Hurray! Feds rescue box of food and water from being stolen by 6 illegal aliens at Qualcomm!

[begin_within]

U.S. Border Patrol agents arrest six undocumented Mexican nationals at Qualcomm after a report that they were stealing food and water meant for evacuees. I for one am SO relieved the federal government has finally stepped in to help. Thank HEAVENS that box of cookies and case of bottled water was saved!!!! Or whatever the items were. Now they can be given away free to someone else instead of those undocumented aliens! Hurray for the federal government! It makes me so glad I pay my taxes, when I see that a case of Aquafina was rescued!

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/usa/news/article_1368569.php/Six_illegal_aliens_arrested_at_Qualcomm_stealing_supplies

Meanwhile,

[saracat]

1. I am glad they were caught! I hope they are punished.Those that steal from evacuees are no better

than the price gougers.While I believe that the Feds need to do more, this arrest was not a bad thing.Surely you don't think this should have been ignored?

[The Straight Story]

2. Indeed, they should only arrest those here legally who steal

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

4. Those illegals have no business coming here and

evacuating from our fires.

[Richard Steele]

35. :) nm

[Zhade]

106. And another LOL!

Indeed.

[Zhade]

105. LOL!

NT!

[MindPilot]

3. The police should come down hard on looters.

But I think what has gone unmentioned over the past few days is that there are many many migrant worker camps in those canyons.

Those people are just as displaced as the folks who have lost their houses. They just can't prove it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. Thank you! nt

[Matariki]

7. Right. A friend from San Diego just sent me this article -

As the homes above them have been evacuated in recent days, many of the agricultural and day laborers who live in the region's canyons have remained behind in their encampments, many of them afraid to leave.

more:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20071025-9999-7m25migrants.html

[EFerrari]

29. So awful and a prime example of how dangerous illegal immigration is

for the immigrants.

[Gormy Cuss]

55. Yes, and it should surprise no one in SoCal that these people are also at risk because of the fires.

The middle of a natural disaster is not a good time to enforce immigration laws.

That said, the men arrested at Qualcomm were either loading up on supplies to hand out to those immigrants at risk (a good gesture even if not legal) or they were garden-variety crooks. If the latter, their immigration status is not relevant and mentioning it serves no purpose except to fuel anger against illegal immigrants.

[EFerrari]

58. Check. n/t

[laylah]

72. Some ignorant wench

today on WJ stated it is because of the illegal immigrants that the fires started. Some people's kids just ain't had no fetchin' up.

[Gormy Cuss]

85. Ugh. n/t

[EFerrari]

90. What a surprise. n/t

[frylock]

8. correct

[TahitiNut]

196. "Displaced"? How did the San Diego wildfires "displace" them from their homes in Canada, Mexico, ..

... or wherever? Isn't being a "migrant" the same as being perpetually "displaced" ... voluntarily?

I guess I'm a bit confused. At the same time, I sorta wonder about the folks (like my cousins) who're voluntarily evacuated from an almost unthreatened home, in virtually no need whatsoever, who're driving to the distribution centers and picking up some freebies.

Oh well ... they pay more taxes, I guess. :shrug:

[EFerrari]

201. Are you sure they pay more taxes?

:)

[TahitiNut]

203. Only when I'm visiting Disneyland.

:rofl: Out on the mean streets of Anaheim, I'm not so sure.

(That's becoming one of my favorite allegories.)

[EFerrari]

205. LOL! I'll never forget the time my mom (who has papers, btw)

told me she paid more taxes than Goodyear did that year. That's when it hit me, the Cleaver family was full of it!

lol

[begin_within]

6. I'm just extremely relieved to know that those bottles of water will be used to

quench the thirst of people whose thirst really deserve to be quenched - the people who drove 15 minutes down I-15 in their air-conditioned SUVs and Hummers to get to Qualcomm, and NOT to quench the thirst of those awful people who crawled and climbed for 3 days through rugged, dangerous, remote canyons and hillsides to get across the border and then to Qualcomm.

