Birth Control Pills for 11 year olds?

[MadBadger]

Anybody watching Tweety and this story and discussion? You know I'm all for a comprehensive sexual education curriculum, and if this were a high school, I would have very little issue, but allowing eleven year olds to have access to birth control pills? Jeez.

edited to add pills

[Rhythm and Blue]

1. You're right, I'm for 11-year-olds getting STDs. (SEE EDIT)

When originally posted, this did not specify "pills," but rather talked about "birth control" with no further explanation. "Pills" was added to the OP later on edit. I'm not a retard.

[BuyingThyme]

2. And babies.

[LakeSamish706]

3. The only problem with not is they are probably "doing it " anyway...

so I don't see it as necessarily encouraging them, but it might save some from unwanted child birth.

[MadBadger]

8. That response that "They are probably doing it anyway" is true for high schoolers

not 11 year olds.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. No, sorry.

Eleven year olds do it too. Better the pill than a pregnancy.

[mudesi]

23. No they don't

I don't know what world you must be living in...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. It's the world...

where adolescent pregnancy doesn't go away if you just don't think about it.

[Cooley Hurd]

38. "no they don't"

:rofl:

Yes WE did (and I'm 42 years old). In fact, I'm willing to say that WE'VE ALWAYS did.

We need to target the youngest of our citizens about the DANGERS of intercourse.:thumbsup:

[ThePowerofWill]

66. Ha! I don't know what world you're living in lol!

I've known of more than one 11 yr old having sex. We had girls pregnent in 7th grade when i went to school. I've known of 11 yr olds actively pursuing sex.

What world do you live in?

[Xenotime]

146. Yes they do. They have been for years.

There are documented cases.

[Iris]

191. A world where I taught young women who gave birth when they were 12.

Meaning, in all likelihood, they were pregnant at 11. And that was in the early 90s - BEFORE abstinence only.

People need to get real. If an 11 year old is not having sex s/he is not likely to have sex just because condoms are available to the ones who do. And if something indicates they would, then we need to step up educational efforts.

[LakeSamish706]

14. "not 11 year olds" Thats too much of a blanket statement!

There are some very advanced 11 year olds out there, both male and female...

[Rhythm and Blue]

20. Sorry. They are.

Much as it burns your mind, sexual experimentation often occurs at the beginning of puberty. Certainly not for anything approaching a majority, but some are and some always will.

[Horse with no Name]

39. My daughter had an 8th grader in her class that had twins

That same girl is 19 now and has 5 kids.
Unfortunately, 11 year olds DO have sex.

[MadBadger]

50. An 8th grader is 13 or 14 years old

[Horse with no Name]

63. You didn't understand

She HAD twins. She wasn't pregnant with twins...they were already born.

[proud2BlibKansan]

114. They are 11

Some may be doing it but the majority are not.

[Breeze54]

4. Pregnancy for 11 year olds?

Allowing 11 year olds to be minus the tools of prevention? Gheez!!!

[MadBadger]

16. I dont want to get on my high horse, but it is ridiculous for 11 year old to be having sex.

[Breeze54]

28. Well, welcome to reality because they are having sex!

That's just the way it is! Girls are getting their periods at age 8 these days!

[LakeSamish706]

32. Look, I do not want to be disrespectfull... but they are doing it...

of course not the majority, but certainly some are for certain.. As a parent, grand parent, educator one has to accept that fact and do what is the very best for the 11 year old. Denial will not work I'm afraid.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. It's even more ridiculous for an 11 year old to be pregnant.

Which is why contraception is a good idea.

[Rhythm and Blue]

46. Yeah, it is ridiculous. Now what are you going to do about it?

Cover your ears and pretend it isn't happening?
Think that if you tell them to knock it off they will?
Or try to ensure they at least don't get pregnant?

[Mojorabbit]

157. If someone

is having sex with an 11 year old they need to be brought up on charges or else be directed into some heavy counseling. No eleven year old should have birth control pills without their parents consent.

[youthere]

162. the "someones" that are having sex with 11 year old girls...

are for the most part 11 year old boys.

[Mojorabbit]

186. Do you have

stats for that statement? I'd love to see them. There is where I'd have some heavy duty counseling required. For and eleven year old girl having sex with a fourteen or older boy I'd have to think real hard about what should be done. I am thinking of my niece who is eleven and still playing with dolls.

[Catherine Vincent]

58. I agree. n/t

[Dora]

71. Nobody's saying children SHOULD be having sex. We're dealing with reality.

Some children are having sex far too young. IT'S TRUE.

So, do we ignore it, or do we give them the tools to at least do it responsibly?

What would a good American do?

[midlife_mo_Jo]

180. If eleven year olds are having sex

I would say that they aren't exactly acting responsibly, and I don't think that giving them birth control pills will change that.
Eleven year olds having sex need SUPERVISION, not pills. I realize that's not always possible for some "latchkey kids," but it would darn well be my first choice.

[11 Bravo]

193. If you don't want to get on your high horse, then stay the fuck out of the saddle.

And when you're in a deep hole, put down your shovel.

[tnlefty]

196. If it makes you feel any better, I was stunned when my then 6th

grader came home and mentioned a girl who was pregnant in his class.

The local paper ran an article about teenage parents 2-3 weeks ago, and I wanted to vomit and cry at the same time when 2 were listed at 11 yrs. and 3 were 12 yrs., not even teens yet. One of the young women had her son on her 14th birthday.

The local wingnuts have ensured that comprehensive sex ed just isn't going to happen and thus the result of very young mothers who are struggling to try to finish school, care for a child when they are still kids themselves. The fathers who agreed to be interviewed seemed overwhelmed as well.

[shanti]

198. you may think it ridiculous

but it IS happening! don't you have any kids?

[Dora]

5. It's better than the alternative. nt

[depakid]

6. Sure seems logical to me

Considering that the age of puberty has been falling over the last several decades.

