What's the real deal with Benazir Bhutto?

[MonkeyFunk]

I remember when she was first PM, and I thought she was beautiful and strong. Then the corruption charges came - are they based in reality or were they all trumped up against her?

She seems to have all the right enemies to make me like her, but is she just the flipside to the OTHER corrupt dictators over there?

Anybody know much about her and the charges against her?

[MonkeyFunk]

1. kick

anybody know much about this? I just don't know much about what really happened.

[izzybeans]

2. I have a friend from Pakistan I was going to ask her the same thing.

If I hear anything worthwhile I'll post it here.

[MonkeyFunk]

6. Thank you

I'd be very interested to hear the response.

[Hatalles]

10. I have a friend born/raised in Pakistan.

He told me that if there was an election tomorrow and Bhutto was able to run, she would win in a heartbeat. At the same, he also says that corruption charges are serious -- not trumped up at all.

See the Tariq Ali quote in the post below as well.

[MonkeyFunk]

13. That's what's so difficult...

I recognize there is SOME moral/cultural relativism... but is she a pure crook/despot (as I believe Musharaff to be) or is she something else?

[angstlessk]

3. How the hell are we to know?? We just learned 5 years ago where

Pakistan was on a fricking map...give me a break!

OPPS..though true I must include :sarcasm:

[booley]

4. Well there is this...

"AMY GOODMAN: Explain who Benazir Bhutto’s father was.

TARIQ ALI: Benazir Bhutto’s father was Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, the founder of the Pakistan People's Party, a party which was originally founded because in the late ’60s, in November ’68, you had a giant movement against the military, a insurrection, which carried on for three whole months, uniting workers and students and peasants. Many of the students were killed. But, finally, the movement was triumphant, and the dictator was overthrown, and the country had to have its first general election.

And the politician who won in what is now Pakistan was Benazir’s dad, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who pledged -- his big slogan was food, clothing and shelter for the poor, massive social reforms, massive land reforms. He could have changed the face of Pakistan, had he so wanted, because the military was completely weak by then. But, in fact, he pledged all these things and did nothing. And so, when the military captured him, Henry Kissinger said to him, “Unless you desist on the nuclear question, we’re going to make a horrible example out of you.” And he didn’t, and so they made a horrible example out of him. He was executed.

AMY GOODMAN: And how did Benazir Bhutto, his daughter, rise to power?

TARIQ ALI: Benazir Bhutto was, in those days, not very political, but her father's martyrdom, so to speak, brought her into politics. I remember talking to her when her father was prime minister of Pakistan, and she would say to me, “Oh, you know, he’s putting me under pressure to come into politics. I don’t want to be a politician. I want to be a diplomat. I want to be in the foreign office.” But once her father was killed by the army, she and her mother were very courageous. They took the military on. They were locked up. They were in and out of prison. So her role at that time was very honorable.

The big problems began when she -- after General Zia was blown up in a plane with the US ambassador, there were elections again, and Benazir won. But she was unable to do anything the first time. And the second time she came to power, her government was incredibly corrupt, and the military then, when Musharraf came to power, charged her with corruption. The evidence is there; it’s irrefutable. And as part of the deal now, this corruption is being ignored, which is making people incredibly cynical."

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/10/1414233&mode=thread&tid=25

[MonkeyFunk]

9. Thank you for that

much appreciated.

[pretzel4gore]

5. her dad was executed...

somehow, that elevates her over the easily made accusations of corruption- her entire political career stems from the brutal state killing of her old man; but whether she has any ability to guide her nation through the heavily mined waters it's travelling through is anyone's guess. Just the fact she's a woman (like Indira Gandhi in India, who was assassinated, as was her son)...one thing for sure. Bhutto must be one incredibly courageous woman to even think of putting her fate in the hands of all the forces at work in Pakistan-imagine junyer bush or any of those bush monkees standing beside her!

[MonkeyFunk]

7. Yes

I think she's very very courageous, and I admire that.

I really want to like her - I just want to know if she's 1% as bad as her enemies claim.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. For That Political System She Is Quite Liberal

eom

[Xithras]

11. Both.

She was accused of 10 or 15 counts of money laundering, most of which were probably fabricated. Several were NOT, however, and non-Pakistani investigations have pretty well proven it. They were charged and convicted of money laundering in Switzerland as the result of one of those charges.

