Organic Impeachment

[H2O Man]

Part 1

"All impeachment would take is courage of members of Congress and a true love of our country, instead of loyalty to administration benefactors." – Ann Wright; retired U.S. Army Reserve Colonel (29 years) and U.S. diplomat who resigned in March 2003 in opposition to the war in Iraq; quote from her review of Elizabeth de la Vega’s "United States v. George W. Bush et al."

{1} The purpose of this thread is to offer some structure to the discussions about what DUers can do to help advance the effort to have the congress move to impeach President Bush and/or VP Dick Cheney. There are a significant number of progressive and liberal democrats on this forum who believe that the actions of Bush and Cheney pose a threat to our Constitutional democracy, and that our nation should take the action recommended by the Founding Fathers to deal with this type of threat. I encourage others who have questions or comments about how we can best advance the organic process of impeachment to participate in this thread.

In the past week, it has been interesting to engage in discussions and debates with another group of DUers, who are conservative democrats who do not want congress to impeach Bush or Cheney. This thread is not an attempt to engage them in discussion, or convince them of the wisdom of the process of impeachment. I politely request that they do not post any attempts to argue against impeachment on this thread. I respect their right to express their opinion, and even organize anti-impeachment efforts, and promise not to try to interfere with them.

Within the group of progressive democrats on DU who advocate impeachment, I recognize that there are many who know as much or more about the issues involved in pushing for impeachment as I do. Still others may have important questions that myself and others have not thought of. My goal today isn’t to deliver a message carved in stone, but rather, to share some thoughts on what our options are.

Many years ago, Malcolm X spoke of spreading your message by displaying it like a cold, clear glass of water in front of a thirsty public. If others put a dirty glass next to ours, with the filth of the Bush-Cheney administration contaminating theirs, we can be confident that the thirsty public will make the right choice. Likewise, if our conservative democratic friends place their glass, which is cleaner than the republican’s, but still has some smudges of Bush on the glass, and pieces of Cheney floating at the top, that thirsty public will make the right selection.

Now, let’s look at three of our options:

(a) Impeach Dick Cheney: This is my favorite, because I believe that VP Cheney has run a shadow government since January 2001 that poses the greatest threat to our Constitutional democracy. More, he is extremely unpopular, and although we should not expect any republicans in congress to call for his impeachment, once the process starts, most republicans would refuse to support him.

In his book "We Talk, You Listen," Vine Deloria Jr., noted, "There has never been a system yet that would not gladly sacrifice one of its own for a minute’s peace, no matter how brief. If the system is to be changed, then those who would change it should pinpoint its weak spot, its blockage points, and place all pressure on that one point until the blockage is cleared." (page 66)

I will discuss the effort to impeach Cheney in another essay this weekend. But for more information now, please use this link (DUers are encouraged to add other links):

http://www.impeachbush.tv/progress/cheney_dk.html

(b) The Feingold - Hinchey Censorship Resolution: While this is not as strong as impeachment, many progressive and liberal democrats view it as an important first step. One of the potential advantages is that this resolution has the ability to put some of the most important topics on the table, and could force members of both parties to discuss the very isues that could lead to the next step: impeachment.

This resolution will also be examined closer in another essay. It is worth our reading it with an open mind. I always try to remember that small doors often open into large rooms. Here is a link:

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny22_hinchey/morenews/080607CensureIntroduction.html

( c ) Impeach George W. Bush: The Founding Fathers included impeachment in the Constitution for the exact reasons that progressive and liberal democrats are advocating that we impeach this president. His presidency has been, to borrow a descriptive phrase from John Dean, "Worse Than Watergate." Here is a link for the Center on Constitutional Rights:

http://www.democracyinaction.org/dia/organizationsORG/ccr/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=2702

Part Two

"Let no one, he said in his most eloquent passage, be discouraged by ‘the belief there is nothing one man or one woman can do against the enormous array of the world’s ills – against misery and ignorance, injustice and violence …. Few will have the greatness to bend history itself; but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of this generation.

