How many Nat'l Guard troops are in Iraq and missing from CA , where

[babylonsister]

they are really needed? I've been googling all day, but so far, I haven't heard a word.

[malaise]

1. Dan Abrams is discussing this now

For starters 209 vehicles are in Iraq.

Add.

[spinbaby]

2. Didn't he just mention 1 billion in equipment?

I wasn't paying much attention, but I'd swear he said they were short a billion dollars worth of equipment.

[babylonsister]

5. Thanks. I turned around when you said that! I'm so glad he covered it. nt

[bridgit]

3. some 1500 are down on the border, protecting america from 'the brown menace'...

:sarcasm: but as it turns out there's a fire there too x(

[babylonsister]

6. No, 'they've' been recalled. Now in the fire mix doing what they can. nt

[Xithras]

13. The California National Guard doesn't actually fight fires though.

Their role is a support role. They organize evacuations, provide security, run supplies, and occasionally ferry firefighters around. Aside from a handful of helicopters and pilots trained to do water dumping, their position is simply one of logistical support.

I've seen comments in past fires about how they would be "out" already if the National Guard units were around to help, and I think there is a misunderstanding about what they actually do. I know several guys who volounteer in the NG, one of whom is in Iraq right now, and another of whom was advised that he may be going to SoCal tomorrow. None of them would know the first thing about fighting a fire, and none would do so if asked.

But they'll happily shoot looters!

[bridgit]

16. correct...about the support role part...

[babylonsister]

21. They don't fight wars usually either. nt

[blondeatlast]

36. Cha-ching! And the support role is almost as important. nt

[Breeze54]

9. It's only 200, not 1500.

see post below.

[bridgit]

12. posted 4 hrs ago - Schwarzenegger ordered 800 National Guard troops off US-Mexican border to help...

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/wildfires/2007-10-23-wildfires_N.htm

[Quakerfriend]

4. I've been looking, as well.

It astounds me that there has been virtually NO talk about federal help being brought in.

Though I live in PA, in my family alone, we have one house burned. Two others very nearly burned. And, another who is five miles away from the nearest fire. These are all cousins who live in CA.
Prayers going out to all of you wonderful folks in CA!

[babylonsister]

7. There has been help, from FEMA.

:scared: And I know a lot of Guardsmen have been called from WA and NC, probably more places, but this show is the first I've heard anyone mention the absence of the Nat'l Guard that should be there and the ramifications. Supposedly, 50% of the equipment that might have been used is in Iraq.

[Igel]

20. Because it's not easy to explain.

The CA NG is mostly in California; something like a quarter is deployed to Iraq. More equipment's been deployed, but it's not equipment that they need all that much.

Then there are other states' NGs. The feds stay out of that, mostly. A governor contacts and makes arrangements with other governors. Blaming the feds for not arranging NG deployments from other states isn't appropriate, since it's not their job.

There are other kinds of logistical arrangments. Many of them are in-state. When arrangements with other states are needed, they're made directly. The feds may help transport or even identify resources, but they don't control the states. Federalizing the NG or the states' resources is a tricky and deeply political matter.

Then there are resources that the feds have--stuff in warehouses, vehicles, planes. Those have to be requested. The feds don't presume to have a better idea as to what's needed and what's available, most of the time, than the local and state folk. Often the primary resource that the feds have is money: They just tell the state to go ahead and spent $800 million on stuff, it'll be reimbursed.

Federal usurpation was difficult 3 years ago. It's easier now, but no more desirable.

[babylonsister]

22. .

[Breeze54]

27. Yes it is the DOD's job to deploy the National Guard, as they're

under the ARMY and the President's command now!!

They have been since the US invaded Iraq!

The DOD did send ANG with planes to drop water etc.

CA National guard have also been deployed to help with the fire victims.

Also the Navy, Air Force and Marines!!

=============================

Defense Department 'Leaning Forward' to Help Californians

http://www.emilitary.org/article.php?aid=12494

Jim Garamone - American Forces Press Service
2007-10-23

Defense Department officials have provided everything that California officials have asked for and are “leaning forward” to anticipate what they might need next, the department’s assistant secretary for homeland defense and American security affairs said here today.

California officials have ordered more than 500,000 people from their homes as the fast-burning wildfires continue their course of destruction.

President Bush has declared seven counties to be disaster areas, as more than 270,000 acres have burned. “All of us across this nation are concerned for the families who have lost their homes, and the many families who have been evacuated from their homes,” Bush said during a speech at the National Defense University here today. “We send our prayers and thoughts with those who've been affected, and we send the help of the federal government, as well.”

McHale said California officials have been pleased by the quickness of the federal response. He said all government agencies have a “sense of urgency and a recognition that lives are at stake” and are working together harmoniously.

The Defense Department has been providing support to state and local departments as the fire has progressed. “In this case, California needs help and DoD is prepared to provide assistance,” McHale said.

Defense personnel have been tracking the danger the fires present for several days. As the Santa Ana winds began blowing local fires into tempests, Defense officials began speaking regularly with California officials and with officials at the National Interagency Fire Center in Boise, Idaho, McHale said.

