leaders are silent, proves that such statistics are truly bogus! In fact, I challenge anyone to prove these shaky statistics.

Here’s further proof: we tax tobacco and alcohol products and derive billions of dollars of much needed revenue from these taxes. We call them sin taxes. Yes, I believe smoking and drinking to access is a sin- a moral issue and that’s a religious matter, not a national health crisis. Recently, I heard a republican conservative senator say (sic) “if we raise the tax on cigarettes to fund expanded health care for children and then people quit smoking, what would we do?” Get it? The term “conservative” means people who are very careful and thoughtful about everything they do and say. In other words, smoking is good for you because legislators want to be sure we’ll keep smoking.

On the other hand, I’ve heard liberal types claim that if smoking were significantly reduced or eliminated; we would save so much on medical costs, we could fund Universal Health Care. See how they think, falling in lock step with the CDC and NHI. Of course with fewer people dying of tobacco related illness that would engorge the Social Security rolls, “the dole” and thus impact our ability to bring democracy to the world through military action.

Here’s a fool proof way to debunk the CDC and NHI statistics. Research how much money your congressional representatives receive from the “Tobacco Lobby” and tobacco related institutions. If they take regular and large donations, trips and gifts then smoking must be healthy. If they refuse this money, they must be liberal and not careful and thoughtful in their money gathering methods.

OK, I know there are tree huggers out there that believe tobacco use is dangerous, if not deadly. So here’s my challenge. If you can prove the CDC and NHI statistics are accurate or even nearly accurate, (within a margin of 3% + or-) I’ll buy you a box of Kinky Freidman cigars. Now I watched him on Fox TV, or CNN, and they are “fair and balanced”. Kinky stated, “Cigar smoking is not dangerous to your health”, especially his brand. So, if you can’t believe Kinky, who can you believe? The gauntlet has been thrown! “Smoke em if you got em!” Next post: the military supports smoking for health.



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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. "sin" tax is technically a violation of Church and State, and therefore unconstitutional
'nuff said. :)
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. You are so full of crap.
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 10:59 AM by originalpckelly
I mean, one's completely healthy if they set something on fire and suck on it routinely.

Don't people need treatment for smoke inhalation at hospital?

I mean, after all, it is the intended purpose of human lungs to suck on smoke filled air, isn't it?
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. stress is the biggest killer of all... but we, as a society, don't seem to concerned about that
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 11:02 AM by ixion
quite the opposite, in fact.

Stress literally rips your body to shreds. Literally, and with far greater veracity than smoking. If we want to save lives, we should try and reduce both the passive and active stress factors that we deal with on a day-to-day basis.

That will save far more lives that a bunch of bogus anti-smoking legislation ever will.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Oh yeah, stress gives you lung cancer and heart disease...
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 11:01 AM by originalpckelly
oral cancer, and increases the risk of about any other cancer.

Yeah, bite me. It's wrong to let people think smoking isn't bad for them, people will literally die as a result of it.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. yes, it does give you cancer and heart disease
as I said, it literally rips your body to shreds.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Oh bite it, you know what I mean.
:P
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Retired AF Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. And just think
a hundred years from now it does not matter if you smoke or not. We will all be dead.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
5. 'I’ve heard liberal types claim' - 'I know there are tree huggers out there'
If this is satire, you had best make it more obvious. This reads like a fact sheet from any number of conservative websites!
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. I know, this isn't clear...
if it's satire, it's deviously disguised.
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liberal hypnotist Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. Obvious?
Thanks for the heads up. I thought I was being obvious.
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IntravenousDemilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. Good satire is never obvious.
Why dumb things down for the humour-challenged? It's so much more fun to see them squrim needlessly.
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CT_Progressive Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
6. Prove they are not accurate.
We don't have to prove shit.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
10. Looks like you are a graduate of the Rush Limbaugh School of Logic.
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 11:14 AM by mondo joe
Your "proof" is that if smoking were as bad as it said to be, no self respecting congressperson would take Tobacco money?

:eyes:
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Maybe it's meant as sarcasm, if they really gave a shit...
why would they take that money?
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Probably because science and politics are two different fields, and because even
unhealthy things may be perfecty legal.
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
11. i need a cig after reading that
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
14. OMG
:rofl:

:popcorn:
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. You've obviously mistaken this board
for one that supports Dick Friedman.

But then, I suspect this is a drive-by post.
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. "I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live,
and shut your fuckin' mouth."



:rofl:
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Sadly, Bill died at 33 of pancreatic cancer
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 01:08 PM by DS1
I miss Bill, I wish (probably not more than he would) he were still around to see what Bush2 is up to.
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. his head probably would've exploded by now
just from filling up with the unbelievable amount of material he'd have in dealing with these folks
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liberal hypnotist Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Excellent!
Thanks for your thoughts. Smoke em if ya got em.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. You guys seriously don't take this serious.
Seriously.
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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. DUDE ARE YOU SERIES!!!1
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liberal hypnotist Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. Serious?
About Kinky yes. He does have his own line of cigars.:evilgrin:
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Raejeanowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. I Find Your Theories Bizarre
Hope you spent most of your post with your tongue firmly in cheek.

