Hillary DID KNOW THEN what she KNOWS NOW!

[kpete]

Hillary DID KNOW THEN what she KNOWS NOW!
by roncorvus
Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 03:19:33 AM PDT

Hillary knew that she did not possess the authority to give Bush authorization (via resolution) to use force at will, but she did it anyway.

Hillary and the other illegal WarFunders have brainwashed Americans into believing they were tricked into giving Bush permission to bomb Iraq; the entire point is, Hillary should have joined all the other Congressmen and women who voted AGAINST giving Bush authoriztion to use force against Iraq. Her brainwashing of America is so complete that most people I talk to mistakenly believe that all the Congressmen and women voted to go to war in Iraq.

What's even worse is, Hillary has learned no lesson. Yesterday Hillary voted "YES" on Bush latest warfunding bill. If you're against war, you don't fund that war. But if you're for war, then you fund that war. Congress controls the pursestrings of war, but Hillary wants you to believe that it's all Bush's fault; so what's her current excuse for continuing to authorize this war? Hillary has re-authorized this war over 14 times with her YES vote to more WarFunding.

...........

Clearly, Hillary is a shameless liar, just like the other WarFunders - telling their constituents Democrats don't have the votes to stop this war - BULLSHIT! Democrats don't need 60 votes as Hillary claims! Democrats only need 41 Senators to vote "NO" on Bush next war bill to stop this war. Guess what? The Democrats have way more than 41 Senators in the Senate! It's all BULLSHIT AND MIRRORS, FOLKS!

more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/7/61933/3939

[DS1]

1. Nope, politicians were gutless in the face of appearing weak against 'terrorism'

[w4rma]

2. Or maybe her (and their) agenda is different from yours. (nt)

[pretzel4gore]

6. DSI thinks hillary bush is sincere, but cowardly?

and you think DSI is naive not to see that hillary (when foxnews reported that hillary and junyer bush are brother/sister, it made sense but sure asked for alot of second looks at recent history-the whole monica/impeachment scandal was just hillary's domestic redressing of big dawg's philandering! but how on earth did 'inside edition' with bill oreilly miss the story? because the bfee told them to? i see... but where did the 'Rodham' come fro...) is a cold blooded opportunist who panders to whatever bias the pigmedia suggest the public aka 'we the people' possess along with all our goodwill? And that's his agenda? (to excuse hillary's sincere cowardice)
i see
jesus christ im getting confused

[superkia]

31. Kucinich said it was about oil and stood alone voting no every time.

[leftchick]

71. actually three things

Oil, Regional Power, Israel.

[Carrieyazel]

32. Especially Hillary. Totally gutless. Spineless. Cold and calculating.

And wrong. She betrayed Democrats. And she must not be the nominee.

[Carolina]

47. EXACTLY!

:hi:

[Forkboy]

68. "Cold and calculating" is sexist.

At least that's what a Hillary supporter said when I used it. ;)

[Bitwit1234]

36. Isn't it odd that the sites and people who are against Hillary

are the ones who MIRACULOUS interpret all the facts against her. Damn what a prophetic bunch of after the fact people. Do the belong to the Monday Morning Quarterback generation.

[emilyg]

42. Amazing!

[Laurab]

56. I find it odd that Hillary-backers DON'T interpret the facts

but just back her blindly, no matter what she does. It reminds me, in a way of * backers, in that she can do whatever she wants, no matter how ill-advised, and yet it doesn't ever seem to bother a single Hillary backer.

I'm not at all prophetic, but I do follow all the candidates, particularly the "top three", and I cannot, for the life of me, figure out what Hillary has done that makes her in any way exceptional, much less the "front runner". She's my senator. She's adequate, nothing more.

I've rarely seen an informational post about her, instead, I see constant bashing of other candidate posts by her followers. Maybe that's why I can't understand how ANYONE would pick her as their #1 choice.

