Hanging Witch effigy; Hate Crime or anti-Hillary statement?

[icymist]

I found an article about a hanging witch effigy earlier today:

Halloween Decoration or Hate Crime?
By WINK News

Story Created: Oct 13, 2007 at 11:28 PM EDT

Story Updated: Oct 13, 2007 at 11:28 PM EDT

What's supposed to be a simple Halloween decoration is now brewing up some controversy in Chicopee, Massachusetts.

One group is calling the decoration a hate crime.
Read the full article

Normally, I'd let a post like this alone in the forum which it is originally displayed. However, I began to check the Pagan blogs and found an increasing comparison of the effigy to Hillary Clinton. For example, here are some of the comments from
And what's with this lady's last name being "Lynch"?

Yeah, it's offensive. He lives in Massachusetts, so obviously he knows the history. This seems a deliberate attempt to get a rise, using Halloween as the cover excuse. If it was a doll of a black person or Bush, people would freak and the hate-crime issue would not be questioned.

I think the most alarming thing to me is how the article at the end uses the famous mis-quote from the Bible saying to kill witches.

Bottom line to me, if he hates witches he should leave Massachusetts. And why not our community do a little magick to right these kind of political issues rather than get our broom bristles all in a bunch?

my 2 cents....
BB,
Maeven





Oh, Was That Supposed To Be Hillary? Oct 15th. at 1:35:00 pm EDT


Youngermoon (Columbia, Maryland) - Email Me

I have a hard time seeing that mannequin as Hilary Clinton. It probably is, after all, that is a pre-fab store-bought latex mask that is put on there, and I am sure there are Hillary masks available, but it never actually looked like Hillary to me, even after people said that it was. The "D" is not clear and obvious either. My point: it really is not obvious that this is a political statement, directed at Hillary, but the witch elements are much more played up and obvious. The guy could, in fact, be getting a 2-for-1 attack in here (witches and Hillary) .

Next, everyone is entitled to an opinion on this. Just because it looks like Hillary does not mean that she is the only one that has a right to be offended (does being the victim privelege someone to having an opinion?) . Kelly Lynch has every right to be offended. So do I. I also have the right to not be offended. I have the right to think whatever I want to about this issue, and say so. So does everyone else.


The article they're quoting the Bible verse from is printed in The World Nut Daily. Witchvox is not the only blog with comments stating that the effigy is Hillary. I also found this at a blog called The Wild Hunt[/i>:

<snip>
A point of context, that is mentioned above but may not be clear: The hanging "Hillary witch" is not part of a larger Halloween display. According to those who've gone to this man's house in person, it's the only "decoration" in his yard.

So what do you think? Tasteless joke? Freedom of speech? Hate crime? Political statement? Just plain silly?

On edit, Witchvox link didn't allow to display their comments for examples, but you may read them by clicking on the 'Wichvox' link above.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. Quintessential freedom of speech

If you can't hang a famous political figure in effigy on your own property we're all screwed.

My local drugstore is selling Frankenstein dolls with a Hillary head stuck on for Halloween. (Nobody seems to have told corporate headquarters that some of their stores are in Dem areas.)

[tom_paine]

6. Oh yeah? Try hanging Bushler in effigy on your front lawn and see what happens...

It'll be

and

Go ahead and try it for Halloween...

[Bitwit1234]

8. HELL YOU can't even wear a T-Shirt that is negative to bush

and hanging Hillary is freedom of speech. Shoot you all are as bad as the republicans. HANGING SOMEONE IN EFFIGY , EVEN BUSH, IS NOT COOL.

[pnwmom]

11. So . . . organized crime types turn up in ladies' sunglasses?

Scary.

[tom_paine]

16. No, the SS (Secret Service) will have a few questions for you, to say the least

And like the Anthrax Assassin, they just won't be able to find the ones who vandalized your house, gosh darn it!

But they WILL grill you about your Bushler display.

Go ahead and try it, if you don't believe me.

If that's ALL that happens to you, consider yourself lucky.

[pnwmom]

28. I was kinda kidding.

But don't you think they look rather thuggish?

:shrug:

[Quantess]

21. Exactly. THAT would be deemed a death threat

to the pretzeldent.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. Sorry, Bush effigies are protected too.

[icymist]

29. Yeah, only in 'the protected free speech zones'!

To be fair, where and when was your picture taken? :hi:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. I'm thinking around 2004.

But I only barely remember it. I could be off.

