What's this about Ellen DeGeneres and a dog?

[CatWoman]

:shrug:

[Rosemary2205]

1. I think they attacked Randi Rhodes but I'm not sure.

Something about Ellen adopting a dog and giving it to a family and the humane society went and took the dog back from those little kids (I heard Ellen crying on the radio this morning).

[question everything]

54. Not the Humane Society

which would be happy for any adoption, but, apparently, an uppity agency in Pasadena called "Mutts and Moms."

From the story

Baktis was able to claim the dog "technically" still belonged to her because her name alone was on the pet identification microchip implanted under the dog's skin, DeGeneres said. She said Baktis had failed to add DeGeneres' name to the chip, as promised, at the time of adoption.

She also said that contrary to the agency's stated rules, DeGeneres was never asked to fill out an application, nor was any inspection of her home conducted before she took possession of the puppy last month.

======

I hope that their supporters will run them out of business.

[AlCzervik]

2. she had a dog, dog didn't get along with her cats, she gave the dog to a friend

and the shelter she got it from said she couldn't do that so they took the dog back and re adopted it out to someone else. I'm sure there's more but those are the cliff notes.

[MadMaddie]

That about sums it up....

The thing is Ellen took great care of the dog, she spent $3,000.00 for the health of the dog...so this is where I would have the problem.

They could have had someone horrible but they didn't. She made a mistake but they could have made a better decision.

[MonkeyFunk]

3. I haven't read

that the dog's been adopted out to anybody else.

[mondo joe]

6. Keith just reported it. NT

[Warpy]

4. Right, and the shelter is apparently a pickle faced "rules are rules"

type of place that didn't evaluate the home the dog had and just grabbed it back because the rules had been violated.

So there are crying kids who bonded with the dog and a very confused dog who doesn't know who the hell he belongs to any more and a very smug bureaucrat.

[Lex]

8. And the agency doesn't *ever* let families with kids adopt their pets

unless the kids are OVER 14 years old.

Which is nuts.

Oops--edited to OVER (not under)

[AlCzervik]

11. wow for real? 14? thats a tad extreme and i would like to know when and why

that age was picked.

[mondo joe]

12. This is a real case of good intenions getting in the way of good outcomes.

I think the shelter's age limit is too extreme, but I also feel like it's their call.

Just the same, what happened happened. If Ellen just had an unaltered dog dropping puppies every few months she could give them to anyone she wanted. Or, for that matter, she could have subjected the adopted dog to a miserable life, but still have been in the limits of the contract.

[Warpy]

53. Heh, I ran into one of those

when I adopted my old slob of a tomcat. She said somebody else had a hold on him, but she'd let me say hello to him anyway.

He fell asleep in my lap while she explained shelter rules to me. She put her hands on him to put him back in the cage and he GROWLED at her.

She said, "are you prepared to take him NOW?"

The old boy lived with me for nearly 14 years and died last year at the ripe old age of 17. He was a real character and I miss him.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

17. Anyone who's dealt with the type knows it well. Especially in the "are you good enough for pet"

animal shelters.

We had very good friends who were turned down for a dog because they mentioned that they'd like a watchdog.

They had recently moved into this house,(with a huge yard, perfect for a dog) and then had a break in in the middle of night, awakening to the intruder in their house, they had just moved from a rental unit and were already planning to get a dog, the break in just really motivated them.

I am STILL pissed about this and it happened over ten years ago.

They eventually had someone who had extra puppies give them one and then they acquired another dog and, of course, the dogs are loved and happy. They were humiliated for no f***ing reason and kept a dog from being adopted to a wonderful home.


:mad:

MKJ

[Links]

65. Talking about not following the Rules!

This case should have never been handled in this manner. Had it been handled properly, there would not have been this firestorm of controversary over who is responsible!

Once possession has been transferred, breach of a contract is determined in a court of law, not by cops on the beat!