Moreover, parents are all too often in denial about their kids' behaviors- which can and does have very unfortunate consequences.

[Ellen Forradalom]

7. I detect a strawman argument

Which eleven-year-olds, under what circumstances? Kindly elaborate.

[Breeze54]

22. Maine Approves Birth Control For Middle School Students

Maine Approves Birth Control For Middle School Students

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/10/18/maine-approves-birth-cont_n_68943.html

Pupils at a city middle school will be able to get birth control pills and patches
at their student health center after the local school board approved the proposal
Wednesday evening.

The plan, offered by city health officials, makes King Middle School the first middle
school in Maine to make a full range of contraception available to students in grades
6 through 8, according to the state Department of Health and Human Services.

With parental permission!!!

[Gormy Cuss]

31. A middle school in Maine will offer BC to its students under a recently approved plan.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/maine/articles/2007/10/18/middle_school_in_maine_to_offer_birth_control_pills/

It's a school serving a mix of students from some of the lowest income neighborhoods and some middle class areas. To the students from the lower income areas the student health center may be the only access they have to medical professionals outside of the emergency room.

on edit: I know the school and immediate community. There were girls getting pregnant at that school 30 years ago so it's not exactly over the top to allow the health center the option to offer BC with parental permission. That's allow, not handing out like candy which is the way some are interpreting it. Beats 7th and 8th graders facing an unplanned pregnancy any day of the week.

[mainegreen]

64. It's down the street from me, about 1 block.

It was tough driving home, getting around the swarms of news trucks from all over.
Really, way more news trucks than I would have expected.
Isn't there a genocide or something going on somewhere?

[Gormy Cuss]

75. I know.

Did you know it's sinking? Seems to me that's as big a story.

[devilgrrl]

9. Back in the year 1220, this would have made perfect sense.

I'm not so sure now. Though, I'm not entirely against teaching kids that age what birth control is.

[MadBadger]

12. I think they should def be taught what it is

but to me, this is still around the age where the parents should be the ones to control things here. When they get into high school however, than I see things the opposite way.

[devilgrrl]

21. I agree.

:patriot:

[Auggie]

26. But the parents aren't doing what they need to do.

on edit: meant "aren't, not "are".

[LakeSamish706]

56. And there in lies the problem...

"this is still around the age where the parents should be the ones to control things here" Parents in many cases are not doing their jobs and in other cases kids don't come to their parents before experimenting.

[MadBadger]

82. That's where the schools sex ed has to come in

I believe in having a very strong and in depth sexual education program, starting around fourth grade.

[Sukie1941]

36. Better teach them far younger than eleven!

Kids need to learn about sex and all of its complications from kindergarten on up. There are ways to teach them that take their ages into consideration. Many parents do this.

[Sukie1941]

10. Eleven year olds DO have babies!

When I was working as a Red Cross volunteer counseling new mothers at a Portland, OR hospital about immunizations, I saw several girls who had new babies and the girls were between 11 and 14!

Yep, little tiny bodies put in extreme danger of mortality because they aren't ready to carry a baby. But since they are really really young, we are not to give them help to avoid pregnancy?

If you want to see these kids getting pregnant, just climb in my car and I will take you on a Saturday night drive to the many places such conceptions take place.

And their mommies and daddies have no clue this is happening!

Isn't our job to keep these girls safe? Their parents are not doing the job, folks!!!!!!

[KittyWampus]

153. Sukie, did you have an inkling if these 11 yr old girls were generally w/boys or older men?

I know you weren't social councelor but just wondering if you'd come across that info.

[mudesi]

11. 11 year olds are not sexually active

And any 11 year old who is sexually active is being raped.

[Lex]

19. No sex between say an 11 yr old girl and a 13 yr old boy?

Get real.

It happens.

[Sukie1941]

25. My nine-year old neighbor in Ashland, OR was having sex

with boys out in a field near where I lived. The boys were old enough to do the job.

I asked her mother about this and her reply was "Every girl deserves to have her secrets."

[Sequoia]

152. Jesus H. !!!!! Nine years old and her mother was okay with it!

Child abuse if you ask me.

[GreenPartyVoter]

202. My oldest son is nine! *jaw dropping*

[in_cog_ni_to]

It sure does happen. Times have changed and it's best we get with their program. n/t

[mudesi]

52. It's rape

Not that I think a 13 year old boy should get the same punishment as, say, a 30 year old man for raping an 11 year old girl.

But giving birth control to 11 year olds is not exactly a solution to the problem of them being raped. It implies that the 11 year old is capable of consenting to the act.

[Rhythm and Blue]

57. Newsflash: They are.

11-year-olds can and do have sex with 11-year-olds. Saying "no no no no no" doesn't change that.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

59. What punishment do you think the 13 year old boy should get?

[mudesi]

61. I don't know

That's not the issue of this thread.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

73. You're the one bringing up the issue of rape.

[mudesi]

83. No I'm not

Just stating a fact.

[LakeSamish706]

74. Im sorry, but I doubt it would be found as being rape if the girl was...

as willing to find out what its like as the 13 year old boy. To go that route, whats to say that the parents of the boy couldn't turn it around and charge rape against the 11 year old girl?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

87. Translation: "I think he deserves a punishment so severe you'll rightfully think I'm a psycho,

so I'm not telling."

[mudesi]

96. That's quite the leap

But no. Perhaps he ought to be grounded, do community service, something, I don't know. That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about giving out birth control as a solution to 11 year olds being raped. I contend that this is not a solution.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

101. What about an eight year old who plays doctor with a six year old?

[mudesi]

104. You tell me

I don't care. That's not the subject of the thread.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

106. I say no crime is committed.

You?

[mudesi]

112. I'll agree with that. (nm)

[Yupster]

199. Unless playing doctor has changed since I was a kid

Playing doctor wouldn't require birth control pills.

[in_cog_ni_to]

68. How do you know it's not consensual? 11 year old kids are a LOT more mature these days than in my

day and 11 year old girls having sex with their 13 year old boyfriend IS NOT rape.

