Olberman: General askes "24" creator to cut it out...

[walldude]

Olberman gave his Worst Person In The World today to Joel Surnow the creator of Fox's "24". Apparently a General whose name I did not catch called Surnow to ask that they stop portraying the military as people who "bend the law and torture". I guess Surnow really didn't have time to listen to the General's complaints. Hence his WPITW award. I also notice that Mr Surnow is also the creator of the hilarious new Fox news comedy show "The Half Hour News Hour". Which kind of puts a damper on some DU'ers pro-24 stance. I've never watched it and never cared to so I stayed out of the debate but this certainly doesn't make "24" look fair and balanced...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. It's Just A TV Show, And A Great One At That. Sometimes I Think The World's Gone Mad.

[walldude]

3. Yes it is, just a TV show

So was the Path to 9/11

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

4. Huge Difference. And If You Can't See It, Then I Don't Know What To Tell Ya.

[walldude]

7. Propaganda is propaganda and if you can't see that

then I don't know what to tell ya.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. It's A Fictional TV Show. Get A Grip.

And I disagree with you wholeheartedly that the show engages in propaganda. Course, since you never watched it and are willingly choosing to cast opinion of it based on complete and utter ignorance, that doesn't come as a surprise.

[walldude]

11. Hey I held my opinions on the show till I heard the Olberman story.

When I found out the show's creator was a Fox News flunkie and shill then yeah I had some doubts. Sorry if your little fantasy that it's just a TV show doesn't fit in with the evidence being presented. Besides if this is all a waste of time to you then stay out of the thread.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

14. ROFLMAO!!!!

That's gotta be the funniest thing I've ever heard!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You're an expert on the show now cause of a 5 minute Olbermann clip. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Dude, you're too much!

Seriously... I sooooooooo am not taking your opinion as having any legitimacy. Until you watch the show regularly and take the steps necessary to not talk from an angle of contextual ignorance, your opinion is one that carries any weight to me. I don't mean that harshly, just logically.

[walldude]

23. Round and round... I never claimed to be an expert

as a matter of fact I went out of my way to admit that I never watched the show and I went out of my way to admit that I was stating an opinion on the facts that were presented to me. You are the one claiming I said I was an expert. See you and I agree on some things and don't on others, you score extra points with me for the Queensryche reference, so I would never be nasty to you but, for you to sit there and say there is positively no chance that this show has some propaganda potential is dishonest. Again I would ask why the U.S. General would feel the need to speak to the show's creator personally if there was not an issue? Oh, and if my argument has no legitimacy then why do you keep responding?
One more thing, if that is the funniest thing you ever heard then you seriously need to get some Richard Pryor and Bill Hicks DVD's ;)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

28. Hey, Can't Argue For A Second About The Richard Pryor And Bill Hicks Reference.

Comic geniuses. Both of them.

And hey, just so we're clear, when I respond on here I do it topic by topic, post by post. I just call it like I see it at the time, but never take any of it from one thread to the next. So I'm glad you disagree with me on certain things and agree with me on others. That's the way it should be between everyone here. I know I agree with you on plenty of things as well. But I love 24 and consider it to be literally one of the most exhilarating and entertaining shows on tv. Only recently have I begun hearing this 'republican propaganda' stuff, and as a regular watcher of the show for years I can't help but find it a bit unfounded. There are a TON of things that happen on that show that are of a total liberal slant. Personally, I think it's well rounded enough that both sides of the aisle can watch it, enjoy it, and take their own political perception slant away from it. But when it's all said and done, I'm fairly certain that the majority of us that are loyal to the show don't watch it with politics in mind anyway. We just watch it because it is literally just completely addictive, entertaining and keeps ya counting the days until Monday.

[Bucky]

13. You should post this same comment a couple of more times in this thread....

...then you'll start to change some minds.

Seriously, tho', this is one topic where people will simply see different things. You and I see an edgy, fast paced TV show and know it's all fake. I really enjoyed what few episodes I've seen. The sad reality is that that now a couple of officials in charge of training young interrogators have now complained that they can't seem to convince their own students that crossing ethical boundries only yields crappy intel.

Obviously the bigger problem is having a president and AG who encourage these "constant ticking bomb" fantasies and the "torture works" delusions. But put together these two factors are slowing down our eventual victory over the Wahhabist terror networks.