Defense support falls into two areas: fighting the fire and humanitarian relief.
About 100 Defense civilians and active duty military personnel are engaged in firefighting.

“We have 12 teams and equipment actively engaged,” McHale said. “There are 550 Marines who
are preparing for possible deployment … to be engaged in firefighting activities.”

There has been no determination to put the Marines into the fight yet, and officials are using
this time to train the Marines in firefighting techniques.

More than 17,000 California National Guardsmen also can aid in firefighting, McHale said.

In addition, six C-130 Hercules aircraft have modular air firefighting systems installed and will begin flying missions tomorrow morning, said Army Lt. Gen. H Steven Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau. Four of the aircraft are from the Montana and North Carolina Air National Guard and two are Air Force Reserve aircraft out of Peterson Air Force Base, Colo. All will drop fire retardant or water on the blazes.

National Guard, Navy and Marine Corps helicopters also are dropping water on the fire in an effort to contain the blazes.

Commanders of bases in the area have worked with local communities to provide cots, bedding, command and control and medical support to evacuation centers in the area. California National Guardsmen are working to ease the lives of about 10,000 Californians who are taking shelter in San Diego’s QualComm Stadium.

More------->

[The Stranger]

30. Where in the fuck is the federal government?

And why doesn't this thread have more recommendations?

[Breeze54]

31. I heard that FEMA is already cutting checks to victims.

and the DOD has sent lots of aid.

-----------

Defense Department 'Leaning Forward' to Help Californians
http://www.emilitary.org/article.php?aid=12494

Jim Garamone - American Forces Press Service
2007-10-23

[The Stranger]

33. Thanks, good to see that.

From what they are saying, the need is for people on the ground to relieve the firefighters that have been doing 36 hour shifts. I don't know if 50 military personnel and the promise of Marines soon-to-be trained is really going to cut it, though.

[Breeze54]

35. The Marines were not promised, as there are 2 fires at Pendleton too!

The Marines aren't trained to fight fires nor are the National Guard.

[The Stranger]

37. Fire breaks, right? Isn't the strategy not to put out what is burning, but cut off the fuel?

Clear areas to prevent the fire from spreading.

[Breeze54]

25. There's been tons of talk about FEMA, Federal Help & DOD

help in CA! It's been all over the news!!

[Breeze54]

8. 1,500 Guard Called in to Fight California Fires

Guard Called in to Fight California Fires

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,154618,00.html

Army News Service | October 23, 2007

WASHINGTON --

The California National Guard has been directed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to make 1,500
Guard members available to support efforts to fight at least 14 wildfires that are ravaging
the drought-stricken southern part of the state.

The Guard members included 200 troops who are patrolling the California-Mexico border as part
of Operation Jump Start, the mission to keep illegal aliens from entering the United States.

More than 200 Guard members were sent to help with San Diego civilian evacuations, California
Guard officials reported.

One hundred Guard troops were sent to Qualcomm Stadium, home of the San Diego Chargers,
and another hundred were dispatched to the Del Mar Fairgrounds.

The California governor on Sunday requested that four California Guard helicopters support
the firefighting mission.

Most of the troops remained on standby Monday night. They would be deployed at the direction of
the governor's Office of Emergency Services (OES) to areas where they could most help the efforts
to save lives from the dangerous wildfires blown by fierce desert winds and to prevent looting.

At least 300,000 people along the 150 miles between San Diego and Malibu, west of Los Angeles,
were warned to leave their homes by Tuesday morning; at least one person was killed and dozens
more were injured by the fires that covered nearly 246,000 acres, equal to 384 square miles,
the Associated Press reported. Among the evacuees were members of a National Guard unit that
had to flee its barracks, officials said.


More....

[babylonsister]

10. That's great; I just wonder how many would usually be in CA if not for Iraq? nt

[Breeze54]

17. 820 CA. NG soldiers are in Iraq right now, since Sept. ;

from what I could find. See post below.

[madfloridian]

11. Boxer said 50% of equipment in Iraq.

"Q Dana, back on the wildfires for a moment. Senator Barbara Boxer, this morning in a hearing, suggested that they're limited in the amount of National Guard equipment available to them in California because of commitments in Iraq. Specifically she said, "Right now we are down 50 percent in terms of our National Guard equipment because they're all in Iraq. The equipment -- half of the equipment, so we really will need help." Do you have a response to that?

MS. PERINO: I haven't heard that specifically. I know that that has been a concern. I think in another natural disaster that I'm -- I'm sorry?

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20071023006611&newsLang=en

[melody]

14. We have firefighters on TV right now begging for equipment and assistance

And Arnie already sent in 1500 NGmen.

When you consider that San Diego is heavily hit and it's a Marine town ...

[babylonsister]

18. Good point; the base sounds empty, and that's a big one. nt

[Breeze54]

15. 820 NG CA. soldiers deployed to Iraq in Sept. - the largest California Guard unit to deploy

California National Guard unit prepares for combat

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20070822/ai_n19475594

Oakland Tribune, Aug 22, 2007

Editors Note:

In support of President Bushs order for more front- line troops in Iraq, National Guard leaders
turned to the Walnut Creek-based 1st Battalion of the 143rd Field Artillery Brigade.