[Auggie]

72. Exactly. This isn't the 80's anymore.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

78. Let's not go here.

It's got nothing to do with "these days."

Kids aren't have sex any younger than they used to, people are just talking about it more. Teen and pre-teen pregnancy is far lower now then it was in the fifties, and the reason is the birth control pill.

[in_cog_ni_to]

89. OKAY. I'll speak for myself then. Sex hadn't even entered MY mind when I was 11 years old. 14, yes,

but 11? No. :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

113. LOL Sure it didn't.

You harlot, you.

:P

[in_cog_ni_to]

116. REALLY! I swear!

:7

[mudesi]

79. Neither of them know any better

There is no consent because they are incapable of giving consent. They don't know any better.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

81. So if they can't give consent, how can they rape?

[mudesi]

86. Because they can't give consent! (nm)

You like arguing.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

98. That's the answer to "How can they BE raped?", not to "How can they RAPE?"

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

102. "You like arguing."

I use real arguments.

You said they can't give consent because they don't know any better. I agree, eleven year olds don't know shit. So if they don't know any better, how can they committ rape?

[mudesi]

111. Rape is defined as sexual contact without consent

It's not rocket science, you know.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

115. Yes. Now put two and two together, see what you get.

If a kid can't consent to have sex, how could a kid consent to commit rape?

[in_cog_ni_to]

92. That's just not true. What world are you living in? n/t

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

109. So one raped the other AND the other raped the one?

[mark414]

130. how old are you?

middle schoolers are most definitely having sex these days, and they're most definitely having it together, consensually

[Xenotime]

147. Even if it is consentual? How so?

[Blue Diadem]

151. Unfortunately, there is the occasional child that age that does.

My kids are grown, been out of school at least 10 years and it was going on when they were young. There were a couple kids caught in Elementary school having sex, 6th graders at the time.

Now, I see the 5th graders acting much older since the 6th graders moved out of the building into the middle school. I can only imagine what putting 6th graders in with 7th and 8th has done.

[veritasvosliberabit]

155. Bingo!

According to the law in Maine, you're right. The age of consent is 14. It doesn't matter what the age of the other participant is.

[Lex]

15. If they have started their periods, then they should have access to BC.

nt

[freestyle]

172. You get the logic award for this thread!

It is just a fact of our evolution that sexual maturity comes before the ability to really deal with an unintended pregnancy. That does point to the need for options beyong just saying no.

[Atman]

17. What do STD's have to do with giving an 11 year old the pill?

Maybe YOU need to do some sex-ed!

If an eleven year old goes to a school nurse for the pill, the parents should be notified. At that point, it is up to the parent to buy pills if they want to.

But either way...pills don't stop STDs. That's what they were talking about.

.

[Rhythm and Blue]

24. In case you didn't see, "pills" was added on edit halfway through the discussion. nt

[Atman]

30. No, "Pills" is what the discussion was about which sparked this thread.

Maine is talking about providing BIRTH CONTROL PILLS. That is the discussion, it is NOT about condoms.

.

[MadBadger]

33. It may have been confusing

because i saw that there was confusion, and added pills in about five posts in.

[Rhythm and Blue]

37. ...yyyyes, but the original post did not mention "pills." It was:

Header: "Birth control for 11 year olds?"

Text: "Anybody watching Tweety and this story and discussion? You know I'm all for a comprehensive sexual education curriculum, and if this were a high school, I would have very little issue, but allowing eleven year olds to have access to birth control?"

Maine was indeed talking about birth control pills, but absent a link or any reference to pills in the OP, I'm not exactly sure how you expected anyone to know that.

[MadBadger]

44. I'm not disagreeing with you, I started the thread.

[Rhythm and Blue]

47. I know that. And I wasn't replying to you.

Check that again :)

[MadBadger]

54. sorry, didnt see it.

[Breeze54]

34. The school already distributes condoms and education and now; The Pill.

All with parental permission at the school's health clinic.

[MadBadger]

43. I just heard from Hardball that it doesnt work that way

They just said you need to have parental permission to use the health clinic, which also means to get things like shots. But the parents will never know if a child wants the pill.

[Breeze54]

53. Like Hardball and Matthews are credible sources about BC?

:rofl:

They have to have a PRESCRIPTION to get the pills.

[Auggie]

18. Apparently these kids are sexually active already

Like anybody else I'd like to see parents do some real parenting, but that's not happening in every circumstance.

[MonkeyFunk]

29. It's for a middle school

the kids range from 11 to 15. And if an 11 year old is sexually active, yes, she should have access to contraceptives.

[MadBadger]

35. There, it is 11-13.

[MonkeyFunk]

48. The woman on TV

from the School Board said there are kids as old as 15 in the school.

But nonetheless, if an 11 year old is sexually active, she should have access to contraception.

[Atman]

45. I first had sex on my 15th birthday.

With a 14 year old girl. I went to the drug store and bought condoms. It was the scariest, most humiliating thing I'd ever done (up to that point in my short life). But I did it, because I was EDUCATED about it before hand.

But this isn't about "contraceptives." It's about THE PILL for 11 year old girls. I'm sorry, I'm Mr. Liberal, but that is not the school nurse's place. If an 11 year old comes to her looking for birth control pills, her parents should be notified.

.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. If a 11 year old comes looking for birth control pills...

give her the birth control pills. Her parents have no business stopping her.

[Atman]

60. That's ludicrous!

"The Pill" is a hormone, a drug, and a daily regimen. A condom is a piece of latex. My kids can't even get an ASPIRIN from the school nurse, but now you want to give her PRESCRIPTION AUTHORITY? Are you daft?

.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

67. Yeah, and the pill's still far superior than pregnancy.

"My kids can't even get an ASPIRIN from the school nurse, but now you want to give her PRESCRIPTION AUTHORITY? Are you daft?"

