The price of vice increases in Venezuela

[ButterflyBlood]

Source: CNN

The price of sin rose Monday in Venezuela where President Hugo Chavez is on a campaign to make Venezuelans cut back on drinking and smoking.

"Everyone's shocked," said Leonora Marino, owner of Bodegon Marino in Valencia, Venezuela, west of Caracas.

<...>

Chavez has described whisky as a drink for rich people, not for revolutionaries.

"We cannot be spending the international reserves of this country on whiskey," he said.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/10/15/venezuela.sin.tax/

---

OK, whiskey is a drink for rich people, not "revolutionaries"? Chavez is being ridiculous. Here's one reason for the religious right to like him though, and one less reason for him to be supported by any "progressive", unless we're not really talking about "progressives" and actually left wing control freaks.

[tabasco]

1. Vital social issues and stuff.

Who gives a shit? Don't we have enough problems here to worry about? I'm amazed at the obsession with everything Chavez. He tries to get people to drink and smoke less and is called ridiculous. You actually sound ridiculous with your spinning. So does CNN.

[ButterflyBlood]

2. It IS ridiculous

It's just as ridiculous when religious right fundies push for this social modification crap here.

[John Q. Citizen]

7. Ever been to Canada?

[movonne]

15. I sure agree with you on this...it is ridiculous spinning and many

of our dems fall for it...let him run his country and we will try and get ours back..

[struggle4progress]

45. Today, Venezuela; tomorrow, a wave of sobriety sweeps across Latin America. What then?

[Flabbergasted]

3. We do the same thing here.

I'm not a fan of his though.

[ButterflyBlood]

5. Yeah, we have taxes

But we don't deliberately jack them up as part of some social engineering. And the people who push for that are fundie nutjobs.

Can you imagine how laughed at an American politician would be if he proposed increasing taxes on whiskey because "it's a drink for rich people, not revolutionaries"?

[Flabbergasted]

8. We have deliberately raised taxes on cigs to cut consumption. nt

[Flabbergasted]

9. Dupe

[SyntaxError]

31. I always thought cig taxes were meant to social engineer us not to smoke...

[Peace Patriot]

39. I think you miss the import of the line, ButterflyBlood. It is considered admirable,

in Venezuela, to be a "revolutionary"--that is, someone who supports social justice, the use of a country's resources to benefit the people who live there, maximum participation by the people in politics and government, including participation of previously excluded, unserved groups--like the vast the poor population, the indigenous and other minorities--government spending on schools, literacy programs, medical clinics and other services, and creation of a healthy, literate, educated, creative, optimistic, upwardly mobile work force for the benefit of the whole society. This is what "revolutionary" means in Venezuela. It is revolutionary because it has never been done before, in Venezuela, or in South America. The rich and global corporate predators have sucked up all the wealth. So, when Chavez says that whiskey is a "drink for rich people, not revolutionaries," he is attempting to place a stigma on destructive drinking and luxury alcohol, that most Venezuelans will understand as a positive statement. If you want to contribute to creating a better society (i.e., if you want to be a "revolutionary"), control your alcohol use, especially luxury alcohols, use your money for a better purpose, and support high taxes on such luxury items (which every civilized country in the world imposes--they are huge in Scandinavia, for instance, which uses them for support of education and the arts). Elsewhere in the article he mentions vehicle accidents and spousal abuse as further impacts of heavy drinking, and his proposed laws also forbid liquor licenses in the school zones (which you deny, further down in this thread--you say the proposed laws do not do this, but in fact they DO; did you read your own posted article?).

I would be floored if a U.S. politician asked people to be "revolutionaries"--even though we are, theoretically, a revolutionary country. I would further be surprised to hear U.S. politician ask ANYTHING of Americans, by way of becoming better citizens, less egocentric, less self-indulgent, and more socially responsible. We have this great resource--the wonderful people of this country, who so need and want to be helpful, to solve problems of war and environmental devastation, and who are ignored, and pandered to, and lied to, and disdained and disenfranchised, at every turn. It would be WONDERFUL if our leaders called upon us to be "revolutionaries" again--to "ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country"--to work for the common good, to pull together, to give up egotistical luxury, to share, to be compassionate. Why do you sneer at this? Why do you call it ridiculous?

[John Q. Citizen]

4. Bill Clinton was another Chavez. He kept canibus illegal driving the price sky high!

And the Dems, like Obama, are raising cigarette taxes to pay for SCHIP. They are all a bunch of Chavez wanna bes, and one less reason for them to be supported by any "progressive", unless we're not really talking about "progressives" and actually left wing control freaks.

You are so right, Butterflyblood!

Or maybe not.

[olddad56]

28. did you vote for Bush?

[John Q. Citizen]

30. Heavens no! I was just using the same silly argument the OP was,

except instead of applying that argument to Chavez, as the OP did, I applied it to the Dems, and specifically Obama.