[icymist]

38. Okay. Where do you remember this picture from?

eom

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. I think it was Berkeley.

[icymist]

51. Thank you.

I like your honesty.

[LanternWaste]

42. Just political figures, or anyone?

Just political figures, or anyone? And if it is indeed everyone, do we differentiate between a noose hanging from a tree with the effigy of a black person in it versus your simply, garden variety effigy?

If we do make the differentiation, what is the precise and relevant difference in the two. If it's only limited to political figures, what's the moral difference-- as the political figure and the private citizen are both human beings?

:shrug:

[Lilith Velkor]

2. Tasteless political joke

A Hillary Iron Maiden would be way funnier.

:hide:

[icymist]

3. The Wild Hunt link isn't working well.

I tried twice and for some reason it only seems to bounce back to Witchvox. Damn Witches!!! Heh, heh! You can click on The Wild Hunt here. I got to run off to work now, so I'll be back for discussion in the morning. Ta Ta!

[The Straight Story]

4. We need a two headed monster - hillary and bush

:rofl: Now that would scare the kids AND the adults.

[fedupfisherman]

5. Hate crime n/t

[incapsulated]

7. FYI, the hate crime allegation is from a pagan

http://www.winknews.com/news/weird/10527997.html

[icymist]

46. Is that a real Pagan? That is some questions I've encountered.

Her answers to basic questions make these question arise.
<snip>
"We don't harm anyone, we worship god, we are not evil, and we don't cast spells, " says Lynch.
Link
The quote "we worship god" sounds very much like any quote from the religious right in American politics today. Odd to find this from a Pagan. The entire Pagan-spere on the internet is aware of this, if not getting inflamed. This is a very touchy situation. Diplomats? Please?

[Lilith Velkor]

59. She calls herself a witch and then claims witches don't cast spells?

Sounds like a bored nutter trying to start shit to me.

[Marrah_G]

80. SHe's more of a new ager

There are lots of them out there. They are just looking for the "cool factor".

Yes we believe in God, many of them as a matter of fact, a bunch of Goddesses too. And yup we cast spells. That may mean different things to different people but it certainly doesn't fit her version.

I would classify her as a Abrahamic Spiritualist. She still believes in the concept of the Abrahamic God, which Wiccans/Pagans do not.

[EST]

9. Could be either.

People lie, dissimulate, pervert, on and on. If people weren't bad-ass hypocrites and even criminally ignorant bleating sheep, why in the hell would we need the other half of the "ten" commandments?
People are jerks. They do jerky things and then lie about it. Don't expect clear, incisive answers from people; they are constitutionally incapable of it and haven't the mental, moral clarity to own up to their own jerkiness, except for the ones who glory in and are proud of it.
What they lie about is their reasons.

Definition of jerk? One who is convinced he knows everything worth knowing or who is convinced his opinion is either the only one worthwhile or the most worthwhile. I'm sure I don't know anybody like that, do you?

[Mojorabbit]

10. I liked this post from the witchvox site

"Hanging effigies is alright, as long as they don't look too lifelike. That means that I can make one up of guy in a black suit with a big wooden cross around his heck and a book with a big cross painted on the cover in his hand, and as long as I'm sure to paint his skin some fantastic color like mauve, no Christians should be at all offended. It'll be a hoot!

But, of course, I can't really do that because everyone knows that Christians are real, live, sensitive human beings who have a right to not be hung in effigy, no matter how badly misrepresented the effigy is.

The issue here is educating the public that there are people who use the term "witch" to describe themselves, and that at least some of them aren't very pleased with the imaginary monsters that also go by that name being hung on gallows, even as a prank.

~ Cobweb"

There is another post that says the guy hangs a figure every year for halloween but this year decided to make it look like a witch. The pagan lists I belong to have been abuzz about this all day. I would have to speak to the guy or have more info to make any kind of judgement.
I haven't been to the witchvox site in ages. Thanks for sending me there.

[Didereaux]

12. You would make a judgement? Who are you to judge freedom of speech?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but no matter how hateful, hurtful or stupid something may seem to you, if it an expression of speech and not a physical assualt or cry for physical harm...then you have no standing as a judge on it.

This is the problem we have always faced throughout the last century, the twirly eyed whackos on the left wanted to impose absolutes on everyone, and when they weren't in charge the twirly-eyed whackos on the right wanted to impose their absolutes on everyone.