The school board didn't change any sort of prescription law. The patient still has to get the same sort of prescription from the same sort of medical professional they would at a private clinic.

"Are you daft?"

No, I'm not just a Victorian-era neanderthal.

[Deja Q]

76. Can the pill stop herpes, gonorrhea, syphilis, HIV, crabs, crippled emotions...?

Depends on who she'd be having sex with, but the whole issue transcends mere pregnancy!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

85. No, and it can't stop rope burn during gym class.

I don't think anybody's saying they should provide birth control and not condoms.

[Atman]

88. Yes, in fact, that's what they're saying.

"Birth control" and "contraceptives" are being freely interchanged with "The Pill" in this thread. It's mind-boggling.

.

[Deja Q]

97. So a bunch of us will never win awards for "circumventing generalizations",

the fact of the matter is the morality of the situation and, indeed, the aspects of the children's health that we're not talking about in this thread.

[MonkeyFunk]

100. Why not?

The birth control pill IS a contraceptive.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

120. There was a faux pas in the OP.

They said contraceptives, should have said pill.

That's been corrected, everybody knows we're talking about the pill.

And I still don't see anybody saying condoms should not be available.

[Deja Q]

91. Rope burn - so phy ed teaches people how to get jiggy along with clumbing?!

What some people are advocating is something that, forgive me, just should not be done at that age and for a plethora of very valid reasons.

Trust me. If I had the choice, I'd re-do my childhood and do more to avoid certain, yes-indeedie-they-were-traumatic episodes...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

121. Really?

What's one good reason a sexually active kid should not have access to birth control?

[MonkeyFunk]

125. Whether they should or not is irrelevant

they ARE having sex. Some of them.

So what's the best way to deal with that? Let'em get pregnant to teach 'em a lesson?

[gollygee]

201. "Mere pregnancy" ???

There's nothing "mere" about pregnancy, particularly for an 11-year-old.

[Atman]

77. Can the eleven year old go to her doctor and get prescriptions without parental permission?

Then she should go there. And she'll get her scrip. So what is the point of involving school nurses?

.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

99. Can a parent deny medical treatment?

The issue comes up with Jehovah's witnesses denying blood transfusions/organ donations.

But yeah, a pregnant girl can go out and have an abortion without parental knowledge, let alone permission. Thank god.

"So what is the point of involving school nurses?"

1. I don't think it's the same as the old fashioned school nurse with a tongue depressor and a cot in the broom closet. Sounds like a much more modernized health center.

2. Better access to birth control means more people use it. It's the same reason they provide condoms in schools, instead of having to march down to the pharmacy and having to ask the pharmacist for some.

[in_cog_ni_to]

110. AGAIN!!!!!! This is NOT a SCHOOL NURSE! This is from a CLINIC, staffed with DOCTORS and nurses!

Stop with the exaggerations.

[Deja Q]

69. I utterly disagree. Her parents have every right and more.

She is under 18. Until age 18 she is a child and has to abide by her parents' rules and hopefully learn from them. Everyone makes their mistakes, but at age 11 she sure as hell isn't going to know any better and it damn well would be grounds for molestation.

Never mind the health aspect.

She would be engaging in potentially serious acts; birth control aside there are diseases and dignity to consider. (Ditto for boys, this issue isn't centric toward or misogynic against women!)

What next; the sicko uncle or priest cajoling innocent children into popping pills and using condoms to assist in molestation?

You bet the parents need to be notified. It's not about creating a nanny state. It's about children who don't know any better at that age...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

124. No, her parents have no right to force a pregnancy.

If the kid wants to protect herself, the parents have no business putting her in jeopardy.

[Xenotime]

149. My point exactly.

[Xenotime]

148. That's right. It's better for her safety that she gets them.

[MonkeyFunk]

62. And if that's the policy

it will ensure that no 11 year old who needs contraceptives will go ask for them, defeating the whole purpose.

[Atman]

70. Are we talking about CONTRACEPTIVES or THE PILL?

That's what is being overlooked here. We're not talking about "CONTRACEPTIVES." We're talking about a school nurse prescribing drugs to children because they ask for them. That's insanity.

.

[MonkeyFunk]

94. all of it

Presumably the school nurse counsels the kid on all the options.

It's not as if they're forcing kids to take the Pill. I imagine a very very small number of 11 year olds would even have need of it. But there ARE, in fact, 11-year olds who are sexually active, and they should have access to all forms of contraception.

[in_cog_ni_to]

40. YES. They should have access to BC pills AND abortions. n/t

[ChickMagic]

42. 11 year olds do it

A former co-worker shocked me when he told me that he and a little girl, when they were both 11, screwed every day for a year and a half. That was a long time ago. Nurses here at Parkland tell me about having 11 and 12 year old girls screaming for their mommy through childbirth while clutching their dolls. Hormones in food have sped up puberty for many of them. Some of them are victims of sexual abuse.

[book_worm]

55. true some do, but I would guess that most 11 year olds don't

At least I would hope so.

[ChickMagic]

160. No, most 11 year olds don't

I truly didn't know they did until my co-worker relayed this story.

[Deja Q]

84. Awful. Sick. Atrocious.

And if the girl's body isn't sufficiently developed, isn't it true the baby within would compress surrounding organs or even cause death by rupturing out of the uterine cavity? (I'm no doctor, but some of these concepts are wholly possible...)

[ChickMagic]

159. Yeah, it's true

These girls were mostly impregnated by incest, so they don't have
prenatal care. Nor do they show up at the hospital when labor begins to
kick in. It's full blown when they arrive.

They also have to have a monster episiotomy.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

165. You mean, a C Section.

Major abdominal surgery. Getting sliced open from one hip to the other to save your life and the baby's life.

[ChickMagic]

194. Yeah, they do get C-sections

There have been a couple to present vaginally with monster episiotomies.

[Hydra]

51. If they are sexually active, of course they should be getting them

Why are we having this discussion, except for the dropped jaws and exclamations of "Uh-uh! No way! They can't have sex at that age!"

