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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 09:41 AM
Original message
Need some help on this one -- NYSE
Has the New York Stock Exchange become completely divorced from what is happening in the US economy?

I don't fully understand why it is at record highs with the US dollar collapsing, the US housing market in the gutter, and oil topping $90 a barrel.

Unless it is because all these things are good for business REGARDLESS of whether or not they are good for the US.

If this is true -- that the NYSE is climbing because of America's demise, what does that make stock traders on the NYSE?

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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. Krugman predicted a few months ago that the economic recession of 08...
would not be reflected in the stock market.
I think the weak dollar has something to do with todays stock prices. Like the price of oil priced in dollars it has to rise if the dollar falls.
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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. He's a smart guy...
But why is this so? Did he say?
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. The Big Market Meltdown




By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: March 2, 2007
FEB. 27, 2008


Paul Krugman.



The great market meltdown of 2007 began exactly a year ago, with a 9 percent fall in the Shanghai market, followed by a 416-point slide in the Dow. But as in the previous global financial crisis, which began with the devaluation of Thailand’s currency in the summer of 1997, it took many months before people realized how far the damage would spread.

At the start, all sorts of implausible explanations were offered for the drop in U.S. stock prices. It was, some said, the fault of Alan Greenspan, the former chairman of the Federal Reserve, as if his statement of the obvious — that the housing slump could possibly cause a recession — had been news to anyone. One Republican congressman blamed Representative John Murtha, claiming that his efforts to stop the “surge” in Iraq had somehow unnerved the markets.

Even blaming events in Shanghai for what happened in New York was foolish on its face, except to the extent that the slump in China — whose stock markets had a combined valuation of only about 5 percent of the U.S. markets’ valuation — served as a wake-up call for investors.

The truth is that efforts to pin the stock decline on any particular piece of news are a waste of time.

Wise analysts remember the classic study that Robert Shiller of Yale carried out during the market crash of Oct. 19, 1987. His conclusion? “No news story or rumor appearing on the 19th or over the preceding weekend was responsible.” In 2007, as in 1987, investors rushed for the exits not because of external events, but because they saw other investors doing the same.

What made the market so vulnerable to panic? It wasn’t so much a matter of irrational exuberance — although there was plenty of that, too — as it was a matter of irrational complacency.

After the bursting of the technology bubble of the 1990s failed to produce a global disaster, investors began to act as if nothing bad would ever happen again. Risk premiums — the extra return people demand when lending money to less than totally reliable borrowers — dwindled away.

For example, in the early years of the decade, high-yield corporate bonds (formerly known as junk bonds) were able to attract buyers only by offering interest rates eight to 10 percentage points higher than U.S. government bonds. By early 2007, that margin was down to little more than two percentage points.

For a while, growing complacency became a self-fulfilling prophecy. As the what-me-worry attitude spread, it became easier for questionable borrowers to roll over their debts, so default rates went down. Also, falling interest rates on risky bonds meant higher prices for those bonds, so those who owned such bonds experienced big capital gains, leading even more investors to conclude that risk was a thing of the past.

Sooner or later, however, reality was bound to intrude. By early 2007, the collapse of the U.S. housing boom had brought with it widespread defaults on subprime mortgages — loans to home buyers who fail to meet the strictest lending standards. Lenders insisted that this was an isolated problem, which wouldn’t spread to the rest of the market or to the real economy. But it did.

For a couple of months after the shock of Feb. 27, markets oscillated wildly, soaring on bits of apparent good news, then plunging again. But by late spring, it was clear that the self-reinforcing cycle of complacency had given way to a self-reinforcing cycle of anxiety.

There was still one big unknown: had large market players, hedge funds in particular, taken on so much leverage — borrowing to buy risky assets — that the falling prices of those assets would set off a chain reaction of defaults and bankruptcies? Now, as we survey the financial wreckage of a global recession, we know the answer.

In retrospect, the complacency of investors on the eve of the crisis seems puzzling. Why didn’t they see the risks?

Well, things always seem clearer with the benefit of hindsight. At the time, even pessimists were unsure of their ground. For example, Paul Krugman concluded a column published on March 2, 2007, which described how a financial meltdown might happen, by hedging his bets, declaring that: “I’m not saying that things will actually play out this way. But if we’re going to have a crisis, here’s how.”
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-19-07 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. The exchanges are one small aspect of the overall economy
There are two stock exchanges in the United States: the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) and the American Stock And Options Exchange (AMEX.) There is also the National Association of Securities Dealers Automated Quotations (NASDAQ) system, which is not an exchange per se but a listing company that facilitates mainly "over the counter" (OTC) trades of stocks not listed in the exchanges.

The strength of the exchanges and various market indexes reflect confidence in American corporations. The freefall of the US dollar in comparison to other currencies reflects a lack of confidence in the American economy. Normally, these go hand-in-hand. Right now and for the last several years, the dollar has been falling for political reasons. We have become a pariah nation thanks to the Junta, and investors are bailing on our currency causing it to fall. That has only slightly tarnished the attractiveness of stock in American companies, which means they remain relatively strong. In addition, the loss of foreign investors can be made up American investors deciding to invest at home rather than in foreign stocks.
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