The mutt got screwed, Ellen got screwed, and the kid got screwed. Our judicial system just seems to be filling up with illegal, and un-necessary what-if prosecutions; a lot of which unfortunately evolve from legally un-enforceable contract language written to satisfy personal wishes, which in fact are in direct contradiction with the laws of the land. It seems that many think that just because they want it a certain way, that it is enforceable if someone agrees to it in writing... NOT SO FAST! Contract language must be legally enforceable, and therefore must be shown to be reasonable and within the purview of the courts. I want to say that over 90% of the online contracts I've seen written by armatures ( most on eBay ) are unenforceable under the existing state laws in which they would apply.

Example, many eBay sellers include a statement like " Once the item is shipped, we will not be responsible for lost or undeliverable items. In fact, all state consumer protection laws require the seller to deliver the product in the condition in which it was advertised.. In other words, a seller can not simply absolve themselves of the liability to deliver the product, simply by making a statement to that effect! Similarly, when one is in breach of contract, it becomes a matter for the courts, not the police!

I think Ellen has a case against the Muttering Mom, and should go for the jugular! Make her bleed the green blood that many business owners have come to understand..

Where will it all end! I suggest a Revolution against petty prosecutions!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

9. Yours are so much better than mine.

You have a knack. :-) MKJ

[Mojambo]

5. I think her name was Anne Heche actually...

:evilgrin:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

7. It comes down to Ellen Degeneres gave a shelter dog to her hairdresser's kids, because

after having it for four months, it wasn't getting along with her cats...


Soooo, the shelter then took the dog from Mom and kids because they have contract which says you can't give the animal to someone else without their approval, which Ellen? Portia? signed. Plus, the kids were too young, they won't adopt to households with children under 14.

Annnnyway, The kids were upset when the dog was taken away and Ellen cried about it on her show.

That's the foundation, I'm sure their's all kinds of gossipy details out there.

Does that help? :toast: MKJ

[CatWoman]

13. I think I would have done the same thing Ellen did

:hi:

thanks

[ronnykmarshall]

10. Dogs drool

Cats RULE!!!

[CatWoman]

19. Ellen tried to get S-CHIP for the dog

:hi:

[Generator]

14. It tasted just like chicken

she had no way of knowing.

[tammywammy]

16. ....

bwahahahaha
:rofl:

[EFerrari]

15. It was a rescue group and every rescue group I've ever heard of

has the same clause in their contract about not giving the animal away to a third party.

As for the kid thing, in general, rescue groups aren't crazy about adopting out to family with small kids because accidents can happen to the kids or to the animal. It's not discrimination as it is a safety issue.

I've no clue why or if this group stipulated 14 years.

Everybody could have handled this a little better. :(

[MonkeyFunk]

22. The kids are 11 and 12

they're not "small kids".

No matter, though. The agency has permanently bought themselves a worldful of hurt by their stupid actions.

[EFerrari]

23. It's not stupid to expect people to keep their word.

She signed a contract. And I'm sure that the rescue community is on their side because this isn't the first time someone breached their contract so thoughtlessly.

[MonkeyFunk]

25. So what?

they've bought themselves a world-ful of hurt. All they had to do with verify that the dog was in a good home and be done with it.

[EFerrari]

31. No, that's not "it". And no, they will be fine. Ellen will take the hit

and that's too bad because she's a good lady.

Remind me never to enter into a contract with you.

[MonkeyFunk]

35. Well

that likelihood was slim, anyway.

The fact is, the dog was, as far as we know, placed in a good home. That's all the agency should've required.

And if you think Degeneres is going to be hurt by this more than the agency, you're just wrong. Their petulant adherence to rules is overly-rigid and ultimately, stupid.

I adopted a dog years ago. When my circumstances changed, and my sister's dog had just died, I gave him to her. He's had a charmed life since then. He's got three kids to love and protect, my sister, whom he adores, and a big yard to romp in. He's a great dog in a great situation.

He's now 11 years old and thriving. If the shelter would've suggested he be returned to them, I would've told them to go fuck themselves.

[EFerrari]

38. No, I'm not wrong. I know the industry and I know the rescue community.

Ellen just made herself look like an irresponsible flake but, she'll be okay.

The bottom line is, she had a contract. The whole thing could probably have been handled with a phone call and a home inspection. But, she didn't bother to pick up the phone and here we are.