In fact, I used the exact same words the OP did, except I changed Chavez for Obama and the Dems.

See, I'm in favor of CHIP, and if you have to raise taxes on tobbacco to fund it, oh well. It's economics

So Chavez raising taxes on tobbaco, I didn't find too evil either. He wanted to keep more foriegn reserves in country. It was economics.

It would be silly if it were evil for Chavez, but not for Obama, see?


of course, I would prefer if the Dems cut occupation funding to pay for CHIP. But since they aren't going to do that, raising taxes on tobacco is OK. It doesn't make them authoritarian leftists anymore than it make Chavez an authoritarian leftist.

Do we have that straight?

Or do you just hate Chavez (like bush does) and want to make up any lame excuse to bash him (like bush does)

sometimes it's hard to tell what's going on here :)

[sasquatch]

6. Moonshine is more of a revolutionaries drink

Just my $.02

[ohio2007]

35. buck eye 2nd that potion .....err I mean, I 2nd that motion nt

[sasquatch]

42. That's a good thing about living near a heavily Appalachian population

[dipsydoodle]

10. Tax and duty on alcohol and tobacco

has been punitive in the UK in living memory - so what's new ? The tax levels quoted on tobacco imports are far lower than the UK's.

So what's significant about Venezuela ? You're clutching at straws - why so ?

In other news I've got a cold.

[ngant17]

11. The US went thru its prohibition period

so I think we should at least let Chavez play this one out to see how far it goes. Who are we to judge?

Sure, he is sounding a little like some of the Temperance activists and Prohibitionists of our earlier era, i.e., Carrie Nation and the National Woman's Christian Temperance Union (WCTU by the way was also involved with issues ranging from health and hygiene, prison reform, and world peace), so these were were honorable people and worthwhile social reform movements, let we forget. BTW George Bernard Shaw and Susan B. Anthony were also teetotallers and activists against the consumption of alcohol.

Hopefully no one should attack Chavez for being lax on the problems of drug abuse, poverty and associated ills in his country.

OTOH I think that alcohol may have some medicinal value for poor people who can not afford medical care and they need some serious pain suppressant. However, this is the USA not Venezuela, and socialized health care is verboten here, but in Venezuela the poor do actually have a working national health care system under Chavez so they would have access to legitimate pain killers when they have a demonstratable medical need from that.

Chavez is trying to build a fundamentally new kind of society and he is light-years ahead of most politicians in the USA. More power to him.

[ButterflyBlood]

16. Yeah, the US had Prohibition 70 years ago

and I don't think anyone would defend it today. It's a bad idea and Venezuela should hardly go down the same path.

[Flanker]

18. Prohibition? did you read your own article?

nm

[ButterflyBlood]

21. I know it doesn't involve Prohibition, but that's what the poster is talking about

The argument is basically "Hey, the US tried Prohibition once, why can't Venezuela try crippling regulations on alcohol?"

[Flanker]

22. So now regulations are bad as well?

I mean afterall it is the slippery slop to prohibition...

[ButterflyBlood]

29. These type of regulations are

and the poster didn't even seem to be denying that. Hell the post could be read as a backhanded endorsement of prohibition.

It's obvious that this isn't aimed at limiting childrens' access to alcohol or keeping drunks out of public, etc. but at limiting the amount people drink, that type of social engineering.

[ngant17]

37. Prohibition seems to be working in most Arab countries

so really I suppose from the Muslim point of view, it was a 'noble cause' for the US to have tried to abolish the vices of liquor 70 years ago.

Personally, I am a pragmatist and I know that it is essentially impossible to eradicate alcohol consumption in Western society, and it is too easy to make moonshine anyway, but I would support anyone who wants to steer a society away from a culture based on alcohol consumption and also to help educate about drug addiction, which includes alcohol. Cigarettes, a nasty habit, too. Maybe I could tolerate cigars which is natural tobacco, but definitely I think cigarretes should be taxed heavily.

[SyntaxError]

32. It's their choice though...

If he pushes more things and the people of the country do no like it then they will make their voice heard. If he starts killing people for speaking up then there is more room to call him what he may or may not be. Ultimately it's up the people of that country to decide if they like it or not.

Although, I don't like the the way some people think that us Americans don't have any right to discuss other countries affairs because it has nothing to do with us, but it's perfectly for non-americans to comment on US domestic policy.

[Judi Lynn]

33. Some people might say there's a difference, because when people in other countries

disagree with the way things are being done here, they don't start trying to destabilize this country, with the goal in mind of overthrowing it, one way or another.

You would be doing yourself a world of good to take some time out and start getting acquainted with U.S. history in foreign "policy."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_history_events

History of U.S. Interventions in Latin America

http://www2.truman.edu/~marc/resources/interventions.html

[lvx35]

12. Oh jesus no! He's taxing alcohol, cigaretts and Hummers?!?!?

The horror! Its not like we Americans would ever do such things!

