Wow, just wow. They *MADE* Stark apologize. I am really not liking the leadership of the party now

[berni_mccoy]

As someone posted here on this topic, Stark's staff is saying he was forced to apologize or be censured. When the part leadership won't even allow Bush/Cheney/et al to be censured, let alone Impeached I have to ask WTF?!?!.

I *almost* bought the argument that Pelosi took Impeachment off the table for the greater good (i.e. take away the threat of Impeachment so the Democratic Agenda can be moved through Congress). I believed that for about 5 minutes, about as long as it took Bush to threaten a veto on anything passed by Congress, most particularly, the Stem Cell Research Bill. That didn't work out so well, did it?

When's the last time a Republican rep has been censured for saying outrageous shit?!? Oh, yeah, never, and they NEVER fucking apologize. Why is Craig still allowed to be a Senator? Why is Vitter? These jack-asses should be thrown out on the street for breaking the law.

I know we don't have enough Democratic representatives to override veto and the traitor GOP reps continue to work as a single unified block against anything good that can be done.

So STOP COOPERATING. How hard can this be?!?! If the Repubs are blocking everything you can bring to the table, you don't allow ANYTHING ON THE TABLE, including war funding. This is a unique opportunity that is being bungled by the Congressional leadership. I have to say, I'm completely confounded and disappointed in my party.

[Dr.Phool]

1. Leadership?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[berni_mccoy]

2. I'd be laughing it wasn't so sad.

[k8conant]

3. Ain't gonna study war no more---

berni_mccoy says it right: "you don't allow ANYTHING ON THE TABLE, including war funding. This is a unique opportunity that is being bungled by the Congressional leadership."

So simple, yet the Dems in Congress make it seem so hard. If you refuse to pass any war monies, there's nothing for * to veto.

[Dr.Phool]

12. I've been saying that from day 1.

No bill on the floor, nothing to vote on. Nothing to veto.

[AllyCat]

98. But, but, but, then they'd be accused of not supporting the troops

and then they'd have to, um, defend or deflect that argument, and then they'd have to say something kinda sorta bad about the Republicans that THEY don't support the troops, and then they'd all be censured, and, and.... gosh that would just be terrible, wouldn't it?

Spineless jellyfish, nearly the lot of them.

[villager]

4. Does Pelosi admire the kapos all that much?

Evidently so....

[cali]

8. yes.

Congress is just like a Nazi death camp.

:crazy:

[villager]

15. it's the long slippery slope of where you begin to cave in and "compromise"

that worries me.

There weren't any death camps in 1933.

There were 10 years later.

Is there an emoticon for that?

[cali]

19. I hate to introduce logic

but if you're going to go with that comparison, you also have to go with the facts. Hitler was elected in 1933. 7 years later it was 1940 and by then thousands had been murdered, and hundreds of thousands imprisoned. bush was installed in 1001. 7 years later, civil liberties have been eroded, and a disasterous war has been started, but bushco has not imprisioned and killed hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens. That's a significant difference.

[endarkenment]

22. hundreds of thousands of U.S. citizens

nice try. Actually Nazi Germany had not killed hundreds of thousands of German citizens prior to '42 either. The certainly had at least 100,000 citizens imprisoned, then again we have millions of ours imprisoned.

Bush has of course caused the deaths of somewhere around 1,000,000 Iraqis, an unknown number of non-fatal casualties, and millions of refugees, but those people don't count for very much as they are not citizens.

Exactly how many people are in our secret gulag? How many of them have been tortured? How many killed?

No, I don't know the answer to those questions, nor do you.

Here is another question: how many deaths does it take? What is the threshold of mass murder that has to be met to qualify for a valid comparison with the excesses of the 30's and 40's?

[cali]

24. I said:

"7 years later it was 1940 and by then thousands had been murdered, and hundreds of thousands imprisoned."

Thousands killed, not hundreds of thousands. Hundreds of thousands imprisoned, and not with any kind of due process.
Nice try, though.

CONCENTRATION CAMPS, 1933-1939
RELATED ARTICLES RELATED LINKS

The term concentration camp refers to a camp in which people are detained or confined, usually under harsh conditions and without regard to legal norms of arrest and imprisonment that are acceptable in a constitutional democracy. In Nazi Germany between 1933 and 1945, concentration camps (Konzentrationslager; KL or KZ) were an integral feature of the regime.