They:
Can
Do
Get over it

Tired of a nation of prudes that live with their heads in the sand.

[Atman]

65. The Pill is a DRUG. You're advocating PRESCRIPTION AUTHORITY for school nurses.

:crazy:

.

[in_cog_ni_to]

It's a CLINIC, NOT a school nurse. It's an Independently run CLINIC.

:scared: Absolutely NOTHING wrong with this!

[Breeze54]

90. The parents get the PRESCRIPTION!

The nurse disperses it!

[MadBadger]

103. If the child requests condidentiality, parents are not informed.

[Breeze54]

128. The kid can't even go to the clinic, without permission!

Did you understand that?

by virtue of signing permission, the parents are agreeing, that they know their kid MIGHT get BC!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

166. you mean "dispense".

Thank you, the spelling and grammar Police.

[cdsilv]

93. Sex is not the only reason for taking the pill......

They also help regulate and moderate a girls period. My youngest daughter is now 18, but started her period at 11 - when she had it she pretty much had to go to bed for a week....her doctor put her on BC pills which really helped. She's not interested in dating yet (deaf, learning disabled - mentally 18, emotionally around 12), and we keep her pretty close. She still has problems with her period occasionally, but nothing like it used to be.

I know that the schools are doing this because of teen pregnancies, and I think it indicates parents who don't know what they are doing and who shouldn't have kids, but
I think people should know that BC pills are not JUST for BC....

[Hydra]

119. Point?

If you have a better idea, I'd like to hear it.

[kitty1]

129. 11 year olds can drink alcohol and take drugs too, is that ok too

[Hydra]

136. Not from my perspective

But sex is as natural as eating, sleeping and killing. Since we can't stop people from doing the other 3, why don't we deal with reality and prevent the possible pregnancies.

Not dealing with reality doesn't fix it.

[MonkeyFunk]

137. Nor is it "OK" for them to have sex

nobody's arguing that.

But if an 11 year old is shooting heroin, common sense would dictate providing clean needles, no?

[The Stranger]

80. If they need it and it is okay with their parents, what business is it of yours?

[MadBadger]

95. Its confidential. Parents do not know at all.

[Warren DeMontague]

108. Got a link on that? nt

[MadBadger]

118. Its the basis of the story

On hardball, just type in birth control middle school and Im sure youll find it.

[Breeze54]

123. The Students need parental permission ....

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iVGnJMjw7hzjRGVQ_yviGL9GR2Cw
snip-->

Students need parental permission to access the school's health center.

The health center IS for sexual health care and birth control (condoms) until

last night, when Birth Control pills were also approved. The parents, by giving

permission, understand why the kid is going to the clinic.

[Ellen Forradalom]

135. *If* the health clinic is dispensing only contraception

*then* consent amounts to knowledge.

Are we certain other services are not also being provided?

[Breeze54]

143. They do provide other services .

[in_cog_ni_to]

126. That's not true. It is with PARENTAL CONSENT.

School Committee increases access to birth control for middle schoolers

http://news.mainetoday.com/updates/017349.html

The Portland School Committee voted Wednesday to allow some pupils at a middle
school to get birth control pills and patches at the student health center.

The proposal, offered by city health officials, makes King Middle School the first
middle school in Maine to make a full range of contraception available to students
in grades 6 through 8, according to the state Department of Health and Human Services.

The board voted 5-2 for the proposal. Three student members of the school committee,
representing each of Portland's three high schools, also voted "yes."

Chairman John Coyne voted against the measure, saying he felt providing the birth control
was a parental responsibility. The other "no" vote came from Ben Meiklejohn, who said the
consent form does not give a clear enough definition of the services being offered.

Opponents who spoke at the public meeting cited religious and health objections.

Condoms have been available since 2002 to King students
who have parental permission
to be treated at its student health center. Now those same student will have access to prescription methods.



By JOEL ELLIOTT
Published: October 18, 2007

PORTLAND, Me., Oct. 17 — The Portland school board on Wednesday approved a measure allowing middle-school students to gain access to prescription birth control medications without notifying parents.

The proposal, from the Portland Division of Public Health, calls for the independently operated health care center at King Middle School to provide a variety of services to students, including immunizations and physical checkups in addition to birth-control medications and counseling for sexually transmitted diseases, said Lisa Belanger, an administrator for Portland’s student health centers.

All but two members of the 12-person committee voted to approve the plan.

The school principal, Mike McCarthy, said about 5 of the school’s 500 students had identified themselves as being sexually active.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/18/us/18portland.html?ex...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2077041

[Gormy Cuss]

132. Parents must give permission for the student to receive any care at the health center.

The student choice to seek birth control is confidential. Because the school system does not want to invite lawsuits I would imagine that the parental permission slips are specific enough to constitute informed consent.

[Ellen Forradalom]

107. I'm concerned about medical implications

If the girl is prescribed BCP and her parents don't know, then presumably her regular pediatrician doesn't know either, so any effects on her health cannot be monitored.

I do think it would be my right to know my child's medical profile, particularly one still so young, as I would be responsible for her well-being.

[kitty1]

122. Giving hormones to girls that young who are just starting puberty

could wreak havoc on their bodies. Girls go thru enough hormonal changes during those pre teen years without adding more estrogen on top of things to really put their system out of whack.
You can't tell me there won't be long term repercussions for girls that age starting the pill and staying on it for 20 or more years after that.

[Breeze54]

127. Pregnancy also wreaks havoc on a 12 yr. old!

The pill is safe. It's been in use for almost 100 years!

Girls are getting their periods, earlier and earlier.

My friend's daughter got hers at age 8!

[kitty1]

134. The pill is not completely safe, there are implications for breast..

cancer potential in their future for one thing if they're on it that early and for a long time without a break.

[Breeze54]

142. Everything in life carries a risk - "Myths About Breast Cancer"

but avoiding unwanted pregnancies is a good thing!

