Why Bush's debt will destroy this country, even if the people get political control

[ProfessorPlum]

In Naomi Klein’s book The Shock Doctrine, she picks out one pattern in recent history that has been repeated many times, and seems sure to happen in this country as well. In Poland, in South Africa, in Argentina, in Bolivia . . . in every country where a corrupt, totalitarian government is replaced by a people-powered movement that promises and hopes to actually use the power of government to help its citizens, the new government finds that it cannot. The stories are incredibly depressing. In each case, the corrupt government runs up large debts, often with a large proportion of the amount it’s spending concurrently ending up in Swiss bank accounts. Then, the people rise up and take back their countries. But the IMF and the World Bank won’t let them out of the debts incurred by their predecessors, and won’t give them any aid until they accept a raft of conditions that amount to corporatism run wild: a free market economy with no safety nets for workers, no investment in the people of the country. If the newly formed governments try to spend any money to help their people, by providing them healthcare or welfare or social security or wage guarantees or protective tariffs for local businesses, the markets devalue their currency and send their economies into freefall. In each of these countries, the reformers are forced to give in and open their countries up to pillage by multinational corporations, which buy up their resources, exploit their workers, and generally make life miserable.

Now we have our own totalitarian government which is running up huge debt. If we, the people, ever manage to take control of our government again, will we be able to preserve our protections for workers, or our social security? Not likely.

[ixion]

1. if we stopped borrowing today, there's a slight chance we could dig our way out...

but we won't stop borrowing today, this month, this year, or ever, so yes, we are totally screwed.

[Blackhatjack]

2. Chavez broke this mold in Venezuela, and the IMF, World Bank WERE NOT HAPPY...

Chavez recognized that there was enough $ which could be generated from the oil being produced in his country to 'pay off the IMF/World Bank loans' without giving up corporate control of the country's most valuable resources.

In order to do this he had to 'nationalize' the oil industry and void oil contracts with the world's largest oil corporations.

He did it, and now that the loans have been paid off Chavez is using the generated oil wealth to buy influence with other South American countries which have been in the same position that Venezuela was in.

There are many reasons to dislike Chavez when it comes to civil liberties and freedom of press, but you have to acknowledge that he had a strategy which has proved to be successful --and it depended upon standing up to the United States and the IMF/World Bank.

[ProfessorPlum]

5. Actually, Klein cites South America as the hopeful

outcome of learning about how "shocks" are leveraged against people. She feels we can learn.


And look at the outrage that has been leveled against Chavez. The moneymen don't like to be crossed. Thanks for this excellent point.

[ProfessorPlum]

9. Actually, though, I don't think Chavez's strategy would work in the US

First, the people in this country would have to be aware of what's at stake, and then they'd have to realize that just letting corporations run everything is not the way to a great life. Both of which are not only unarticulated in the current media, but completely verboten. So, our dialog won't even allow that there is a war between corporatism/big money and the interests of the people, let alone acknowlege that letting the people win on some issues might be a good thing.

[Yael]

3. I just ordered this. Am looking forward to reading it. I think.

:scared:

[ProfessorPlum]

4. It is the best, most important book I think I've ever read in my life

and it is scary.

[Yael]

7. That is what I am looking forward to and also very afraid of

[Lasher]

6. Borrow-and-spend Republicans

We should hear that repeated at least once every single Sunday on the talk shows. I have no idea why Democrats don't pick this up and beat the Republicans to death with it. It is a source of frustration to me.

[Uben]

8. We're not even close to being in financial trouble........yet

The US has a national debt proportionally similar to that of France or Germany and about 50% of Japan’s.

[ProfessorPlum]

10. This must be why we were allowed to keep Social Security.

It won't be as easy next time.

[Uben]

12. We'll be fine

We just need to get a congress that is fiscally responsible. Balancing the budget won't be too difficult if we can get our ass out of Iraq and Afghanistan. We could eliminate the debt altogether in as little as twenty years with proper restraints on spending.
Social security will be made-over in the next five years, and my guess is they will raise the eligibility age to reflect the increase in life expectancy. We'll start drawing SS benefits at age 75 instead of 65, and that will give the cushion needed to support the boomers, though they will have to wait longer to retire. It's just a matter of time, cuz it will happen.

Baby Boomers have saved an average of approximately $120,000
-- a mere 12 percent of what they'd need for a 20-year retirement, spending
$30,000 a year (adjusted for inflation). The $30,000 figure will likely only be half of what they'll really need as some experts think the cost of living will double in the next twenty years.

Right now, if you want to retire with an income of $60,000 per year, you will need a savings of two million dollars!

[StrongBad]

11. Unless we start printing massive amounts of currency...

...or something equally as drastic, inflation will be kept relatively at bay and the debt won't have that much spillover effect.

The more important economic indicator to watch is GDP and residential/business investment. Those are very mediocre right now and are the reasons why there is a 50% chance of a recession in the upcoming quarters.

[valerief]

13. self delete