[librechik]

28. I so agree with you

After all, think of the inflated prices those awful looters could get on the street for those commodities!

Let them die of thirst in their own country instead of dirtying our streets here.


um...
:sarcasm: in spirit with the OP, I believe.

[Wcross]

65. You ASSume it was merely bottled water.

A woman who had been evacuated to the stadium told officers she saw the group load up two pickup trucks and a car with cots and other supplies, leave and then return, said police Sgt. Jesse Cesen~a.

When officers stopped them, a member of the group said they were being paid to take things of value from the stadium.

"They were stealing a lot of stuff," Cesen~a said. "We took the stuff back and we escorted them out. They were stealing from the people in need."

Because some members of the group spoke Spanish, officers called Border Patrol agents at the stadium for relief efforts. They determined the people were in the country illegally and arrested them.

http://sosdfireblog.blogspot.com/2007/10/illegal-immigr...

[merh]

9. well you know "those" people

if they know they can get away with things, they will just keep coming back and doing more.

Though I am rather confused, I thought the food at the evac centers was free, how do you steal free stuff?

:shrug:

[begin_within]

10. By having the wrong color skin

[merh]

11. note to self - next visit to evac center bring passport to prove

citizenship. free food and water only free to us citizens :crazy:

[Wcross]

32. Note to merh, read the entire story before you post.

The Los Angeles Times reports that San Diego police responded to a call about alleged theft from the evacuation center and encountered six people in a van who didn't speak English and didn't have California driver's licenses, Foreman said.

The police officers called the Border Patrol, who arrived at the stadium and made the arrests, he said. Foreman said the immigrants admitted they were Mexican citizens and that they were stealing.

See, you might not have posted a silly theory that they were arrested just because they didn't have any identification.

[merh]

150. You cannot steal free shit

Don't be an ass - I read the story

They may be illegals - which means they are subject to deportation (big shock) - but they are not thieves as you cannot steal free shit.

[Zookeeper]

177. So, if you made a donation to a needy family and someone...

else snatched it first, it wouldn't be stealing?

[merh]

200. No, if there is a place where food and water is being given away

and folks come and take some of the free shit, it is not theft.

[Wcross]

194. "Free shit" is what you are going with? LOL!

It was actually the supplies needed by those in the stadium. They got away with three vehicle loads and came back for more. Do you think God took a big shit and all of a sudden there was "free shit" in the streets? The "free shit" was paid for with disaster relief funds. The "free shit" that these people stole for monetary gain could have been used by future disaster victims if not needed in this disaster.
"Free shit" my ass. Somebody paid for it and it was not intended for theft & resale. You really need to think about that "free shit" theory.

[merh]

199. It was not going to be sold - guess what not all dark skinned folks are criminals

it was going to be taken to other immigrant workers hiding in the fields, too afraid to come to the evac center for fear of being deported.

The free shit theory is legit. Go look at the theft laws, there has to be a value and if it is being given away and not sold, it is free.

[Chovexani]

215. Remember what Katrina taught us

White folks are foragers and brown folks are looters

[merh]

219. you forgot another lesson from Katrina

the press reports are so very accurate. :crazy:

[Chovexani]

220. The media is always fair and balanced!

And would never, ever jump to conclusions or engage in sensationalism for ratings. :crazy:

[Wcross]

216. Where did you get that? Don't bother reading anything, it might upset your imagination.

From the newspaper;

However, six people were caught stealing relief supplies yesterday from Qualcomm Stadium. An evacuee reported seeing them load two pickups and a car with cots and other items, leave and then return.
One in the group said they were being paid to take items of value, police Sgt. Jesse Ceseña said. The six, suspected of being illegal immigrants, were turned over to U.S. Border Patrol agents who were at the stadium to assist with relief efforts.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071025/news_1...

Obviously they WERE taking things of value & were being paid to do so. Where did you get that bullshit story that they were stealing it to be taken to other immigrant workers? Do you have a link to that story? Is there anything to support the claim other than your imagination?