[cuke]

39. The problem was caused by Ellen

when she gave the dog away. If Ellen hadn't don't that, and instead returned the dog as she agreed to do, then no one's feeling would have been hurt

[onenote]

57. "the dog was, as far as we know, placed in a good home"

MF, you and I are usually on the same page, but on this one I have to disagree. The problem is that we don't know if its a good fit for the dog. And neither did the rescue agency. Could the situation have been handled better--of course. WHen Ellen decided (pretty quickly apparently) that she couldn't handle the dog (or rather that her cats couldn't), she should've contacted the rescue group and told them and she could've tried to work with them to see if the dog could be placed with her hairdresser's family. In my experience, rescue agencies typically have age limits, but can be flexible if they are comfortable that the kids are mature enough to act properly around a small dog. But once Ellen decided to act unilaterally, she made it very difficult. The rescue agency couldn't just leave the dog with a family that they had not evaluated on the basis of Ellen's (a person who couldn't handle the dog herself) judgment. Taking the dog away wouldn't have precluded returning it to the family after a proper evaluation. But by taking the story to her program the way she did, Ellen made the situation more difficult. I'd still like to see it worked out, but as far as I'm concerned, the lion's share of the blame falls on Ellen for ignoring her responsibilities and then going public.

As for the age limit, 14 seems high to me too, but not by much. We have two small dogs -- one 6 pounds one 12 pounds. They are very sweet and do great around kids. But I've seen time and again where our friends bring their kids over -- kids as old as 11 or 12 -- and they get all "oooh soo cute" and try to pick up the dog in a way that is uncomfortable for the dog and when the dog squirms or squeals, then the kid freaks and starts to drop the dog. Kids need to be trained how do deal with a small dog just as they need to be trained how to hold a baby. Kids over the age of 10 certainly can learn how to behave, but its not completely wrongheaded for a rescue agency not to assume that kids of that age know how to act.

[MadBadger]

27. You wanna talk about thoughtlessness, you should see the Rescue place's Lawyer

The man was pure filth on Dan Abrams.

[EFerrari]

33. I don't watch those freep shows. And out of respect for DU lawyers

I'll just leave it at that. lol

[mondo joe]

28. I agree she should have kept her word, because eveyone should do that.

Even if your word is given to something pretty dumb -- if you give it, you keep it.

That said, I do think the clause is bizarre (though standard). With the clause in place, if you adopt a puppy and have it for 9 years and then re-home it you've broken the contract, even though the dog was yours for 99% of its life.

I'd rather see a time limited clause that would cover people who just made a bad decision. I think after some time, the dog is just yours - or should be.

All that said, Ellen did not keep her word. I don't think the agency did itself any good with how they handled it, however.

[EFerrari]

36. One of the reasons for that clause is people used to adopt animals

and then sell them to research facilities for a lot more. It was horrendous. You adopt a cat or a dog for $60 bucks and sell it for double that or more. That's the main reason for that clause.

It doesn't sound like anyone in this situation acted like a grown up but when it comes right down to it, the rescue group has the legal leg up. And, probably a lot of sympathy among animal lovers and other rescue groups which are legion in SoCal. They should actually pay Ellen for all the publicity they're getting. (Yeah, the culture IS that way.)

[mondo joe]

42. And for that purpose I think it makes sense. But I also think it's unreasonable after

some time.

I bought Sirius (below) from a breeder, and agreed to the same condition - if I ever want to re-home him I'd return him to the breeder.

Although I believe in keeping your word, I have to admit that at this point if I felt I needed to re-home Sirius I'd mae my own choice. He's my dog - I know him, I take care of him, God knows I've paid for him (in many ways). At this point I feel he's mine and I have little regard for the contract.

[EFerrari]

43. Look at that great baby!

lol

(And that's interesting. The breeder that sold me my puppy took the cash and there was no contract at all. Hmm.)



I'm not a lawyer and I don't know if there's a term to the agreement or not. My part in the whole deal was to foster not to manage the adoptions so I read the contract but that's about it.

