Is there anyone else here who doesn't vote?

[TomInTib]

Last evening, I replied on some thread that I do not vote.

And, Ladies and Gentlemen, I caught nine kinds of Hell (including being called "incredibly freaking stupid" {it is amazing how brave people can be when they are ducking behind a monitor}). Even got put on someone's "Ignore" list merely because I do not care to vote.

So I am coming out of the closet.

I come from Texas, a State that bars people such as myself from voting. That was never a big deal.

But now I live in Marin County, California.

And I do not even know who my Congressperson is, nor do I care.

I also live under an assumed name. Does that make me a less valid American?

Is it so important to march in lockstep and do just what everyone else does merely because they are doing the same thing that everyone else is doing?

I certainly hope not.

Just being me is alright with me.

[Book Lover]

1. So you can't vote in CA either?

[TomInTib]

6. I don't know.

Wouldn't make any difference.

The only politics I am interested in are those of the really Bad Guys (Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Bush, etc.).

I am clueless about the rest of it.

[Book Lover]

7. Well, I have to confess I am a little surprised

I am not here to chastise you, but I am a little surprised that someone so involved with the cultural life of your town doesn't take an interest in its political life - at least for mayor or town council.

[TomInTib]

10. I hate meetings and commitees and schedules.

I fly solo.

The things I do, I do on my own.

Our mayor and councilmen are all drinking buddies of mine, but their jobs are boring as hell.

[AndyA]

2. Voting goes to the very core of what being an American is all about.

Why allow others to control your destiny for you?

It sounds as if there's a legal reason why you cannot vote, and if that's the case you might have made a mistake at some point and lost the ability to vote because of it.

If this is not the case, you should reconsider taking control of your own destiny. It may not always head in the direction you want it to, but at least you tried to guide it.

[blondeatlast]

3. Why are you at DU? I would not think this place would offer anything to the apathetic.

:shrug:

[TomInTib]

9. I am here because of the people here.

Not everyone here is ferally political.

There are Musicians, Poets, Writers, Caregivers, Veterans, Breast Cancer Survivors, Cooks, all kinds of people.

Also, this is the only website on which I have figured out how to post.

And I am far from apathetic.

[blondeatlast]

14. And you just LOVE the attention, don't you? nt

[WinkyDink]

26. "Also, this is the only website on which I have figured out how to post."

Bwahahaha! For that alone, you're okay by me!

[renie408]

29. Generally, you write in the box provided and hit "submit post" ..

on really sneaky sites, it might just say, "Post" or even (and I know this can be confusing) "Reply".

[PeaceNikki]

4. I vote because it's my civic duty... and I care what happens around me.

[porphyrian]

5. Almost. I vote, but I live in Florida, so it doesn't count. - n/t

[L0oniX]

62. So very true

It's a very sad pathetic situation here in Floridoh

[PDJane]

8. I assume that you are a felon.

work at becoming involved, because everything you do hinges on politics in your district and nationally......even how much you're paid.

That thing about not being able to vote if you're a felon is a holdover from the Jim Crow era, and it was meant to stop blacks from voting.

By the way, if you're in Canada, you don't lose your right to vote. If you're a citizen, you can vote...even from jail.

[TomInTib]

13. I am very involved.

Tiburon Art Festival, Wine Festival, Film Festival, Wooden Boat Show, Economic Development Council, Wine Cruises,Friday Nights on Main, pretty much every civic event in town.

And yeah, I am a felon (multiple).

So I cannot even get into Canada to vote from jail.

[zabet]

71. I vote

even though I am a convicted felon. Involves
international and something like traffic king.
All it took for me to get my right to vote back
after 'paying my debt to society' was a letter to
(at the time) Janet Reno. A letter explaining my
desire to have that right re-instated since I had paid
my debt to society, that I had worked a 'public' job,
etc. etc. It took about 2 months and I got a very
nice reply and my voting rights re-instated.

[Fredda Weinberg]

11. Nah, you're still part of the process

It's hard when you internalize the values of others ... but harder to stand for your own. I bid you peace.

I don't know if this'll matter to other DUers, but when we did our f2f you were a delightful evening companion. No one should scold you.

[TomInTib]

16. Thank you Fredda. I will never forget that evening.

But you should've hung around with me and those two crazy guys (or was it those two guys and the crazy guy from Tiburon?).

I believe my head still hurts.

Keep smilin', Fredda.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cameron27]

15. If you can't vote, then that's something you can't help,

but if you choose not to vote even if you could...I'm at a loss for words.

[NC_Nurse]

17. Sounds like you can't vote anyway.

If you live under an assumed name, I would think it would be hard to vote.
But then again, I've never tried it.