[stanwyck]

21. Does it bother you, though,

that Joel Surnow, the producer, is a self-professed "rightwing nut job" who worships Rush Limbaugh (threw a big party for him) and who is now producing the "Half Hour News Show" for Fox? Or is that irrelevant? (I've never watched the show). But I just wonder if it does bother you at all that the force behind the show is so firmly, and proudly, an ultra-conservative. (Like I say, I don't watch the show. However, my co-workers who do, refer to me as "Chloe". I don't think that's a compliment. I read in TIME magazine that Rush kissed the actress who plays Chloe full on the lips cause he's such a big fan. Yuck.)
By the way, I watched the YouTube clip of the "Half Hour News Show". It sucks. (though Rush is on record as saying it's "hilarious"). Apparently Rush and Coulter appear on the first show.
But if you're a Surnow fan, you might want to check it out.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. Awwwww, That Was So Cute.

Seriously, that was so cute how you tried like calling me a freeper and stuff who'd like the republican daily show just cause I'm a fan of 24. Awwwww, so cute that was. You so silly willy nilly.

[Hippo_Tron]

20. Path to 9/11 claimed to be based on the 9/11 commission report

24 does not.

[walldude]

24. Actually The Path To 9/11 had to disclaim that it was a fictional account

of the events leading up to 9/11 or they would have gotten their asses sued to hell and back.

[Hippo_Tron]

27. It still claimed to be in part based on the 9/11 commission account

They had to say that it was a "Dramatization in part based on the 9/11 commission account" so that they wouldn't get sued. So they were still making claim that their fictional docudrama had some factual basis.

24 makes no such claim.

[wordpix]

5. unfortunately, the show portrays US interrogators as brutal torturers

We know there are some like that but I take issue ---professional interrogators know they won't get accurate information by torture. And this is not a great image to export to the world.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

6. I Repeat: It's Just A TV Show, And A Great One At That. Sometimes I Think The World's Gone Mad.

[walldude]

9. So you are saying that it's crazy to think that maybe

since the creator of the show is now doing a Fox News comedy show that there might be a chance they are using "24" as propaganda? I guess you're right, I guess that US General has no idea what he's talking about, and I guess that nuclear explosion on US soil thay had on 24 was just.. you know.. cool. It was not meant to frighten anyone, especially during a time when an attack like that is a real possibility. It's all just entertainment.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. With All Due Respect, I'm Choosing To Not Continue Discussing A Topic With Someone Who Is Admittedly

ignorant of it. To do so would be a display of utter futility and foolishness.

[Jonathan50]

25. My wife watches 24 and I catch a fair bit of it.

There is a concept in fiction called "suspension of disbelief", and for me 24 violates the hell out of it.

Satellites which hover over a given spot on earth? Nope, I don't think so.

Suicide terrorists who give up correct information after five minutes of "torture"? Yeah right.

Amnesia is an extremely rare event and those who are amnesiac also forget simple skills such as cooking and driving.

Below is a compendium of screw ups on 24.

http://www.moviemistakes.com/tv3007

[Hippo_Tron]

22. So did The Siege

Yet nobody complained when that movie came out.

[Seen the light]

31. AGREED! nt

[Greyhound]

37. The world has gone mad, and I'm glad you like the show, but great?

Don't think so. The writing is tepid at best, the stories have more holes than Paul Wolfowitz's socks, and they always rely on everybody except Jack being a low-grade moron, unable to even count to two, let alone put a pair together.

[merh]

49. Folks think that if they see it on TV it is real or the people who make

the shows couldn't air it.

These sheeple, do you know how often they post threads on their forums debating Jack Bauer situations and whether or not we "peaceniks" would use torture if our family was tied to the dirty bomb, yada yada. They not only buy into it, they want to be the ones that torture, it would be just so cool for them.

:(

[JerseygirlCT]

2. I've never watched 24, but have friends who've been totally

hooked.

Watching just a little from the show on MSNBC just now, I'm sickened.

Good grief! Gratuitous violence, anyone?

That was sickening. And definitely not for me.

[Patchuli]

12. Yes, exactly.

Seeing Kiefer bite out the throat of a guy was enough for me. My husband watches it while I read DU...

[JerseygirlCT]

16. I can't watch the Sopranos, either

much as my husband loves it.

It gets to me physically to watch that sort of violence.

[trumad]

39. "My husband watches it while I read DU"...

my experience has shown me that that can be equally as torturous,,,,

[Patchuli]

47. At least I don't see throats bit out!

Although there is frequent 'bloodletting' I've noticed!

[Malikshah]

15. Some people just don't get it--it is akin to that

fictional show in V for Vendetta...

Nationalistic jingoism and dehumanization

But hey, if it makes the masses feel better!

[dogman]

17. Sure, let Gonzo, Rummy , and Dick Vader off the hook.

That damn TV show is responsible. 24 is not a news show, why would it be fair and balanced. If you knew what you were writing about, you might be able to discuss this in an intelligent fashion. The theme of the show is basically based on the MIHOP theory. Rich MIC fellows use others as pawns to create a police state in America, now isn't that hard to believe?

