NYT editorial, On Torture and American Values: "Is this really who we are?"

[DeepModem Mom]

On Torture and American Values
Published: October 7, 2007

Once upon a time, it was the United States that urged all nations to obey the letter and the spirit of international treaties and protect human rights and liberties. American leaders denounced secret prisons where people were held without charges, tortured and killed. And the people in much of the world, if not their governments, respected the United States for its values.

The Bush administration has dishonored that history and squandered that respect. As an article on this newspaper’s front page last week laid out in disturbing detail, President Bush and his aides have not only condoned torture and abuse at secret prisons, but they have conducted a systematic campaign to mislead Congress, the American people and the world about those policies....

***

For the rest of the nation, there is an immediate question: Is this really who we are?

Is this the country whose president declared, “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall,” and then managed the collapse of Communism with minimum bloodshed and maximum dignity in the twilight of the 20th century? Or is this a nation that tortures human beings and then concocts legal sophistries to confuse the world and avoid accountability before American voters?

Truly banning the use of torture would not jeopardize American lives; experts in these matters generally agree that torture produces false confessions. Restoring the rule of law to Guantánamo Bay would not set terrorists free; the truly guilty could be tried for their crimes in a way that does not mock American values.

Clinging to the administration’s policies will only cause further harm to America’s global image and to our legal system. It also will add immeasurably to the risk facing any man or woman captured while wearing America’s uniform or serving in its intelligence forces.

This is an easy choice.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/opinion/07sun1.html?hp

[TahitiNut]

1. Yes, it is.

As we sit on our asses and tolerate this abuse of the power WE delegate to these elected public servants... YES. Unless we were to do EVERYTHING - as we tolerate sending our young folks to leave body parts or die in Iraq and Afghanistan - necessary, we're a nation of cowards and outlaws.

So... my answer is: Yes.

[keopeli]

2. This is what the NYT should have published YEARS AGO. Since they didn't, the answer is "yes."

[me b zola]

3. k&r

[alfredo]

4. KR

[Kablooie]

5. We are doing it. We don't do anything to stop it. So yes. This is who we really are.

[RainDog]

6. the orwellian label "values voters"

as a description of those who support torture and wars of aggression is just another example of how far from truth the discourse has strayed in this country.

I want a yard sign. Values voters condemn torture.

the really disgusting thing about this situation is that the Bush junta has simply redefined torture to suit its wants, and it has has not been taken to task for this.

Why doesn't Dobson call for Bush to stop torturing because it's against Christian doctrine?

Who can bring them to justice? Do we need a group of lawmakers and military police to arrest these people? What do people do in a society supposedly governed by laws when the governing powers have become criminals?

[choie]

8. and still the Times

refuses to call for Impeachment. All this talk, no call for action.

[Grey]

7. YES, no question....

You even have to ask ?

[burrowowl]

9. K&R

Sad, we created the Nuremberg Trials and now we are violating this moral precedent.

[WinkyDink]

10. "Is this really who we are?" RHETORICAL QUESTION, MUCH??

[fasttense]

11. This is what we have turned into under the bushes leadership.

And it was just so damn easy.

[tom_paine]

12. Yes, this is who the Imperial Subjects of Amerika under Bush-Occupation are.

Not pretty, is it?

[Solly Mack]

13. ...

"Or is this a nation that tortures human beings and then concocts legal sophistries to confuse the world and avoid accountability before American voters?"

The best line (and the most honest) from the article...and YES, America is just that nation.

[bemildred]

14. Yep, and it isn't new, it's just more blatant. nt

[Amonester]

15. Someone should send this to House Speaker Pelosi...

Or maybe not. It's too f**k**g late anyway. :grr: