Keep in mind that Bill Clinton helped to resurrect a legacy for George HW Bush

[Horse with no Name]

by endorsing him in his efforts in the Tsunami, etc.
It makes me wonder if the back room deal was struck that if Hillary gets the nod, if she will help out Junior's legacy?
I'm sorry. These two families are almost incestuous.
Gives me the creeps and I absolutely adored Bill Clinton at one time.:(

[Captain Hilts]

1. I LOVE a good conspiracy theory. If the Clintons are that smart/organized, they should be in the WH

[aquart]

5. Just another rephrasing of the Bush Clinton Bush Clinton meme.

I admire the artfulness of putting a new look on that tired smear. Bringing the tsunami into it!

We should start a point grading system for this stuff.

[Horse with no Name]

9. as we should for those who do everything to enable

the corporatist rot to take over our party.
Sorry, you are still at a C-.
Try harder.

[JackRiddler]

23. It's not a "meme"

It's a pattern.

[sendero]

69. You mean that corrrupt?

[aquart]

2. Beyond belief.

Clinton went as an emissary of the United States. Do you think he would have been sent WITHOUT George Daddy?

So you are going to keep your body and your politics holy and pure and untainted? You will never do business with anyone who has ever done a bad thing?

Are you kidding me? Are you 12?

DID THEY GET THE JOB DONE? But you think it should have been politicized (you know, what Bush does) and no one who disagrees with you should have been allowed to help anyone after the tsunami? And that makes you different from Bush in what way?

[bryant69]

4. I have put out my eyes so that I don't run the risk of even looking at a Conservative

Why haven't you? Are you some kind of Bush lover?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Horse with no Name]

7. I certainly don't sleep with my enemies

What was wrong with Clinton calling on Carter to help? Clinton has always had the world by the tail. The world community loves him. Poppy not so much.
Why Bush?
These people supposedly made his life living hell.
Why enable them?

[pnwmom]

15. Bush is President. HE appointed Clinton and his father to represent the U.S.

Get it? Clinton couldn't appoint himself and then "call on" Carter. He's not President anymore.

And politicians have always "slept" with their political enemies. Ted Kennedy is good friends with Orrin Hatch, for example. Until very recently, most politicians were able to keep their personal and political views separate. I think this is one of the problems with the current political culture, starting with Newt Gingritch and his ilk -- it's not a good thing that we are so rarely able today to put aside differences and work together for the common good.

[mondo joe]

16. Clinton has never viewed Republicans as enemies. Listen to him talk sometime.

He's about competing ideas.

[pnwmom]

20. I think this is why some DUers are so suspicious of him. They want him

to treat Rethugs in the same way that creeps such as Gingritch and Delay treat the Dems.

But nothing in Clinton's nature could ever make him behave like those two.

[mondo joe]

21. Sure. But - I agree - thats just not who he is. There's a reason he was very popular

as President and had a lot of crossover votes.

[Virginia Dare]

29. Clinton is one of those rare birds who doesn't let politics..

effect his personal feelings. He doesn't appear to hold grudges at all. It's all just a game to him. You win some, you lose some.

[pnwmom]

42. I'm not sure that "it's all just a game to him." I think it's that he's

learned not to take things personally, which is a good quality.

[Virginia Dare]

48. The political part, not the public service part..

I guess that didn't come out right. I think he's truly dedicated to making a difference in the world, and he always has been.

[sendero]

70. That's why...

... he lost it in that TV interview.

[Whisp]

61. Clinton's nature. I'm happy for you that you got that pegged.

I'm still wondering.
There are other 'natural' laws at work here. Mostly against most of us.

[Hippo_Tron]

66. For one, Bush appointed Clinton and his father

Secondly, Republicans don't like Clinton and Carter. By having the two of them lead the initiative they would be alienating a potential donor base that Poppy could tap into.

This wasn't politics, it was Tsunami and Katrina relief and the objective was to raise the most money for the people in need of it.

[mondo joe]

3. Bill Clinton wanted to be President. Not Activist-in-Chief.

[aquart]

6. Translate into English?

We can start by you trying to explain what you THINK you're saying.

[mondo joe]

14. Bill Clinton is a mainstream Democrat. He wanted to be President. He is not,

and never has been, about waging war against other Americans. He's a consensus builder. So of course he's going to work with other ex Presidents on causes.

[WinkyDink]

30. NAFTA was not "mainstream Democrat". Nor was his welfare "reform".

His economic policies otherwise were proven excellent.

[dysfunctional press]

40. nor was the telecom act of 1996.

and as to his economic policies- the tech boom is what made them work so well.

[pnwmom]

43. You're assuming that "mainstream" equals liberal.

[Dhalgren]

8. Yeah, the whole "yin & yang" thing they have going is creepy.

The Clintons appear to believe that the Bushes are really fine, good Americans who are just wrong on some things and maybe a little inept. Both Clintons are far too intelligence and "in the know" to actually believe this, so one is left with thinking that the two families are in collusion...

[TwilightGardener]

11. I get that impression too. I never understood why there would be

any kind of relationship between those two families, and yet the Clintons and the Gores don't pal around together.

[pnwmom]

17. The Clintons are behaving like gracious people who expect the best in others,

not like the nasty Newt Gingritches or Tom Delays, who want to demonize their political enemies. This doesn't mean that they had blinders on, or let themselves be taken advantage of. But, with regard to their common aim for the good, they give their political opponents the benefit of the doubt. Until the onset of Gingritch, this is how the majority of Senators behaved. This is why Senators have always had friends "across the aisle" and why Presidents and ex-Presidents refrained from criticizing former or current Presidents.

[Captain Hilts]

19. So many people here want Dems to behave as Gingrich, Armey did. Not I. nt

[mondo joe]

25. Don't forget - a lot of DUers are just waiting for "the revolution" and aren't

interested in working in the system.

[Horse with no Name]

37. "working in the system"?

The system is broken.
How do you work within that?

[mondo joe]

38. Case in point. Don't expect presidents to lead a revolution.

[Dhalgren]

32. Bush has destroyed this country precisely because he has been

given the "benefit of the doubt". The "doubt" is long past. Anyone in this country who still doubts Bush's motives and his aims is either stupid or lying. Anyone who says that Bush and his administration is trying to do what is best for this country is either stupid or lying. The reason this country is in the shape that it is in is because politicians who should have known better treated this regime as "politics as usual" and gave it the "benefit of the doubt". I have no use for that kind of politics any longer.

[pnwmom]

44. You're right that Bush's motives are now clear. But Clinton was able to help the

tsunami victims, and so he did. That doesn't mean that his eyes, and HRC's, haven't been opened to the evils and stupidities of the current administration.

But a good poker player doesn't show his hand. I bet Clinton is a good poker player.

[sendero]

71. Exactly...

... I agree with the OP 100% and I expect HRC to be about as good a president as Bush is.

[pnwmom]

10. Why did Clinton go? He was trying to help the TSUNAMI VICTIMS, not Bush, Sr.

Maybe you should write a novel.

[Horse with no Name]

13. I understand that

and will save the novella for you.
However, WHY allow Poppy to ride on HIS coattails?

[TwilightZone]

18. The cause transcended political division.

Having former presidents from both sides ensured that it would remain that way.

As far as "coattails", perhaps Mr. Clinton was unconcerned with who should get credit.

Edit: typo

[pnwmom]

22. Why allow Poppy? Who said he had a choice? Bush invited him AND Poppy

to fundraise for the tsunami victims. Clinton agreed to go. Period. No big conspiracy necessary.

[Didereaux]

12. Jr's buddies and beliefs are at odds with Pappy's crowd....

That is why the consternation and gnashing of teeth in the back rooms by the NeoCons about Bob Gates. Gates is no prize, but he is a dues paying member of the Globalization of business' crowd.....which leads directly to your subject! Clinton is also a member, so is Jimmy Carter, although his dues may be in arrears at this time.

BIG business depends upon STABILITY, that is how you can then carefully plan and follow through on long range takeovers and mergers, and price settings. Instability blows all planning out the window. It provides openings fro 'newcomers' such as Halliburton et nausum. Notice it has taken almost three hears for the 'usual suspects' GE, Boeing, etc to actually get a proportionate share of the Iraq pie.

Scary, and sickening thought, but it just may be that those global corporatists may be the only ones with sufficient clout and resources to cleanse the NeoCONS and religious zealots bent on achieving their 'god' ordered missions.

Sometime a deal with an evil devil is necessary to defeat the insane devil.