It would be nice to see positive threads about her instead of the constant bashing of her competitors, but I'm not all that sure there's much positive to say about her - as a candidate for President, anyway - I'm sure she's a fine person otherwise.

[Danieljay]

57. Exactly! n/t

[monktonman]

60. I've given up asking for positive Hill inc. post's

there just arent any.

[leftchick]

72. exactly! War with Iran? COOL!

if Hil says so! :crazy:

[mwb970]

78. How ironic!

It reminds me, in a way of * backers, in that she can do whatever she wants, no matter how ill-advised, and yet it doesn't ever seem to bother a single Hillary backer.

As someone who is gradually warming to Hillary after rejecting her at first, I have read the nasty, angry bashing of Hillary and particularly of her Democratic supporters here on DU with disappointment. Her national support continues to grow among Democrats, surpassing 50% for the first time in a poll released this weekend. At the same time, the hatred for her here continues to grow apace.

Here's the irony. The Hillary-bashers remind me, in a way, of * backers, in that a shrinking minority, with increasing anger, describes the members of a growing majority as demented, misinformed, and somehow out of the mainstream. Um, isn't that exactly what the Bushbots do?

By the way, I will vote for whoever the Dems nominate, and I have never bashed any Dem candidate here. For what it's worth.

[Laurab]

85. I too will vote for the Dem nominee

although I do hope it's not Hillary, for a multitude of reasons, the main one being that I don't think she can win the general. She would be the best get-out-the vote candidate, but for the wrong party. I don't really think of myself as a Hillary basher, I think I'm just more or a realist. I want to see a Democratic candidate elected, and after they're elected, I want them to be able to get things done. Hillary will not only have a fight on her hands to win, if she managed to pull it off, she would continue to fight for the four years she was in office.

The repugs think about her EXACTLY the way we feel about bush, no matter that it isn't deserved in her case. I don't want 4 more years of divisive politics, I want change - positive change.

That being said, the fact remains that Hillary supporters rarely, if ever, post good things about her, instead they post other-candidate-bashing posts on a daily, perhaps hourly basis. It's difficult not to respond, although I find myself coming to DU less and less these days. I would love to see some positive posts about good things Hillary has done, as I said in my previous post, but I rarely see any, so it's difficult for me to understand why anyone IS backing her. It's really as simple as that.

[Maribelle]

84. I find it odd people do not realize the power of the president of the most powerful nation on earth.

And to attempt to minimize this super power by painting politicians as being "gutless", merely allows the corruption of the most corrupt administration this nation has ever had to endure to get away with war crimes.

[Vinca]

3. At this point I'm more concerned that she voted to call the military

of a nation a terrorist organization, thereby giving Shrub the reason he needs to continue his jihad against the evil terrorists. Bombs will drop on Iran and Hillary - and many others - will be offering up their excuses and apologies once again.

[Yael]

34. And pulling the power plays against the "little people" who dare ask her to explain that

No thanks.

[dickbearton]

45. Exactly, K&R.

[amandabeech]

46. That is a step down a road that I don't want to be on.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone else wants to be on that road, too, especially since the shrub and heart attack are leading the way.

What is wrong with these people?

I simply cannot figure it out.

[judaspriestess]

59. and at the last debate, she used the tired old term of

"axis of evil" to describe Iran, wtf? when is the last time you heard that phrase? It was strange and out of sorts to me. Almost code word like.

[cali]

4. An emotionally overwrought piece of crap diary from a nut

From the comments section, (and boy, is this diary being slammed by kossacks- hardly known for their support of Hillary)

Wow, this is your website too (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:begone
investigate911.com
You mean... Osama didn't plan 9/11?

I have been enlightened! It was the CIA and the "Israeli Secret Police":

Why hasn't a single person been fired, penalized, or reprimanded

for the gross incompetence we witnessed that day?

Answer: Because 9/11 was an "inside job" orchestrated by traitors inside the Pentagon, assisted by the Israeli secret police and the Central Intelligence Agency. Those guilty parties were not incompetent, but enormously successful at executing the most sophisticated counter-intelligence operation in the history of the world. We strongly suspect that the hijackers of AA11 and UA175 returned to heroes' welcomes in Tel Aviv, or Jerusalem.