"It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centres of energy and daring those ripples build a current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance." Robert Kennedy & His Times; Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., page 803

{2} The process of impeachment, when done properly, is described as "organic." That means it comes from the grass roots. It takes form in the towns and cities across the country, and becomes that current that Senator Kennedy spoke of. And can anyone debate that "misery and ignorance" describes President Bush, and that "injustice and violence" define Dick Cheney?

Amendment #1 in the Bill of Rights provides citizens with their rights and responsibilities for creating ripples. We need to speak up, make creative use of the press, and petition our elected officials. Today, I am going to describe how each of us can take a couple of steps that help to change a small portion of the public perception of events. Again, other people will have different suggestions that will be of value in this effort. I am going to describe a simple method that I find works well.

There are four ways to contact one of your elected officials: write a letter that is sent by "snail-mail"; send an e-mail; make a phone call; and/or visit one of their offices. Here is what I prefer: I write letters, and send them in the mail. I try to keep the letter short and simple: three paragraphs, with about 3 to 5 sentences each.

I start by presenting my opinion. For example, "I believe that congress should impeach VP Cheney." Then I include a couple reasons why. Or it may be, "I support the Feingold - Hinchey resolution."

Next, I ask them for their opinion. This can include requesting that they read the Feingold - Hinchey resolution.

Then, I tell them that I am planning to write a letter-to-the-editor of my local newspaper(s), and am going to use their response in my next letter. Every elected official cares about what letters appear in the papers in their district. In fact, they have staff who are tasked with media relations who keep track of these things. A LTTE that is focused on the politician’s response (or lack thereof) will get their attention.

This does not mean that every politician is going to respond in the way that we may want. But that’s a good thing. It provides us with either a filthy glass or water, one with a Bush smudge and Cheney floater, or even an empty glass to put up against our cold, clear glass of water. Make sense?

I hope that this is of interest to my friends on DU, and that it sparks a good discussion.

Thank you.

[antigop]

1. I was told by a staffer to send snail mail letters -- do not e-mail

Sometime ago, a staffer told me that your correspondence will get more attention if it is sent via snail mail. He suggested that correspondence to your representatives be sent via postal service (or fax if you have the capability).

He also suggested that you send your letter(s) to the local offices in your state --not to Washington -- because it will get to the staff faster.

I don't know if this is true for all congressional offices, but I'm just passing this along as an FYI.

You can fax directly from your computer.

[antigop]

2. An additional question -- what about sending a letter to Pelosi in addition to your reps? n/t

[H2O Man]

5. I strongly recommend

that people write and call Speaker Pelosi's office. Her position puts her in a different position than other House members, in that she has a responsibility to democrats beyond those in her district.

[antigop]

11. Yes, that's what I was thinking....thanks....n/t

[EFerrari]

36. I am also soliciting blog entries for the San Francisco

Impeach Now blog. :hi:

[H2O Man]

37. How about

my old friends at The Berkeley Daily Planet? They were doing some interesting work on impeachment.

[EFerrari]

39. I haven't kept track of them. Have to check it out.

They did a nice write up for the last Beach Impeach.

[H2O Man]

40. There is/was

a Ms. Papermaster there, who I thought was nice.

[EFerrari]

41. She is very nice. I didn't know she worked at The Planet.

I was lucky enough to meet her at various protest venues.

[H2O Man]

42. Small world

sometimes.

[EFerrari]

44. Sometimes and sometimes, not small enough.

In this district, the problem seems to be that 30 of us are meeting 3 at a time in 10 places -- except for Brad's Beach Impeach actions which were designed to make it as easy as possible for the participants. Maybe that's the way it always is, I don't know.

I was hoping the blog would be a way to gather people together. It still might be.

[H2O Man]

60. It can be difficult

to get a large group together. However, I've found that there are advantages to having smaller groups of 3-5 people meet more frequently, and then with the larger group every so often. Each small group signs up for some task(s), which they accomplish in the smaller meetings.

When it comes to LTTE, I've found that 3-5 people working together can get a heck of a lot more done than a larger group can. Better quality, too.

[H2O Man]

4. Right.

Snail-mail gets a higher level of attention. And local offices are usually the best bet.