[Virginia Dare]

24. My personal view is that it's more about mutual respect...

Bush pulled out all the stops to take the Clintons down and he couldn't do it. Probably the first people in his whole life he couldn't get to, and I think he gives them their props.

I'm sure Poppy gave Clinton some invaluable assistance and advice over the years as well. I think Poppy also flaunts his friendship with Bill Clinton, obviously someone little boots hates and despises, in front of his son, because he in fact has nothing but contempt for him.

We simply could never know the mechanics behind that complicated relationship, but there has probably been some sort of truce between the two. I will never in a million years buy that Poppy or any other Bush is enabling Hillary Clinton's run for the White House though. Too much time and money is being spent trying to tear her down.

[JackRiddler]

27. Um... what did Bush ever do to take the Clintons down?

I presume you mean during the RW attacks on the Clinton presidency? How was Bush involved?

[Virginia Dare]

31. Poppy Bush...

you don't think he was involved in the right wing smear attack against the Clintons? Look at who his friends are, especially in the media.

[JackRiddler]

34. That's a pretty weak association...

His friends in the media plus the rest of the media played their role. As involved I would characterize people like Scaife, Olin, Gingrich, Hyde... where's even the oblique connection (like GWHB to coke dealing/Iran-Contra)? He may have enjoyed it, but where was he, or any of his usual crew?

[Virginia Dare]

36. Don't forget the Moon connection...

Poppy's very good at keeping his fingerprints off things though, all the more reason to suspect he was pulling levers behind the curtain.

One anecdotal note: I knew some people at the time Clinton won office who were appointees in the Poppy administration. Clinton made the fatal mistake of keeping a lot of those people on for a while until he could get his transition completed. That bunch hated him with a passion and were all about revenge and smear. I don't think the Clintons ever dreamed the levels that these people would stoop to in an effort to trash them. That's of course where Linda Tripp came from.

[pnwmom]

47. Don't you remember? The whole Rethug crowd was beside themselves that

"trailer trash" like the Clintons had invaded the domain of the "patrician" Bush family. The Bushes very clearly helped orchestrate the attacks that began from practically the minute Clinton took the oath of office.

You really think the Bushes, with all their dynastical pretensions, weren't a huge part of all that, behind the scenes?

[JackRiddler]

57. I don't know -

what I can see is Scaife, Olin, Hyde, the entire nomenklatura of pundits including many faux-liberals, the Paula Jones operation - orchestration by Papa Bush and crew is an assumption. I'm not aware of any of his usual cronies being prominent in it.

Bush had his mistress too, remember?

I can also see Clinton & "Papa Doc" Bush very buddy-buddy today, far beyond what tsunami charities might require.

[pnwmom]

59. I think that Clinton pretending to be buddy-buddy with Poppy is

a wonderful way to needle the Shrub -- whose narcissism must be severely wounded each and every time someone calls this to his attention.

[JackRiddler]

60. Sorry if I think that face value is a value

When you never engage in straight talk about a criminal regime, how much does it matter if some minor actions can be questionably interpreted as "needling"? This hour calls for something decidedly more, and the Clintons as usual are playing self-serving games.

[WI_DEM]

26. Now I've said that Clinton is the son Poppy always wanted, but I don't hold the

Tsunami thing against him. It was supposed to be a joint bi-partisan effort.

[WinkyDink]

28. I don't understand the coziness. Father/Son wannabe's, whatever. Poppy is still the son

of a Nazi, still a contender for JFK murder involvement, still the former head of the CIA, still the Iran-Contra shadow figure, etc.

[Virginia Dare]

33. Yeah, and still an un-indicted former President too....

hopefully the same won't be said of his son in a few years...:(

[pnwmom]

50. The coziness is in your mind, planted there by the spin of the media.

It's not real.

[Ghost in the Machine]

62. No, not real at all....

[Arkansas Granny]

35. Bill Clinton and George Sr. were asked as former Presidents to

work to help alleviate the suffering caused by the tsunami. They worked together in a humanitarian, not political, effort as emmisaries of the US and that is exactly as it should have been, IMO.

[LeftishBrit]

49. ITA!!!

[cuke]

39. It's even worse than you can imagine

The Clintons were the one's who planted the nuclear bomb under the ocean and detonated it to cause the tsunami

[Horse with no Name]

41. Don't give up your day job

because you really aren't that funny. I'm positive I'm not the only one who has told you that though.

