I think the battles on DU are healthy and represent Democracy in Action!

[RiverStone]

There have been numerous posts recently suggesting concern regarding the tenor, mood, or critical nature of DU. With a lot of the concern stemming from criticism directed to the party at large or Dems on The Hill.

On the contrary, I see the battles as democracy in action. I see the fight defining the heart and soul of the Party. I see the passion as driven by a deep disappointment in the actions (or non-actions) of Dems elected on an anti-war platform in 06. There are within the rank and file, those that enable the war to continue and those that propose solutions to end it. Yet our big BLUE tent holds more than just an anti-war view, we hold on to the values of Choice, environmental protection, equal rights and equal opportunity for all, we hold dear the First Amendment.

I don't think DU is in trouble; though I do think our party may be in trouble if the lines between what defines a Democrat and a rethug continues to blur. Is that heresy? No, thats what one calls a vote of 92-3 to give Shrub another 150 billion for his reckless war of aggression in Iraq.

We are independent thinkers, though when the dust settles after the Democratic Convention in Denver next summer - we will close ranks to defeat Rudy, Mitt, or Fred. I have no doubts there...

When we look directly into the eyes of our opponent; an opponent who will take away more personal liberties with just one more conservative appointment on the SCOTUS ---- when we ALL face a common enemy - we will come together!

In the mean time, I see that on balance - our conflict on DU is not only healthy; but a needed part of the growing pains we need to go through as we look to defining what we stand for in 2008.

I'll be standing and voting with the Democrats in 08, and I know most of you will be too! :kick:



peace~:)
RiverStone

[FiveGoodMen]

1. K&R

[Breeze54]

2. Well said and great observations!

I see the discussions, flames, anger, and apologies as growth and learning.

One side trying to teach the other side why one thing is important or not

and why it is germane to what ever the topic or issue is about.

Everyone trying to explain why even the littlest detail is very important.

It's a way of thinking that is at the core of Democratic principles.

"All for one and one for all", "commonwealth" and when others don't get that,

emotions rise, IMHO. I also think we have newbies that didn't experience the

liberal Dem party, back when it was and so they have no gauge to see why the

BB's can get so upset about the IWR vote and the new IWR votes and OIF.

But I think all in all, the discourse IS to move towards better understanding.

:kick: & Recommended

[iamahaingttta]

3. I agree with you!

Democracy has NEVER been pretty. Nobody is ever completely satisfied, in the end. And that's the way it has to be...

[stillcool]

4. I see delusion...

willful ignorance, and self-righteous arrogance, and the never-ending urge to blame anybody, somebody..along with the incessant parroting of talking heads. It's not about debate, it's certainly not about truth,..it seems to be all about hate, and disrespect for human beings..whose perceptions do not jive with their own.

[RiverStone]

7. Maybe DU is not for you....

At the moment anyway.

You said: ...it seems to be all about hate, and disrespect for human beings..whose perceptions do not jive with their own.

DU is a place of divergent views and some folks can turn into shit-for-brains when emotion gets the best of them, but I do think a common thread that runs through DUers is a sense of justice and fairness and compassion.

If this place feels so hate filled to you, then why subject yourself to it?

I don't see the hate at all, though I DO SEE lots of frustration. Frustrations can move things to change - hate offers nothing in the way of change.

Either way, best wishes.



peace~ :)

[stillcool]

10. Is my leaving

required, as a result of my choice to voice an opinion regarding the despair I feel when I see a barrage of rabid, demeaning, illogical responses to another person's thought? Is my leaving required when my own thought does not jive with the beliefs of others? Is there no way that communication can be restored to an exchange of ideas sans the hatred? Do you believe that I am not worthy of commenting? Do you think I am alone in my perceptions?

[RiverStone]

16. not required at all...

I asked you a question - I did not make a demand nor have any expectations which "require" anything.

There are many ways that communication can happen even with beliefs that don't jive; in fact, it happens all the time.

From your original post stillcool, it seemed that DU (for you) was such a hate-filled place that I wondered why you chose to stay? It was not a challenge or a request; just a question.

You are indeed worthy of communicating!

And if you chose to stay, I hope you find that in the mix - there is a bounty of good will, great ideas, and compassion for fellow travelers both on DU and out there.



peace~:)

[stillcool]

20. Funny how things stick with me..

being an orphan and having been raised in families not my own...I have been hearing the phrase.."If you don't like it here, why don't you leave?" for as far back as I can remember...kind of hard to do when you're four. I suppose...'if you don't like it here why do you stay'...has a completely different connotation, and I have totally misinterpreted the meaning or the intent. My comment was not a declaration on the value of DU nor the learning experience it has provided me, but rather my opinion on what I perceive as an up-tick in mean-spirited, inane, reactionary posts that provoke anger. Peace.