Letters to Washington DC can be slowed down if they are in a regular envelope. A few years back, one DUer (I think it was my good friend calimary) provided information that helps speed the process: Rather than using an envelope, instead fold the letter as if you were going to put it in the envelope; tape or staple it; and stamp & address as usual. This allows those who inspect in-coming congression mail to see that the letter is safe.

Faxing letters is also really good. You have provided an important addition that I didn't even think of! Thank you for that.

[antigop]

12. You're welcome. I learned a thing or two along the way....n/t

[H2O Man]

20. Yep.

We have a good pro-impeachment team here. Glad to be on the same team with you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. I can confirm this

I even got the actual office for a US Senator in the state it,

For Boxer it is her LA office

[H2O Man]

35. Yep.

It's the thing to do.

[cali]

3. I'd like to see them impeach bush and cheney concurrently

Is there any reason they couldn't do that? I've contacted my rep several times urging him to get on board, and recieved the same polite form letter back.

[Me.]

25. Shrewd Observation

about the letters. Perhaps they think people don't communicate.

[TahitiNut]

43. That would only exacerbate the partisanship.

While we recognize that, in the highly partisan climate of today, only the opposition party weems willing to contemplate the impeachment of an elected offical, it SHOULDN'T ("ideally") be that way.

Any attempt to impeach both simultaneously (unprecedented) would immediately attract accusations of "COUP!" and muddy the waters. (Pelosi being 3rd in line.) It MUST be about the crimes! No matter how complicit we might believe partisan loyalties cause people to be in such crimes, it must not be further corrupted.

There's a difference (even though we lose sight of it) between "political" and "partisan."

[zippy890]

6. could someone post Pelosi's snail mail address?

for conveience.

I will be happy to write her and my own congesspeople via their snail mail.

- I do think it is a good idea to write by regular mail.

thanks

[H2O Man]

9. Here is the DC address & number:

Office of the Speaker
H-232, US Capitol
Washington, DC 20515
[phone]

If others have her "local" office address(es) and/or fax #, it would be appreciated.

[antigop]

14. Weird -- I couldn't find the info on her website, but another site listed this info...

I don't know if it is accurate or not:

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bio/?id=447
Contact Information

Web Site: www.house.gov/pelosi
E-mail: [e-mail]

Washington Office:
235 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-0508
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Main District Office:
450 Golden Gate Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94102
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

[EFerrari]

38. That is the address of her district office. n/t

[Hubert Flottz]

7. K&R

Some good ideas indeed!

[countingbluecars]

8. Good information!

I had written off the the Feingold - Hinchey Censorship Resolution as not enough, but you make good sense about it being a first step and a means of putting topics on the table for discussion.

I also appreciate the useful information on ways to contact my elected officials.

[H2O Man]

13. I spent a

good bit of time on the phone with an associate in Washington DC yesterday. I asked his opinion about the Feingold - Hinchey resolution, which had been discussed at the Teach-In on Impeachment in Binghamton on Saturday. Although he is intent upon impeachment, he said that the progressive grass roots should support the resolution to censor because it moves the process along in the direction we want.

[lonestarnot]

10. OK but,

the letter writing hasn't done anything.

[H2O Man]

15. I understand.

But it is only 1/2 the process. It has to be followed up with the LTTE, or it only has a fraction of the power it can have. Perhaps letter writing hasn't had the impact it should, because politicians are aware that few if any activists are taking that very important second step.

A little exercise: make a phone call to one politicians office, and tell them that you want Cheney impeached, or you want their opinion on the Feingold-Hinchey resolution. Call another politician, and tell them that you are a grass roots journalist, who participates in democratic discussion sites on the internet, who blogs, and that you are writing a LTTE of your local paper about that politician's stance on impeaching Cheney, or on the censor resolution. There is usually a different response.

[lonestarnot]

68. OK... but

have done that too.

[porphyrian]

16. Have you checked out the Impeachment Group on DU yet?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=401

You might want to cross-post this.

[H2O Man]

18. I have.

You are right, of course. Being a creature of habit, I tend to stick with DU:GD. But it would be best to make this a coordinated effort, especially as others with a lot to contribute and who are already very active in this effort are found in that group.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

17. Lying, spying and torture.

I've noticed lttes written by out-of-staters getting published. I thought that was interesting.