[LeftishBrit]

45. IMO there are some things beyond politics

I'm no fan of Daddy Bush, and even Clinton, though I respect him, was a bit too conservative for my socialist tastes; but tsunami relief was SO important that I think one needed to endorse ALL efforts there. If Maggie "Evil One" Thatcher had been raising money for tsunami relief, I'd have endorsed her efforts!

As far as Hillary helping out Dubya in anything similar, I don't think you'd need worry, because there is NO WAY he'd make the effort to do anything constructive, or achieve any success if he did try. Look at his horrific uncaring incompetence with regard to Katrina.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

46. OH MY GOD.

THEY HELPED THE TSUNAMI SURVIVORS!

HOW COULD THEY?!??/1/1/1

[Horse with no Name]

53. It doesn't surprise me in the LEAST that that is what YOU took

out of this.:eyes:
But the hillary apologists are ever faithful and ever diligent to do everything they can to misinform.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

64. So I'm a Hillary apologist now, eh?

That's fucking rich. I'm certainly no fan of Hillary. I'm also not a fan of bullshit.

[JackRiddler]

56. They also appeared together at a couple of Super Bowls

Did tours, expressed friendship, joked for press, etc.

[Marrah_G]

51. Ah yes...don't vote for Hillary because

Her husband worked with a Bush to get aid to Tsnumi victims, therefore touching a much broader base, so obviously he didn't really care about the victims he was just trying to make the former Bush Prez. look good after he is dead so that the former Bush would help get his wife elected.

It all becomes clear now........

The victims didn't need any help anyway. This helping people shit just has to stop. It is far more important to make BushI continue to look like a ass then it is to help real people.


GEEEEEEEEEEEEZ............. this place has some twisted fucking logic sometimes.

[Horse with no Name]

52. not to bounce you off your soapbox

BUT I NEVER said the tsunami victims didn't need help.
It's that ASSumption thing that "some DU'ers" do so well.:eyes:
Please read what I wrote. It might be a stretch for you to understand, but I will try to help you wrap your head around it.
WHY.DID.BILL.CLINTON.LEND.A.HAND.TO.HELPING.THE.POPULARITY.OF.GHWB?
Bill didn't NEED the help of ANY Bush to raise money for the tsunami victims.
He didn't NEED Jr's help. He didn't NEED Poppy's help.
He could have probably raised just as much as Private Citizen Clinton.
But instead, he helped the legacy of Poppy Bush--which had taken a severe beating.
Now wrap your little head around the truth, will you, and stop making up shit as you go along.

[Virginia Dare]

55. So when Clinton was asked by the Bushes to help out the tsunami victims..

because they needed his worldwide name and popularity to get it done, he should have said FUCK YOU, I'LL DO IT MYSELF?

C'mon, you can't be that petty.

[tammywammy]

54. I'm no fan of Hillary, yet this isn't a reason that I won't vote for her

I thought that the two former presidents setting aside political differences to help people in need was great. It was actually one of the few things that I think President Bush did that was right.

And in the greater scheme of things, history isn't going to take that event in order to give Bush Sr. a good legacy.

[Disturbed]

58. New odd couple: Hillary Clinton and Newt Gingrich

New odd couple: Hillary Clinton and Newt Gingrich - International ...
The two former rivals have teamed up on a number of issues, including health care and the New York senator's presidential prospects in 2008.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/05/13/news/clinton.php

The Clintons are the Great Triangulators.

[Cha]

63. I know...UnFuckingReal..

but there ya have..and we're suppose turn the ol' blind eye to the Big DOOOOG.

[Hippo_Tron]

65. Give me a fucking break...

Clinton and Bush working together on Tsunami and Katrina fundraising made the efforts nonpartisan as they should be in order to be as effective as possible.

If anything Bush's legacy is resurrected because compared to his son, he wasn't nearly as much of a fuck up.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

67. Bill Clinton supported Tsunami relief efforts

wow what an evil asshole, I am shocked by such behaviour. Let's purge him from the Democratic Party right now.

[Perry Logan]

68. The important thing is always to be attacking Democrats. Never Republicans. Just Democrats.

Anything that pops into your head is all right.