And there has been no proof between BC and breast cancer.

-------------

Myths About Breast Cancer

http://www.breastcancer.org/symptoms/understand_bc/bc_myths/index.jsp

# 6. Birth control pills cause breast cancer.

No.

Modern day birth control pills contain a low dose of the hormones estrogen and progesterone. Many research studies show no association between birth control pills and an increased risk of breast cancer. However, one study that combined the results of many different studies did show an association between birth control pills and a very small increase in risk. The study also showed that this slight increase in risk decreased over time. So after 10 years, birth control pills were not associated with an increase in risk.

Birth control pills also have benefits:

* decreasing ovarian and endometrial cancer risk
* relieving menstrual disorders, pelvic inflammatory disease, and ovarian, and cysts
* improving bone mineral density

As with any medicine, you have to weigh the risks and benefits and decide what is best for YOU.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

169. The pill was put on the market in about 1960.

Your math is way off.
The birth control pill has been in use for about 47 years then, NOT 100 years.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

131. That's why there are still doctors involved.

[MonkeyFunk]

140. And you're responsible for her

well-being when she's 17, too.

The age thing is a ridiculous argument. We're talking about whether or not ANYBODY under 18 should have access to reproductive counseling and health care.

As a long time abortion-clinic escort, I say loudly YES!!

[Warren DeMontague]

105. Don't worry about it. A couple more GOP administrations, and the pill will be illegal for EVERYONE.

11 year olds and 31 year olds alike.

So you would do well to ignore the media phony outrage machine ("Contraceptive for KIDS! Just in time for the WAR ON CHRISTMAS! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!")...

First off, as I understand it, the area this is allegedly based on requires parental approval for the kids to get anything from the clinic. So take a deep breath and let it go, already.

[JitterbugPerfume]

117. if they are sexually active

you betcha!

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

133. Birth Control pills are non-trivial medication. I would much rather see

them provide disposable spermicide applicators and condoms... relatively harmless things that also reduce spread of disease.

To be effective, the pill requires a level of responsibility. And I don't know if we have enough studies of the effect of hormone-based regimens on neo-adolescents that young.

Especially since so many teenage girls smoke, the pill can be rather dangerous, even without getting into whether it encourages unsafe sex in an intrinsically irresponsible age-group.

For that matter, the risks associated with a terminated pregnancy are probably lower than the risks from picking up diseases. (And perhaps even lower than the already low risks associated with oral contraceptives. I've known two young women on the pill who have had strokes. I never hear about anyone dying from a legal abortion.)

Complicated stuff!

[kitty1]

139. 11 year olds will forget to take them a lot. They're not responsible

enough to deal with that kind of committment to something..

[Breeze54]

145. Women have died from legal abortions, the pill is low dose anyway (the new one's are)

pregnancy is way more of a risk to a pubescent girl, the school provided condoms and smoking in teens has gone way down!

[alphafemale]

188. Birth Control-Yes. Pills-No.

It's unlikely that someone who still needs to be reminded to wash their hands before eating will be responsible enough to take the Pill every day.

They are also unlikely to grasp the idea that they are NOT being protected from STD's.

Screwing around with a kid's hormone's is probably not the best idea either.

[NekoChris]

138. FYI

This was on a radio show this morning, I think it was either Diane Reams or someone on the AM but basically:

They must have parental consent to get ANYTHING AT ALL but once they have consent, they have access to all supplies.

The nurses will talk to the child about abstiance, STDs, protection, useage, application, side effects, and everything they need to be prepared about as a 'This is what you are getting in to' situation.

If they insist, they will be provided with it, and the it is at the child's descretion to tell the parents or not. About 5% they say, have told the parents, and for the 5% that have there is probably double that of the school population who haven't.

I think it's a good idea. I'd rather have educated kids getting into things than kids who are naturally curious, explorative, and now pregnant oopsie doodle.

[baldguy]

141. Its attitudes like yours which allow teen pregnancy to be a problem.

In other more enlightened industrialized nations, children having children isn't a problem. Because THEY have comprehensive sex ed starting in kindergarten & free access to birth control for everybody.

[brentspeak]

167. What "more enlightened" nations have sexually-active 11-year-olds?

Hard for a nation to be termed "enlightened" if its pre-teens are sexually-active.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

168. All nations have sexually-active 11-year-olds.

The enlightened ones have less pregnant 11-year-olds.

[eShirl]

144. IMO anyone capable of getting pregnant has a right to access to birth control

and the full range of reproductive health care

[youthere]

164. Damn straight.

[All4Free]

150. This scares me.

Because they can still totally get AIDS or any other disease, and if their mom and dad have no idea and they get antibiotics for something else, there goes the effectiveness of the pill. I wish they could encourage condom use more strongly with this only as a backup.

Plus is anyone going to be finding out if these very very young girls are being taken advantage of? I have read that with older teens they usually have boyfriends around their own age but many times with these very young girls it is older men taking advantage of them. That has been true with the very young girls I know in real life who started having sex young. They should have a full range of counseling available and encourage them to be honest about what's happening, so they can be sure they're using condoms and be sure they aren't being used by men who should not be touching them.

[Breeze54]

154. They've been giving out Condoms since 2000!!

The clinic does stress health care and sexual education.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2081393&mesg_id=2081494

[1000evorlrak]

156. I am the contraceptive/birth control/sexual control

Rest assured.

The boy may have had every class and instruction available in regards to sex education. He may know that barriers may block diseases that may kill you. In my daughter's case he will understand that her father is the barrier and the barrier will kill him.

Boys and girls at age eleven need to have an instilled fear of consequences. Further they need good men to stand forward and show them what a man truly is. A real man will not put people he loves in unnecessary jeopardy, in reality he will die willingly to save them from it.

My daughter will know that among other things, whe will bear the most pain from sex. She will feel the pain of losing her virginity. She will feel the pains of pregnancy. She will feel the pain of child birth. She will bear the burden of raising a child if she has it out of wedlock. In the case of STDs, she will suffer more pain than for most of them than the boy. Further, she will suffer more from the emotional side of sex than a boy will.