Expanded and turned into an infantry task force of about 820 soldiers from more than 300 cities
around the state, the unit is the largest California Guard unit to deploy since the Korean War.

Staff writer Dogen Hannah and photographer Karl Mondon have been following dozens of soldiers and
their families as the force prepares for war. The soldiers expect to deploy overseas before mid- September.

FORT DIX, N.J. --

The pickup speeds out of the darkness toward a floodlit Army base checkpoint, ignoring guards orders to stop.

more........

[Didereaux]

19. Okay this seems to be about all you are really going to find...

From a couple of sources, NAtional Guard websites, their is a gov pdf that says that there are approx 330,000 Nat'l Guard. Whether that is authorized and funded for or are active is not said. It seeks such info is now classified?

At any rate it is not the lack of manpower still available for home use, it is the lack of EQUIPMENT. Last spring there was a report to Congress GAO if I remember right that showed the NAtional Guard was woefully under equipped because non-combat units were having to ship their equpment to Iraq with the combat units, who when they returned left the equipment with the Army, thius circumventing military budgeting constraints and such. Long story short is that the NG at home haven't even bicycles to get somewhere they are needed.

Sen. Ben Nelson stated that the Nebraska BG(a small group) was short 7500 pieces of equip this past year year. That means trucks etc, anything that can be used in combat or in support.

A last note along this line is that if you search back to Katrina you will find the Mississippi Commander of the NG complained that they had huge stockpiles of supplies in Jacksonville and no trucks or other means to move them.

One more nail in the Cheney coffin.

[babylonsister]

23. a.m. kick. nt

[Breeze54]

24. Hey babylonsister; I don't have a link but

in the wee hours of the morning I heard on the news that HALF of CA's National Guard are deployed in Iraq!!

HALF!!!!!

Made me sit up in my chair!!

[babylonsister]

26. Wow. I'm not surprised, but I want numbers, an article, some interest,

something! I KNEW CA was not being helped by their absence. Sure, once the fire(s) got going, there's not much anyone could do, but before that? No one can tell me their presence wouldn't have helped. :-(

[Breeze54]

28. The NG really aren't trained to fight fires.

They do the logistics of support.

Move people, supplies, etc. Clean up brush, help the wounded.

[babylonsister]

29. That's okay. Their help would have been appreciated. I guess what

I mean is, they should be home doing what they were hired to do instead of the endless tours in Iraq, doing something over and above their original job description.

[Breeze54]

32. Well,

war is part of their job description. It's rare but
they did serve in WWII and in Vietnam. and other conflicts.

They ARE helping in CA!!!

---------

Defense Department 'Leaning Forward' to Help Californians

http://www.emilitary.org/article.php?aid=12494

Jim Garamone - American Forces Press Service
2007-10-23

Defense Department officials have provided everything that California officials have asked for and are “leaning forward” to anticipate what they might need next, the department’s assistant secretary for homeland defense and American security affairs said here today.

California officials have ordered more than 500,000 people from their homes as the fast-burning wildfires continue their course of destruction.

President Bush has declared seven counties to be disaster areas, as more than 270,000 acres have burned. “All of us across this nation are concerned for the families who have lost their homes, and the many families who have been evacuated from their homes,” Bush said during a speech at the National Defense University here today. “We send our prayers and thoughts with those who've been affected, and we send the help of the federal government, as well.”

McHale said California officials have been pleased by the quickness of the federal response. He said all government agencies have a “sense of urgency and a recognition that lives are at stake” and are working together harmoniously.

The Defense Department has been providing support to state and local departments as the fire has progressed. “In this case, California needs help and DoD is prepared to provide assistance,” McHale said.

Defense personnel have been tracking the danger the fires present for several days. As the Santa Ana winds began blowing local fires into tempests, Defense officials began speaking regularly with California officials and with officials at the National Interagency Fire Center in Boise, Idaho, McHale said.

Defense support falls into two areas: fighting the fire and humanitarian relief. About 100 Defense civilians and active duty military personnel are engaged in firefighting.

“We have 12 teams and equipment actively engaged,” McHale said. “There are 550 Marines who are preparing for possible deployment … to be engaged in firefighting activities.”

There has been no determination to put the Marines into the fight yet, and officials are using this time to train the Marines in firefighting techniques.

More than 17,000 California National Guardsmen also can aid in firefighting, McHale said.

In addition, six C-130 Hercules aircraft have modular air firefighting systems installed and will begin flying missions tomorrow morning, said Army Lt. Gen. H Steven Blum, chief of the National Guard Bureau. Four of the aircraft are from the Montana and North Carolina Air National Guard and two are Air Force Reserve aircraft out of Peterson Air Force Base, Colo. All will drop fire retardant or water on the blazes.

National Guard, Navy and Marine Corps helicopters also are dropping water on the fire in an effort to contain the blazes.

more....

[babylonsister]

34. You bet your buns they are there in force, after the Katrina failure, and

I am so not denegrating the NG. All I am saying is that this damn illegal occupation has taken resources away from where they should be. And, I trust, where they'd prefer to be.