Those 2 planes did not crash into the World Trade Center towers.


My candidate was virgin-born out of an apple pie left to cool in the shade of an American flag. -- Hunter

by Plutonium Page on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 03:28:58 AM PDT



uhhh,... (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:begone
Her brainwashing of America is so complete that most people I talk to mistakenly believe that all the Congressmen and women voted to go to war in Iraq.
Dude, I really hate to say this, this is sort of one of those 'your zipper is down' moments, but you got to get some new friends, they sound like complete morons.

Recovering Intellectual. 12 days stupid.

by scionkirk on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 03:43:36 AM PDT



You're Not Stupid (0 / 0)
Not like the rest of us.

Are You Voting Dem In 2008?

by Edgar08 on Sun Oct 07, 2007 at 04:27:33 AM PDT

< Parent >

[OnTheOtherHand]

5. haha!

Nice.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. So in other words, DK has also been invaded by Hillary supporters

Great cut and paste job, BTW. You forgot the comments that agreed with the OP. But hey, I guess the name of the game is whatever it takes to support your girl.

[cali]

14. Bwahaha

kos is definitely not overrunwith Hillary supporters. And I know that some of those commenting negativey aren't Hillary supporters; they're simply smart enough to recognize an ill written piece of crap when they see one. I don't even disagree with some of what that OP wrote, but it's simply an ill reasoned diatribe.

Oh, and for the hundredth time or so, to your ilk, I'm strongly opposed to Hillary. You know that and persist in telling feeble fibs. Unlike YOU, I have enough sense to realize that if she is the nom, she's preferable to any of the pukes. I actually care about the SC and the environment.

Shouldn't you be happier off playing with your like minded little friends?

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. Cali

The Hillary people are all over the internet and their agenda is painfully obvious. Instead of defending them, if you really are opposed to her candidacy, prove it by actively supporting and endorsing another candidate. By giving in and accepting her as the inevitable candidate, you are validating their efforts. And if you really are "strongly opposed" to her, you have a strange way of showing that.

[cali]

18. I've given small amounts to Obama, Edwards and Kucinich

I don't have a candidate and I doubt I will unless Gore runs- and I'm fairly sure that won't happen.

But the fact is, I have a low tolerance for stupid, and a low tolerance for bullshit. And a low tolerance for fear mongering whether it comes from the right or the left. And when I see bullshit attacks, I'll speak out.

The reason you think my opposition to Hillary is strange- or should I be interpreting that as not real- is because you, Madame, are an absolutist, and frankly, I don't have a great deal of respect for that kind of perspective.

[seemslikeadream]

20. You gave money to Kucinich? And you don't think is serious about running??

:shrug:

[cali]

21. Because I like some of his ideas and I think it's important that

they're broadcast- and I mean that in the agricultural sense more than the TV sense. I hope some of his ideas are seeds that will grow.

It's not hard to figure out. And what's more, I think that's a perfectly good reason to run.

[seemslikeadream]

22. broadcast but you've never seen the debates?

Have you even bother to read them?

Here are all the transcripts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_presidential_debates,_2008

[cali]

23. Yes. I read them after you gave me that link.

But even if I hadn't, I wouldn't be unfamiliar with his ideas; I've read his website and press releases and I've become familiar with his positions over the years.

[seemslikeadream]

24. and you still don't think he's serious?

[cali]

25. I think he's serious about his policies. I think he's serious

about getting those ideas more widely disseminated. I think he's not seriously expecting to be nominated.

[G_j]

51. the reason is:

He can't really expect to be nominated if he keeps telling the truth.
If he was 'serious' he would lie like the rest of them (:sarcasm: ..sort of)

[cali]

65. If he was serious, he'd have a higher profile in Iowa

and NH and SC and Nevada.

