If (when?) we go to war with Iran - WWII and rationing - some thoughts

[Cerridwen]

(note: broad brush used for brevity)

Most of us here have heard stories from family and friends about and have studied in school, what WWII America 'looked' like. Rationing boards, a PR campaign to encourage women to go to work in the factories to support the war effort, PR campaigns to sell "War Bonds", shortages of supplies on the homefront, the 'internment' of those of Japanese heritage and others, amped up patriotism "It is a just war, an honorable war", "Loose lips sink ships", mocking our enemies as inhuman or subhuman, blackout curtains, air raid drills and air raid wardens, coming together, as Americans, and sacrificing for America to win the war. (One of those stories is at this link).

We were an agrarian society, we were a unified people, we believed in our leaders and trusted their competency to keep us secure and safe, we had the skills and materials to make our own clothes, grow our own food. We did not yet rely too heavily on automobiles to get around, there weren't such things as credit cards, cell phones, the internet, personal computers, blow dryers, food processors, high definition tv, point-of-sale terminals and on and on. We saved and bought what we needed or we didn't buy it. Walk-in closets were for the rich. One income could support an entire family. We had vegetable gardens and "Hemp for Victory" was a slogan to encourage farmers to grow hemp to provide rope much needed in the war effort. We came together with our collective "American Spirit" and used our "Good old-fashioned American ingenuity" to "keep the homefires burning" for when our men and women returned from the war. We were The United States of America.

Fast forward to 21st century America.

We are a divided nation. We do not trust nor believe in our leaders. Few of us grow our own food or know how to make our own clothes. A large portion of us rely heavily on cars and even our public transportation relies heavily on gas. Many have debt. Few own their things outright. Two incomes may support an entire family if we're lucky. We rely heavily on computers to communicate and to make purchases and to access our money. Many rely heavily on the internet for information or work, tv for information and entertainment, blow dryers, hot water heaters, electric/gas stoves, washers and dryers, store-bought clothes and shoes; imports from China, India, Pakistan, Mexico...

If we had to start rationing fuel and electricity and water, many of us would eat a lot of burnt meals before we learned to cook on a wood fire, if we could find the wood and some food. We'd take many a cold bath before we found something around the house large enough to heat bathwater in. We'd have to learn to wear our clothes a few days in a row once the walk-in closet had been gone through. We'd lose touch with many of our friends without the internet and cell phones. News and entertainment 'junkies' would be in for some serious withdrawal symptoms. No more electronic transfers of money or direct deposit of paychecks.

What do you think WWIII rationing will 'look' like? What happens if they invade us back?

Just some rambling thoughts and what-ifs as the drums of war are pounding in the background.

edit: typo

[endarkenment]

1. We only pick on nations we can beat up without a challenge.

Iran's military is not up to the fight. Not nearly. This will not be WWIII. It will, unfortunately, be another mission accomplished triumph, followed by another disastrous post-mission disaster. Ever since we knocked off Grenada we have been careful to only pick fights with nations we can beat up without having the folks at home get all itchy.

[jwirr]

4. Exactly, for a good read on this issue try "After the Empire" by

Emanuel Todd. I found wisdom and comfort in this book.

[damntexdem]

12. There is the issue of the vulnerability of U.S. carriers in the Persian Gulf.

One or more might be hit, even sunk. That would be a dramatic turn of events in itself.

[BOSSHOG]

2. Excellent WWII rationing display at the

National WWII Museum in New Orleans. Very educational.

http://www.ddaymuseum.org/

I'm not sure what it might "look" like but I can guarantee that if there is any sacrificing to be done, "conservatives" will whine their fool heads off about it.

[Cerridwen]

6. Cool site!

Thanks. I've bookmarked for further reading. :D

"I'm not sure what it might "look" like but I can guarantee that if there is any sacrificing to be done, "conservatives" will whine their fool heads off about it."

I wonder if we'd come together to get through the hard times or if our division is now permanent and deep.

[BOSSHOG]

7. Quite an outstanding undertaking

It will soon take up a city block with plans for future growth. If you come, plan on spending a lot of time and bring hankies.

[Cerridwen]

10. Hankies?!,

Sponges, more like. I'm one of those sentimental ding-dongs that cries at commercials, fer cryin' out loud. :D

Thanks for the information. I hope I'll have a chance to visit. You'll know me if you see me. I'll be the one with the sponges. LOL

[Turbineguy]

3. Well..... I would think those

rationing books would come in a variety of colors. From say, "Chocolate City" black, to the "Fill up your Hummer anytime" platinum.

[napi21]

5. I was a very little kid back then, but I remember bits and pieces of

what was going on. Today's Americans couldn't deal with it!