Wish we could have a network ensuring every major newspaper in every state was covered. I haven't clicked on your impeachbush link. Are they a growing grassroots body?

[H2O Man]

19. One of the things

I found interesting was to study the set-up that the Nixon White House had for influencing the media with LTTE. One of the things I've found is that it is just as important to target the small and medium newspapers, as the large ones. There are three medium and four small newspapers in my area. I'm far more likely to get a LTTE or an "guest" op-ed in all seven of these, than a single letter in a large newspaper. And the folks working in the elected official's local offices are keeping track of these. As Tip O'Neill said, all politics are local.

The Center for Constitutional Rights is an important organization, which has staff who done work similar to the ACLU. Over the decades, when I've called one or the other with a question or a request, I've found that many of their staffs are pretty closely associated. I have great respect for the CCR because they have great respect for our Constitution. I urge everyone to support their efforts.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

21. Another thing I've noticed about lttes,...

,...the ones with a concerned voice rather than an enraged one get far more positive reception/responses.

[H2O Man]

22. Absolutely.

That's another aspect of the clean, cool glass of water vs the dirty, hot glass. It tends to be the same in LTTE or phone calls to congress, or even posts on DU. The calm, rational voice is better than the angry, irrational one.

[Annces]

23. Tapping into the Universal Mind

is also useful. You could end up getting just the right information out of nowhere on DU. It happened to me a couple of times. Synchronicity.

You have a lot of good influence.

[H2O Man]

24. Thank you.

DU is a good place to be.

[Raksha]

53. I don't want to get into specifics here, but synchronicity

has been working overtime with me these days! And I agree that H2OMan has a lot of good influence...starting with DU of course, but spreading out from there like ripples in water when a stone is thrown in.

[H2O Man]

61. Thank you n/t

[hootinholler]

26. A small nit, too late to edit...

It's censure (a reprimand) not censor (stifling speech)

Good solid ideas and willing to help.

-Hoot

[H2O Man]

28. Yikes!

Spelling -- not my strong point, especially in the morning!

[hootinholler]

29. I would also like to point out that censure is really the only option available to a Senator

Until the House gets off its ass and passes an impeachment resolution.

-Hoot

[H2O Man]

30. Good point.

I think that the Feingold- Hinchey resolution is worthy of our support.

[H2O Man]

27. Please note:

"What this tells us is that although Administration officials, informed by the highest ranking members of our own intelligence operation, knew the claim of Niger uranium going to Niger was ‘weak’ and could not be confirmed, they were still determined to use it in the president’s address to Congress and fell back on the dubious language of the British report. The administration clearly sought to cover up their own officials’ doubts about Iraq’s nuclear capabilities and hide those doubts from the Congress and the US public.

"A motive for making such false and fraudulent uranium claims would have been to thwart Congressional and UN efforts to delay the start of the war. Pending at the time the Administration made its uranium claims in July 2003 was a Congressional resolution, H.Con.Res.2, submitted by five members of Congress on January 7, 2003, which expressed the sense of Congress that it should repeal its earlier resolution to allow more time for UN weapons inspectors to finish their work. On January 24, 2003, a few days prior to the State of the Union Address, 130 members of Congress wrote to the president encouraging him to consider any request by the UN for additional time for weapons inspection. On February 5, 2003, 30 members of Congress submitted another resolution, H.J.Res.20, to actually repeal the war resolution.

"Had it not been for the uranium claims in the Union Address, which sought to squelch congressional concern over the impetus for the pending war, the number of sponsors for H.J.Res.20 would have been far greater. The influence of the uranium claims can be seen in the fact that 130 members of Congress signed the letter before the State of the Union Address, but only 30 sponsored H.J.Res.20, which was introduced after the speech. The Administration’s uranium claim thwarted the congressional efforts to delay the start of the war since the Administration used the claims to allege that Iraq had a nuclear weapons program – despite the failure of the UN inspectors to find such a program – and thus falsely assert that Iraq posed an immediate threat that needed to be nullified without further delay." – Rep. Maurice Hinchey’s letter to Patrick Fitzgerald, co-signed by 40 congressional colleagues; 9-15-2005


A number of democrats in congress have attempted to get the information uncovered by Mr. Fitzgerald's investigation, other than that made public in the Libby trial. The Bush Department of Justice has stone-walled all attempts. The truth is that people already know much of the information, and it can be used to convict Cheney in the Senate if the congress were to impeach him.