Whackos exist in almost equal proportions on both sides of the socio-political fence and the rest of us scurrying about trying to maintain our existence let the squirrels run amuck until they almost destroy us before we finally step in and refit the straight jackets.

It's time we spent a little extra time re-tightening the straight jackets of ALL the whackos.

[Der Blaue Engel]

13. If a skinhead spraypaints swastikas in front of a synagogue

we recognize that as a hate crime.

If a Klan member hangs an effigy of a black man on his lawn, or burns a cross, we know what it means.

Is this instance the same? Did this person intend this as a message to witches or uppity women? Who knows? But a reasonable person can certainly make a reasoned judgment of whether she thinks such an action is a message of hate without threatening anyone's freedom of speech. That's the great part about it: we are free to make judgments, just as you did on the post above.

[Didereaux]

15. the skinhead cannot....

... nor anyone else, deface, destroy or harm another person or persons property in the name of free speech! PERIOD They can however do pretty much what they please on their own person or property. Not agreeable to others sometimes, but you cannot have free speech and then put restrictions upon it. Wouldn't be 'free' any longer, would it?

Acting, speaking or anything else done without first thinking about it, is just stupidity. An old Chinese proverb goes something along the lines of 'reflecting without thinking is a waste of time, thinking without reflection is dangerous!' or some such.

[Der Blaue Engel]

19. I'm still not seeing where deciding something is hate speech

is a curtailment of their free speech. I'm talking about the right to recognize hate speech for what it is (if it indeed is hate) and not being told we have no right to make such judgments.

If I see an effigy of an LGBT person hung in someone's yard, I'm not just going to go, "Ho, hum. He has the right." I'm going to say something about it, as is MY right.

[icymist]

20. Good point. This act was very degrading to Pagans....

and in a state that has a history of persecuting witches. I see this as bad taste in free-speech, verging on a hate crime. We need to know what the 'host' of this hanging effigy was meaning before we can tell his intention.

[Marrah_G]

22. We have alot more acceptance here in MAss then anywhere else

I don't know what this guys angle is, against women, witches or just a decoration.

I just have to take a deep breath and know that some day my children's children's children might not be seen as Evil .

[icymist]

23. Some are hinting that the mask on the effigy is of Hillary Clinton.

Others, including myself, are wondering about the last name (Lynch) of the witch being interviewed. Is this a form of saying 'lynching'? Also, her statements saying that (witches) "pray to god" makes me wonder about her. Nevertheless, the is a effigy of a witch being hanged in Mass.!!! That part is simply outrageous to Pagans!

[Marrah_G]

24. Sounds like a newager and not a witch

Either that or her comments were misquoted.

Yes, my gut turns seeing that, but I have to stop and be rational and find out what the intent is before judging.

If I didn't stop and do that I would drown in anger.

[icymist]

25. Yup! That's one of the reasons I asked , in the OP, if this was just plain silly!

With everything happening today we, of all people, should not get distracted with such BS! Especially worse would be letting emotions run wild over something as childish as this. Now, over that. ...do you think the mask in the picture of the effigy shown in the news article resembles Hillary? That I cannot figure out.

[Marrah_G]

27. I think it is a mask of her.

I notice that many of the pagans who are steeped in outrage are the new ones. They are still in the rookie stage. Everything is new, everything is bigger then life. I see the same in many religions. Then once they settle in and have maybe had some talks with some elders they settle down a bit and realize that you need to choose your battles wisely. I don't mean to sound condescending to them, as I was once very much the same.

[icymist]

33. I don't know if this mask is of Hillary or not.

You are wise Marrah_G in this statement. There are many new ones who are quick to sound alarm. The trick is to think like them, but not to think like them! Kinda like the Buddhist way of observing while not being involved with what is observed. In other words, detachment.

[icymist]

18. Frankly, this effigy hanging show the so-called 'tolerance' of so-called Christians....

To do this type of effigy in a state with a history of persecuting witches, real or imagined, is tasteless, stupid, causing problems, and just plain silly.

[Mojorabbit]

52. I am talking about

making a judgement on whether it is a hateful symbol against my religion or not. I am not saying he doesn't have the right to do it. Good grief.

[icymist]

17. You're welcome. Thank you for posting one of the elusive Witchvox comments.

I'm still waiting, however, to see the connection between this effigy and Hillary Clinton. Is it because of the mask? Is that a letter 'D' for Democrat on her chest? Why do I keep seeing this comparison to Hillary in the Pagan blogs?

