Stocks tumbling

[malaise]

Dow -362. MSNBC

Wait until they drop like Bush's numbers.

add MSNBC, Sp.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Wow need to check

[malaise]

2. The irony is today is the anniversary of Black Monday

Damn!

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Well I will not be suprised

there are good reasons for what is going on

They will try to stem the tie until the dems take over... if they can

[lpbk2713]

19. Spooky

Right to the exact date.

[A HERETIC I AM]

3. And then what?

Wait until they drop like Bush's numbers.

And what should we wait for?

At the close, Dow down 369.38 @ 13519.83
Biggest loser of the Dow 30 - 3M Corp Down 8.11
All 30 of them down today
Google, meanwhile up 5.83

Hmmm...seems like everything is on sale for Monday

[LSK]

5. I just heard down 370

[RB TexLa]

6. Wow! down a whole 2.64% OMG, how will the market take such a hit?

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Free clue

that is not good, by any standard

Those with half a clue KNOW THAT

You just like to make fun

But wanna bet this is GOING TO MAKE EXPERTS IN THE FINANTIAL MARKETS nervous?

And by the by... this is part of the subprime mess

[RB TexLa]

8. Mortgage players were down but everyone was down as lower earnings are set to come out

and people rushed to saftey. All economies have to contract from time to time.

[Dr.Phool]

9. Yeah, and somebody put a contract out on this one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. I am truly amazed

I don't think our friend will EVER put the blame where it belongs

NEO LIBERAL economics

VOODOO economics

Deregulation

[yardwork]

10. I heard it's all Clinton's fault.

[DearAbby]

14. Ah gee, where did he "whip" it our now? nt

[Xenotime]

11. Looks like the economic bubble has begun to burst

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. It's been doing it in slow mo

for the last three or four months

[lpbk2713]

12. Must be that $2 Mill the freepers paid for OxyRush's letter that made the market take a dump.

:sarcasm:

Those clowns are so goddam stupid. It should be illegal for them to procreate.



:rofl: :rofl:

[Malikshah]

13. I was concerned until the one article mentioned that the Crash of

87 was a 23% drop.

There's a big difference between 2% and 23%.

Wake me up at 15% and then I'll prepare to break out in assholes and shit myself to death. :)

[skids]

17. Wake up and smell the inflation.

The dollar is down 10%+ YoY, and the DOW is valued in dollars.

If you are waiting for a 15% one-day drop, it won't happen -- the markets these days automatically shut down.

[Malikshah]

24. Trust me, I'm concerned. Not about the markets, though.

More like the mad dash from the dollar, peak oil, gap between the wealthy and poor, and the general feeling of malaise in the country.

[rjones2818]

18. Here's the problem...

The market was having liquidity problems (probably still there, actually) until the Fed cut the Prime about a month ago (plus there were billions of dollars pumped into the system). That stemmed the credit crisis for a bit. Now we see that the credit crisis is spreading, likely another credit cruch, does the Fed dare cut interest rates again? The spectre of inflation (even hyperinflation) is there. We're walking on a knife's edge (about a year and a half ago there was the spectre of deflation) and even the most resourceful Fed managers might not be able to overcome structural problems in the economy (and the great big zits known as Dick and W).

Plus there's the devaulation of the dollar that's been going on for several years now....

[Mike03]

20. Painful but not Lethal

A 2,000 point drop would be a harsh correction, and I believe there are curbs in place to prevent a drop more than 1500.

This is a much saner discussion about the market dip today; on another thread they seem to be hoping the market crashes--as if that would only hurt the wealthiest 1%--presumably Repukes who would never donate to Liberal Democratic causes. As if no good Liberals are wealthy.

The wealthy know this is coming, and they are either shorting the market or investing in more exotic and sophisticated instruments that go up when the blue chip type equities go down. Or more obvious havens such as foreign funds, currencies, metals and mining, energy, etc...

The bulk of mutual funds are probably held in retirement accounts--middle class Americans. I would not be hoping for a crash.

[AdHocSolver]

21. The stock market won't bring down the economy. The trade deficit and the fedral deficit will do it.

People who focus on the stock market as a bellweather of the economy are looking at the wrong barometer. You have to start with basic definitions.

The economy consists of a "flow" of goods and services and the circulation of money. Economic collapse means that people lose their income ("jobs", for most people) and thus have no money to spend on goods and services. Another cause of economic collapse would be hyperinflation. Prices rise so fast that money becomes worthless so that the flow of goods and services stops.

There is no one "market". There are numerous markets. There is an oil market, a cattle market, a grain market, a soft drink market, an automobile market, and a stock market. The stock market does not determine the economy, as the rich and the corporatists would have you believe, any more than the grain market does.

A market is merely a group of buyers and sellers for a particular kind of item or category of items. Markets often overlap. However, prices and availability of items within a market is determined by supply and demand. Supply is the availability of an item for sale. Demand is defined as the number of entities with cash or credit ready and able to buy items for sale within the market. When supply is low and/or demand is high, buyers offer more money for items to ensure that they obtain some of the items for themselves. This is bidding up the price. When supply is high and demand is low, sellers reduce their prices to "get rid of inventory" so that they get some return on their assets.

Theoretically, stock prices go up when a company's earnings go up, or look like they will go up, because the buyer expects to share in that increase. The return on investment will occur because the company will pay dividends from its earnings increase, or the stock price will rise as buyers bid up the price, and the stock seller can realize capital gains.

In reality things don't usually work this way. Enron's stock went skyward because the executives were cooking the books to make what was actually debt look like profit. People bought Enron stock in volume (increase in demand) driving the price up based on fraudulent profit increases. The reality was irrelavant.

In the same way, Greenspan "cooked the books" by lowering the interest rates below any rational value, so that the middle class was duped into taking their savings out of insured savings accounts and investing it in stocks. The hordes of people pouring their life savings into the stock market (high demand) pushed the stock prices up way beyond the inherent value of the shares of stock themselves. What occurred was a form of stock price inflation. The result was a transfer of middle class assets from the middle class to the wealthy class.

The wealthy, like the Enron executives, among numerous others, have already taken their profit out of this stock market swindle, and they received timely tax cuts to be able to keep it all.

The real enabler of an economic collapse will come from the trade deficits and the Federal deficit. It will occur in the same way that the subprime mortgage market has collapsed the real estate market. When people can't pay their bills, then the Dow averages become irrelevant.

[Mike03]

23. Great Explanation

But would you not agree that these things are all interconnected? I don't see it as one or two factors, but a web of interdependent factors that would include not only the twin deficits but inflation, loss of U.S. dollar buying power (and international credibility), housing bubble, adjusting ARMS, pinched consumer spending, the perception caused by the failure or suspected failure of well known banks and thrifts, etc... What about the drop in retail/consumer discretionary spending?

[spanone]

22. not good........didn't junior tells us the economy was 'robust'? or was that his coffee?