[Me.]

31. I'm Happy To Kick

This to the top.

[H2O Man]

32. In that case,

I'll add an almost Mary Tyler Moore-ish upbeat and happy quote:

"Any American patriot who would like to see a grand jury challenge this Administration's blitzkrieg against our constitution will relish Elizabeth de la Vega's 'United States v. George W. Bush et al.' Machiavelli believed fraud was laudable and glorious in matters of war. In her book, Ms. de la Vega invites us into the courtroom to consider the indictment of our modern day Machiavellis and the fraud they've perpetrated." -- Edward Ashner

[Swamp Rat]

34. k&r

[robertpaulsen]

45. Good advice from you, Malcolm and Bobby.

I've written to a couple different Congresspersons with no response. I think that your advice to coordinate it with a LTTE sounds like it will have the greatest effect. Real cold glass of water to wake them up! I'll start with my rep, Howard Berman. He's a Dem, but I'm not sure what his stand is on impeachment or censure.

Great quote from Schlesinger's book, which I read at your recommendation and loved. Right now I'm reading The Asssassination of Robert F. Kennedy by William Turner and Jonn Christian. Have you read it? It's surprising to see Vincent Bugliosi exploring the possibility of a conspiracy in RFK's assassination.

[H2O Man]

46. Very familiar.

And it has a civil case in which Mr. Bugliosi entered evidence of a conspiracy. The book was "not available" for many years.

[Gregorian]

47. There is something bothering me about the organic lack of momentum.

But first, I want to say that you have done a thorough job of painting a picture of the process of stopping the virus that is in our administration.

Knowing what we know, it has always surprised me that so little has happened in the way of actions toward the removal of the flagrant violators in the Bush administration. The Feingold Censure frictionlessly flowed into history. HR333 was all but ignored. They still sit pending, but it's the lack of massive attraction that has alarmed me. I'm really backing up a step from your post. I'm asking why these motions have gained almost no traction. And asking what we can do to remedy that. My gut feeling says that it's the commercial media. The big tv stations. And their refusal to run anything counter to the sitting administration. Is that it? Is it that the people of this country need to see it on tv? Or are the people outraged, and Congress is resisting to act? We know Cheney's approval rating. So perhaps contrary to what I just said, I don't think it's the people. And that gives me hope. But then that would leave at least two other major facets to this situation. One would be that the people need to take further action. Perhaps a concerted protest. Now we know that would work. Millions of Americans crying out for impeachment. And part of my reason for posting this would be to ask why millions of Americans are not crying out in protest. The other would involve Congress. And I do not know how we address Congress in order to move forward with impeachment or censure. We seem to be confused by even Conyers. Right now I am not certain he supports impeachment, from some of his past statements.

So really I am thinking that there are two things that need to happen. Get the American people organized. And petition Congress to move forward with resolutions.

I know this is a simple suggestion. And only two among how many I don't know. But it could require a great amount of effort to accomplish. That being a discussion in it's own right.

[H2O Man]

48. Valid points.

The other night at the Teach-In on Impeachment, a sociologist spoke after my daughter. He talked about hos the republican party invests a lot of funding in their grass roots .... that they make sure the small organizations get enough funding to have the most impact.

In recent years, the democratic party has focused a lot on raising money for candidates and Washington-based groups. I think that people at the grass roots level should consider the option of donating primarily to the small, local groups. The national party folks are getting corporate dollars. We should be funding progressive democratic grass roots groups.

Earlier this week, a person from a campaign that I have donated to X3 called. She said she was sending me an envelope, and hoped I'd put $100 in it. I was polite, and said that I am not going to donate another penny to a candidate that is not promoting a stance on Iraq or impeachment that I agree with. I'm not opposed to that candidate, and will definitely vote for the democratic nominee in '08. But that $100 is going elsewhere.