[Marrah_G]

14. It's one of those things I have to tune out

Otherwise the anger gets the better of me. It's just another day, another ignorant prick who's opinion means jack shit.

What comes around goes around and this asshat will get his.


:argh:


Note: Witchvox is a great site (probably the best site) to bookmark if you ever have questions on Wicca or Paganism.

[Beelzebud]

31. Hate Crime? Are you trying to make that term meaningless?

This is why I don't like Hate Crime laws.

[icymist]

37. Not from me. There are Pagan decrying this.

Check out the blogs in the OP. Also, know that this issue is BIG in the Pagan community.

[Beelzebud]

40. Still not a hate crime...

If we label everything people are offended by as "Hate Crimes" we might as well just abolish the first amendment...

[icymist]

71. Still, the term came from others here.

From self proclaimed witches and the news organization wishing to sensationalize this story.

[MadHound]

32. Let's see, pointy hat, broom, close to Halloween

I would have to say that it is probably a simple Halloween decoration, and it is nothing to get bent out of shape about. But apparently some people will:shrug:

[sniffa]

35. of course they wiLL

a hate crime? :rofl:

[icymist]

43. To those in the Pagan community this is a hate crime.

No rolling on the floor joke here. I wish it were. Frankly, honey, I'm not in the mood to laugh at those laughing at those in my religion any more.

[sniffa]

45. ok, i'LL Laugh at you now

:rofl:

maybe they can threaten a broomstick and cauLdron in their next hate crime.... honey.

:rofl:

[icymist]

49. Frankly, You're intentions are shown. You want to ridicule Pagans.

That's fine. That's your right. However, I must move on beyound you for your 'Ha ha' approach cannot be addressed in any other way.

[sniffa]

53. actuaLLy, i'm with you

i want in on this pity party train.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7038401

[icymist]

54. Okay.

I see your scarecrow is the same from the Wizzard Of Oz. Makes me wonder.

[sniffa]

56. was he a pagan too?

or just a symboL for straw men?

[Marrah_G]

55. just let it go hun

Sometimes it isn't worth the argument.

[icymist]

58. You know, or may not know, I work midnights.

I'm beginning to fade now for I got off work at 6:00 AM. The desirer to sleep (also get the recycling out) is strong so I am going to leave here now. Your observation is acute. Please carry on.

[Marrah_G]

61. Go get some sleep

:hug:
:loveya:

Sweet dreams and Blessed Be, Icy!

[MadHound]

65. And what makes you the spokesperson for all the Pagan community?

And what makes you think that a lot of members of the Pagan community don't think that this is some sort of tempest in a teapot? In fact, why are you even speaking for other members of the Pagan community, either here on this board or in this country? Does being a Pagan means that you automatically have to be hypersensitive to Halloween decorations? Is there some Pagan handbook that I missed with these sorts of rules and regulations?

Frankly, if you are a Pagan and you are offended by this, then you are taking yourself and Paganism waaaay to seriously. This is comparable to fundy Christians getting upset about Santa decorations at Christmas. Fundy Pagans OMG:wow:

[Marrah_G]

66. She is voicing the feelings of many Pagans

I'm waiting to get a little more information before I make any sort of guess as to his motives.

Pagans get hammered from alot of sides. It took 4 years just to get a symbol on miitary plaques like every other minute group. Sometimes people get a little thin skinned.

[MadHound]

89. No, she is purporting to speak for the entire Pagan community, to wit

"To those in the Pagan community. . ."

I'm a member of the Pagan community, and I'm not upset about this, I know many in the Pagan community, and I seriously doubt that they are upset about this.

Rather than being thin skinned and jumping all over the slightest excuse, take the time and look at this effigy. Gee, it has a pointy hat, do members of the Pagan community wear those? Look, the effigy is astride a broom, have you seen that in real life?

It is this sort of hyper sensitive attitude that makes things difficult for others in the Pagan community, it is how the notion that Pagans are a bunch of whiny nutcases gets passed around. Remember, it is coming up on Halloween and images of witches and death and all kinds of phantasmic imagery gets displayed. Take it all in the spirit that it is meant, and don't get all bent out of shape about it.

I would think that it would be obvious that this is directed at neither Pagans nor Hillary(frankly the mask looks a lot like a young Margret Thatcher, but that's just me). But apparently even Pagans are prone to seeing things that simply aren't there.

