"Just Ignore Them"

[distantearlywarning]

I've heard this statement or something like it many times on DU over the past few years in regard to the trolls, incessantly argumentative and rude regulars, and other disruptors at this site.

The most recent example was in this thread here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2109579
Other posters in this thread told the OP: "Just put these folks on ignore" (implying that the OP was childish), "Assholes exist...decline to respond", "Let it go", "Get off the internet and do something", and "Don't take it personally".

The idea here, I suppose, is that the biggest problem is the fact that the OP is upset about rude statements. From this perspective, yes, the OP putting all of those people on ignore or finding something else to do that doesn't make her so mad is certainly a good solution. She may become less upset after logging off or whatever.

But is that really the problem? And is this really the point of DU: a bunch of individuals whose primary goal in internet discourse must now be ignoring and avoiding internet bullies?

What about our community? Sure, it helps the OP to log off and do something else for a while, but what about the rest of us? Are we ALL supposed to log off every time some asshole troll disrupts threads with horrible comments? And if everyone but the trolls logs off, where does that leave DU as a whole? If we want to address this problem which affects all of us as a whole, we need to start addressing it on a social level, not an individual level.

Allowing these people to continually disrupt the board is hurting us, and by extension, our ability to work together on the causes we all care about. And remaining silent about this problem, or "just ignoring them" is the same thing as tacitly approving it. Furthermore, every poster that someone puts on ignore is out there starting flame wars with 500 other people, and it's still hurting all the rest of us, because we can't find any actual information or reasonable discourse in between the flaming threads with the flaming posts. And it's hurting us by making us angry and mistrustful towards our fellow DUers.

Individual ignore lists are not an adequate solution to this community problem. And it isn't just or pragmatic to make the victims assume the responsibility for other people's bad behavior - the victims being everybody here at some point or another.

We need to start placing responsibility and solutions on the shoulders of the posters who are causing the disruptions, whether they have 15 posts or 5000. If someone is constantly in the middle of or starting every flame war on this site, they need to be banned, even if they've been here 5 years. If someone is posting inflammatory non-progressive statements in an obvious bid to rile others up, they need to be banned. This kind of discourse is not free speech, and it's not debate. It's the internet equivalent of yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theatre.

And all of us need to pay more attention to our language usage in our posts, and to our own motivations for writing anything. Are we really trying to engage in reasoned debate so we can learn something about the world, or are we just posting to insult, wound or demonstrate our superiority to another poster? If it's the latter, why not think twice before responding?

Thanks for listening.

:rant:

[shraby]

1. I agree. The discourse on du has deteriorated

exponentially since the mods are taking longer to tombstone disruptors. I don't even continue reading when I find a poster opening with statements like "People in California deserve...whatever. Those types of statements are uncalled for, insensitive, and after a poster opens a few of their posts like that, it's time for them to be taken off du permanently.

[bryant69]

2. For one thing let's get rid of all those people who support Congressional Dems (like myself)

It's clear that there's nothing that riles people up like expressing support for Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid - getting rid of us will make this place a lot calmer and a lot better.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[distantearlywarning]

3. I assume you are being sarcastic.

But let me clarify:

I DO NOT mean, let's get rid of everyone who disagrees with us.

There's a difference between friendly debate between two people who disagree and trolling, flaming behavior. Most of it lies in the language usage, and most of us can tell the difference.

Example:

"I think Nancy Pelosi is doing an ok job."

vs.

"Anyone who doesn't think Nancy Pelosi is doing an ok job is a total moron and a Nazi besides"

See the difference? The first person is expressing an opinion, the second person is deliberately being an ass and causing trouble.

[ret5hd]

4. Poor persecuted DLCers, i see.

[distantearlywarning]

5. This is ironic and sad.

Someone starting a flame war in my thread about flame wars.

[bryant69]

6. Yep. Except the bit about being a DLCer. n/t

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

7. How does that auto-qualify as being a rude, disruptive butthead?

:shrug:

I believe the OP refers to obnoxious behavior, not position or opinion.

[distantearlywarning]

8. Exactly, see post #3.

[MedleyMisty]

9. I put trolls on ignore because they want attention

They definitely don't want reasoned debate.

Okay, like with the fires thing - I posted in the first thread to try to explain why class issues might come up in the discussion. But to be honest, I was thinking more of some of the people I used to work with at Arby's saying stuff like "The rich people will still be okay afterwards so I'm not going to cry my eyes out about them." I really wasn't thinking of people saying "Each and every single person who loses their home is a pig who deserves it and I hope they suffer a lot." or whatever the trolls have been saying.

It's a cycle I've noticed time and time again - a few trolls will say something obviously ridiculous that's designed to get people upset and good intentioned people will get outraged by it and start new threads about it and brush all of DU with it. That gets other people upset, and so the flames continue on and on. For instance, with the fires thing - I have to admit that the general reaction to the trolls looks pretty classist and is likely to make sincere non-troll people assume that poor people aren't too popular around here. And that's going to make them upset and they're going to start new threads about it and brush all of DU with it, and so it goes on.

But if no one fed the trolls in the first place and their ridiculous statements passed unnoticed, the cycle wouldn't start and they would probably eventually go away.

On the other hand - one reason why they're so successful at stirring up flames about certain issues is because there is real conflict about those issues here. If you don't want to put them on ignore or let what they say go by unchallenged, you could try waiting until the first emotional reaction passes and then write as calm and reasoned and non-generalizing a post as you're able to. We desperately need to talk about class issues here. But we're not going to get anywhere while we're stuck in the troll/outrage/pile on/flame/witch-hunt cycle.

I've learned from DU that we're just as liable to think of people as groups and put them in boxes and decide that one group is better than another and to attack a common enemy to strengthen our group identification as people on the right. It's something that we need to watch out for.