Guess what, these six people were criminals. Nobody (except yourself) has made a claim that all dark skinned folks are criminals.

Wake up.

[merh]

217. Obviously folks were shooting at helicopters in NOLA

you believe whatever explanation is given to the press, I don't and probably never will again.


oh, btw, saddam really didn't have any WMDs

[Wcross]

221. So instead of believe a news report you make shit up?

BTW- since it was just "fee shit" that was going to be "used anyway", can I have the "free shit" in your wallet? Its just going to be consumed anyways........

[tyedyeto]

187. Perhaps, the story that wasn't told...

Where were undocumented workers (I refuse to call them illegals, like so many do here), who were evacuated supposed to go? Where do they receive any sort of aid?

They cannot go and stay at any 'official' shelter or they would be deported. Who in the area is giving toward those PEOPLE who are displaced? Just because they are not documented doesn't mean they are any less affected by the fires.

Where's the compassion folks? Sadly to say, many at this Democratic website have no compassion for their fellow human beings.

[merh]

218. they have no compassion

thank you for your compassion

[Wcross]

31. Or "MAYBE" they were spotted loading up supplies?

Do you think it is possible that they drew attention to themselves by loading up a vehicle with supplies intended for people at the stadium? Do you reckon maybe THATS why the police decided to take a closer look at them?

[begin_within]

41. to bring supplies to their brothers and sisters hiding in the canyons in the fire zone?

[Wcross]

50. Again, if anyone bothered to read the story.......

The Los Angeles Times reports that San Diego police responded to a call about alleged theft from the evacuation center and encountered six people in a van who didn't speak English and didn't have California driver's licenses, Foreman said.

The police officers called the Border Patrol, who arrived at the stadium and made the arrests, he said. Foreman said the immigrants admitted they were Mexican citizens and that they were stealing.

Now why wouldn't they say they were "to bring supplies to their brothers and sisters hiding in the canyons in the fire zone" instead of saying they were stealing?

You can put as much lipstick on this as you want but they were removing supplies intended for people at the stadium. Stealing by their own admission.

Don't fear bob, they will be back here shortly after they are deported.

[begin_within]

71. When the time comes, remind me to nominate you for Humanitarian of the Year

[Wcross]

84. Remind me to nominate you for apologist of the year!

They were thieves.

However, six people were caught stealing relief supplies yesterday from Qualcomm Stadium. An evacuee reported seeing them load two pickups and a car with cots and other items, leave and then return.
One in the group said they were being paid to take items of value, police Sgt. Jesse Ceseña said. The six, suspected of being illegal immigrants, were turned over to U.S. Border Patrol agents who were at the stadium to assist with relief efforts.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071025/news_1m25looting.html

[DeaconBlues]

93. so, someone catches you on your lack of knowledge of a story

that you yourself posted - and you attack them as being anti-humanitarian. Nice logic.

[begin_within]

103. Blame the messenger, and blame the poor, homeless and powerless.

[LittleClarkie]

185. How do you know they were poor, homeless and powerless?

Because they were from Mexico?

Maybe they were stealing so they could make a buck off the stuff.

[EFerrari]

202. How many undocumented workers do you know

who are affluent and powerful?

[tyedyeto]

188. Bravo!

These posters have no idea what it would be like to be evacuated and told.... 'Don't go here or there cause you'll be deported'.

Just like Katrina... black people 'loot' , white people 'find'.

Now it's.... brown people steal.

[EFerrari]

54. I think part of the comprehension problem here is that

in Anglo culture, we use "I" a lot more often than we use "we". I think that's true, anyway.

If my tribe were in the fire zone AND undocumented, my uncle Sal and his sons would be out trying to organize a way to keep us safe, fed and watered and at any cost to themselves because la familia comes first.