AFAIK, the corruption basically boils down to this. Bhutto's husband controlled a corporation in Switzerland. Foreign contracts for things like military equipment would be arranged by her husbands corporation in exchange for a small commission. Over the years, these commissions added up to over a billion dollars. Bhutto and her husband claim that the transactions are legitimate, since his company actually did help to arrange the purchase of the foreign materials. The Pakistani government calls them fraudulent since she was PM and was effectively steering the sales to her husband in the first place. The Swiss, for what it's worth, agreed with the Pakistani government.

She has a petty decent Wiki page if you really want to read up on it.

[MonkeyFunk]

14. Thank you

yes, I've read her Wiki entry, and it just left me as confused as ever.

Perhaps she's neither good nor bad... or rather, equally good and bad.

I just have an instinct to want to support her, but the questions about her make that difficult.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

15. Maybe the key question here is "What's the alternative?"

[MonkeyFunk]

17. That's certainly

a huge consideration.

I guess it comes down to whether I merely smile if she's re-elected or whether I whoop and holler.

[Xithras]

16. I don't think she's really bad, just a product of her society.

It's pretty common in MOST middle eastern societies for people in positions of power to steer business to their friends and relatives. It's illegal and considered corruption in most western countries, but not all that uncommon when you get into the rest of the world. Heck, it's not really all that uncommon here, we're just better at hiding it.

The hypocrisy really isn't that she diverted business to relatives. Musharraf does that, as did the president that ousted her and just about every other leader in Pakistan. They simply called HER on it, and charged her with corruption, because it was an easy tool to use against her. She's no different than any other Pakistani leader, and is probably far LESS corrupt overall. She was certainly a progressive when it came to things like heath care and womens rights.

[MonkeyFunk]

18. Yes

that's why I want to like her. I really WANT a woman to lead a muslim nation, and do it well.

And, as I said, she has all the right enemies.

[JI7]

12. my mom said Musharafff is behind the attacks

my family is from India, but my parents get these sattelite channels from india and they report on Pakistan also.

my mom said a lot of people support Bhutto and she would win in an election against Musharaff and that's why Mush is behind the attacks.

[flordehinojos]

19. doesn't musharaff have some bush support?

could in a roundabout way bush also be behind the attack on benazir bhutto? i mean ... would her political/philosophical stand be one of "ending bush's war on terror? and ... is that why, perhaps, bush through musharaff might have given her some terror on her way back to her homeland?


wherever the attack came from it is disgusting.

[JI7]

20. my mom said something about Bush connection to Mush also

i mentioned Bin Laden and how he could be behind the attacks. she doesn't think it was him. although the question of Al Qaeda connections to Mush and Bush's refusal to go after Bin Laden might have something to do with it. while not actually working together, they all have the same goals. and Bhutto might get in the way of what all of them want.

i don't know. Pakistan is very corrupt also so it's not so clear.

[flordehinojos]

23. this thing about bhutto getting in the way of ......

the Bin-Laden - Bush - Musharaff ∆ (triangle of )... terror? evil, corruption, makes a whole lot of sense to me ... and whatever else they all want makes a whole lot of sense to me ... what will now become of benazir bhutto? will she go back into self-imposed exile? will she become a leader against musharaff? ... how very sad that the bush boy saw that the only claim to fame he could ever have in this world was to be "a war pResident" and that to do that he needed to go after his quested oil and he needed to give himself an excuse to do all of that, which, bin-laden graciously complied to give.

[MonkeyFunk]

21. no

Bush didn't try to kill Bhutto.

[aquart]

22. Let me know if it's possible to rule and not be corrupt in Pakistan.

[Canuckistanian]

24. Benazir Bhutto's husband was known as "Mr. 10 Percent"

For his tendency to demand kickbacks from every government contract.

After 8 Years in Jail, Husband of Bhutto Is Free

By SALMAN MASOOD

Published: November 23, 2004

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, Nov. 22 - Asif Ali Zardari, the husband of former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, was released Monday on $16,900 bail on the last of numerous corruption charges that have kept him in prison since 1996.

Mr. Zardari, 52, earned the nickname of "Mr. 10 Percent" while Ms. Bhutto was in office for his reputation of demanding kickbacks on government contracts, but his allies have always insisted the corruption charges were politically motivated.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/23/international/asia/23pakistan.html

[eagler]

25. Is there anything not corrupt in Pakistan?