The first concentration camps in Germany were established soon after Hitler's appointment as chancellor in January 1933. In the weeks after the Nazis came to power, The SA (Sturmabteilungen; commonly known as Storm Troopers), the SS (Schutzstaffel; Protection Squadrons -- the elite guard of the Nazi party), the police, and local civilian authorities organized numerous detention camps to incarcerate real and perceived political opponents of Nazi policy.

<snip>

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005263

Get back to me when the U.S. passes the equivalent of the Nuremberg Laws, passed in 1935.

[druidity33]

37. over 800,000

arrests this year for Marijuana possession that resulted in jail time. That's more than all violent crimes put together.

What percentage of Pretzelnits opponents do you suppose are pot-smokers? or better yet, what percentage of pot-smokers oppose GwB's policies?

Do you know what a 6 month stint in a Minimum Security Detention Facility is like for a peace-loving pot-smoker?

No this isn't Nazi Germany, this is America 2007... and there is way too much needless death and pain. How many deaths are related to the Corporatocracy worldwide? How many millions have died due to the failed policies of the IMF, World Bank, WTO, or Pharmaceutical Companies, Chemical Manufacturers, etc, etc. Strictly speaking, the root of all evil is Money/Greed/Power...

and it appears to be getting worse. At what point will we have lost our Democracy? We are heading in the wrong direction for sure. How far gone are we? Why is it the biggest questions are the hardest to answer?

:(

[chimpymustgo]

45. Cali, nice effing hi-jack of a VERY important discussion.

Could you take that to a forum in the dungeon, perhaps? We're trying to discuss the loss of democracy in the United States of America. Dammit.

[davekriss]

60. "how many deaths does it take?" Precisely

Fascism is not defined by the number of its victims, but by the way it kills them.
-- Sartre

[villager]

23. well, don't worry, you haven't introduced logic, just an observation...

...that we, apparently, shouldn't worry, since things aren't as bad here yet. Or as quickly.

I'm more worried about the eventual costs of continual capitulation...

[girl gone mad]

32. I guess we'll just wait..

until Bush has killed thousands of American citizens and then we'll start to worry.

[cali]

33. Oh, please.

bush will be gone in a little over a year, and god knows he's damaged the world profoundly, but he's not going to intern and kill thousands of U.S. citizens between now and then.

[girl gone mad]

52. Then by all means,

let's just sit back and do nothing until he leaves office.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

92. Now you are listening to the voice of reason.

All hail a position of "reasoned" capitulation because he will be gone soon. :silly:

Jeebus, what a f'n stupid argument cali.

[The Wizard]

113. He could declare himself

President for life like his role model, Idi Amin. If we've learned anything about the Bush cartel by now, it's that just when you think they have reached their tyrannical limit, they go another step beyond. And the punks in the Democratic leadership act as if it's OK with them if Bush pisses in our collective faces.

[ClintonTyree]

67. Don't "misunderestimate" him.....

he's capable of far worse.

[Danger Mouse]

80. please. don't be naive.

what'll happen if we go to war with iran? will the dems try and stop it? will it all be wine and roses?

[frylock]

101. bush will be gone in a little over a year

don't count on it.

[MADem]

124. Well, you're making sense there.

That's not gonna go over well.

[lakeguy]

53. right...

never mind those 1,000,000 brown skinned iraqis. they dont count.

[Chulanowa]

100. It's not the brown skin, it's the Islam

Muslims never count, if you haven't noticed

[davekriss]

59. Um, in case you haven't noticed...

...the United States of America has the highest incarceration rate in the world. We imprison more of our citizens than China, North Korea, Syria, Iran, more than the worst totalitarian states out there. And, hey, just for grins, we've been exporting torture for decades that today we practice without proxy. Even you can earn your PhD in waterboarding at SOA, Ft. Benning, Georgia.

[Duncan Grant]

128. 30 to 60 percent of the incarcerated in the USA are brown-skinned

black males. But this is a very old story which sort of took off with the prison industry boom in the 80s.

[Unca Jim]

110. Ummm...

Hitler wasn't elected by a popular vote of the German people.

Hitler was given a seat in the Reichstag by the Nazi party, who got to appoint a percentage of representatives based on the percentage of the popular vote they received. He was appointed Chancellor in a backroom deal. He then seized absolute power illegally.

I never understand why people think he was elected.

Read a book!