Sometimes I wonder if voting really matters. Seems like most stuff is out of the control of the
average citizens and that most of the politicians have been bought or are constrained by "money
interests". I still do it, but i may give it up eventually if things keep going like they have....
Let's just say, I don't feel MY interests are being represented, even by the people i choose to vote for.

[cali]

19. I think it depends on where you live.

It really matters where I live. We have a viable Progressive party that holds seats in the statehouse. We have Instant run-off voting in our largest city. We have a socialist U.S. Senator.

[NC_Nurse]

21. You must live in Vermont.

Cool.
I live in a red state, so you do have a point. Remember Jesse Helms? Sigh....

[SDuderstadt]

61. So....

Shouldn't your name be Vermonti instead of Cali?

[Cerridwen]

18. And you'll probably get another "nine kinds of Hell" from this post, too.

Not from me, though.

I'm ambivalent about voting. I've worked in politics, up close and personal. Since that time, I've had a difficult time convincing myself my vote is worth anything other than putting into office someone who will promptly ignore me for "greener", make that "greenback" pastures; presuming my vote is even counted.

Some years back I read a book (the name of which I forget) in which the author made a very convincing case that if our votes in fact had any power, we would not have been given the vote in the first place. It's more a pacifier as we live in the illusion of having input into the "process" of governing.

I don't "not" vote; but I sometimes wonder if it's worth the gas money. Now I live somewhere with mail-in voting so I guess it's no skin off my nose. But I'm still not convinced it's anything more than an illusion.

Oh, and I grew up during a time when we had such quaint ideas like returning citizenship to those who had "paid their debt to society" rather than today's punitive nightmare of making some pay and pay and pay and pay "'till death" they are finished. At which point in time their descendants must pay and pay and pay.

[unpossibles]

20. that's your choice (maybe - if not I apologize)

but you should also know that voting in all of the races, and making as educated of a decision as you possibly can, does influence the really bad guys like Nixon and Bush.

Sadly, I can understand it a little as far as the frustration of never being represented goes, but I think you should try to get back involved if you can.

The way I look at it: not voting does not remove the ones we complain about from power. True, voting may not either, but at least we tried. I'd personally feel like crap if I watched someone like Bush highjack the country and did nothing to try to stop it.

[Annces]

22. It is a basic responsibility

if you want to help affect democracy positively.

[EFerrari]

23. I believe your Congress critter is Lynne Woolsey

and, I'll trade ya!

[TahitiNut]

24. Well ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/10/16_voting.html

[Raine]

25. I vote but

I have mixed feelings about it. I know you live in Tiburon up in No.Cal where it's really blue, it's the opposite with me. I live in a burb of Los Angeles County that is really red and in both cases basically our votes aren't needed cause they don't change things. In local elections here it's always a bunch of crooks and I won't legitimize them by even bothering to vote. I can't hold my nose that tight. x( I vote in primaries and in the general but even with that I often wonder why I did. In the primary it's just about always decided before I get the chance and my candidate has long dropped out. In the general the election is usually stolen. I still will vote when I can but you won't get grief from me about your not voting.

[divinecommands]

27. I don't vote...

But that's because it would be irrational for me to vote. And yes, it would be a bad thing if everyone thought the way I did -- but they don't!

And hey, voting only encourages the politicians... do you want to encourage the politicians??

[tkmorris]

32. Why would it be irrational?

[divinecommands]

36. The explanation

Well...

I'm not going to act unless it will make a difference to the outcome. In the case of voting, right now, it doesn't. Technically, my individual vote is most likely to change the outcome of the election if the results are close. But now we know that in national elections even that doesn't hold true, since the courts will get involved in the case of a close election.

There are other reasons to vote: duty, to express one's feelings, etc. They just don't apply to me. I'm interested in making a difference to the outcome.

[pitohui]

28. tom, most people on a democratic activist board are, yeah, voters

i have to admit i'm a little surprised you're not/can't

if you're living under an assumed name and it's a matter of your security/safety, i understand, but if there is some way you can change your status and get out there and vote i would hope you'd consider it

we do what we can and if you can't you can't...not asking you to endanger yourself

[renie408]

30. Yeah. n/t

[renie408]

31. The guys who allow the 'really bad' guys to get really bad...

are the ones you can't be bothered to care about.

I don't really care whether you vote or not. Just don't make excuses. You don't vote because you can't be bothered. I find it odd that you can be bothered to post better than 1000 posts on a political message board when you can't get out and decide who is running your local government and the national government once a year.

