NAFTA - A half-assed idea

[Taverner]

Back when NAFTA was being pushed aggressively by Gore and Clinton, I was on board. The idea was to have a union of nations, not unlike the EU, that would create a "freer trade zone" by which taxes for goods would be lessened or eliminated, and let the market dictate prices.

Of course, unlike the EU, we did not enact the environmental protections and worker protections that they did. That is why NAFTA failed, and the EU works.

When I get 'scrap NAFTA' I actually argue the opposite - strengthen NAFTA with those protections, so that Mexico, Canada and the US all have very high standards for our products, and the workers are protected by a universal collective bargaining clause.

[fenriswolf]

1. here is an idea

make sure that people people who make the goods make at least minimum wage of the country that the items are being shipped too. we'll see how long factories last overseas.

[Taverner]

2. HAHAHAHAHA I love it!!!

Or a world minimum wage...

[madokie]

3. yes yes yes

[Elwood P Dowd]

4. Scrap the current NAFTA

because much of it was written by the very corporations and investors who stood to benefit the most. The side agreements that were added are useless.

[Taverner]

5. There's some good stuff there

And what struck me when I read it (yes, I actually read NAFTA) is the idea of a North America without borders. I am for this 100%.

[Elwood P Dowd]

6. The Bush Crime Family and their corporate partners would love that.

:crazy:

[Taverner]

7. Hey, with a NAFTA Min wage of $10 per hour, NAFTA-based single payer HC

And mandatory teaching of English, French and Spanish in all schools from AK to the Yucatan...we could be the Benevolent Empire we always wanted to be!

[Elwood P Dowd]

9. You live in a dream world.

The corporate lobby owns over 60% of the Washington politicians, and that's not going to change anytime soon. They will write the rules and regulations to enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else, just like they did with NAFTA, GATT, WTO, CAFTA, and all the other fake free trade deals. A North American Union would be a total disaster.

[Taverner]

11. Hey I'm not saying it's going to happen

That's just what I would want to see NAFTA become...

[Cleita]

12. Our emperors do not want a benevolent empire. They

want to be able to exploit other countries for their resources without having to do unprofitable things like paying minimum wage and offering health care. Why do you think they hate Hugo Chavez so much? He refuses to bend over and be a good puppet president for the USA business interests there.

[fenriswolf]

10. it seems like a good idea

but it would make us economic equals, american income per capita would go way down, while we still have political/ social issues. globilization is not a bad thing if we get rid of borders but so called "free trade" makes the working person who is in the richer economy have to work harder for less pay.

so as an american i oppose free trade because it exports our jobs to other countries and ships the goods back to us. This increases human rights abuses (as per china slave shops) increases global warming as alot of these countries do not have the minimum pollution policies that america has plus the pollution caused in transporting these good back to us. and of course affects americas economy as we no longer "produce" anything and we have lost jobs which create income which can be spent for goods and services in america.

The only way free trade would work is if we created a NA currancy like the european union did with the euro and established a NA labor union and minimum wage.

[Taverner]

14. I'm all for the single currency and all you suggested

Like I said - NAFTA's half assed. We need to back to the tables.

[The2ndWheel]

13. Strictly in the economic sense

Which means there will be less diversity. There is too much left to chance if there were more of it. It's all about predictability. It's all about forcing more people to live in, and see, the world the same way. That's the only way we can continue to grow economically.

It's the general trend of human history over the last few thousand years, so it's not about to stop. Unless we run out of the cheap energy that would be required to keep such a complex, organized global effort under control. Although we will use whatever we have to in order to keep it together. If that means destroying our habitat, in the name of higher economic standards, we'll go that way.

So in the end it's either a habitat, or an always increasing standard of living for an increasing amount of people. We don't get to have both.

If we start having fewer people, that will mean a lower standard of living, and we've never had to face a problem like an aging population. We still haven't even gotten to the point yet, although getting closer.

[Vinca]

8. It's a shame Clinton and Gore had a hand in this because it's

one of the primary reasons our manufacturing jobs are kaput. There's nothing fair about any of these trade agreements and we're paying a very steep price.

[WA98296]

15. The DLC (Clinton, Gore, Edwards) SUPPORT NAFTA. I will NOT vote for a DLC member.

[Odin2005]

16. Great idea.

I hate the corporatist crap that is NAFTA currently. At the same time, I also dislike economic nationalism. IMO there should be a global fair trade treaty that protects the environment and the rights of workers in all countries that sign the treaty. countries that don't sign the treaty are punished with huge tariffs.

I am really disturbed by the pessimistic "the powers that be will never allow it" comments, it reminds me of the BS rhetoric I believed about the worthlessness of liberal democratic politics back when I was a Marxist.

[fenriswolf]

17. *ding

kucinich is on record starting from day 1 nafta has gotta go