On what basis do conservatives insist Darfur = genocide; whereas, Iraq does not?

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

I'll be honest. I haven't collected all the facts surrounding Darfur. I've read several articles including this one:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-10-03-darfur-carter_N.htm

It's interesting to me that Darfur is suddenly getting so much attention when an identifiable sect of people in Rwanda screamed of a hellish violence and destruction unacknowledged until the enablers were revealed. Please forgive me as I spew thoughts on commercials about Darfur. Do YOU see or hear any facts showing a certain, identifiable sect being mass murdered by the powers-that-be?

Can you produce any evidence that the persistent human mayhem in Darfur has NOT involved a cross-section of everyone in/from Darfur (unless "poor" or "least influential" is ever acknowledged as a "class" of people) being abused/tortured/raped/murdered? I've searched myself blind and CAN NOT FIND ANY EVIDENCE THAT PEOPLE ARE DYING BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE, RELIGION, GENDER,...can you produce that evidence?

I am a human rights activist. Sadly, I see human rights being violated every damn day. I still know the difference between human rights and genocide. Don't you? Imagine a power that not only WANTS to extinguish you but also acts on it (close to home, huh).

The conservatives are now pushing the Darfur genocide commercial. 200,000 people of mixed backgrounds have died and two million are displaced from a country that has been in a civil war.

Now, let us compare another event involving the U.S.A:

The executive branch of that country (USA) declared (without moral or legal grounds) and perpetuated/s war against another sovereign nation (IRAQ) that had no resources and no demonstrable EVIDENCE OF INTENT to threaten the safety of the warring/occupying nation. Since the unlawful "shock and awe" military devastation of that non-threatening nation (IRAQ), anywhere from 500,00 to 1,000,000 or more Iraqis (all brown-skinned and Muslim, clearly a recognized "class" of people) have been killed, several millions have been displaced both within and with out the country, the numbers of those who have been and are being abused/tortured/raped are withheld from public knowledge, and the entire people have and ARE obviously suffering lack of basic human needs (and we'll set aside the fact their infrastructure isn't anywhere near pre-war conditions).

As a rational (rejecting the junta's 'amoral' excuse for being barbaric) HUMAN BEING, I know it is evil to even consider waging MASS destruction, killing mostly innocent people, as a POSSIBLE RESORT to either protecting one people or another from either themselves or a junta recklessly wreaking crimes against them. As a simple human being, I wouldn't treat my neighbors' conflict about their property line (which, could, possibly, disrupt my peace) by burning down their homes, at night, when their families are present in order to ensure the safety of me and, I would HAVE TO SUGGEST, my family and my other neighbors and community, etc.(gawd forbid I PREFER one over the other and choose to destroy one family over the other) No.

I am a simple human being,...but,...I think, about stuff. In terms of the conflict in Darfur, I think about how the greatest loss of American lives among all wars occurred during our very own civil conflict. We sacrificed millions of lives over struggles, it sadly appears, we have failed to work out to this very day. Comparably speaking, the loss of life in Darfur pales to what we lost.

Ah, but, Darfur is being cast as a genocidal event rather than civil struggle Unless you are prepared to defend the portion of humanity otherwise called the "less advantaged" or "poor" or "economic minority" or "welfare queens" or "disadvantaged" or "oppressed" as an identifiable class of people worthy of protection from destruction, genocide can't fit what's happening in that country. Otherwise, global genocide is happening and YOU may very well be the victim.

At any rate, Darfur has been a country commonly recognized in civil conflict (hell, even our powerfully smirky facade for Chenycrat's shadow government admitted it and INVOLVED himself in working peace negotiations????). In the last several months, the circumstances in that country is suddenly being RAISED as genocidal while my own country, STRIKE THAT, my executive branch of government has and is engaging in activities that, from a strictly simple and rational point of view, could MORE EASILY BE CHARACTERIZED AS GENOCIDAL.

I know, as a simple yet thinking human being, my own "government" (corporate/media/energy/military complex) intentionally imposes perception management. I'd be surprised if anyone, even the most loyal to our junta, would deny it. Muddling clear common human perceptions is our junta's objective. Their "war of ideas" was always a war on reality and a relentless, taxpayer-funded campaign to manage our perceptions. I don't mean to insult you by repeating what you already know.

Anyhoots, I haven't even looked at whether there is an economic vantage point concerning Darfur. But, considering what has happened in Iraq and what is happening in Iraq atop the persistent propaganda against Syria and Iran firmly advantaging the neocon/PNAC agenda,what is clearly left as the U.S. begins and effectuates and perpetuates abuse/torture/violence/death/displacement is a Muslim population, an identifiable "class" of people.

No matter how discomforting the facts of these matters may be to any one, I have to ask how a rational person can deny WHAT IS: a massively devastating and enduring violence in a non-threatening sovereignty by a FOREIGN nation against a Muslim population in the course of an UNLAWFUL war and occupation. Is that genocide?

OR Is ,...a nation having been engaged in an internationally acknowledged long-term INTRA-COUNTRY civil struggle (discussion about the outside influences can be discussed separately should we *lol* discover foreign corporacrats had/ve a hand in the strife)and ALL people (unless you want to change the poor/disaffected/powerless into a protected human genre) have been violated?

Before I press the "post message" button, I have to confess,...a,...pre-cognition of mental acrobats and maneuvering and projecting and "Americanism" and circular debate and all that shit supremely mastered by the masters of messaging. Nevertheless, there is the possibility that a people, their losses unimaginable to most reading and responding, will be acknowledged. I, for one, am sorry I couldn't do more to reign in the leashes of human evil on this side of the earth.

For the Iraqi people, let's explain why conservatives insist the circumstances in Darfur ARE genocide; whereas, they refuse to even consider the circumstances in Iraq as genocide, given the facts at hand?

Why?

[Mass]

1. May I suggest that you learn about Darfur? Because you do not seem to know a lot.

I am sure that other people will post some links, but there is no excuse being ignorant.

AS for Iraqi people, their suffering comes from pure profit. We are not there because we do not like Muslims (that is only the pretext). We are here because we need the oil.

[tabasco]

2. We're not in Iraq because we need the oil.

We're in Iraq to control the oil and drive up the price.

The last thing the Bush cabal cares about is what we need.

[Mass]

4. This is what I meant.

[Marrah_G]

3. Because one group is trying to exterminate the other

not all war is Genocide. Genocide is the intentional eradication of another group. Hilter didn't want to subdue the Jews or take over their land or instill a pupet Jewish government. He wanted every last Jew on the planet DEAD. That is why Iraq is not Genocide. Iraq is very bad and innocent people are dying, but it is not a Genocide by definition. It is an unlawful war.

[provis99]

7. well, that isn't happening in Darfur, either

Too many people just casually toss around the genocide label whenever their pet Third World cause is involved. The fighting in Sudan has been going on for over 30 years; seems a long time for a "genocide". Darfur is just a few hop-headed Janjaweed thugs occasionally preying on Dinka villages for resources, nothing more than that.

I've also read people call Tibet a "genocide", Northern Ireland a "genocide", inner city America a "genocide", whites in Zimbabwe a "genocide" et al ad nauseam. The label has essentially lost any power it had because of those who abuse the label.

[Mass]

5. Read Amnesty International report.

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/sdn-background-eng

[Skittles]

6. on the basis they are GOP WHORES

yup