[Marrah_G]

90. So her wording was a bit off

I doubt she was really trying to speak for the community as a whole but rather relaying the views portrayed on Witch Vox. Shit, we don't ever agree enough to have any one voice as it is. Getting Pagans to Unite under a common voice would be like herding cats. Just like I doubt the hangman's intent had anything to do with Pagans I also think Icy's intent was not to "speak for all Pagans".

I agree it is all in the intent. This doesn't bother me ( unless there was reason to think he was equating witches (the halloween version) with Pagans. I also realize not all see it from my point of view.

More patience and understanding needs to be forth coming from all sides. Mostly patience, IMHO.

[donsu]

34. Hate Crime

nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. What crime is being committed?

[Maine-ah]

41. huh, I wonder what would happen to me

if I did the same thing but with W's face. I imagine someone would come and wisk me away in a black van.

[davsand]

44. How about I hang an effigy of a non-specific Pope or Rabbi....

Would you all (generic) have an issue with THAT?

Oh wait--how about if I hang the effigy of a civil rights worker--would THAT be a problem?

This Massachusetts case presents a scenario is no less offensive than the ones I mentioned above. Because it IS so offensive, I figure it probably needs to be a protected speech, in spite of (or maybe because of) my personal feelings on the subject. The guy has terrible taste and is probably an absolute asswipe. What he did, however should not be illegal.


Yes, I AM a pagan, before anyone asks.



Laura

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. Would I have a problem with it? Yes.

Would it still be legal? Sure.

But I have a problem with it because that would be hate speech.

Now if you could argue that he was specifically trying to disparage wiccans, then you'd have an argument.

[davsand]

50. I can't say I appreciate a lot of the stuff I see and hear in the world.

But I have to agree with you that most of it probably is legally permissible.

As far as I know, nobody has ever managed to come up with a "crimes against taste" statute. If you stop to consider it for a while, that lack of a law is probably not a bad thing. Sure as heck, I'd probably be arrested for being "offensive" to someone when I'm talking about our current regime...

I take the idea of "different strokes for different folks" pretty literally, I guess, because I worked so very hard to come to an understanding of exactly who I am in this life. It isn't for me or anyone else to judge this stuff--no matter how we wish sometimes we could.


Peace!



Laura

[icymist]

48. No there's not the discriminating range existing between Blacks and Wiccians.

Truth is that both groups are a discriminated gathering. This hanging effigy of a witch is no more in emotion (towards the group intended) as any other hanged in effigy. Why should Pagans and witches just stand by and acknowledge this as a prank?

[Marrah_G]

57. It really comes down to intent

Was his intent humor (calling Hillary a witch and hanging her, as in the wicked witch of the west sort)

Was his intent to put up something scary for Halloween?

Or was his intent to intimidate Wiccans/Pagans?

The only Issue I would have would be the last one. I will hold off on any outrage until I have more information.

Our biggest issue is combating not hatred, but rather ignorance. Many people behave offensively without realizing it.

As is with all things.....Look to the Intent. It is always about the Intent.

[Kingshakabobo]

62. Because it was put up as a halloween decoration on his own property?

Context DOES matter.

Are you going to picket the local movie house if they show The Wizard of Oz?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. Except this person wasn't discriminating against wiccians.

Or even wiccans.

"Why should Pagans and witches just stand by and acknowledge this as a prank?"

I agree, they shouldn't. They should realize it's a halloween decoration.

[icymist]

69. How do you know that?

What in this article has shown this to be towards something other than witches? The picture in this article speaks volumes. Witches will be hanged. Halloween decoration or not! Be aware that Halloween or Samhain is one of the witches most sacred holidays. Take care.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

70. Because there isn't any evidence that the person is.

Given that it's halloween season, it's reasonable to assume that it's about traditional witches, and not the new age variety.

"Be aware that Halloween or Samhain is one of the witches most sacred holidays."

Yes. Halloween. The Black Sabbath. When all the witches come out and midnight and dance naked around their cauldron and have an orgy with Satan. Good stuff. Also, bats, spiders, werewolves, zombies, axe-murderers, frankensteins, and so on.

[icymist]

73. Okay. You've really gone way off here.

You have drunk the 'very old' kool-aid here. In continuing in this manner there is no longer any hope for you. Go ahead and believe your superstitions about me and my kind. We now part.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

74. I have no superstitions about you or your kind.

You're simply run of the mill Wiccans.

Completely different than the other variety.

[nickgutierrez]

60. No different from burning the flag, IMO.

You may disagree, but it's absolutely protected speech under the first amendment.