[valerief]

133. I thought Gov. Bush killed half a million Iraqis so far. nt

[bvar22]

28. You can roll your eyes,

but the US Congress has the power to stop the carnage.
There are Iraqi children who will die tonight while the US Congress timidly sits on its hands.

You cannot avoid that FACT!

[leftchick]

35. she is feeding at the same corporate trough as them

why the fuck should she care about us or the rule of law or the fucking constitution??? There is a LOT of money to be made!

[_testify_]

5. Excellent post.

You just summed up how I'm feeling.

I don't understand it either. Public opinion is on our side - what are our reps really scared of? Being called names by the GOP? Or by their fellow Democrats?

Maybe we're keeping our powder dry for the Robot Overlord Invasion of 2095.

[symbolman]

30. LOL!

Robot Overlord invasion!

That just Slayed me, that kind of humor seems so rare here these days on the DU...

Thanks for the laugh :)

[Gonzo Gardener]

108. No, not for the Robot Overlord Invasion....

they must keep the powder dry because if you add water it's Kool-Aid


:hide:

[bullimiami]

6. truly pitiful. democratic 'leaders' apparently work for bush, not us.

[Wiley50]

10. in a word: COMPLICIT!

[Dr.Phool]

14. We have a WINNER!!!!!

Complicit, and neck deep. When they were a minority, they could whine and make a show.

Now we know their true colors.

[rjones2818]

63. I tend toward the other 'C' word:

Colaboration.

:banghead:

[formercia]

121. Enabler is another good description.

That's why Karl was laughing as he left.

The cat was already in the bag.

The fix was in.


I won't go down without a fight, though.

[kath]

137. "appeasers" works pretty well too.

Gotta love our one-party rule.

Government of the corporation, by the corporation and for the corporation RAWKS!!

[formercia]

140. Quisling is good too.

Bowing to their NAZI masters.

[earth mom]

18. Yup, complicit. I've been saying that for awhile now-since Pelosi took Impeachment off the table.

:grr:

[Individualist]

26. Absolutely complicit!

[juno jones]

46. Indeed. They all drink from the same

dirty shark-infested water of corporate funding.

[BobRossi]

7. Only one way to show them.

Not a one of them get's my vote next year. Not one.

[Voltaire99]

115. I'm done, too.

Nader was right.

[tridim]

125. Nader said Gore and Bush were the same.

Do you agree with that statement?

He's a freaking idiot.

[Taverner]

9. My worst cynical fears were validated by that

The Congressional "Dems" and the GOP are working hand in hand. This means war with Iran, continued war in Iraq, and the return of the draft.

It all makes too much fucking sense now. The reason Bushie is all convinced he will be seen as the "leader who prevented WWIII." Because we are going to war with Iran, and Congress will write him the check, no questions asked. They will make up the history books as they go along, and in the biggest oil grab since WWII we will continue an endless war until we are bankrupt. And many more die.

And Pelosi, Reid and co aren't just letting this happen - they are making this happen.

Why are the co-operating? Because there is something in it for them. Not sure what, but all of congress save a few are in Bushie's pocket.

[earth mom]

20. I think * WILL Make World War 3 Happen on Purpose-MWW3HOP.

:puke:

[bullimiami]

27. you know bush is going for MAHOP. Make Armageddon Happen On Purpose.

[earth mom]

29. MAHOP. Yes, that goes well with MIHOP & LIHOP-in *s mind of course. nt

[natrat]

39. one of the first things they did when they took over congress was to make congressmens

personal finances much less susceptible to scrutiny-go figure

[cascadiance]

11. They are confusing aquisition of voters from the other party with acquiescence TO that party!

These Dem "leaders" need either a brain or a heart!

[MadHound]

13. Yet, even though the left is now repudiated and will not be listened

It will be the left who is scapegoated when the Dems fail to win next year. The only reason that the party wants the left is for our money and our votes. But it is unwilling to do the work in order to own those. Instead, it thinks that we can be browbeaten and ignored, yet still vote for their party. Fuck that, I know when I'm not wanted.

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. Pete Stark speaks for me...

...or not.

[brentspeak]

17. Uh, do you have proof that Stark was "forced to apologize"?

You wrote, "As someone posted here on this topic, Stark's staff is saying he was forced to apologize or be censured."

I, like most people, don't accept hearsay -- especially internet hearsay -- as fact. Kindly document your proof that Stark was, indeed, "forced to apologize" by the Democratic leadership.

Thanks.

