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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 10:44 AM
Original message
An Inconvenient Truth: Errors or "Errors"


<snip>
Unfortunately a gaggle of useless journalists have misreported this decision as one that AIT contained nine scientific errors.

<snip>
If you noticed the quotation marks around 'error' then you are more observant than all of the journalists I listed above. Burton is not saying that there are errors, he is just referring to the things that Downes alleged were errors. Burton puts quote marks around 'error' 17 more times in his judgement. Notice also the emphasised part -- Burton is not even trying to decide whether they are errors or not. This too seems to have escaped the journalists' attention. (And yes, that was Bob Carter mentioned there.)

So what is Burton assessing in his judgement? Well, s407 says that where political issues are involved there should be "a balanced presentation of opposing views" so Burton states that the government should make it clear when "there is a view to the contrary, i.e. (at least) the mainstream view". Burton calls these "errors or departures from the mainstream".

So contrary to all the reporters' claims Burton did not find that there were 9 scientific errors in AIT, but that there were nine points that might be errors or where differing views should be presented for balance.


Please read the rest for an excellent breakdown of the 9 "Errors" and clarifications.

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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm self-kicking this because these 9 "Errors" will be all over the t.v. today
you are welcome to help me email this to major news outlets!
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. It sure will...
Despite the fact that the Nobel committee is comprised of many well-regarded scientists who spend a very long time doing research.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. ttt nt
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. thanks.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. john roerts was hammering this on cnn this morning
asshole
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. Here are the nine "errors" lets see what we can figure out about them
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. #1
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2007/10/an_error_is_not_the_same_thing.php

The IPCC report does say that the ice sheets will melt if warming is sustained over millennia, but does not rule out it happening sooner:

Recent satellite and in situ observations of ice streams behind disintegrating ice shelves highlight some rapid reactions of ice sheet systems. This raises new concern about the overall stability of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, the collapse of which would trigger another five to six metres of sea level rise. While these streams appear buttressed by the shelves in front of them, it is currently unknown whether a reduction or failure of this buttressing of relatively limited areas of the ice sheet could actually trigger a widespread discharge of many ice streams and hence a destabilisation of the entire West Antarctic Ice Sheet. Ice sheet models are only beginning to capture such small-scale dynamical processes that involve complicated interactions with the glacier bed and the ocean at the perimeter of the ice sheet. Therefore, no quantitative information is available from the current generation of ice sheet models as to the likelihood or timing of such an event.

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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. #2
Burton:

In scene 20, Mr Gore states "that's why the citizens of these Pacific nations have all had to evacuate to New Zealand". There is no evidence of any such evacuation having yet happened.

Yes there is.

Seeing themselves as climate refuges some Tuvalans are already leaving their islands, moving their communities to higher ground in a new land. ... Fala and Suamalie, along with international environmental activists, argue that Tuvaluans and others in a similar predicament should be treated like refugees and given immigration rights and other refugee benefits. This tiny nation was among the first on the globe to sound the alarm, trekking from forum to forum to try to get the world to listen. New Zealand did agree to take 75 Tuvaluans a year as part of its Pacific Access Category, an agreement made in 2001.

Gore's statement is badly worded, since it could be understood to to be saying that entire countries have been evacuated rather than some of the residents.

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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. #3
Burton:

In scene 17 he says, "One of the ones they are most worried about where they have spent a lot of time studying the problem is the North Atlantic, where the Gulf Stream comes up and meets the cold wind coming off the Arctic over Greenland and evaporates the heat out of the Gulf Stream and the stream is carried over to western Europe by the prevailing winds and the earth's rotation ... they call it the Ocean Conveyor ... At the end of the last ice age ... that pump shut off and the heat transfer stopped and Europe went back into an ice age for another 900 or 1000 years. Of course that's not going to happen again, because glaciers of North America are not there. Is there any big chunk of ice anywhere near there? Oh yeah ". According to the IPCC, it is very unlikely that the Ocean Conveyor (known technically as the Meridional Overturning Circulation or thermohaline circulation) will shut down in the future, though it is considered likely that thermohaline circulation may slow down.

The IPCC says that by "very unlikely", they mean a 5-10% chance of it happening. Since the consequences would be very bad, I think Gore is justified in saying that it is worrying, though it would have been better if he had said that it was a possible rather probable result of continued warming.