The timing is contrived and silly, and the whole thing seems more than a bit tasteless, but it's protected speech.

[icymist]

63. Bunk! Burning the flag does not a statement make that 'we will hang you'!

Burning the flag is a statement against a government. Hanging an effigy of a group is a statement that harm is intended against that group.

[nickgutierrez]

64. By that logic...

...burning the flag means you intend to set the White House on fire. If the effigy is explicity of Hillary, there's no reason to believe that it's against a group - it's just the usual polarizing kneejerk anti-Hillary bullshit that always comes from the right. I really don't think this clown would be able to spell "wiccan", let alone know what one is.

Hell, I'm an atheist - he'd probably hang one of those in effigy, too, if he thought they really existed. It's still on the edges of protected speech.

[icymist]

67. Weather or not the effigy is Hillary, the point seen by the Pagan Community...

is a witch being hanged as a decoration in a state that has a history of doing this to those suspected of this so-called 'crime'! I and others here at the DU belong to this community. Are you saying that you support the hanging of an effigy of a witch being hanged as decoration in spite of the decries of the group(s) identifying as witches? What's next, after the effigies are gone? The witches themselves?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

72. LOL

"in a state that has a history of doing this to those suspected of this so-called 'crime'!"

:rofl:

[lpbk2713]

75. Oh .... Never mind.

I just thought we were still making threads about Katherine Harris. :eyes:

[mitchtv]

76. I thought Ann Coulter

No but going after a Dem is more fun

[Raine]

77. It's a Halloween decoration ...

geesh now it's not only the fundies with their war on Halloween now it's the pagans too. :eyes: Anymore I dread all holidays cause some group or other takes the fun out of everything. :argh:

Edit: added a word

[gollygee]

78. People can decorate their own yards how they want

People get to decorate their own yards how they want. If they decorate someone else's yard in a way that makes the people who live there feel terrorized, then it might be possible to prove in court that a hate crime has been committed, depending on the specific circumstances.

But I really doubt a witch decoration around Halloween would meet the criteria of a hate crime.

[icymist]

79. Yee Haw! A decoration of Native Americans being hanged and shot

should be just as accepting around Columbus Day! And don't forget the kiddies favorite of having those Native homosexual/cross-dressing so-called people being torn apart by wild dogs. Good family matinee. How's that for a yard decoration? That's what we all get if this precedent is allowed.

[gollygee]

81. When somebody does that, let me know

[icymist]

82. Oh lovely! It's okay for somebody to do that to me, huh?

Go on and show everyone how kind you are.

[gollygee]

83. Not in your yard. But yeah, they can hang it in their own yard

you were talking about images of people being torn apart and it's possible, depending on how gory that got, it might be considered obscene or something, but people can put up decorations in their own yards that other people don't like. Even if they are offensive. I've seen houses with lawn jockeys and I think poorly of people who would use a decoration like that, but they have the right regardless of my opinion about it.

[onenote]

84. we put up this "crashing witch" decoration. Is it a hate crime?

[icymist]

86. That's not a hate crime, just poor navigation.

eom

[Marrah_G]

88. I find that one very funny

Generally when I see that I know the persons intent is not in any way directed towards me. I might dislike why we became portrayed like that and I may wish it will change. But I acknowledge that the person isn't seeking to harm or offend and more then likely either doesn't know what Wicca/Paganism is or does not equate it with the Halloween version of a witch.

It's hard not to get upset sometimes. We get pretty shit on in a very publically acceptable way throughout the country. It takes a pretty thick skin not to drive yourself nuts hunting down every offense.

This is one reason I refer to myself as only a Wiccan in public. I use the term witch only if I am among friends.

[onenote]

85. delete dupe

Don't know how/why this posted twice.

[lpbk2713]

87. Deleted also.

Cast into the non sequitur repository.

[Beelzebud]

91. Prepare for battle. I consider this The War On Halloween!

:D

[Marrah_G]

92. Bah they've had that for years

Banning trick o treating... making kids go to church in angel costumes for healthy snacks.

Screw that thank you very much. I will stick with spooky ghosts and GOBLINS! Cider and candy, colored leaves blowing around ona crisp autumn wind. Little kids in scary costumes and parent smiling and waving even though I am in my ceremonial robes.

I love Halloween. It always puts a smile on my face and a mellowness in my heart before I head off to celebrate Samhain later in the evening.

[Beelzebud]

93. I've always loved Halloween too. It's my favorite time of the year.