[berni_mccoy]

25. No politician apologizes voluntarily... and why did the dems even let his censure come to a vote?

They should have blocked it from the floor entirely.

The post I was referring to points ultimately to FDL here: http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/23/dear-speaker-pelosi/#comments

[madfloridian]

31. I think it was that or censure. Here are two sources, there are others.

That is the pattern. Take your pick. Do it or we will censure you.

http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2007/10/republican-hypocrites-fail-in-their.html


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aR7EKUN.uU74&refer=home

[dflprincess]

41. Olbermann just used the term "forced"

and pointed out that he had Pelosi on his butt (paraphrasing) as well as the repukes.

Keith also reminded his viewers that nothing happened to Boehner when he said that the 3700 lives lost in Iraq was "a small price to pay". I wonder where Pelosi was then.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

74. What about Bush's remark about how the number of casualties...

...will someday be just a "comma" in history books?

....I would love to know what Bush is holding over our democratic leaders. Remember how Carter criticized Bush and then later said he “misspoke”. ...Why did Carter all of a sudden seem timid?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

94. Thanks brent. I thought I was going crazy.

What with the "internets" going off and all. Glad you interjected and sounded the horn of rational thought. Shew.

[grasswire]

95. I'd like to see that, too.

The hysteria level around here is akin to the junior high girls' restroom at the Valentine dance.

I honestly have never seen such crazed fussing on a message board.

[DemGa]

21. Apologize to the gang that outed a CIA agent?

Apologize to treasonous criminals?

Disappointed again, not surprised.

[tbyg52]

34. I called Pelosi, Emanuel, Hoyer

Got people at Pelosi's & Emanuels. Did not know anything or would not admit to it. Left a message at Hoyer's. Also a message of support at Stark's.

I am furious. I was practically sobbing on the phone.

The difference between the R's and D's is getting narrower all the time. It's the corporations, stupid! (Not calling *y'all* stupid-I'm trying to get that meme taken up.... ;) )

[libodem]

36. he'd be safe

if he'd ordered several thousand men, to be beaten within an inch of their lives, hooded, transported, placed in stress positions for hours, doused with water in freezing cold rooms, blasted with sound, kept from sleeping, left in solitary confinement until driven mad, had doors kicked in, homes destroyed, families displaced, given power drills to sadists for torture devices, let 3000 die in 9/11, let 3800 plus, all the contractors and soldiers in Afghanistan be killed, 30,000 wounded armless, legless soldiers be gypped on benefits, but nooooo he had the temerity to complain about it. Shame on him.

[davekriss]

71. Excellent post (nt)

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

38. He looked like he was kicked to the curb by his own friends. No wonder the Republicans RULE.

He stated nothing worth being humiliated in front of the Righteous RW machine. NOTHING. NOTHING!!!

I am more than disappointed. I am disgusted that the Democratic party is so easily willing to sacrifice the most passionate under pressure by a RW NOISE MACHINE.

Why can't they be focused enough to take a stand against an oppressive cabal to ignore reactive yelling about their most noble members?

Sheesh. Maybe, they HAVE allowed the right wing to train them in chasing their own goddamn tails. :cry:

Seriously, Stark deserved support.

[Gregorian]

40. SO CHENEY CAN SAY "GO FUCK YOURSELF".

Yelling is required.

I cannot believe this. FASCISTS! Cheney can tell one of our representatives to go fuck himself, and never even have to think twice about it.

But we can't even tell the truth.

Sad. Just sad.

[Octafish]

49. Quislings!

They are sore afraid, as in those NAZI times.

[Gregorian]

55. They probably should be afraid. I never really thought about this before.

It's the money Cheney and his type have. That money buys Blackwater troops. Maybe Congress are afraid that at any time and in any place, hitmen can come from any direction. I really think they're scared just like you said. It's not like they'd do it. It's the fear factor. Hard times.

[abq e streeter]

42. Sigh..

I become more embarrassed to be a Democrat every day.

[radhika]

43. Accept It: They Are Them.....

I have finally been cured of my pathetic need to rationalize the behavior of the Democratic Congress. Or create scenarios that PROVES to me they are OK, they're gonna be good to us some day. I get it - they are THEM. And THEY ain't changing into the good mommies and daddies we children earnestly hoped for.

Question: Are we ready - really ready - for what's coming?

[chimpymustgo]

57. Welcome to DU, radhika. They are all on the same team. And it ain't OURS.

Hope we can find some solace - and a game plan.