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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. #4
Burton:

In scenes 8 and 9, Mr Gore shows two graphs relating to a period of 650,000 years, one showing rise in CO2 and one showing rise in temperature, and asserts (by ridiculing the opposite view) that they show an exact fit. Although there is general scientific agreement that there is a connection, the two graphs do not establish what Mr Gore asserts.

Burton is wrong here. Gore does not assert that there is an exact fit, but rather that:

The relationship is very complicated. But there is one relationship that is more powerful than all the others and it is this. When there is more carbon dioxide, the temperature gets warmer, because it traps more heat from the sun inside

And that does reflect the scientific consensus.

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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. #5
Edited on Fri Oct-12-07 12:21 PM by FLDem5
Burton:

Mr Gore asserts in scene 7 that the disappearance of snow on Mt Kilimanjaro is expressly attributable to global warming. It is noteworthy that this is a point that specifically impressed Mr Milliband (see the press release quoted at paragraph 6 above). However, it is common ground that, the scientific consensus is that it cannot be established that the recession of snows on Mt Kilimanjaro is mainly attributable to human-induced climate change.

The Kilimanjaro glacier may or may not be disappearing due to global warming, but it is making other tropical glaciers disappear. So while he could have picked a better example, it doesn't affect his argument.


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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. #6
The drying up of Lake Chad is used as a prime example of a catastrophic result of global warming. However, it is generally accepted that the evidence remains insufficient to establish such an attribution. It is apparently considered to be far more likely to result from other factors, such as population increase and over-grazing, and regional climate variability.

Sanjay Gupta reports:

The United Nations Environment Programme says that about half of the lake's decrease is attributable to human water use such as inefficient damming and irrigation methods. The other half of the shrinkage is due to shifting climate patterns. Anada Tiega of the Lake Chad Basin Commission blames climate change for 50 to 75 percent of the water's disappearance.

So some of it is due to human use, but it is wrong to say that global warming has been ruled out as a cause.

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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. #7
In scene 12 Hurricane Katrina and the consequent devastation in New Orleans is ascribed to global warming. It is common ground that there is insufficient evidence to show that.

Gore does not ascribe Katrina to global warming. He follows the scientific consensus in saying that warming will make hurricanes get stronger. Katrina is used as an example of the damage that stronger hurricanes could do and of the consequences of ignoring warnings from scientists.

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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. #8
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article767459.ece

Polar bears drown as ice shelf melts

However, last September, when the ice cap had retreated a record 160 miles north of Alaska, 51 bears were spotted, of which 20% were seen in the open sea, swimming as far as 60 miles off shore.

The researchers returned to the vicinity a few days later after a fierce storm and found four dead bears floating in the water. “We estimate that of the order of 40 bears may have been swimming and that many of those probably drowned as a result of rough seas caused by high winds,” said the report.

In their search for food, polar bears are also having to roam further south, rummaging in the dustbins of Canadian homes. Sir Ranulph Fiennes, the explorer who has been to the North Pole seven times, said he had noticed a deterioration in the bears’ ice habitat since his first expedition in 1975.

“Each year there was more water than the time before,” he said. “We used amphibious sledges for the first time in 1986.”

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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. #9
http://www.gtp89.dial.pipex.com/06.pdf

Burton is wrong. The IPCC report actually states:

Late 20th century effects of rising temperature include loss of sea ice, thawing of permafrost and associated coastal retreat, and more frequent coral bleaching and mortality.

Overall, there are a couple of points where I wish Gore would have talked about timescales and probabilities (sea level rise and thermohaline circulation), and a couple of examples that could have been better chosen (Kilimanjaro and Lake Chad). Burton was mistaken on the other points where he felt that Gore went past the consensus. I don't think that there is any harm in the Guidance Notes on Burton's nine points, but the usual suspects will, of course, ignore the fact that the judge found that Gore was "broadly accurate" and try to make it look as if there are serious problems with AIT and climate science.

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
16. Thanks for posting this...
I am bookmarking it for future use, I am very sure it will come in handy and soon!

Recommended.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
17. Tucker has a Global Warming denier on - according to him,
Al Gore' goal is to take over the world by shutting down our economy.

Ugh.
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AnotherGreenWorld Donating Member (958 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I've stopped watching Tucker. It's just too much.
Is it the same guy from Exxon's Competitive Enterprise Institute he used to have on all the time?
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-12-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yes, salt/pepper hair, lots of teeth.
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