Seriously, our country is advocating torture, occupying another country against its will, and talking about pre-emptive nuclear strikes on a country that hasn't attacked us, and here is yet another post telling us about to tremble in fear before the man who has taxed vice and started a public health campaign.

[Turbineguy]

13. They are spending

their entire national reserve on whiskey?

Maybe they should start smoking crack instead.

[Flanker]

14. It did not say entire.

But 10% of all exports from the UK nevertheless.

[Judi Lynn]

17. The SF poster is absolutely right: you can count upon at least a couple of these stink bombs

every week. They crank them out like sausage.

Pathetic drivel.

[EFerrari]

44. I'm bookmarking this as #1 for our new thread

"The Week In Propaganda"

:crazy:

[Bacchus39]

19. aguardiente is a more appropriate drink for revolutionaries

or how about a Cuba libre??

[SpikeTss]

20. Very entertaining

The strategy of people who write (and often also of those who post) those
articles is very simple: "Through as many false accusations at an political
opponent, no matter how silly or far-fetched they might be. Some of it will
stay on people's minds and affect their judgment regarding the 'enemy'".

It's funny to watch people try it in vain and make fools of themselves.

Everyone can see, how absurdly selective the reporting about Venezuela is.
Our 'free' press is as free as the propaganda outlets in the USSR. With one
decisive difference: People here in our system actually believe the
propaganda nonsense the mass media feeds them. The people in the USSR and
other parts of the Soviet block were much better educated than the average
US citizen today, so they knew that their media are feeding them lies.

I only wish people in Western societies would as clever as people from the East.

[rinsd]

23. LOL, Chavez is looking to help prop up Cuba!

Taxes on whiskey, brandy, cognac and other drinks that don't come from cane sugar have been raised $1.79 (3,838 bolivares) per liter, the government-run Bolivarian News Agency said.

[John Q. Citizen]

40. And Puerto Rico, Brazil, Jamaica, Barabdos, Hawaii, Mexico,.....

[mikeytherat]

24. "Liquor is the opiate of the bourgeoisie oppressor.

In the glorious worker robot paradise, there will be no alcohol. Only efficient synthetic fuels."

"No liquor? Dasvidanya, comrade."

mikey_the_rat

[Dancing_Dave]

25. He did confess to drinking to much coffee himself!

And that explains a few a things. Like, we haven't had President who so believed in the power of democratic leadership to progressively change society since Jack "morning coffee and newspaper man" Kennedy.

Of course, the Kennedy's did believe in importing whiskey from Canada back when it was illegal to produce it in the United States. An allied country right next door...just like rum producing Cuba is from Venezuela.

[Judi Lynn]

26. This story was covered back on October 2. There was a thread posted at that time.

Thankfully_in_Britain (1000+ posts)___________________________ Tue Oct-02-07 02:43 AM
Original message
Chavez calls time on whisky boom
Source: BBC

Venezuelans are to face a limit on the amount of luxury goods they can import, says President Hugo Chavez.

He singled out the high consumption of whisky as an example of the way consumerism was harming society.

In 2006, Venezuelans drank 106m bottles of Scotch whisky - almost four per person, and nearly 10% of UK exports.

Mr Chavez said he was ashamed of this "excessive" consumption and would curb importers' access to dollars for purchasing whisky and other luxuries.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7021870.stm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3013625

[slackmaster]

27. This will lead to his downfall

Never mess with a person's right to drink or smoke.

[ohio2007]

36. whats next ? A refer madness tax ?

ya never know

[ohio2007]

34. CNN is a week late covering the story

I saw this one last week and posted it somewhere in a Hugo thread.
Could this lead to a cottage industy developing around a moonshine still?
Since 'panther piss can't be considered ;
a drink for rich people, not for revolutionaries.


Viva Jose Cuervo

[EFerrari]

38. The religious right doesn't like him because he's writing gay rights

into the constitution.

Oh, man. We're better readers than this, surely

[ohio2007]

41. Wonder what Iran thinks of that

As long as Iran gets subsidized gas...guess it doesn't matter what the supplier does to gays in his own country ;)

[EFerrari]

43. That may well be true.

[Socal31]

46. Woohoo!

More government intervention! Its like the repubs saying we shouldnt have sex toys in the bedroom. MYOFB!

[UGADUer]

47. CNN Reports THIS?

How do they pick their stories? Drunk monkeys?

[tom_paine]

48. Wow. Chavez IS Bushler. Same tyrant, different flavors.

At least Chavez does some stuff for his people, unlike Bush who steals everything that isn;t nailed down.

Just curious, I wonder how much whiskey Chavez drink and how many cigarettes he smokes.

Quite of bit of one or both, I imagine.

Tyrants. Left Wing, Right Wing, Chavez, Bushler, fuck 'em all!