[CatWoman]

55. stop it with the cute doggie pictures!!!!!

you're gonna make my cats jealous :)

[EFerrari]

59. LOL! My cats have trained the puppy to stand behind them

in line for the water bowl. :loveya:

[havocmom]

68. What a face! If I had to 're-home' a dog that intelligent, I'd let the dog vote on placement!

While I realize many rescue groups - AND HUMANE SHELTERS - see a lot of reasons to be very picky, sometimes they have workers and/or administrators who are of the 'give me a bit of authority and watch me turn all nazi on yer ass' persuasion.

Some people will just use any authority they get without engaging critical thought processes first. Sometime people like that work in places we would least suspect.

After months of regular visits to a shelter in my 'hood on behalf of my sister, I found a pup who was a sterling candidate for 2nd dog position in her home. Cisco needed a dog partner and my sister always had dogs in pairs, thinking they were generally happier and got more exercise.

Called my sis and suggested she come over and take a look. She and the pup hit it off immediately. :). She drove back across town to get Cisco to meet the pup and see if THEY got on well, having found out she could bring him into the exercise yard to meet his potential dog sister. He loved her and took a position of protecting her when another family and dog came out to romp a bit.

Daughter stayed with Cisco while sis & I went in to do the paperwork on the pup. I wanted to go in because I had heard way too many horror stories about how nasty shelter workers had been with potential dog adopters. Wanted to see it if it happened and be there to defend my sister should they give her shit.

The woman started out sorta ok, but pretty damned cold. Questions about the home, how the dog would be housed and all. It's good and needs to be done, BUT the worker was getting more and more harsh, nasty and bordering on belligerent as the interview went on, which raised my sister's hackles, made her defensive and not showing her best side. (One would think a worker around dogs would understand the need to avoid posturing which makes other defensive, but...)

"Are there trees on the property? Is there shade for dogs?" (Sis had just told her the dog would live inside with her but have a large fenced yard with small pond, grass)

Yes, there are some trees.

"Are they MATURE TREES?"

Well, no. The house is only 2 years old and the trees are still small...

Woman got real nasty, went totally negative and started lecturing us on the need for adequate shade for dogs in Tucson....

I jumped in and invited Sis to tell Attila the Shelter Worker about the veranda. All 480 covered feet of it... with ceiling fans.... and misters..... and speakers with nice music playing.....

Within two minutes, we had the worker asking my sis if she could be adopted too.

But, had I not been there, the bad attitude would have made my sis give up or give the woman back the same attitude. Either way, Cisco would have been denied his best dog friend/lifetime partner, my sister, her husband, their grown kids, their tiny grandkids and the rest of us in the family would have missed out on the joy of having Miss Molly join our family.

Molly is finally slowing down a bit, (at age 10 or so) but she is still extremely active and fit. She and my sis have a morning swim in the pool together every morning. The pool has formed lounge chairs at one end. Sis sits in the water and reads or sketches. Miss Molly sits in her water lounge and meditates on the diverse landscape, bunnies, birds, dragonflies and the sweetness of life.

Everybody got a good deal. But that one worker was hell bent on preventing it from happening. Makes me wonder how many dogs were given that bad shot because she was thick headed, ignorant of good interview methods so sure about what was best for the dog instead of actually having productive, engaged discussions with potential dog families.

Glad Miss Molly had all of us in her corner that day. Cisco was the happiest dog in the world to welcome his dog sister to their home. He still dotes on her. And she, him.

There's a king sized bed on the veranda, for gentle nights when the dogs and my sister want to sleep outside, meditating on the sweetness of life.

[MonkeyFunk]

44. Mondo!

That's one gorgeous pooch!


What is it - a standard poodle?

[mondo joe]

47. He's a standard poodle.

Selected mostly - I admit - because of the non shedding thing, as well as being good with kids and so on.

He's a better dog than I had any right to expect - completely social and easy going, happy and easy going, with no bad habits (yet!).

[onenote]

58. how much time? I read that Ellen just got the dog on Sep 20

Not a lot of time passed before she gave it away (and the new owners didn't have the dog for very long either, it appears).