I began to explain where, but she hung up. That happens sometimes.

[Gregorian]

49. What about time?

If we were talking about a decade of time to make a change, I would agree that the bottom would be a place to start. But that seems to me to be a slow process. Now I'm not saying the bottom isn't the place to start, but maybe there is a better way to start it. Perhaps Dean is the one to get the message out to the smaller groups? I don't know enough about the details. But I'm thinking big money infused into the roots. With a message. Like an internal combustion engine. The fuel is there. A small spark could start the movement. I don't see trying to light each molecule as an effective way to go in what I consider to be an emergency.

[EFerrari]

50. I don't really have an answer to your question but submit that

supporting impeachment in Pelosi's district would be a good investment just about now.

There are many groups collaborating but we don't seem to have the glue or something. Maybe there are so many fires, we don't know which one to fight first. When I came home from the January DC protest, I decided to take on impeachment in this district because it seemed to me to be the most efficient way to derail BushCo's suicidal policy in the Middle East -- and a host of other bad policies, let alone the outright criminality of his administration.

We need all the support, and in any form, that we can get.

[Gregorian]

52. Yes. That's probably the most important avenue.

I think you're totally right. Once she's on board, the rest follows.

But there is one thing that I am not confident about. We rely on her. I'm thinking a massive movement of citizens would pressure the whole of Congress. But actually, it would still rest on her decision. Man, what a situation we find ourselves in.

So what's the best way to get Speaker Pelosi to wake up and move? I'm lost on this one. And I'm sure you have ideas. Surely she has seen the crimes they've committed. Crimes.

[EFerrari]

54. My sense is that Nancy has been given marching orders

from the party string pullers. That this is not necessarily her independent decision but, I'm not Miss Clio.

The more visibility we can get in the district, the better. Because Pelosi won't sacrifice her position for anyone.

[Gregorian]

55. Going off topic sort of, but what do you think of this?

Could the administration have rewarded certain members of Congress for not initiating impeachment? Like saying they could have unlimited funds for their districts if they just behave?

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Fucked up but possible

especially since it is the congress that suposedly controls the purse strings


Tin foil hat moment

They were theratened by the administratin that if they do anything remotely oposing them... there will be consequences

And I base this on how things have gotten really weird, espeically after a certain B-52 flew around the country

Yep, USAF personel are loosing careers, but nobody is being court martialed...

And we still have a litltle disrepancy with number of nukes

Then the other one... them phone taps have been going on since bush took over... what dirt do they have on them or family?

[EFerrari]

57. Yes, I think a deal has been cut that the electorate is not a party to.

But I also believe that deal is subject to change if the electorate gets their act together in a clear and public way.

[H2O Man]

58. Another possibility .....

and I say this, because I have been told it is true, is that she is taking a position that she thinks is better for the democratic party, and that she believes keeps her from looking like she is trying to push her way into office. I think she is sincere. I also think she is sincerely wrong on this.

[EFerrari]

63. I find that hard to believe as she's never shown any desire at all

to run for the presidency.

I tend to believe she is helping to protect Clinton's run.

[H2O Man]

64. Yeah.

Right -- she is not trying to advance herself. You are correct. I believe we are saying about the same thing.

[H2O Man]

62. Interesting question.

My perception of time is probably different than most other's. It is a measure of meaningful action. But it is also "now" -- always.

In Al Gore's recent works, he is saying that in order for people to effect change, they must change. And of course he is right. We can't effect change by staying the same.

When any one thing changes, everything around it must change. It adjusts. So, in my opinion, we change what is around us, on the grass roots level, in order to prepare the foundation for changes in the state capitals and in Washington, DC.

[Raksha]

51. K&R, bookmarked.

There's some very good information here on concrete actions we can take. That always seems to be what I need the most--i.e. ways to "ground" an idea or an ideal and translate the abstract into real-world actions. Unfortunately, I'm not very good at that left to my own devices.

[H2O Man]

59. I think that

there is a good core team at DU who provide assistance to one another on these projects.

[earth mom]

65. K & R! nt

[burrowowl]

66. K&R

[Lochloosa]

67. Kick for later reading