Is it possible to be pro-police, yet not an authoritarian yutz?

[keroro gunsou]

I'm just asking, not trolling, or trying to incite the flamewar of the century. I've seen plenty of posts for both sides, and I am just wondering if there is some middle ground to be had. I've got respect for individual police officers, they're doing a job I cannot do, but as an organization, I've got a healthy mistrust of them.

Most of my contact with police has been in a non "i'm on the recieving end of my Mirandas" type of a way, so i've honestly got no frame of reference as to how i'd be treated as a perp.

I guess I'm hopeless in thinking that should I be on the getting end of Miranda that the officer in question is a professional.

Ok, enough rambling, any thoughts on a middle ground here?

[PDJane]

1. I married an officer once in my misspent youth.

I plead hormones and youthful stupidity.

Have I met really great police officers? Frankly, no. The job means that officers develop a seige mentality. It's the nature of the job.

Of course, the other half of it is that anyone who wants to be a police officer should, under no circumstances, be allowed the job.

[Irreverend IX]

2. I'm not hugely "pro-police..."

I have a strong dislike of no-knock warrants and many other aspects of modern police procedure. However, I think it's reasonable for an officer to shoot someone if they've got cause to believe the perp is trying to kill them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Absolutely

I have worked side by side with cops, as a paramedic, and my family is a police family

That is why I know that there are yutzes like in any other profession

There are people who should never be cops, who are (a few)

There are cops who should leave the service becuase they should no longer be cops (a few more)

And there are cops that are following literally a calling

How good or bad your department is truly depends on good leadership or bad leadership

Hell LAPD is infamous, but their leadership has sucked for decades it seems

San Diego PD had issues, and in-spite of how they are treated by the local city they manage to be a good department.

Hiow long they will remain that is a question (budget issues are forcing good officers to flee)

But yes you can be pro police, as long as you keep on your police department and don't let them get away with things when they screw up

By the way, I worked with Tijuana Cops, as a volunteer medic... and the same applied down there... and I owe a couple of them nothing less than my life

[Marrah_G]

8. "How good or bad your department is truly depends on good leadership or bad leadership"

SO true!

[OffWithTheirHeads]

4. My grandson recently became a police officer

After about a year, I really don't know what to think. He was the nicest, most empathetic kid I ever knew. Now, it seems he has developed an us v them mentality. Seems to have no concern for how his actions can affect the lives of those he interacts with.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Ask him to speak to the Chaplain

and where exactly has he served? Becuase officers who serve in high risk areas develop it... that is why they should be cycled in and out to a point

Also it depends whether there is community policing

Hell, we medics had to watch for it at times

After all I was assaulted a couple times

:-)

And goddamit I was there to help folks and wasn't armed (does the mag light count?)

[Skittles]

14. seeing the ugly side of life can do that to a person

please request that he speak to someone; don't let his job take away his humanity

[ecstatic]

5. I don't think so

Especially when it comes to supporting the shooting of unarmed citizens.

[Marrah_G]

6. Absolutely

I am pro-good-police and Anti-bad-police. I am not for an authoritarian state, but I do realize there are bad people out there that good people need protection from.

I was to a Wiccan-Liberal-Democrat-Biker-Philospher type law enforcement office. He was a good man and treated others with respect. He comes from a family of good cops.

Yes there are bad ones out there and some forces attract shitty cops. There are also really good departments out there. I personally think there are more good ones out there then bad ones. You only hear about the bad ones.

I've run into some assholes out there, sometimes even with my ex. They are a large group of human beings with a variety of personalities found in every group. I try not to judge the many by the actions of a few.

[jpgray]

7. Sure. But to me "pro-police" doesn't mean reflexively denying any and all misbehavior

Someone who supports the cops should be very honest and critical about their behavior. You can respect the level of responsibility some are able to live up to even as you deplore those who fall very short of fulfilling that responsibility.

[Marrah_G]

9. Very true

My ex used to get extremely annoyed when he would hear about corrupt cops because in his opinion it put them all at risk and made their jobs more difficult. I have little doubt he would be the first to drop a dime.

[liberalmuse]

10. I don't care too much for the police.

And I've never been in trouble with the law, but I've had friends relate their experiences and I've watched "COPS" with disgust. Most I've met have been arrogant, self-important assholes, to be frank. Then again, most of my experience with them has been in Utah. My friend was busted at BYU for going into the underground tunnels. They ransacked her room and found anti-Mormon literature. While they were taking her mugshot they made offensive comments about her looks (she was very pretty). Another friend who used to be Mormon was pulled over for speeding and when the cop saw his Eagle scout card, he started insulting him, telling him he was a disgrace to the Mormon church (he had long hair). I went to a party where there were cops, and their idea of entertainment was to spray aerosol and light it, and then laugh themselves silly. Cops also busted down my sisters door because a neighbor who had a son my nephew played with convinced them he was in her house. He wasn't, and the cops treated my sister like shit, and didn't apologize after invading her home and acting like total pricks. It takes a special type of person to go into law enforcement, or to be a Blackwater merc. I can't stand authoritarians, cops being the worst. My view isn't very balanced, but as an observer (I've lived in apartments where they were called quite a few times), I've seen them condescend to people, or smirk amongst themselves and treat my neighbors like dogs.

[Odin2005]

12. Yes. Most cops are good people doing a very tough job.

The profession by nature will always attract assholes that are in it because they get a kick out of treating people like shit, but most cops aren't like that.

[TheUniverse]

13. Here's my view.

Many people who become police do it because they want to control people. Not all cops are that way, and the bad cops give the good ones a bad name. In the event of an incident I believe that the burdon of proof lies on the police. They work to enforce the will of the government, so they should be held to a higher standard.