I stll find myself cooking from scratch, sewing many of my own things, and asking myself "Do you REALLY NEED that?" when I find something on a great sale. Many times I walk away. My kids, my neighbors, and most of my realatives do not, and probably cannot do any of that!

If you gave people today a book of ration stamps, each good for a limited qty of some food product, or gas ration stamps, we'd all drown in tear water!!!!!

[Cerridwen]

8. It would be an interesting phenomenon.

And I agree with you that "today's Americans couldn't deal with it!" At least at first. I think after a time, we'd figure it out. I just wonder how long it would take and how many would suffer before we got there.

I also wonder if a whole lot of people would wind up homeless while there were thousands of empty buildings. Landlords and mortgage companies kicking out people with no one to replace them; people unable to afford to pay rent or mortgage payments living on the streets.

Geez, I'm morbid today.

[asjr]

9. I remember also. There were

ration books for shoes! I remember Mother taking me to buy a new pair. My Uncle Bill who had just been drafted went with us. I became so angry that she was buying me "boy shoes" (Oxfords) I tore my uncle's hat off his head and stomped all over it. I really regret that. Mother saved grease and tin cans for collection "for the war." It was so different from what we have today. I sometimes start getting nostalgic for "the good old days of WW2."

[Cerridwen]

13. You've reminded me of some things from my family history.

My mom, born 1937, would buy me one pair of shoes each school year. "Saddle shoes." Remember those? Hard leather guaranteed to blister every inch of skin it touched, but which lasted through the year and beyond.

My grandparents always saved grease for cooking, never bought anything on credit. My grandfather built the addition to their house, including electrical. He had a shed out back with all his tools; with baby food jars to hold the bitty stuff (after 5 kids, they had plenty of baby food jars). He fell off the danged thing while doing some repairs when he was 84. They lived in the same house they bought when they first married, until the day they died. They rarely threw out anything. My mom has a couple of goofed up fingers from running them through a mangle. I remember my grandparents had a washing machine with a ringer on top. The sewing machine had peddles.

I wonder how much of what they did and how they did it was because of WWII?

Thanks for the reminder.

edit: spelling/grammar

[napi21]

14. Not only saving things, but a completely different lifestyle.

I know we NEVER went to a reataurant...EVER! There were no McDonalds or any fast food places, and everyone I knew was happy to just have enough food to feed the family.

How many restaurants today, would just close? How about movie theaters, Blockbuster, nexflix, car washes, hotels, motels, airlines.....

The list of "extras" we all enjoy now is endless, and the unemployment rate would be horendous!

[Cerridwen]

15. Wow! Yeah, I'd stayed closer to home in my mental

musings.

I remember when going to a restaurant was a treat. Good points.

[damntexdem]

11. There'll be no need to cook food over a wood fire --

you'll be able to cook it over the glowing remnants of your own body.

[Done]

16. 20% of the world's oil supply is gone.

Economic catastrophe. Who knows what happens next; the situation spins out of control as desperate world leaders fear the wrath of their own people.

:nuke:

Will China stay on the sidelines? What about Chinese leverage over the US economy?

[demnan]

17. This was a very interesting post

I think back on my mother as she must have been during this time. A young war bride, she moved back with her parents and went to work at Alexandria, VA's Torpedo Factory. These young war brides broke production records made torpedos for the Navy while their husbandswent to war, like my father who went to Guatal Canal as Captain of a trucking unit for the Army. My mother's father was the plumbing inspector for the city of Alexandria, so he had a relatively good job during the Depression and beyond. The depression had devestated so many people, I think, that they were used to being without things. My grandfather wouldn't have thought twice about doing without, he was born into poverty and had left home young as the eldest of 13 children in Binghamton, NY and dropped out of the 9th grade to join the circus. He lived hand to mouth for a few years till he went to New York City to study in the technical school for plumbers.

When I think about my parents and my grandparents I wonder if I would have had the strength to live through what they lived through.

[asjr]

19. You would have done very well. That was

the way it was. There really was a "united states" then. One of the most amazing things I remember was that no one really grumbled. Every one knew what had to be done.

[blues90]

18. If we had WW III today

Many who have the life of the rich would fall away first .

You left out the amount of people living in this country now compared to WW II .

It would certainly be a huge disaster for many , I suppose the forests would be stripped of wood and we would be fighting in the streets for what little food would be left and living in abandoned buildings .

[happyslug]

20. 90% Tax Rates, Bus service cut back to StreetCar lines, etc

THe 90% tax rate was the incremental rate, i.e. most people earned way less than what was taxed at 90%. Most people who did receive Income that was taxed at the 90% rate, the source of Income tended to be Capital Gains, which were taxed only at 50% of the Gain (in effect a 45% tax rate increase of 90%, but the purpose of the tax rate was to encourage keeping the money invested for as long as it was invested it was NOT taxed).