[tom_paine]

9. You are forcing me to quote Sam Adams here:

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
-- Samuel Adams

Apologies if that offends, I don't mean it literally, but to be truthful, not that far from it.

And if you cannot notice how the LBN Forums and all the topic forums are fonts of information that will often leave you so aware of current events that you will tell people about shit so far in advance that when the braindead MSM finally tells them a tiny piece of the story, they won't even remember you brought it up to them in the first place, it was so long ago...if you cannot notice THAT (and also the ignore function and the hide thread function, which are quite helpful in making the unpleasant disappear from DU if you wish it) then I don't know what to tell you.

Yeah flames get annoying, but you can hide threads and ignore. And the positive aspects of DU, especially the informational aspects, far outweigh the negatives, IMHO.

[stillcool]

11. If I can not see?

DU has offered me the most valuable learning opportunity I have ever experienced in my life. Unfortunately that does not negate my reaction to vile responses that as far as I can see, only serve the purpose of demeaning and negating another person's view. As far as ignoring threads, I'm not yet learned enough to presuppose all thread content by their title. So sorry if I offended you with my opinion of what I perceive. I'll make sure I do not do that to you again.

[tom_paine]

14. That wasn't my point at all. Please hear what I have to say.

You said:

So sorry if I offended you with my opinion of what I perceive. I'll make sure I do not do that to you again.

My point was exactly the OPPOSITE. Hell no, don't stop "offending me"! I am not offended. Not in the least. The only thing that offends me here at DU, other than raw Bushevism & regurgitated Limboreillannitycoulter Lies, is people who don't debate but only rip others with personal attacks.

Basically the same thing you were pissed off about in the first place, so we do agree on that.

I didn't mean to personally attack you and I am sorry if you perceived it that way. Anyway, the ignore and hide thread functions work in response to your seeing something, the preemption comes afterwards and you don't even notice it.

So, when you see people who are only repeat flamers and you've had enough, click ignore. When you stray into a tread that is full of flamebait bullshit, hide it. Sure you'll always have the memories, but these functions, ESPECIALLY ignore, pay dividends well into the future.

Anyway, I am sorry we got off on the wrong foot. It is probably my fault for using that Sam Adams quote, which is a bit too personal in making it's point, and for phrasing my 'graph with "if you can't see..." which I can see how it could piss you off.

Peace?

[stillcool]

15. absolutely..

I have read your posts, and have learned from you...while I do use the ignore function..I do it reluctantly. There are so many times I have misunderstood, and been the same...and I tend to remember the lessons not easily learned. It seems to me DU goes through cycles of exacerbating posters, or perhaps I go through cycles of knee-jerk reactions, and intolerance. In any case...no biggie, but thanks for the reply. It means alot.. :hi:

[Richard Steele]

5. Totalitarianism is "orderly", Representative Democracy is loud and messy. K&R

[philly_bob]

6. Yeah, look what happened to Republicans when they stopped squabbling...

They gained power through monolithic unanimity and iron party discipline -- but they lost their soul and their connection to the founding American traditions. Taken over by the least desirable elements.

Let's keep squabbling.

P.S. Me for Gore/Kucinich.

[tom_paine]

8. K & R

[mmonk]

12. Thanks RiverStone.

Indeed, I don't view it as a problem either, but conversely, a sign of health.

[RiverStone]

18. your welcome!

I'm an optimist by nature, and see silver lining in most difficult things. I have only been a DUer for a year and a half --- but I really sense that as we fine tune what our party does or should stand for, the battles here will only better prepare us for the General.

Back to silver lining, the ONLY silver I can find from having such a corrupt administration in power is that BushCo's legacy may mean the rethugs will NEVER hold such power again; we just may be in for a long, long run of Democratic control. That happens, my children will grow to actually see a America that truly is a place of compassion and freedom for all.


BTW, cute puppy! :hi:

[mmonk]

19. Thanks.

That's George (no relation to you know who). He passed away in February the night before I attended a fund raiser Stephanie Miller held for an animal rescue shelter. I miss him.

[EFerrari]

13. Our DU democracy just happens to be a little hyper.

lol

:)

[Annces]

17. I agree

On DU, you can say what you want without any fear of reprisal, such as you can get in a workplace meeting, or a family meeting or even a heated discussion with a friend. And so it promotes more openness.