[Myrina]

44. KO said the censure motion failed, but that Stark was made to apologize

... by the Dems.

WTF kind of pussies have we sent to DC, anyway ??? :mad:

[radhika]

50. Impeachment of War Criminals Off, Censure of Truthspeakers, ON!

Bush couldn't have asked for a better, more able set of neo-cons than he inherited with the election of 2006. If I were Pete Stark, I'd take pride in receing a formal Censure from that crowd. Have it inscribed on my tombstone...which is probably being carved for him right now, come to think of it.

[Nimrod2005]

47. Ditto

[derby378]

48. Point fingers at the leadership, but Stark deserves at least some of the blame

The Democratic Party needs a Mr. Smith Goes To Washington moment. Rep. Stark can close to giving us that moment, but then he caved.

[mmonk]

51. It absolutely makes no sense.

The dems in the House impress no one. They have no leadership from where I sit. I do see some hard working dems trying to do the right things though. But yeah, this servitude to a couple of freshmen reps (who have not earned the right of control) and the republican party is on the outrageous side. I'm guessing it's the DLC. If dems do win in 08, they will claim it for themselves and this strategy though. That makes it suck that much harder.

[Bread and Circus]

54. I knew this about 2 secs after I apologized. The dem leaders asked him to fall on his sword

[proReality]

56. Stop calling them leaders--they aren't...

The Democrats have become followers and enablers.

[dapper]

58. I agree 100%

When I heard on the radio that he appologized... man...

He was 100% right on the money!


Our representatives need to get a spine and stand up for themselves. I can bet that we will fund the war but not the schip.

Dap

[The Gunslinger]

61. Just when you think the Democrats can't do worse.

They force one of their own to apologize with the threat of censure, after censuring Move On. I guess every Democratic members of the Right movement are just keeping the few rogue elements of the true Democratic party at bay, while the Right can spew their hate any way they like without any fear of punishment. I'm about to give up. There are millions of people carrying the Democratic Parties water, and they are all being let down. I hate to say it, but I have to consider most of the Democratic leadership complicit in the crimes of this administration. And I even have to lay some of the blame on Stark.......When you say something true, do not apologize. When you say you are not going to apologize......definitely do not apologize. It makes it even worse.

I know this is not the forum for third party discussion, but I think it is time for the real Democrats to separate themselves from the right wing Republicrats in the administration. I wouldn't even call it a third party, I'd call it a second party.

[f the letter]

62. This party is really sliding into jingoism

what is the matter with these people?

[creeksneakers2]

64. I don't believe Nancy Pelosi has dictatorial powers

and if she does she shouldn't. Nancy's critics here seem to believe that Nancy can just write a script for whatever is to happen in Congress and order all the members to follow it. I don't believe Nancy has that power. That sounds more like a parliament in a totalitarian state.

I haven't studied parliamentary procedure because it takes months to master. I do know that the Democrats ran in 2006 on a promise that a minority under them would have some rights. I do know that under the rules minorities can get things to the floor.

What amazes me about Democrat/Hillary critics tonight is the hypocrisy. On another thread they are angry because Hillary promised to review executive power grabs under Bush. The critics said that was a terribly inadequate promise because they said Hillary should absolutely promise to get rid of all expanded executive authority. Comparisons to fascism, etc were raised.

But on other threads tonight the Democrat/Hillary bashers want Nancy Pelosi to assume dictatorial powers over Congress. But Nancy is supposed to use that authority only to carry out the far left agenda.

So its the power of dictatorship for the Hillary/Democrat haters but no power at all for the rest. It doesn't work that way in real life.

[rjones2818]

65. It's time for Democrats to act like Democrats.

Madame Speaker and her cohorts aren't doing so.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x64632

Dennis is right.

Go Dennis!
http://dennis4president.com
http://www2.kucinich.us
Choose Peace!

[Chalco]

66. The Democrats act like a battered spouse.

The battered spouse is so worried about how the abuser is going to react to whatever they do, think or feel that they run in fear. The Dems keep saying stuff like--"Oh, we can't do ___ because they'll say___." Who cares what "they" say! I'm so sick of this.

[vssmith]

68. Is Cindy Sheehan still planning on running for Pelosi's seat?

If the answer is yes I think I will send her a check.

[Synnical]

69. *****Um, when did that happen???***

I must have missed it.

[peacekitten]

70. Exactly!!!

STOP COOPERATING!!!!! The apologizing between sobs is so degrading!