I have a problem with the way the smoking statistics really can't be teased apart from other compounded respiratory health risks (like car emissions and other pollution), but that smoking in its direct or indirect forms is sickening and deadly on its own, I have no doubt. I no longer smoke, but I have COPD to prove I once did and spent a few too many years unsuccessfully trying to quit (like about ten serious attempts over fifteen plus years).

The legislatures went to the courts and pretended they had never profited from tobacco, never took a cent in taxes at multiple levels for many years, never supported tobacco farming or commerce, but had paid tremendous Medicaid costs for those smokers who'd dropped dead prematurely. They took the millions and ran, making empty promises about funding cessation, etc.

Yeah, they got those big, bad tobacco companies where it hurt. The price of cigarettes doubled. Hurt the corporations a lot.

The settlement money was blown on everything but what was promised. When it ran out, they started jacking up the taxes again to keep the money flowing, calling it a "cessation" effort. I believe the public restrictions are largely about posturing, too. I don't see such avid policing of everything else we're breathing, but hey, it's easy to target and harass individuals.

Meanwhile, public health agencies and insurance companies looked at the smokers and told them to pay out of pocket to clean up their "bad lifestyle habit." See, if you don't take it seriously, and pretend that it's always a choice governed by willpower, you don't have to treat it like an addiction.

Kids look at the hypocrisy all around and keep lighting up, every new generation. And tobacco interests including the government still sit there milking the cash cow.
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liberal hypnotist Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Settlement Blown!
I saw a great picture of a 10 year old boy that won a Marlboro contest. He received a little NASCAR racer and a racing jacket with Marlboro emblazoned on it. His mom and dad were beaming.I wonder if he'll be a future smoker? National smoke Out Day Nove 16, 2007
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DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. ah hahaha hahaha
:7

I can only wonder if access over excess was done on purpose :D
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
22. Any port in a storm, eh?
Go for the gusto- even if it kills you. Which it is currently trying to do to my girlfriend, a 30 year smoker who believed this drivel until they had to remove a third of her lung earlier this year, only to find out a couple months later the cancer had come back, most likely terminal this time.

:shrug:
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
25. "Research how much $$ your congressional reps receive from the “Tobacco Lobby”- OK!!
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 01:18 PM by Breeze54
Tobacco: Top 20 Senators

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/recips.asp?Ind=A02&cycle=2006&recipdetail=S&Mem=Y&sortorder=U

1 - Allen, George (R-VA) - $101,650

2 - Burns, Conrad (R-MT) - $57,700

3 - Santorum, Rick (R-PA) - $52,800

4 - Lott, Trent (R-MS) - $33,300

5 - Nelson, Ben (D-NE) - $30,250

6 - Ensign, John (R-NV) - $29,500

7 - Nelson, Bill (D-FL) - $26,250

8 - Hatch, Orrin G (R-UT) - $25,000

9 - Baucus, Max (D-MT) - $21,503

10 - Lautenberg, Frank R (D-NJ) - $21,000


11 - DeWine, Mike (R-OH) - $18,200

12 - Burr, Richard (R-NC) - $16,378

13 - McConnell, Mitch (R-KY) - $15,500

14 - Chambliss, Saxby (R-GA) - $15,000

15 - Dodd, Christopher J (D-CT) - $14,700

16 - Clinton, Hillary (D-NY) - $13,550


17 - Dole, Elizabeth (R-NC) - $13,000

17 - Kyl, Jon (R-AZ) - $13,000

19 - Coleman, Norm (R-MN) - $12,000

20 - Menendez, Robert (D-NJ) - $11,100


METHODOLOGY:
The numbers on this page are based on contributions from PACs and individuals giving $200 or more.
All donations took place during the 2005-2006 election cycle and were released by the Federal
Election Commission on Monday, June 04, 2007. Feel free to distribute or cite this material,
but please credit the Center for Responsive Politics.

------------

Tobacco: Money to Congress (2006)

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary.asp?Ind=A02&cycle=2006

HOUSE:

Democrats - # of 78 - Total Contributions - $544,888

Republicans - # of 169 - Total Contributions - $1,439,472

----

SENATE:

Democrats - # of 17 - Total Contributions - $181,203

Republicans - # of 33 - Total Contributions - $474,978







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liberal hypnotist Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Thank You!
I've been looking for that research. Now, how do we find out about the money funneled through tobacco "ghost agencies". I hear it gets into the many millions. thanks again.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. You're welcome. -- Try here:
The Center for Responsive Politics

:hi:
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
30. When you do too much of something, it's "to EXCESS," not "to access."
Just so you know.

Redstone
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liberal hypnotist Donating Member (391 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Thanks, the smoke from the butt hanging off my lips must have gotten into my eyes while I was typing
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. That happens to me, too.
Redstone
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