There is nothing false in my statements.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

170. Stop making her feel like a vessel of pain. Teach her to be responsible without being a sexist.

She may or may not suffer more emotionally from sexual involvement than a boy will.

Boys are NOT all uncaring bastards, and girls are not always in love with the person they have sex with. So stop making blanket sexist statements.

You sound like Ann Landers who used to say "Boys are animals, they only want one thing, when they get that one thing from you, they will drop you like a piece of Kleenex." I believed that crap in high school because they didn't tell us anything about sex other than show us movies of that deluded old bag.

[1000evorlrak]

187. Russian roulette really sucks

Maybe the boy is really a great guy. Perhaps, through some quark of history, he will be the one that will marry her.

Perhaps I will be struck down by a meteor as I write this. I have a son as well and I will see to it that he keeps in line as well. Boys aren't necessarily cruel, but boys and girls are motivated toward goals that are not the same.

A boy will offer emotion he is not ready to give to get what he is after. A girl will offer sex her body is not ready to give to get the boys emotions. It has always been this way.

Jeff Foxworthy once commented that women always wonder whate men are thinking. He told them from the age of 13 until death it is pretty much "I'd like a beer and I'd like to see something naked." I don't think he was far off.

[ieoeja]

179. Worst. Father. Ever.

I find it insane that in the 21st century women are still feeling the pain of losing their virginity. Go to the doctor and have your hymen cut BEFORE engaging in sex. Why in the world would you want someone to painfully tear their way through it?

[1000evorlrak]

192. Oh yeah

This is a great conversation:

(Phone ringing)
Receptionist: Doctor Quack's office. How may I you?
Father: Yes I'd like to schedule an appointment with the Doctor for my daughter.
Receptionist: Yes, and what would the appointment be for?
Father: I'd like for her to have her hymen removed.
Receptionist: Is Friday at ten A.M. okay for you?
Father: No, I'd like to have it done by Thursday, she has a school dance to attend on Friday. You understand.
Receptionist: I have a opening at 4 p.m. Thursday, will that be better?
Father: Yes, thanks.

In what unuverse is this going to happen? My father looks at my little sister, who has two kids of her own and has put him through nine kinds of hell, and still sees the little blue-eyed girl that called him Daddy. My wife's father looks at her the same way. It's just the way Dad's are it seems.

[Book Lover]

195. When do you plan on undoing all of this work?

Someday it will be OK for her to have sex, you know. What's your plan for undoing all of the work you're doing right now?

My family (and my Church) didn't have a game plan for me, to tell me when it was OK to have sex and how to handle myself as a mature adult woman. The result? Unwanted pregnancy and so much shame that I, a wife and mother in my late 30's, am still dealing with it. Don't let what happened to me happen to your daughter, please.

[Yupster]

200. I have a ten year old

If another adult knows my ten year old is engaging in an inappropriate action, be it smoking, drinking, having sex, taking drugs, I absolutely expect that adult to notify me as the parent so I can help my child. It's hard to imagine a neighbor or someone knowing what my kid is up to and keeping it from me. That seems completely irresponsible as well as dangerous.

This has already happened once. My kid was cursing on the internet. We got an anonymous letter from a "concerned parent" directing me to the website. I appreciated the letter. It showed caring for my child's well-being. We were able to have a long talk and he got grounded from the computer for a month.

Would that parent have done better by not telling me? I sure don't think so.

[liberalhistorian]

158. Absolutely agree, there is NO REASON

for kids that age to have BC, NONE. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION. Next thing you know, they'll be sending bc home inside kindergarten welcome packets. Sheesh.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

163. Preventing pregnancy sounds like a good reason to me.

Not you?

[youthere]

161. Much better they should get pregnant...

THAT will teach them. :sarcasm:

[joe_sixpack]

171. Any chance

we can let kids enjoy the little that is left of an already dwindling period of time called childhood? They've got so much time ahead of them when they can have all the anxiety, worry, and appetites that we silly adults have. But that magical time of innocence, wonder and imagination they wander through is gone so quickly and never attained again.

[noonwitch]

173. Parents need to prevent their 11-13 year olds from having sex!

That is just too young. Parents have to provide supervision, and when they can't, they have to involve their kids in supervised activities.

All kids under 18 are too young to be having sex. I'm not saying that parents should deny contraception to a 16 or 17 year old, but they are still too young to be having sex. I don't care who here lost their virginity at what age-if you were under 18, you were still too young and immature to make the kind of decisions one needs to be able to make in a sexual relationship.

Dating for 11-13 year olds should be limited to the following situations:

1. School dances
2. roller skating/attending movies/sports events at school with a group of kids and at least one set of parents. At my high school's football games, the junior high kids all sat in the end zone speakers. Our parents could see us from the stands on the sidelines and ensure no hanky panky was going on.
3. Church/synagogue/community youth group activities.
4. Hanging out at the kids' houses while supervised by parents who are spending the time to get to know their children's friends.

At the end of each date, the couple is allowed a kiss that lasts less than 30 seconds. Anything more gets greeted with a garden hose.

I know it sounds tough, but they are just too young to be having sex. It's different for 16-18 year olds, but that still doesn't mean it's okay.

The only reason on earth that I have any sympathy at all for Britney Spears is because society/Hollywood/her parents either participated in or looked the other way a 13 year old was made into a sex symbol. Of course she's screwed up!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

174. "All kids under 18 are too young to be having sex."

Oh baloney.

For legal purposes, you've got to have an arbitrary age where buying a pack of cigarettes is illegal one day, legal on the next.

To try to make moral and social arguments out of those bureaucratic arbitrations is silly.

"Parents have to provide supervision, and when they can't, they have to involve their kids in supervised activities."

And if they can't do that, and nobody can provide supervised activity 24 hours a day, they need to provide birth control.