Streetcars had they best years during WWII (Despite New York City's policy started in 1935 to replace Streetcars with buses, more to please Auto Drivers who where complaining about Streetcars slowing down traffic then the claim buses were better than Streetcars at the time period). The older interurban lines had gone bankrupt in the 1920s, the smaller towns had eliminated them in the 1930s, but in Urban areas Streetcars hauled more people cheaper and faster till the combination of very cheap gasoline in the 1950s, a need to rebuild the Streetcar lines during the same period and a hatred of Streetcars for tying up traffic, killed the Streetcars in the 1950s).

Anyway, during WWII, the streetcar lines were forbidden to convert to Buses and Buses were ORDERED to carry passengers to Streetcars if possible (In minimize oil usage by cutting back bus usage). Even the milk man was affected, many converted back to horses from Trucks during WWII. The horse were still available for most Milkmen had used horses till the late 1930s. A well trained horse pulling a wagon could continue to move and not hit anything as the milkman ran from one house to the next. This ability made horses competitive on routes where most people received fresh milk. As people purchased Refrigerators more and more people STOP having fresh milk developed daily, so routes became longer and longer. Combined with the drop in prices of oil in the 1930s, you had the start of the end of the Milkman, who to survived first went to trucks to haul more milk and then bankruptcy in the 1960s.

Anyway back to WWII. Most people did NOT have cars before WWII, they walked or even biked (When not taking public transportation). Horse were NOT uncommon (But becoming rarer as horses were replaced by trucks, for trucks did hot leave manure in the streets, 1954 is generally given when Automobiles entered a "replacement" stage in development, prior to 1954 most people were buying new to them cars as opposed to replacing a car, since 1954 most people are buying replacements for cars they are driving in the US)). My Father remembers taking an old interurban Streetcar down to Washington PA from Pittsburgh PA to go to the Meadow-lands Racetrack (Which the Streetcar line went right by). Such travel was quite common during that time period.

People went by train, Streetcar or even foot traffic. Automobile traffic was increasing, but less than half the population has access to a car (Other than a Cab). Now, the people with Cars tended to be wealthier people (i.e. Upper middle class as opposed to Working class) but a sizable segment of the population (Doctors, Lawyers, middle management etc as opposed to people who did manual labor or factory work). This was true in RURAL areas as while as Urban Areas (People in Rural Areas tend to get around by walking, horses were to much maintenance but bicycles were surprising common, through more and more rural people had cars and in larger numbers then Urban people of the same time period).

Also remember other factors, the US Army in WWII was the first Army that had more high school graduates then non-high school graduates. More Recruits were from Urban Areas than Rural areas (Both of these were OPPOSITE of the Situation in WWI, where more people in the Army had NO high School AND were from Rural Areas, which reflects that fact that for the first time in the 1920 Census that you more people living in Urban Areas than Rural Areas). Soccer had been the second or third most popular sport in the US before WWII, but was replaced by Football after WWII (Football was tied in with High School, Soccer was like Baseball tied in with the community independent of the Schools). The age of First Marriage had been falling since 1900 (and would continue to fall to the mid-1960s when it would start to raise again, reaching the levels of 1900 sometime in the late 1990s). Immigration has for all practical purposes stopped just before WWI and except for the 1919-1921 period NEVER return to pre-WWI levels till the 1980s (There was an uptick in the years right after WWII, but did not last for more then 2-3 years). On top of this was the fact that in 1945 2/3 of the world oil production was in the US as was 1/2 of the world's GNP (With thE Former Soviet Union the US main Competitor when in came to oil and the United Kingdom second in GNP but not that much ahead of the Soviet Union). The US was suffering from a huge trade imbalance IN FAVOR OF THE US (The US was exporting much more than the US was importing).

My point here time changed between WWI and WWII and Between WWII and Vietnam and between Vietnam and today (Each period about 20 years, with the difference between Vietnam and today being the longest time period). During WWII the main reason for most of the rationing was to keep cost down for the Government (For example the 35 mph speed limit was to minimize not only gasoline usage but tire usage so that the US Government would not have to pay outlandish amounts for Oil and Rubber, both of which were in short supply do to the rapid increase in Demand both by the US Government and our WesterN Allies). Other Items rationed were for the same reason, to keep prices low for the Government. A secondary affect was that if someone used less then what was rationed for them, they felt they were doing they part in helping the troops by NOT wasting valuable items needed for the War Effort.