[EFerrari]

34. Do you enjoy putting words in other posters' mouths

or can you just not help yourself?

[TahitiNut]

37. It's a DU "thing" I think.

:rofl:

All the Mighty Kreskin's of DU ... mind-reading run amok. Folks whos imaginations aren't sufficient to envision a rational and realistic basis for someone's behavior often feed their fragile, self-rightous egos with a projection of base motives.

[EFerrari]

39. Are you lookin' at me?

:rofl:

[TahitiNut]

42. Moi?

Heaven forbid! :rofl:

[cgrindley]

33. I can't vote either... I'm a permanent resident not a citizen (nt)

[EFerrari]

35. I bet there are a lot of people on this board who don't vote

without any back story at all and who just don't admit it -- because we're so herded into korrect positions. Yeah, we have our authoritarians, too.

[havocmom]

38. Indeed, many very active liberals here don't/ can't vote

And many supposed liberals here sure want everyone marching along but their rules.

It friggin boggles the mind.

As to OP: that he doesn't vote doesn't bother me. That he brings good perspective to many issues and some damned good info most of us would have no other means to dig up, well, personally, I have found THAT to be most helpful when I am on something and the pieces still miss...

There are LOTS of people who vote and probably shouldn't because they vote what they are told and don't do any critical thinking on their own. THOSE people are much more of a problem than an informed chap who helps others keep up on some background info that really does help complete some pictures of power.

I'll keep Tom on my DU Friends list. My ignore list is full of authoritarian greenies who just don't want political solutions, they want it 100% their way and they want it yesterday. Then there are the Nadir enablers... I looked. Just no room for a gentleman like Tom on my ignore list.

[TahitiNut]

41. Yeah. I mean. Look at it this way.

He doesn't vote for Ralph.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[havocmom]

44. Every little bit helps

Hey, if the man has legal problems, I see no point in ragging on him about it. If people don't like the legal issue, they could work to change some laws.

Nah, so much easier to rag on the man and put him on ignore. Yeah, that'll show him.

What the hell are they spraying in the air these days?

[EFerrari]

45. Tom is a huge community guy and those respondents

need to go find a deprogrammer. I guess after seven years of BushCo, we're contaminated or something.

[TahitiNut]

58. I'll take Tom's six any day.

And I'm probably the foremost proponent of voting at DU. :shrug:

[EFerrari]

60. That's a great journal entry, TN.

:toast:

Maybe one has to be older than dirt to understand that there is always more than one solution to any problem. :shrug:

[pitohui]

40. well if you can, you need to change that

i'm not gonna yell at tom because it sounds like there is a reason he's living under an assumed name and i'm not asking someone to put himself in prison to vote

however, people who are not voting because "it's too much trouble," need to wake up and start taking the trouble

it's one thing if we all do our part and they steal it and we're fucked, okay, we're justified in what we do next, but if we don't even do our part, then how can we cry about election fraud or anything else? we have no standing if we don't do this one small thing

[EFerrari]

43. I come down on the side of respecting other peoples' choices.

I've never found browbeating to be effective although I admit I resort to it at times and that's on me.

We can do our part via our own choices. The rest is a matter of community -- and browbeating isn't a big community builder. Pink Tiaras, puppets, impeachment carrols -- have you seen the great list emlev posted from the Einstein Institute?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2001217

:party:

[pitohui]

64. if you think my posts are browbeating you need to read for comprehension

this is a site to among other things GOTV for democratic candidates

it's about the vote, a lot of people have died or gone to jail for us to get that vote, i'm not browbeating, i'm not saying he should put himself in jeopardy to vote if he's in hiding under an assumed name, but CRAP

most of us are not hiding under an assumed name and if we do nothing else, we can cast a fucking vote

if they steal it, we go on from there, and we have cause for complaint

but if we don't value it anyway, how can we complain when they steal it?

i thought you were a big supporter of andy stephenson and now suddenly it's no big deal if folks don't vote? hello?????

ok, on second thought, i guess i am grumpy, but i can't browbeat too much, it's the internet, you can always ignore me if i'm that useless

[EFerrari]

65. Nowhere did I imply you were browbeating anyone.

And I read for a living, thanks.

[Rhythm and Blue]

47. There are a lot of people on this board who are stupid, then.

Not voting because you don't want to be conformist is perhaps the most idiotic idea I have ever seen.

[EFerrari]

48. Then, blame yourself because that's your idea.

Don't let me get between you and yourself.

[Rhythm and Blue]

50. I'm sorry, but

"we're all being herded into korrect positions" by "the authoritarians" is the weakest defense of nonvoters I've ever seen.