[Wcross]

59. I think the problem is people defending thieves BECAUSE they are illegal aliens.

A woman who had been evacuated to the stadium told officers she saw the group load up two pickup trucks and a car with cots and other supplies, leave and then return, said police Sgt. Jesse Cesen~a.

When officers stopped them, a member of the group said they were being paid to take things of value from the stadium.

"They were stealing a lot of stuff," Cesen~a said. "We took the stuff back and we escorted them out. They were stealing from the people in need."

Because some members of the group spoke Spanish, officers called Border Patrol agents at the stadium for relief efforts. They determined the people were in the country illegally and arrested them.

http://sosdfireblog.blogspot.com/2007/10/illegal-immigr...

They were stealing. They were stealing for profit. They were not merely stealing bottled water, they were stealing anything of value.

[uppityperson]

67. Your "proof" is a blog posting that doesn't exist?

Hmmm. Doesn't fly for me. Try again. Search shows me the same writeup on "Americans for Legal Immigration" webpage, still just someone writing, not a valid linnk.

[Wcross]

75. Ok, here is the newspaper article. Same story.

However, six people were caught stealing relief supplies yesterday from Qualcomm Stadium. An evacuee reported seeing them load two pickups and a car with cots and other items, leave and then return.
One in the group said they were being paid to take items of value, police Sgt. Jesse Ceseña said. The six, suspected of being illegal immigrants, were turned over to U.S. Border Patrol agents who were at the stadium to assist with relief efforts.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071025/news_1m25looting.html

[uppityperson]

80. Thanks for the article. Having been through disaster chaos, info can be scanty & wrong.

Looting is wrong.

[tyedyeto]

191. Just like Katrina

Black people loot and white people find.

Now, it's the brown people who 'steal' and the white people have clowns, magicians and jugglers to entertain them.

Where do the undocumented go when they are evacuated? Who is helping them with water, food and sleeping arragements? NO ONE!

[sniffa]

82. it's a good thing you posted that again

fucking iLLegaL thieves!!!1!

[EFerrari]

161. I don't even know how to respond to such a slur. n/t

[EFerrari]

204. So, who were the other members of that group who didn't speak Spanish?

What happened to them? Were they also turned over to La Migra?

And you bet, I stand with undocumented workers. Their countries have been fucked over by American corporations with the complicity of the American government. Then, they get to come here and live in horrendous conditions and get paid squat AND for a bonus, they get to be vilified by racists. You bet I stand with them.

[begin_within]

145. Maybe if they walked a mile in the shoes of the migrant workers, they would see it differently

Apparently in their view, the food and water being given out is only for the guy who owns the 5-bedroom house at the top of the hill, not for the guy living in a cardboard box at the bottom of the canyon in back of the same hill. Most DUers and Democrats actually are classist when push comes to shove.

[Wcross]

170. Still defending paid theives Bob? (it wasn't just food & water)

However, six people were caught stealing relief supplies yesterday from Qualcomm Stadium. An evacuee reported seeing them load two pickups and a car with cots and other items, leave and then return.
One in the group said they were being paid to take items of value, police Sgt. Jesse Ceseña said. The six, suspected of being illegal immigrants, were turned over to U.S. Border Patrol agents who were at the stadium to assist with relief efforts.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071025/news_1...

"One in the group said they were being paid to take items of value"

I wonder why you are so passionate in your defense of these thieves. You naturally assume they are living in a cardboard box? Is that not stereotyping illegal aliens? You know nothing about these thieves other than that they were caught stealing relief supplies for money yet you assume they live in a box? They had freakin vehicles to pick up the loot. You reckon they have "off street parking" for those vehicles Bob? Right next to the cardboard box?



:argh:

[begin_within]

178. No wonder the Democrats lose elections.

Just Republicans with a coat of paint.

[Wcross]

180. LOL- you are so full of yourself with your "compassion".

These people stole from a collective reserve of supplies in a serious emergency. These people did it not out of need but FOR THE MONEY. What part of STEALING do you not understand? I don't give a rats ass about their immigration status they stole supplies people were depending on to survive. They stole it for the fucking money they could get for it!
I guess you got a new coat of paint Bob. You condone people stealing from a group that needs something and converting it to their own profit.