[Catherine Vincent]

72. I can't believe they made him apologize.

I can't figure it out.:shrug:

[iheartobama]

73. If they forced him to apologize....

....then he's a bigger wuss than we thought.

[Kingofalldems]

76. Who said he was a wuss?

I haven't seen any such thread.

[kurth]

75. Nancy Pelosi: FUCK YOU!

Is there any trace of evidence of Democratic LEADERSHIP in Congress?

[Imagevision]

77. Bush asked for 190 Billiojn last week, this week he add's another 46 billion, Pelosi

and the Dem's will cave and give into this ass-wipe with a "we'll just have to wait until we have a Dem president installed before we can do anything?? - I ain't buying that shit...!

[Arugula Latte]

78. I can't believe Nancy Pelosi turned out to be such a fucking turncoat.

I've really grown to despise that woman.

As a former San Franciscan, I can't even begin to express my disappointment in her.

[NBachers]

79. Finally Grew Some Balls!

Yeah - Way To Go, Democraps! You finally grew a set of balls and ganged up on one of our own! Good Show! Way to be firm and decisive. You're not putting up with anyone's crap, are you? Are your bipartisan repuke buddies giving you a little pat on the head now? Maybe now you'll get all the way up to George Bush in the polls. Wouldn't that be exciting?

[Danger Mouse]

81. To give the repukes credit...they never would've apologized.

As much as I'm infuriated with the Dem 'leadership' (HA!) right now, i'm pissed off at stark, too, for giving in.
Cowards, all of them.

[Anywho6]

82. Pelosi should be censured...

...for complete incompetence and misrepresenting herself as a DEMOCRATIC leader!!!!

[DefenseLawyer]

83. Sometimes I forget

that at the end of the day, politicians are the same jerkoffs that ran for student council in high school. Ass kissers, back slappers and halfwits. No real ideas or goals other than to pad a resume and be popular. Not only do they have no vision, but in many cases they are borderline stupid (a solid C average, never read a book that wasn't assigned), which makes them easy pickings for pollsters and consultants and lobbyists. It also helps to explain why the average politician is about 5 years behind the public on just about every issue and why they make utterly moronic decisions like this one.

[kath]

138. "politicians are the same jerkoffs that ran for student council in high school"

Post. Of. The. Day.


Not true of *all* of them, of course, but way mor true than it oughtta be. :-(

[pissnoffrethugs]

84. Wow

I tend to think the Dems don't like being in power anymore. Do they even realize what they are doing?

[datavg]

85. They...

...HAVE to go along to get along, because they need the southern and midwestern moderates.

This is reality. It also happens to be the future.

San Francisco Bay Area type liberalism won't sell to the masses. It never has and it never will.

And then, there's the question of President Hillary. She's no California liberal. Not even close.

[Danger Mouse]

86. sigh.

capitulation and cowardice are harmful to the country.

[DefenseLawyer]

88. Wrong

People in the midwest and the south don't see standing up to the President as the act of a far out "San Francisco liberal". This isn't 2002. They are thirsting for leadership. When was the last time you spent any time with "the masses"? I'm guessing not lately, if at all, because your assessment of the mood of the country is about 5 years behind reality.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

90. Please. Tell me how it really is and why I need to listen to you.

Give me your best case for your candidate and I will respond in kind.

[Beelzebud]

96. Paid shill for DLC, or just a closet Republican?

[charlie]

97. Of course, you could explain

how calling a malignant chowderhead a malignant chowderhead is "San Francisco Bay Area type liberalism", but I doubt it'd make any sense. Sounds like a catchall for anything that gives a DLCer the green shits.

[kenfrequed]

126. Oh sure...

And the antiwar message, that won't sell either because the majority of Americans are in favor of the war.

Oh yes and universal state run healthcare, people don't want that either.

Oh and the WTO and Nafta, everyone loves that too.


Oh waitaminute!!

The majority is AGAINST the War, against Nafta, and for universal healthcare.

Gods I hate it when DLC drones posit faux strategy arguments that arent even backed up by the facts.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

87. Where are my adversaries arguing that we haven't approached fascism yet?

[JCMach1]

89. My benefit of the doubt is now officially over for Pelosi

:grr:

She should have taken the Repug approach... completely ignore the screams from the opposition and ignore what happened.

After all, it will be Stark who has to face the consequences with his constituents. If he is too much an idiot, let them vote him out.