[RoccoR5955]

39. Hillary will make a good President...

... A good REPUBLICAN president, as did her husband.

[jgraz]

69. Emotional? Yep. Overwrought? Perhaps. Dead right on the facts? You bet your ass.

Cali, instead of dismissing the guy and posting other people's comments, perhaps you could deal with the substance of his post. His opinion is shared by a large number of us here at DU, and he backs it up with facts. How does his post deserve your "piece of crap" designation?

[bonito]

7. Recommended, thanks!

[cali]

8. Is the standard really that low?

Guess so.

[Demeter]

9. I Know That! I've Known It All Along. She Just Assumed Nobody Did

and that nobody would call her on it. Bad assumptions, Madame Senator!

[Carolina]

48. EXACTLY

:hi:

[durrrty libby]

10. Save Bandwirth......Save America........Don't Post BullShit

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Only post articles that make Hillary look good

I guess if we repeat it over and over, the hypnotic effect will take over. :crazy:

[cali]

13. Hmm. Well, I oppose Hillary and I think

this diary is utter crap.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. To quote you:

"Bwahaha"

You don't oppose Hillary. You defend her. That's not opposition.

[cali]

19. I suggest you do a search

I've written several OPs just in the last couple of days, in opposition to Hillary.

And what I defend against is bullshit. Just because you as a full fledged member of the purity brigade, will accept anything negative about anyone you consider doesn't meet your purer and lefter than thou standards.

I live in the real world, where real hard choices and compromises are made. You, evidently don't.

[emilyg]

44. Perhaps cali has a brain and believes in being fair?

[jgraz]

70. I think cali has demonstrated both on many occasions

Which is why I expect he'll realize that simply calling the diary "crap" and the poster a "nut" is really not the way you engage people in a substantive dialog.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

40. If you really believed that you'd never be able to post anything here.

[Kazak]

17. That's the impression I get...

:shrug:

[bluedog]

27. Project Fillbuster? ron corvus...blog...

this article comes from the site Project Fillbuster..by Ron Corvus.........a Dennis Kucinich campaign site.........
http://www.roncorvus.com/


consider the source

[LWolf]

28. Obvious stuff to those with their eyes open

and their fingers out of their ears.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

29. In those days there was a different political climate?

before the days of global warming when everybody was full of 9/11 terror (it would have appeared weak not to support the war). I'm sure some regret short sightedness?

[FREEWILL56]

35. Is it weakness to stand up to bush

and his lies that Iraq in actuallity had nothing to do with 9-11? The weak ones went along with bush's charade and were only worrying about their own political careers and not the real issues it would seem. Kucinich is much stronger than you think as he didn't buy into it or go to protection mode for his own career. I can respect any that say they were wrong in their vote and it is another matter of if they could do it again (as many have), but from my prospective I see Hillary as the same as the opposing repugs with no remorse of their deeds or real American interest as representatives of the PEOPLE they are supposed to be speaking for. I am no hypocrite and will not vote for Hillary anymore than I would vote for any republicon. If Hillary becomes the nominee I will not vote for her cold hypocritical smug selfserving ass.

[oasis]

55. Not vote for the nominee? Perpare to spend your time in the DU Lounge

While the real Dems at DU go about the business of putting a Democrat in the White House.

[FREEWILL56]

64. I did not say I won't vote for the nominee.

I said, if Hillary is the nominee I won't vote for her. If you think she's already in, then think again as we can send somebody much better than bushlite I would certainly hope. Miss Giggles herself said that she is not Bill so if anybody thinks a vote for her is getting Bill into the white house again, think again as this is quite false and she promissed to send him off as a diplomat so he's out of her hair and can't influence or change her wrongdoings. If we dems can't do beter than her then I abstain from voting for president or possibly do a write-in and I have never done either before and have never gone against the democratic nominee before either. For that matter, I have never voted for a republicon and I'm not about to start doing so now.