[EFerrari]

208. delete

[EFerrari]

224. Oops

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2157891&mesg_id=2157891

[LittleClarkie]

186. And cots and things of value that they were being PAID to steal

I don't think it was for la familia somehow.

And what kind of reverse racism is it that has you assuming that because they were illegal and Mexican that they were desperately poor. You are assuming that which you do not know.

[DeaconBlues]

89. if you had bothered to read the whole story

You would have learned that the looters were grabbing things of value to sell. They were not there to bring "supplies to their brothers and sisters."

[uppityperson]

92. take a breather, "the whole story" is just coming out, we won't know "the whole story"

probably for some time. How about taking a breather rather than jumping on people responding the the story as more information becomes known?

[EFerrari]

97. The story says "food and water". Do you have a different link?

[Wcross]

99. Pretty clear they were stealing cots & "other items".

However, six people were caught stealing relief supplies yesterday from Qualcomm Stadium. An evacuee reported seeing them load two pickups and a car with cots and other items, leave and then return.
One in the group said they were being paid to take items of value, police Sgt. Jesse Ceseña said. The six, suspected of being illegal immigrants, were turned over to U.S. Border Patrol agents who were at the stadium to assist with relief efforts.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071025/news_1m25looting.html

[EFerrari]

110. So the real question is, who hired these people to do that?

I'm betting it's not someone without papers. What do you think?

[Wcross]

163. I don't have a clue but AM curious how you came to that conclusion.

You must be a regular "Dick Tracy" to place a bet on it

[EFerrari]

193. No. It's just too big a risk for an undocumented person to take.

[Wcross]

197. What is too big a risk?

Sending other people to steal is too much risk for an illegal to take? Remember now, the alleged theieves are illegal aliens. So you were saying.........

[EFerrari]

198. I'm saying that the whole thing reeks. The undocumented people

I know are religious about their car tags and brake lights and all of that because they don't ever want to come in contact with officialdom. It's pretty hard to imagine that this thing was cooked up by someone like that.

That's what I was saying.

[merh]

222. Guess you was wrong

Hell, I knew it all along, but that's cool, hate interferes with the operation of the mind.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2157891

[DeaconBlues]

81. Ding. Ding.

You have won the most ignorant post award of the day.

[uppityperson]

12. They put food/water into the van to take away rather than drinking there?

My cynical side wonders if any white people did this too. I'm of the mind to give them water/food to take away since it seems they probably need it.

[EFerrari]

56. I actually wondered if they weren't hired to do that

by someone who wanted to make a buck.

There are a lot of possible scenarios. Until this thread, though, I hadn't even thought about all the people who can't waltz into Qualcomm because they have no papers. :(

[uppityperson]

73. Reading through eveything here, if they were stealing to resell, it was wrong.

Rather like people taking more MRE's than they need so they can resell them later to me. A problem I have here is I am condemning people based on minimal information which may be inaccurate. I remember stories in NOLA post-Katrina that turned out to be false.

[EFerrari]

78. Right. I was thinking that six people with no papers

wouldn't do this on their own. That would be crazy risk taking. If that is what happened, someone hired them to do it and promised to compensate them. That's one possibility.

But, there's something stinky about this reporting. I guess we'll find out later -- just like we always do after no one is paying attention.

[uppityperson]

95. That could be also. Lots of possibilities, proving again that over reacting to scanty info makes

asses of u and me (assume). Not calling you an ass, talking about assuming things from scanty info, talking about me too. We will find out later, maybe.

[EFerrari]

98. Just don't call me late for dinner.

:)

[treestar]

13. All border agents can do to them is deport them

All they needed was their illegal-ness to do that. They don't have to claim they are trying to steal anything from anyone.