F$#% you NANCY!

[Beelzebud]

91. condemn moveon, threaten censure to one of their own... Fuck party leadership.

Another nail in the coffin of party leadership that truly doesn't get it.

Do you think Republicans (or anyone!) would threaten censure on someone for TELLING THE FUCKING TRUTH>...

[rAVES]

93. Lets see now... The pukes practically have an army (BW)

are the scum of the earth.

Killing 1 million "brownies" in Iraq is nothing to them.. a "comma in the history books"

Outing a CIA agent putting her and her family's lives in immediate danger. not an issue

Is sneaking nuclear arms around the US (god knows where else)

outs a child's home address to their rabid followers as well as smearing him and his sick sister.

is robbing the US blind every day of billions of dollars that don't even exist yet.

yanno.. this is the fucking Nazi party 2.0 you are dealing with here, the man was as well to apoligise.

This is the middle stages of the US moving into a one party system, right now the facade is crumbling before your eyes.

VOTE HILLARY!!! that will learn em. :sarcasm:

[yurbud]

99. LINK: Send Pelosi an email. (here's mine)

http://speaker.house.gov/contact/">Pelosi's Speaker of the House contact page


My note to her:

I am deeply disappointed that you took the time to threaten Peter Stark with censure for some ill-worded but essentially correct comment while you can't see a single thing that Bush has done worth impeaching or even censuring. He has committed actual crimes and you go along with making them retro-actively legal.

He lied us into a war that had nothing to do with our security and that is funneling hundreds of billions of tax dollars into the pockets of his cronies and costing the lives of thousands of our troops and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

He has violated the Geneva and Hague Convention not only by committing a war of aggression and torture, but by looting Iraq.

And the president and his surrogates routinely call their opponents traitors and terrorists. All this you have no problem with, but you have time to attack Peter Stark for being impolite to the worst, most dangerous, corrupt president in our history.

I can only conclude that you are a profound coward or more likely you are bought by the same people who own Bush.

You are moral filth and are subverting our democracy by ignoring the will of the people who put you in office.

[Hardrada]

106. I wrote her a short and sharp note!

[kath]

139. That's a great e-mail.

well done!! :applause: :applause:

[Flagrante]

102. The House (and Senate) leadership are nothing but deeply disappointing.

Pelosi no longer has my trust, faith or respect. This Stark thing is the straw that’s broken the camel’s back for her. I fear Hillary is cut from the same cloth, and once crowned very little will change. Pleeeease Mr. Gore, save us, we need you now more than ever.

[Luminous Animal]

103. It is posts like these

and the subsequent righteous anger that make me wonder why ya'll hate Nader so much. The Green Party, various socialist parties, Nader, et. al., have seen and warned about this complicity between our elected official no matter what party they belong to and their capitulation to corporate interests. It has been, truly, going on for years... well before GWB. Asset seizure without trial, the growth of the prison industrial complex, the demonization of youth and lock down of schools, the marginalization of poor folks, electronic surveillance in the public sphere... a creeping erosion of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

I post this not to castigate the DU community. Because I think you... we... are patriots. We are patriots.

Because we cannot look to our elected representatives for leadership in protecting our constitution, the weakest amongst us, our neighbors, or family, our friends, and political adversaries. This administration, this congress, is selling out our interests to any bidder (not just the highest) who comes knocking with more than our meager individual contribution.

As I screamed in total frustration to my sister the other day, WHEN? WHEN IS OUR GOVERNMENT GOING TO DO ANYTHING FOR US? WHEN IS THE LAST TIME OUR GOVERNMENT DID ANYTHING IN OUR INTEREST?

We must take that on that responsibility ourselves.


General Strike. General Strike. General Strike.

[DesEtoiles]

104. Fuck you Nancy.

[autorank]

105. There is no "Opposition Party" - just capitulaters. K*R

bernie, I've been busy all day and literally just heard about the apology from you. I'll take your word that this happened and comment:

We have no opposition party in the United States. This proves it beyond any doubt. This leader
does not serve Democrats, she serves herself and her inner circle of beneficiaries of
The Money Party.

Stark spoke from his mind and heart. It's difficult to see Bush in any other way than the terms used.

What is Nancy Pelosi's Major Malfunction?

[Diane R]

107. I'm heartsick about this...I'm losing hope in our country.

[cornermouse]

109. ditto.