[noonwitch]

181. If you are under 18, you are the responsibility of another person

Sex is for responsible adults, not stupid teenagers. Adults need to hold kids to a high standard. That doesn't mean to abuse or beat them when they make mistakes, but being a sexually active teen is not a good thing and should never be condoned by parents/adults in the kid's life.

It's not just pregnancy. It's also syphilis, gonerrea, HPV, HIV, herpes-the last three are with you for life, and two of them will eventually kill them. Not to mention the hearbreak of being sexually involved with someone, and having him dump you and tell all his friends that he had sex with you. Or getting pregnant and making a hearbreaking decision about whether to have an abortion or a baby.

Kids in grades 6-8, in particular, are way too young to be having sex.

Then again, if you think it's okay for 11 year olds to be having sex, there's not much more to say.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

183. If I'm under 18...

Some busybody adult has no business telling me who I should and shouldn't fuck.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

175. Some people on this thread are out of touch with a few sad realities

First of all, the middle school in question isn't talking about contraception for 11-year-olds, but 13-year-olds (also middle schoolers) have been having babies since time immemorial.

I'm in my fifties, and a couple of girls in my class got pregnant when they were in eighth grade. Many girls are physically (although not emotionally) capable of bearing a child at that age.

I've also known street kids who had their first child at age 12.

I'm not saying that young teenagers having sex is a good thing, but it is a reality.

A further consideration (and I can't remember where I read this) is that most girls under 15 who are having sex are having it with older boys or men. Just from what I've seen over the years, that sounds right to me.

Sometimes such an early pregnancy is the result of rape or other sexual abuse (the mother's boyfriend in some dysfunctional families). Sometimes it's a girl from a messed-up family who has been abused and neglected and is a perfect victim for anyone who appears to offer her "love."

Again, there were young teens in my junior high school (seventh-ninth grade) who got pregnant, most of them as the result of sex with someone older, a married man in one instance.

All very sad cases.

If the middle school in question has girls who are in these situations, the ideal solution would be for them to stop seeing these older guys. However, that's not going to happen in a dysfunctional family. Better that the girl be given contraception than that she end up with a baby at 13.

Let's not get into paroxysms of false indignation and imagine school-sponsored orgies for 11-year-olds.

[yella_dawg]

176. I love to see a good bloody shirt argument here on DU.

Nothing like getting everybody's adrenaline pumping over some issue a moron manufactured to distract the average citizen from important issues of the day.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

178. We can't reach through the TV and pommel the morons manufacturing this issue.

So if a few morons show up here and argue the same manufactured issue, is it any wonder they get pummeled?

[Ilsa]

177. I knew a woman who gave her daughters (12 and up) "vitamins"

every morning. And those girls did wonder why they never got pregnant in high school. "I wasn't going to let my daughters screw up with an unwanted pregnancy and ruin their lives and some boys' lives over their hormones," she told me.

Good for her. If an 11 year old wants pills, she needs some counselling along with the contraception, but ultimately, she needs the contraception.

[ieoeja]

182. I was invited to have sex in the 6th grade.

Turned out there were three sexually active members of my class. One of the gals wanted to include me in the group. This was during recess at school.

Much to my surprise the three of them did not know that sex caused pregnancy. I say "surprise" because I went to a three room elementary school in the countryside where every single child came from a working farm. How can you reach that age on a farm and NOT know how pregnancy occurs?

The conversation spread beyond the four of us. I ended up arguing with about half the six grade class (at 21 kids we had the largest class to ever go through the school; my brother's class, for instance, had 6 pupils). Many of them, of course, went home and told their parents, who complained to the school, who complained to my parents. My dad** simply told me, "you did the right thing. Now never do it again."

And that is how sex education (sort of) came to my elementary school around 1972.


**My parents were the adult 4-H leaders. After our meetings my dad would hand out condoms to any of the guys who asked. My mom provided the same purpose for the gals. I see many on this thread would happily have thrown my parents in jail for child abuse or something. Tough titties. Dad's dead and mom's dying. So you're too flippin' late.

[joe_sixpack]

184. No matter how many "tools" or how much knowledge we

give to preteens, does anyone really believe any number of them will use that information responsibly?

The only thing an 11 or 12 year old boy really knows about sex is "It feels really good when I rub my willy this way." He's not thinking, "Hmmm... you know, the moral and reasonable thing to do before I engage in mutual pleasing behavior with this decent young lady, is to think of all the consequences I've been taught and take the time and measures to avoid any long term negative effects that may result from my hasty actions. I'm going to postpone receiving pleasure to my reproductive organ and carefully go over everything my teachers, school nurses or parents taught my about situations like this."

If we carry some of these arguments to their logical conclusion, then the only real answer is to give girls a birth control vaccine whether they want it or not.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

185. Um, yes.

"does anyone really believe any number of them will use that information responsibly?"

Not all of them, no, but some of them will.

[joe_sixpack]

189. I saw some tv news show once, somewhere.

it showed a group of teenagers who were all smokers. They presented these kids with all sorts of scary information and medical facts about what smoking does to your body. Showed them pictures and cases of people dying of cancer and other smoking related illnesses, and how horrible it was. Had them listen to stories and testimonials from people who were sick or dying and regretted ever taking up the habit. When they were through and asked the kids if what they learned was enough to make them quit, most said they wouldn't. None of their reasons really made much sense, but hey, that's how kids think.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

190. Well, no.

Nicotine's chemically addictive, and anti-smoking information isn't going to change that.

Sex ed and access to birth control will lower teen pregnancy though. That's why teen pregnancy rates are far lower than they were fifty years ago.

[Lucinda]

197. Can we please let their bodies develop

before we start popping pills into them.

[GreenPartyVoter]

203. Yeah, I have concerns with that too.

[Rhiannon12866]

204. If 11-year-olds need birth control pills, their parents are as clueless

as the parents of the shooters at Columbine.;(