[NotGivingUp]

30. Hillary hasn't brainwashed me. I KNOW she's a goddam liar....just like the rest of the imperialistic

assholes.

[Carolina]

49. EXACTLY

:hi:

[napi21]

33. I disagree with your premise.

I listened to Shrubs plea at the time. He was saying that when you enter negotiations, you must have the authority to back up your threats with action, or they are simply empty threats. He told EVERYBODY that he wanted to go to the US security council and request permission to force Iraq to give unfettered access to the inspectors to verify Sadaam's claim of not having WMD's, and needed to authority to threaten force if he refused. Even I knew that was the kind of authority a negotiator needs! I realize NOW I was foolish to believe that no American President would grossly misuse that authority, but THEN I believed it was the right thing to do.

I'm 64 years old, and I've NEVER seen any President do the arrogant, stupid, and illegal things Shrub has done, but you have to remember that he was only in office for a few months at the time, and hadn't really tipped his hand to show just how BAD he was.

I can't fault the Senators for voting to fund the war now either. If there was a way to ONLY fund the armored vehicles, the body armor, and the things necessary to keep as many soldiers as possible as possible, but defund the Blackwater guys and Halliburton, I'd be all for it, but I don't think there is. If there was a way to only fund what would benefit the safety of our soldiers WHILE they were being redeployed home, I'd be all for that too, but I don't think it's possible.

Shrub is the ONLY person who can end this mess right now and not do more harm to our soldiers than good, and since he doesn't listen to ANYONE, I don't see any end to this until HE'S GONE!

[gateley]

37. I bet NOBODY could foresee what has transpired in Iraq, regardless of "what

they knew" going in.

[Gonnuts]

38. Psst ...

Get real close to the scene, I have something to tell all of those that still think we have a government that is "for and by the people" ... WRONG! That horse left that barn a long time ago. Every so-called "front-runner" pay homage to the 1% of the wealthiest people on this planet that own our government, the media and nearly everything else that we need to sustain life.

Our elections are a farce. A show put on to give the ignorant masses the illusion they have some say. And if you want proof, it's in front of your eyes. The only two candidates that have been right about this stupid invasion and occupation are ignored, ridiculed and if it even looks like they are making head-way will be wind-up like Wellstone, Tillman, Ciara or Torres.

We want out of Iraq. Not only have they made no move to get out these so-called representatives of the people increased and prolonged the illegal occupation and now casually talk about staying there until at least 2013. Is that what we voted for?

The few brave that tried to expose the fraud this country has become have been murdered and to date no one has been held accountable for the genocide this Warrior Nation has caused.

Hillary? Please ... she's just playing her part and "we the people" are being duped yet again.

[spindoctor]

41. "I have constituents in Iraq, I can't let these kids go unprotected."

Said the guy from Illinois (whatshisname) on Real Time last week when asked about his funding vote. They still don't get it, or more likely, they still don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole.

Being the political slime she is, HRC will please as many potential voters as she can. It is all calculated. Unless DEMOCRATS take a stand and refuse to vote for candidates that supported the war in ANY way, she has nothing to lose and everything to gain. And we all know that us Democrats won't take that stand because winning the White House back is more important than winning our values back.

Isn't it?

[illinoisprogressive]

43. They claim they did not know to cover their guilty asses. All of them knew

[Carolina]

50. EXACTLY

:hi:

[Major Hogwash]

52. True that! She can't claim "plausible deniability" later on for her votes.

I wonder how many people live in New York that are secretly hoping she wins the Presidential race just so they can get a real liberal for a Senator in 2009.

Where did Hillary get all this warmongering posturing from in the first place?
Where did it come from?
This is unbeleivable.

[iheartobama]

53. Hillary

Power to the people!

[George II]

54. False

"Hillary" didn't give bush authorization to use "force at will", CONGRESS, comprised of a republican majority, passed the AUMF! And it was based on false information given to Congress and it was NOT, repeat NOT, an authorization to use force AT WILL!