[Ganja Ninja]

111. I expected this.

It's happened so frequently in the past that I don't expect anything less from Nancy Pelosi than full cooperation with the Bush regime and rest of the GOP. Investigations!? Accountability!? Don't make me laugh. It's not coming now and it's not coming in the future.

[ForeignSpectator]

112. You guys who say "republicans never apologize so why should Democrats?", think about this...

...what Stark said didn't even require an apology. It was merely the truth. So not only do Republicans make outrageous statements and never apologize but Stark was forced to apologize for telling the truth. He didn't tell anybody to fuck himself or wished anyone dead, he just told the truth.

And he apologized. THAT is how off the balance REALLY is.

I am soo disappointed last week that Pete Stark lifted my mood, just imagine what pressure he must have had...

That caving won't go away until people stop electing DINO's into Congress.

Oh and FUCK Pelosi. And I REALLY mean it. "For the children" my ass.

[RoccoR5955]

114. The DLC is responsible...

For the current state of affairs. If the DLC would stand up, and speak truth to power, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in.
They are an integral part of the class war that is going on today.

[tavalon]

116. Leadership?

What is this "leadership" of which you speak?

[amb123]

117. If this is "Leadership", then the USA is doomed.

:mad:

[april]

118. This is B.S ..oh so angry

[NOLALady]

119. Seems to me that the Democrats need some competition

for the Democratic vote.

[Imagevision]

120. Dems truly are wimps, -> go ask "go_fu*k_yourself Cheney - did he apologize, hell NO!!!

[formercia]

122. Pelosi to Stark:

Bend over and take it like a man. Believe me, once you're broken in, it even feels good.

[natrat]

123. and it's all over now baby blue

[Spiffarino]

127. Cindy: Please Run Against Pelosi!

Pelosi, Hoyer and the rest of our "leaders" have to go. Now more than ever.

[Vidar]

129. Excellent post. My opinion of Pelosi can't get much lower.

[JPZenger]

130. I Think Apology Was Proper

I agreed with some of the things Stark said. However, he went way too far, and an apology was proper. I believe King George is completely taking the country in the wrong direction, but I don't believe he takes pleasure in causing death.

[berni_mccoy]

134. Why were soldiers sent to Iraq then? For WMD? For Security? Bull-shit. It was for greed

And that greed is Bush's entertainment. Who has benefited? Bush corporations. Period. Billions, maybe TRILLIONS of dollars of benefit to oil companies and defense contracts.

The fact is Stark was speaking the truth.

[kath]

141. ha! He's taken pleasure in causing death ever since he was a young boy.

Used to LOVE to blow up frogs by sticking firecrackers in them -- this is absolutely true.

[OneBlueSky]

131. so the Dems don't have the votes to stop the war? . . . well, there's one thing the CAN do . . .

and that's shut down the fucking Congress . . . don't they feel that a thoroughly ILLEGAL war that has . . .

- killed thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis,
- seriously injured and maimed tens of thousands of Americans and
probably millions of Iraqis,
- created millions of Iraqi refugees,
- bombed the "cradle of civilization" back to the Stone Age,
- destroyed that nation's infrastructure, and
- contaminated large portions of the country with depleted uranium and
God knows what else

isn't sufficiently serious to warrant drastic measures? . . .

if so, they are either complete idiots, quivering cowards, or venal corporate stooges -- probably all three . . . no wonder George W. Bush, the worst president in history, is out-polling them by better than 2 to 1 . . .

fuck 'em all (with very few exceptions) . . .

[Froward69]

132. Hear Here!!!!!!!!!

[Ilsa]

135. There are quite a few invertebrates we have to select from

to which to change our party mascot.

On edit: or change the "bend over" Dems to.

[dave29]

136. Our Democrats Generally Betrayus

I apologize for harming America with my Subject message.

[BrklynLib at work]

142. Pointing out that the emperor is naked is now a crime...

[soulcore]

143. One Party Rule is here is to stay folks.

If anyone can argue against the fact that we are all good and truly f*cked, please do, otherwise I'm going to hug my family, stock up on food and ammo, and hope that Blivet DOES leave office (but my bet is he won't.)

[km1550]

144. Pelosi is a traitor

I pray she finds herself voted out office come next election.

[JimboDem]

145. Vichy Democrats

Not another dime.

x(

[JFN1]

146. I thought Pete was about to cry

When he made his apology - he seemed all choked up when he said he should "go back to being a nobody." Can't say that I blame him, either...