A lot of irony in "Old Time Religion"

[appalachianguy]

I come from a place where religion is a powerful influence
on the culture that embraces it.
Different religious beliefs cause more hatred and strife
than nay other single subject locally and more so internationally.
Greed would run a close second in those categories. It's the supposed reason behind 9/11 as the core rationale. People
will just have to decide that for themselves.
Most of the basis of Christianity has nothing to do with the "rich"
or the powerful or prestigious. Someone needs to tell Pat Robertson
and some of his buddies in the "Mindustry" what Christianity means. Not that it would matter much. No one needs to take people's money to make them feel
guilty about the world's problems. Plenty of others will do that for free.

AppGuy

[Warpy]

1. Ah, but you've missed an important point.

All that money they rake in isn't to make people feel guilty. It's to make them feel they've successfully bribed their way out of hell.

[Acadia Blue]

4. I think they feel they deserved it "Cavinism," Catholics and Jews feel

the guilt thing. The fundamentalists, not the Carter and Huckabee kind which are old school, believe they have acquired their wealth because God favors them Catholics and Jews feel guilt and feel they must give back.
I live in a totally ignorant place that is the buckle of the bible belt.

[dflprincess]

2. Last weekend I heard on NPR that a poll taken of members of mainstream

Christian denominations indicated that the majority of them did not identify themselves as "Christian" because they feel the term has taken on so many negative connotations. I wasn't paying much attention so I can't say who did the poll or when it was taken. I was just somewhat relieved to hear this as, when I hear someone say they're a "Christian", I usually check to make sure my wallet is in a safe place.

[Acadia Blue]

6. I believe that is true. I am a spiritual person open to liberal religion

and I no longer define myself as a Christian but am leaning towards Buddhism because of the belief in peaceful co-existance with all God's creatures, and compassion. BTW I did a study of the New Testament in College and in my paper, the Compassion of the Christ was what I saw as very significant.

[appalachianguy]

7. Fringe Christian

Hi Acadia,

Good to hear from you concerning your beliefs. I still consider
myself to be a Christian, but not a very good one by anyone's
standards. I like the general theme of Buddhism because of the
harmony between man and the natural world. I also think your
mention of the Compassion of Christ is significant because that
really is the bottom line in most of our lifetime experiences.

AG

[JuniperLea]

3. Welcome to DU!

I was raised in a Fundy family. The experience has left me Agnostic... I don't deal well with hypocrisy and condescension.

What I've come away from Christianity with is simple:

1) Money is the root of all evil, so why would Jesus "bless" anyone with money? If I were wealthy, and truly believed I was being "blessed" with money, I'd be giving it all away so fast your head would spin.

2) Why would Jesus, the Prince of Peace, condone war?

3) Why would God hate, or condone anyone else to hate?

4) Why are there still poor and homeless left in this world of plenty, when Jesus has told us that howsoever we treat the lesser of our brothers is how we treat Jesus?

I dunno... just asking.

[appalachianguy]

5. Lot of good points

Hi Juniperx,

Thanks for the welcome!

I agree with everything in threads added to my post.
I like the guilt scenario because it's the gift that keeps on taking!
The comments about Christians being shy about public affiliations.
All the reasons concerning what Christ would and would not be in
dealing with the basic themes of life and failures of today's
church in dealing with these discussions.

AG

[dflprincess]

10. Actually the quote is "the love of money that is the root of all evil'

Money itself may be used to do good or evil - it all depends on whose hands the money has fallen into. It goes nicely with "unto whom much has been given, much will be expected."

[TygrBright]

8. Even more ironic: "Old Time" religion isn't really "Old Time" at all!

Many of the elements of fundie psychosis (millenialism, dispensationalism, etc.) only emerged in the nineteenth century and didn't really catch on until the early 20th century.

Prior to that, many fundamentalist Protestant denominations were vigorous supporters of Church/State separation, since they felt that mainstream denominations held too much political power, and that the smaller sects they belonged to were marginalized by a "Christian" polity that defined "Christian" in terms of the very broad-based, 'watered-down' (to them) theologies of the mainstream Episcopalian, Lutheran and Presbyterians. Baptists were not yet consolidated into the juggernaut Southern Baptist coalition/denomination, they were still very much defined by varying and somewhat regionalized theological interpretations. Those smaller sects embraced the concept of keeping religion out of politics and government altogether.

They were also fiercely attached to their local congregations and while they supported "missionary" efforts to "heathen" parts of the world when surplus cash was available, they focused their evangelical fervor on expanding the local congregation and gaining acceptance among their own and other Christian sects for their particular theological interpretations. There was no sense of needing to "evangelize" as a pseudo-patriotic expression of how their faith informed their participation in the political and social life of the greater community.

Most of all, they still had a sense of Christianity and Christian evangelism as a vehicle for PERSONAL transformation; that is, they expressed their faith as a way of increasing their own faith and bringing their OWN actions into harmony with the principles of their religion. This is analogous to the Islamic concept of "jihad" as the personal spiritual battle for self-transformation, as opposed to an external war against those who disagree with or differ with your faith.

That's the real "Old Time Religion" that you would find in small, poor, rural communities in America's Midwest and South and Appalachian regions right up until radio and television provided the Billy Sundays and Aimee Semple McPhersons with a tool for getting rich while "spreading the message."

The current perversion identified as "Old Time Religion" is a phenomenon closely related to the growth of mass communications, and hence, not very "old" at all. It is more strongly influenced by the psychology of mass communications, the coldly technical aspects of how to form affinity bonds across the widest social band and how to promote individual identification with a directed group agenda, than by the Bible and the early Church writers.

sadly,
Bright

[appalachianguy]

9. Excellent Thesis A+

Hello T-Bright,

I believe that nickname suits you well - and that's not sarcasm!

I enjoyed your writings, but I honestly don't know if I can wrap
my menial mind around all that information. It's quite interesting
material and it encompasses the subject of my post as thoroughly
as possible. I have a friend with a Theology Degree he obtained in
New Zealand. He used to be part of the inter-workings of a
"charismatic" church in NZ. There's not much difference between
their classic church mentalities and ours from what I could gather.
My friend is a little rusty in his studies, but he is quite knowledgeable
in the teachings of the scriptures in various languages and such.
We have some intriguing conversations in retrospect to his past life
and his present life back in the US in the Church of Reality.
Thanks for all your input - it is a nice piece of work!

AppGuy