Why must "democrats" continue to blame DEMOCRATS for what the bush administration does? All this does is strengthen the republicans and strengthen their prospects of retaining control of the White House. Look at the big picture, not simplistic personal opinions about one Democratic candidate.

[danhan]

58. Unfortunately

Unfortunately it was.

[Islander Expat]

61. HRC comes across to me as a complete con artist, I'm sorry, but she's insincere as can be...

And I'm pretty good at reading people, I hope Mr. Gore gets back with this party, otherwise we're sunk for good.

[judaspriestess]

63. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[Islander Expat]

66. Thank you very much, I've been getting my headline news here for a long time

I'm a former lurker.

[jeff30997]

62. Yeah yeah yeah!

My friend I'm very,VERY sorry to announce you that her Highness Clinton the Second

will be your next sovereign.Now let me put a gun to my head and

pull the trigger...Bang...That's it,nothing more ,nothing less.

WAKE UP !!! DAMN IT !!!

Ohhh...What the heck...I'm just a Canadian so all I have to fight is that

ridiculous thing...what's it called ? Oh! Harper!

OK! I admit it ! I'm hopeless damn it!Fascism is spreading everywere... :cry:

[BigBearJohn]

67. I've always wondered why the Clintons are so friendly with the Bushes. Now I know why.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

73. Ruling class lacks a basic sense of morality when sacrificing "other" people's children.

It's past time to end the Bush-Clinton cabal

[krj44]

74. don`t worry the

rethugs will expose that flaw in her arguement next year,i just hope that a rethug doesn`t win the presidency.we need to tip the court back and a whole host of things and it begins with the presidency.

[MethuenProgressive]

75. The only way the GOP beats Clinton in 08 is with help from Democrats.

I remember way back when when kos was on our side...

[cali]

76. That was NOT kos

It was simply a diary, and it got pretty trashed by many of the regular posters.

[King Coal]

77. Hillary is not a democrat, IMHO. She is just another cog in the machinery of destruction.

[cali]

79. Maybe, but you don't present a cogent argument

simply a silly blanket statement.

[King Coal]

80. I didn't say anything about a blanket. I was talking about ol' lady Clinton.

[moondust]

81. Questionable judgment.

Knowing that the Iraq War Resolution was not a declaration of war yet Bush and the neocons read it as a green light anyway, Hillary recently voted for the Kyl/Lieberman amendment which again is not a declaration of war but we don't know how Bush and the neocons may use it as such. She apparently didn't learn much from her IWR mistake.

All one ever really had to know was the nature of the neocons and that Bush and Cheney are joined at the hip with them. So why doesn't Hillary seem to know even that much?

[fightindonkey]

82. Blah, Blah, Blah, More Crying and Blaming That The Real People Responsible For The Sinking

of the country. Move on people, seriously.

[Maribelle]

83. My former Senator, the beloved Bob Graham said the senate did not have access to the info he knew.

And you cannot find another politician more honest than this great man.

And without divulging the secret information he was privileged to, he was clear about why they did not know, how Bush was withholding critical and important information, and suggested corruption on the part of Bush. I have post this many times here on DU.

What I Knew Before the Invasion

By Bob Graham

Sunday, November 20, 2005; Page B07

In the past week President Bush has twice attacked Democrats for being hypocrites on the Iraq war. "ore than 100 Democrats in the House and Senate, who had access to the same intelligence, voted to support removing Saddam Hussein from power," he said.

The president's attacks are outrageous. Yes, more than 100 Democrats voted to authorize him to take the nation to war. Most of them, though, like their Republican colleagues, did so in the legitimate belief that the president and his administration were truthful in their statements that Saddam Hussein was a gathering menace -- that if Hussein was not disarmed, the smoking gun would become a mushroom cloud.

The president has undermined trust. No longer will the members of Congress be entitled to accept his veracity. Caveat emptor has become the word. Every member of Congress is on his or her own to determine the truth.

more ...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/18/AR2005111802397.html