[EFerrari]

60. This is another "for the want of a nail" situations.

It's just too bad.

[mondo joe]

66. IMO, a year or so would do it. Ellen would still be in violation.

My point wasn't that Ellen did the right thing - she violated the contract.

[CatWoman]

62. Mondo

that dog is just stunning!! :loveya:

[mondo joe]

67. Oh thanks!

But don't tell him. He doesn't know he's good looking.

[SlowDownFast]

18. They were attacked by a right-wing nutjob.

:sarcasm:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. Tha anitics of celebrities invariably make "news".

[NoPasaran]

21. Apparently the dog is the last possible primary candidate who can stop Hillary

But the adoption agency won't let it travel to Iowa.

[EFerrari]

24. Maybe we could have a fundraiser.

[Generator]

64. LOL! And you know they wouldn't even to save the free world neither

Between that remark and the Cat Nazi and MY chicken reply, this is the best thread ever!

[DURHAM D]

26. I had an encounter with a Cat Nazi several years ago.

I have had cats all of my life. I arranged to adopt a new cat from the local pound. I had to sign a form that I would have the cat fixed at a certain point, that I would not have her de-clawed, etc.

I had already paid the adoption fee and while picking up the kitten (and after she was already in the carrier I had just purchased) I mentioned that she would be indoor/outdoor because I lived on several acres in the country. They immediately grabbed the carrier and ran down the hall like I was a murderer. They gave me my money back and tried to keep the carrier for some reason.

Anyway, I called my vet and told her my story. She advised me that those pound people are crazy and she immediately found me another kitten.

[mondo joe]

29. Cat nazi?

Like this?

[tammywammy]

34. Or this?

[DURHAM D]

51. Yep - that's the one. n/t

[EFerrari]

41. Yeah, people that try to keep cats from being road kill or

gathered by bunchers to sell to research facilities are crazy. :crazy:

[DURHAM D]

48. Just so you know - the contract I had signed

had no stipulation about the cat being indoor only.

[EFerrari]

49. Are you sure? Because that's been standard since the 80s or so.

Half of these problems are just bad communication. And, that's a shame.

[DURHAM D]

50. Yes I am sure. It was 1987.

I found out later from a friend on the Board at the center that the indoor/outdoor provision was decided on a case by case basis. In my case, because I lived in the country, it should not have applied.

The Cat Nazi that was processing my adoption apparently over-stepped her authority on a regular basis. She was later fired for immediately putting down any dog that she didn't like instead of waiting the stipulated number of days -guess that makes her a Dog Nazi as well.

Any pics? Those cat Nazi pics were very cute.

[EFerrari]

52. That's terrible. There's always someone who spoils it.

:(

I lost my beautiful red girl to ? Bunchers? Who? About a week after I moved to L.A. in 2000. I think she was taken because her dead body didn't show up anywhere. After that, I became a True Believer. I just hope is wasn't too late for Sissy.

My mom lives in a rural area and the first year, lost her girl to coyotes. :(

[tuckessee]

56. You want pics?

http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com/cgi-bin/seigmiaow.pl

[Patsy Stone]

30. There once was a girl named Ellen

Whose idea to adopt a dog was a swell'un,
Until the dog and the cats,
Couldn't hang and relax,
So she gave the dog to some chill'un.

Then then the Puppy Nazis stepped in,
and took the dog away from its kin
The agency's behavior so bad
(they won't give back the dog the kids had),
and all this to Ellen's chagrin.

[Gold Metal Flake]

37. Nicely done!

:rofl:
For you!

[L0oniX]

32. Why is this posted? Who gives a flying f*ck about her dog and pony show!

Quit watching that shit. It will turn your mind into mush.

[Gold Metal Flake]

40. Oh, so YOU are the cat Nazi!

:evilgrin:

[MonkeyFunk]

45. Why is it posted?

Because thankfully, net-nannies like you don't get to tell everybody else what to do, no matter how much it pisses you off.

[L0oniX]

46. aw ...you made me cry ...you meanie

[CatWoman]

61. consider yourself extremely lucky

that he got to you before I did.

[Javaman]

63. who shot who in the what now? nt