Yeah, the undocumented alien problem is so damn important, we should not stop worrying about it in the midst of disaster. :sarcasm:

[no_borders]

14. I'm With You Bob

You're right, Bob. I, too, hate it when the law is enforced. Let's have anarchy. Let's let everybody into the USA and let them do whatever the hell they want to, especially during a major crisis. And while we're at it, let's do away with those pesky borders and unite the whole world. It's what Bush and his cronies want, after all.

[blogslut]

17. Welcome to DU

Do tell, did it ever occur to you that you're being played for a sucker?

[blondeatlast]

173. Get a load of the username.

:wtf:

[LSK]

20. actually, in Europe you are now free to drive from country to country

But we all know that place is burning to the ground as we speak. Not.

[Zywiec]

61. Only countries that are in the European Union

and those countries must meet certain standards to gain admission.

[tjwash]

23. Want some needle nose pliers to pull out that hook line and sinker you swallowed?

Good on ya Bob...you flushed out another one! :rofl:

[rucky]

25. You've already hit the irony limit on your first post.

welcome, nonetheless.

[blondeatlast]

174. Ain't that the truth? This one could be almost as fun as...

Nah, this one isn't as smart.

[SammyWinstonJack]

30. How very compassionate of you.

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

192. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RebelOne]

15. It seems that you condone the illegals stealing. n/t

[begin_within]

34. I condone the act of giving water to thirsty people.

[Wcross]

36. We all do, we just don't condone "to go plates" in large quantity.

Had they joined the people in the stadium they would have had no problems. They would have had the same access to the supplies as everyone else did. It is when you start loading up your vehicle with bulk supplies that you draw the attention of law enforcement.

[begin_within]

40. OK, then drink your 6 gallons right now. No "to go."

[uppityperson]

68. Link to that allegation is needed.

As above, your proof is posting to a non-valid blogspot blog. Not good enough.

[Wcross]

77. Newspaper link.

However, six people were caught stealing relief supplies yesterday from Qualcomm Stadium. An evacuee reported seeing them load two pickups and a car with cots and other items, leave and then return.
One in the group said they were being paid to take items of value, police Sgt. Jesse Ceseña said. The six, suspected of being illegal immigrants, were turned over to U.S. Border Patrol agents who were at the stadium to assist with relief efforts.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071025/news_1m25looting.html

Sorry if you didn't like the original source. The story however, is the same.

[uppityperson]

88. Thank you.

[EFerrari]

38. It seems that you are prone to jump to the worst conclusions

on the thinnest evidence.

[Zhade]

111. "The illegals" - such stark racism.

They're people, they can't be illegal.

[dysfunctional press]

16. some more facts about the 6 illegals at qualcomm-

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20071025-9999-1m25looting.html

...However, six people were caught stealing relief supplies yesterday from Qualcomm Stadium. An evacuee reported seeing them load two pickups and a car with cots and other items, leave and then return.

One in the group said they were being paid to take items of value, police Sgt. Jesse Ceseña said. The six, suspected of being illegal immigrants, were turned over to U.S. Border Patrol agents who were at the stadium to assist with relief efforts.

[blogslut]

19. suspected of being illegal immigrants

...

[Wcross]

26. Don't bother getting any facts before you post!

The Los Angeles Times reports that San Diego police responded to a call about alleged theft from the evacuation center and encountered six people in a van who didn't speak English and didn't have California driver's licenses, Foreman said.

The police officers called the Border Patrol, who arrived at the stadium and made the arrests, he said. Foreman said the immigrants admitted they were Mexican citizens and that they were stealing.

Not only were they suspected of being illegal aliens they admitted it! Oh, they also admitted they were stealing.

[blogslut]

33. Yes

But I was referring to a UPI story. I had not read the one you provided.

My cynicism is for the sensationalist attention paid to the story. I do not know the finer details and neither do you. There's a possibility these are immigrants, living in a worker camp, brought here by American companies, allowed to do so by American law enforcement and legislators that look the other way. Maybe these 'thieves' intended to bring the supplies to workers still in those camps - or perhaps to other undocumented workers. Then again, if they indeed, came over the border to pillage relief supplies, how sad is that?

