I sometimes have to wonder about the protest of privacy

[question everything]

Millions are going around chatting on their cell phones for the world to hear. Millions post personal information on Internet message boards and blogs, on Facebook, personal videos on YouTube.. So why being so concerned about the government listening in?

Of course, many of us, the dinosaurs, do appreciate our privacy but it appears that we are getting to be in the minority.

Or is it a matter of differentiating between one volunteering personal info and an outsider seeking one, in the sly?

[SergeyDovlatov]

1. Depending on who controlling the government

they can abuse the information badly.

For example, collecting race information during census allowed FDR to round up Japaneese and send them to internment camps.
Without census collecting that it would be much much harder.

[lvx35]

2. Yeah, its about volunteering it.

The problem is really in the idea of "the government" listening in. This implies oversite and sanity and detachment when is no such thing: who listens is a person just like you or me. A good example for me is phone sex, which I sometimes like to have. What you end up with is a threesome, without choosing it...I mean its easy to say "the government wouldn't care" but I know I would get hot and bothered listening to good phone sex, and if there is an increased chance of the government NOT listening when it gets sexual, you can bet every foreign intelligence service uses phone sex to relay information, so the government surely does...Which is to say that JOE SMITH (or whoever) surely does.

That's the thing, when you say "I don't care if the government goes through my shit" what you are saying is "I don't care if YOU go through my shit" but you DO care if I go through you shit. If you don't, then go ahead and send me pictures of you nude and the contents of your hard drive or recordings of your phone conversations, I'd like to hear. The illusion is that I am not the government, the government is somehow "safer". But I am the government, its we the people, its people exactly like me or you.

Once people understand that they tend to understand privacy concerns a little better.

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. I value my privacy

but then, I also am a dinosaur.

I don't own a cell phone. I never buy anything online. The only information I give out in chats is anonymous (or reasonably so) and may not be true anyway. I don't use my SSN as a personal identifier.

Oh, yes, I am also paranoid. Two weeks after the big anti-war protest before the Iraq invasion (where I made rude gestures at the guy in the dark suit taking pictures) somebody got into my apartment - I know this because there were unusual scratches on the door lock, and my phone was broken like someone had tried to twist it apart - it was a kind of clamshell design that had a tiny latch which opened it, and it could only be broken in that way by trying to unscrew the two halves. For the next six months, everytime I talked on the phone I ended the conversation with "Fuck you, John Ashcroft".

Yeah. I'm paranoid. And I value my privacy.

[lvx35]

5. Yeah, they've broken into my house too.

Why wouldn't they? Its completely legal and they don't need a warrant...Its not paranoia, its reality.

Its hilarious to me to that it happened after you flipped them off, because it happened to me after I did similar deeds. First of all, I would like to salute you for your courage and patriotism, and tell you that I respect you for the way you have suffered for your country. Secondly, isn't it something that they actually are so petty to investigate people punitively? I fear for this country, because if the intelligence apparatus is populated with such complete tools, we are in big trouble!!!! :P

[Mythsaje]

6. I guarantee they've never broken into MY house.

:evilgrin:

[lvx35]

7. Uh oh, now what's THAT about???

I don't know that devlish grin...:dilemma:

[Mythsaje]

9. Let's just say

that if someone broke into my house, I would know about it.

[lvx35]

12. Kick ass, Mythsaje.

Stay secure. :)

[question everything]

8. This is scary

Which is why I don't put in an email or say on the phone what I don't like to be returned to me.

This is especially true while at work. I am always amazed at people using company computers to visit porn sites on the Internet. Or gossiping in email, or even send dirty jokes.

[lvx35]

14. But you're missing all the FUN, Q.E.!!!

Not looking at porn at work bars you from a world of opportunity. Of course, you'd think that it would be an extremely risky activity that could cost you your job, but generally this is only true if you're a teacher or pediatrician or something. In your average conservative company, when you are caught the conversation goes something like this:

Boss: I can't believe what I saw today when I looked at your surfing history today, Joe. Hotsexqueens.com? How could this be. And I thought you were such a good employee...
You: I am boss, it was just...maybe a virus?
Boss: Cut the crap, we have that it all recorded. You were looking at porn on the clock. I thought you were such a good employee, I thought you cared about this company...
You: I do sir! I do!
Boss: Is that the truth? Hmm. I'm gonna be frank here, I like the stuff too. It turns me on. Hell, I could tell you about my trip to the Dominican Republic, girls who would do ANYTHING. I speak from experience.
You: Really?
Boss: Hell yes. Wild shit. But that's me, what we have here is a violation of company policy. Company policy says we have to fire you, tell all the other employees, and make a press release.
You: No sir! Don't do that!
Boss: I don't want to, but that's what I'm suppose to do... Listen, do you REALLY love this company?
You: Yes sir!
Boss: Then maybe we can look beyond. Maybe I can turn the other cheek here. But I'm putting your ass on the line here, do you UNDERSTAND? And what I want is for you to put your ass on the line, and be willing to look the other way for ME.
You. Yes sir, no problem! Anything!
Boss: Good, you just have to do me a few favors you don't talk about, and we'll talk about that paid vacation to the Dominican Republic you will earn!
You: Yes sir!

That's how real company assets are made, that's how you get "in". Next thing you know, you're a Republican congressman. And if you never looked at porn at work, you'd still be stagnating in that job in accounting!

[Lasher]

4. It's a matter of voluntary/involuntary

If I want you to know the names of all the people I called last month I can tell you. Or not. But I don't want anyone collecting that information without my permission or knowledge.

[Jeroen]

10. Because we don't know and control what governments do with information obtained by listing in

How do operatives inside the government interpret this information?
Do they change and manipulate it? How do they combine it with other information?
Will they use it against you one day?

Without Habeas Corpus this has the potential to become a personal nightmare for many.

[rucky]

11. They want it both ways...

they like good publicity, but cry "privacy" when anybody makes snarky comments about their MySpace page.

[SoCalDem]

13. Privacy is a "quaint" remnant from the past.

Anyone alive today who has ever rented a video, gone to school, seen a doctor, driven a car (legally), had a job, gotten married, had a credit card..and any number of other things, has long ago given up privacy..

They must FEEL like they still have it, or want it, so that they can never realize that without a dead-on way to prove who exactly you are, universal health care is an impossibility... so to the government, the constant riling up of the public, about their "privacy" is a great deal for them.. They get to spend all the money we send them... and then some, and for it, we get bupkis...but we "think" we are holding onto our privacy :)

[Raejeanowl]

15. Very Astute Observation

I think your last comment nails it: The difference between making your own decision (however casual and ill-considered) about what to share, what's important and what's not, and a potentially threatening stranger surreptitiously fishing for damaging information to use against you.

Although that doesn't pre-empt the airhead from publicly blathering or bragging, the same airhead who's then completely shocked to learn it was noticed and came back to bite them.

[Bright Eyes]

16. It's about the expectation of privacy.

Like mail, or private phone conversations in your home. If you post something on a internet message board or talk loudly on a cell phone in the middle of a busy sidewalk, you have no expectation of privacy.