[w8liftinglady]

15. My 17-year old is a police explorer

I would love if he would become a full-fledged police officer.He loves law enforcement.Zan he has the liberal slant.

[Warren Stupidity]

16. We've encouraged and subsidized the militarization of police work.

The end result for our urbanized regions is a domestic paramilitary force almost completely detached from the communities they 'serve and protect'.

[Vektor]

17. I have no disrespect for the law or authority figures.

I will question authority if I believe there are abuses being committed, but I do not automatically believe someone is a "bad guy" just because they wear a uniform.

I have never had an abusive confrontation with a police officer, and the ones I have encountered for whatever reason, have been reasonable and civil. A good friend of mine is a police officer, and he's a genuinely decent citizen, who is a very diplomatic presence.

So yeah, it's possible. I'm not "pro-police" as much as I am simply not "anti-law enforcement" as long as the individuals doing the enforcing are fair and not abusive. Sadly, we see a lot of stories on the news about the cops that snap and end up tasering and beating people, but there are thousands of police officers in this country who do not do that. They don't make the evening news for doing their job correctly, unfortunately. Only the bad apples get all the attention.

I'm pro-human in general, no matter what the person's occupation, unless that individual is an asshole. And they do occur in all occupations, as do good people.

[EFerrari]

18. There are jerk cops just like there are jerks in any group.

There are many cop and firefighter families in my neighborhood and they are great neighbors. :)

I don't think cops are the problem. The problem is policy and cops don't set policy. Their hard job is to enforce it along side of the random jerk.

[The Magistrate]

22. Exactly, Ma'am

And police officers are as aware of that as anyone. On one occassion, the details of which are not worth describing, two officers caught up with me outside the station to apologize for a colleague's behavior towards me and a young woman I was helping try and find a friend gone missing.

It is true that police work does tend to put men and women in contact with the worst elements of both human behavior and humanity, and this can produce a jaundiced, even morbid and embittered outlook. Modern police training tends to focus officers on working to a drill in contacts with people in the line of duty, rather than using their personal judgement of what line to take in a particular situation: this can moderate some excessive and unlawful abuse of the 'bastard needs to get what's coming to him' sort, but can also prevent wisely lenient behavior that would benefit the police as much as the persons involved and the public at large. 'One size fits all' generally does not really fit anyone....

"To be a policeman is to be lied to for a living."

[EFerrari]

23. I would last about five minutes. When God was a boy

I translated in all the jails here and had the pleasure of translating some great fabrications. Once, one DEA defendant miraculously recovered his sight AND his ability to speak English as soon as he left the courtroom on being acquitted.

Live and learn. :)

[The Magistrate]

24. Indeed, Ma'am

"He is a fool who learns by experience. I prefer to learn by the experience of others."

[terisan]

19. Of course. I have known many fine police officers. Abuse of authority occurs in all professions

Politicians, govt employees, school teachers, college professors, corporate ceos, military officers and personell, parents, bus drivers, attorneys, physicians...............

[EST]

20. The answer, in my opinion, is "no."

No doubt you will get many answers defending police, but those defenders, invariably, are not unbiased, unsurprisingly; almost no one is.
Historically, the job of policing one's fellows is a damn difficult one. It is not the nice guys among one's fellows that a cop has to interact with, most of the time, it is the ones who are fervently against whatever standards exist that need policing. In times of little oversight, the only thing a society can do is to influence one of the violent, lawless practitioners, through money, status, whatever it takes, to abandon the nasty crew he'd normally feel at home with and use his violence and bullying nature in pursuit of higher virtues.

"Command presence" is nothing more than a well developed capacity for bullying and many cops, if they were not cops, would be in prison, not sending other people there. Harnessing the vicious and tawdry nature of some humans is a task that any society has to confront and there is just no place else to put them, other than competing with people like them. Learning to "think like the criminal" is no joke. It is also much easier than most police officers would like to admit. To many, if not most, it's natural.

Of course there are dedicated people working for police organizations who perform the multitude of functions that have to be done who in no way can be said to conform to this pattern, but they are not the ones we normally include when we think of "cops." They are functionaries, scientists, ambassadors, managers, and other necessary workers, but the thing they are not is "cops."

I have worked closely with cops, over the years, and there is no doubt that they are human, they may love their families, and that they are possessed of emotions, but not in the same mix as the majority of the populace.

You will hear from many who repeat the "a few bad apples" meme, and that's just self-gratifying bullshit. They are all bad apples, some worse than others, but they are essential, necessary bad apples. If it weren't for these really necessary bad apples to control the really, really bad guys, we would really be in a world of hurt.
If it weren't for these horrible, lovable people, we would have to give everyone a personality test at sixteen and execute everyone who doesn't score well...unacceptable and impossible.

Authoritarian jerks? No question. Pushy, pissy people who, under other circumstances would be the crooks we set them to catch? Absolutely.
But among them are the wonderful, brave creatures who would save your ass from worse. They are the ones who overcome their own fears of death and injury to wade in and take care of bad situations, who make the moves to save lives while the rest of us intellectual obsessives are still thinking about it.

So, rather than there being some "bad apples" in an otherwise acceptable barrel, we have a whole barrel of bad apples, with a bunch of good ones included, wonderful, selfless people, without whom society would be impossible.
They are also the most paranoid people on the planet.

Next chance you get, go hug and kiss a cop. They make life possible.
At least shake their hands and thank them.

[Thirtieschild]

21. Husband went through police academy at age 60

His newspaper paid for it so he could write a story about it. Liked it so much he's been a reserve officer ever since. Reserve was great for him in a working class suburb, not so great now in a rural sheriff's department. Says no dedication here, everyone out for himself. Problems seem to come from top down.