[walldude]

19. No, what's hard to believe is that you take a comment I made

about a commentary on a TV show and accuse me of letting the entire Bush administration off the hook. All I did was question the motive behind the show and the "24" lovers come out of the woodwork and tell me I'm blaming all our nations problems on their little TV show. That's pretty funny actually.

[dogman]

43. No your just keeping the spin spinning.

I'm not accusing you of letting the WH off the hook. I'm accusing the whole TV makes them torture meme of letting the WH off the hook. What about the fact that so far the real bad guys have been the MIC? Is that the motive behind the show?

[w13rd0]

18. 24 and "the 1/2 hour news hour" have many things in common...

...

Joel Surnow - right wing hack
both shows are very unfunny
neither show has a single redeemable moment or single frame that is in any way "happy" or "uplifting"
both encourage "hero worship" of a man that commits evil acts for "the right reasons" and comes from an evil, monstrous family
both portray the "good guys" as clueless buffoons and the "bad guys" as wicked masterminds
both encourage fear and paranoia, and try to frame bigots and zealots as being "right in retrospect"

That being said, I do watch 24, for the same reason I used to go to the Rocky Horror Picture Show. It's camp. I mean seriously, how many times can Jack Bauer self-induce heart attacks and the cessation of brain functions before he's confined to a wheelchair? Heck, in most action films, one marvels over the unlimited ammo clips. In 24, we can marvel over Jack Bauers ability to repeatedly spring back not just from the brink of death, but death itself. He's like the child of Jesus and Dirty Harry.

[WCGreen]

33. Wouldn't that be Joseph and Dirty Mary.....

Remember, no gay marriages allowed...

[w13rd0]

34. I don't want

to get in trouble with William Donahue or do I?

[trumad]

40. both shows are very unfunny?

Then why do me and my wife laugh all the way through it? It's the campiest show on TV.

[WCGreen]

26. I gave up on the show after they killed the lesbian hit woman

Seriously, it was cool but just got far to soap operaish after the thrill was over...

You have to invest far too much time in order to keep up with it all...

Not for me but hey, if you like it, watch it...

If you don't, don't...

[Seen the light]

32. Mandy? She's not dead, they just wrote her out nt

[Seen the light]

30. I'm honestly starting to lose respect for KO

I don't know if he was originally going to be on the show and they kicked him in favor of someone else or what, but he's off his rocker when it comes to this show.

Joel Surnow is definitely a MORAN though.

[w13rd0]

35. The show DOES advance the ticking bomb

scenario and push torture as acceptable to the general public. Ko is right to criticize and ridicule. I like the show but it IS propaganda.

[ShortnFiery]

36. "24" enjoys the moral equivalency of underground snuff videos. n/t

[Jonathan50]

38. Torture porn, IMO

[trumad]

42. underground snuff videos?....

uh...one is real and the other is not. big diff

[maine_raptor]

41. I've never watched either show, but

if it's on Fox............

IT'S BULLSHIT!

That's my simple, easy to follow rule.

[ktlyon]

44. It is not just military every character in the show breaks the law

If this is how our intelligence and other agencies work, we are in trouble.

[Wetzelbill]

45. He also helped produce Miami Vice

I don't hear anybody flipping out about how RW that show is or anything. Reruns are on all the time.

See the thing is, 24 is a great show and anybody watching it can take from it whatever they want. If some RWer gets off on torture and fear, well they got that. If a Dem is interested in protecting Civil Liberties or watching a Dem president look strong on security and still be moral, like David Palmer was, then it has that as well. Lots of stuff going on in 24.

Now, of course, his new "comedy" show is blatant political BS, but I wouldn't say everything he does is of that caliber. In fact, that is probably about the only thing he has done that is like that.

But you know, 24 doesn't have to be fair and balanced, it just has to be entertaining. If you haven't watched it, I'd recommend it, one of the top couple shows on television. Very smart and extremely well done. It's a classic.

[sendero]

46. In this rare occasion..

... I sorta agree with everyone. I watched the first 2 seasons, and found them somewhat enjoyable. But really, the formula goes pretty stale after a while. You can only suspend disbelief for so long.

As for it's propaganda value, there is no question in my mind that the the actions of Jack Bauer are well-chosen for their progagandistic effect.

That said, any number of TV shows or movies could be said to be propaganda. One could argue that propaganda about the war on terror could be particularly pernicious, and I might not disagree. But really, 24 has about as much in common with real life as Bush does with Einstein.

And if we REALLY had Jack Bauers in our CIA, we wouldn't have had to lose 3,000+ American lives, 200,000+ Iraqi lives and a trillion dollars to take out a tin-pot dictator that we created in the first place.

[Gabi Hayes]

48. let's do a poll: how many think that both 24 and South Park

are great?