[EFerrari]

51. Because you are misreading. I was talking about our discourse

not about our individual choices.

[Rhythm and Blue]

53. So we're good,

as long as you're not attempting to defend nonvoters.

[EFerrari]

55. I don't need to be good with you.

And I reserve the right to my own opinions, my own choices and my own friends.

Is that okay with you, progressive?

[Rhythm and Blue]

46. This is a board for people who support Democratic candidates.

If you do not, I am somewhat confused as to why you are here.

[EFerrari]

49. Yes, you are confused. There are many ways to support

Democratic candidates.

Carry on.

[Rhythm and Blue]

52. The most crucial of which is actually getting off your ass and voting for them.

Not voting--or voting for anyone but the Dem in a contested election--while "supporting" them in other ways is the political version of slapping a "support our troops" sticker on your SUV and thinking you're good.

[EFerrari]

54. No, that's your inflated opinion. n/t

[Poll_Blind]

56. I do not believe in revoking voting rights of felons. If anything, I belive...

...that it is one of the most disenfranchising laws ever passed.

  Having said that, I recall it may be in The Constitution. If that's the case, The Constitution could use some updating. I'm not referring directly to whatever crimes you were convicted of but we have so many people in jail (and out) who were convicted of marijuana felonies it's just bullshit.

  I wonder if there was ever a tabulation of how many Americans could actually, legally, vote. We hear about the chronically low voter turnouts but I don't believe that those percentages take into account those removed for legal reasons such as yours.

  I don't believe that voting rights should be removed because of conviction of any crime.

PB

[TahitiNut]

59. It's no accident that the South is continually in dire need of prison reform.

:shrug: Now, the whole country is.

[earth mom]

57. It's cool-even if you can't vote, you can still care about this country and be a voice. nt

[pitohui]

63. big difference between "can't" and "doesn't" though

his subject title is misleading, apparently he can't vote rather than doesn't vote

those who can but "dassn't" well, that's another story, and they need to wake up

if our vote is stolen, that's one thing, but you don't even have grounds for complaint if you never get up on your hind legs to begin with

[EFerrari]

68. If through conversation I get 10 other people active

and decide not to vote for private reasons, I have made a net contribution.

And then, there's that whole First Amendment thing that has always irritated authoritarians.

[TomInTib]

69. Oh, I "can"

but I don't.

I couldn't vote in Texas, but I can in California.

Your vote doesn't mean a goddamned thing to anyone but yourself.

Money is what puts the candidate on the ballot (unless you are talking about someone on the local planning board or sanitary board).

I come from a Texas Family who actually makes things happen.

Individual votes are a sop to EveryMan to make him/her feel as if they really have a voice.

Sorry to have to put it so bluntly, pitohui, but you have been hanging on this thread and you know I think the World of you.

But, by all means, I appreciate you doing your part.

I prefer to spend my energy in my immediate circumstance, my Town.

[Raejeanowl]

66. Dogpile on the Wabbit

I was a disaffected voter once, a registered and deliberate non-voter, in some sort of apathy or protest or laziness. Can't decide in retrospect.

Now I'm what they call a "super-voter." Give me the freakin' blue ribbon; I'm doing my civic duty.

Neither stance has thoroughly convinced me that my individual vote makes a greater difference than the type of groundswell, grass-roots activity represented by participation in DU, or talking with a group of friends at the local saloon, supermarket, senior center or picking up that placard for a march, or writing a letter. While I've "helped elect" a few, I've also seen my time and care getting to know the candidates and making a semi-intelligent choice in all levels of government, seemingly wasted again and again. Witness 2000, most heartbreaking national fraud of all.

Sounds like you have a compelling reason to not enter into that part of the process. Raises questions others mercifully aren't asking. But whatever your reasons, the choice to vote or not vote is NOT the sole prerogative or qualification of citizenship. Do I smell some kind of self-righteous elitism in the air?

I'd be more interested in finding out how many of the good DUers trashing you have ever - e gads -voted Republican in the generals. Will that get you booted out, called stupid? If so, ignore me too, because I've done it MORE THAN ONCE when the only candidate with brain cells happened to belong to the wrong party.

See you 'round the dustbins!

[Canuckistanian]

67. As long as you realize the potential consequences

A few areas in Florida in 2000 were lost by only a relatively small number of votes.

I know, bad example, but the point is, it created enough of an illusion of a close race that not many questioned the shenanigans behind them.

And you don't have to be reminded of the ultimate consequence.

[Xenotime]

70. I only vote if I know my issue is going to win..

Otherwise, what's the point? The voter doesn't control the Presidental elections so those are worthless too.