[RebelOne]

27. Legal or illegal, they were still stealing.

Being legal doesn't justify that.

[EFerrari]

39. Did you see this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2133091&mesg_id=2133471

[RebelOne]

45. Let me repeat: THEY WERE STEALING.

[EFerrari]

47. I think TahitiNut already made that point.

These people were stealing. The suburbanites that flocked to benefit from the freebies were "enjoying".

[karlrschneider]

57. A fair number of DUers think stealing is okay...generally - and self-defense is bad.

But of course there are crazy fuckwits in every community.

[EFerrari]

60. You don't have enough information to draw that conclusion

and you certainly have no business calling me names or pathologizing me.

You can do better than that. I've seen it happen, many times.

[karlrschneider]

63. Uh, the 'conclusion' is clear from a regular reading of DU.

And I didn't mention you at all.

[EFerrari]

66. Remember all the horrible rumors that flew in the aftermath of Katrina?

Remember how most of them turned out to be complete cr@P? We know from experience that these stories are distorted and, maybe, a function of fear and helplessness. "Brown people gone wild!"

And, what the heck does the immigration status of these people have to do with anything? Thieves are thieves, no matter where they were born or reside -- if these people turn out to be thieves. This story is just stoking xenophobia which is particularly unhelpful in an emergency situation, doncha think?

[karlrschneider]

69. Well, hell - they told the authorities they had been stealing. So they were either thieves or liars

Pick whichever one offends your sensibilities less, I suppose. Sheesh.

[EFerrari]

74. There's something wrong with this story, Karl.

I don't know what it is yet, but it doesn't add up.

I'm not offended and sorry if that's how it came off or whatever. There's something here that doesn't make sense.

[Zhade]

118. No, Karl - we were TOLD that someone said they were stealing. THERE WAS NO DIRECT QUOTE.

Think about that.

[EFerrari]

137. There is so much room for bad things to happen here.

And looting by colorful people just isn't real high on that list.

I wonder how many people were afraid to evacuate.

I wonder how many people evacuated and were afraid to look for help.

I wonder how many people will die and their deaths will go uncounted.

[NOLALady]

184. Thieves, Liars or tortured to confess.

They've been beating confessions out of people around here for as long as I can remember.

[EFerrari]

223. And sure enough, this story was bullshit:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2157891&mesg_id=2157891

[Zhade]

114. You responded to a poster who was talking with SFexpat.

Jesus, at least have the honesty to admit you WERE, in fact, talking about SFexpat.

[EFerrari]

214. It doesn't matter. It's just hugely unproductive. n/t

[Megahurtz]

164. Lol!

:D

[LSK]

18. so if you have 3 minutes to leave your house, do you get all your documents?

How many undocumented non-mexicans are getting free food and water?

[Wcross]

22. Read the story- your assumptions are wrong.

The police officers called the Border Patrol, who arrived at the stadium and made the arrests, he said. Foreman said the immigrants admitted they were Mexican citizens and that they were stealing.

Border Patrol agents are not looking for illegal immigrants at the center but will continue responding to police calls for assistance, according to the Los Angeles Times.

[Wcross]

21. Regardless of their immigration status- the supplies weren't "to go".

Weren't the supplies on hand for the people at the stadium? I would expect to be arrested if I started loading up my vehicle with relief supplies intended for fire victims AT the stadium. What if 100 vans showed up and were allowed to load up? At some point the people seeking shelter at the stadium would run out.
I guess they shouldn't have drawn attention to themselves in that way. If they had just used the supplies like everyone else they probably wouldn't have had the police call immigration on them.

[nonconformist]

24. My thoughts exactly

[mondo joe]

37. How dare the Resue Nazis try to control access to resources intended

to get people through this crisis?

(Do I really need the SARCASM tag here?)

[EFerrari]

42. Because we all know that only citizens are at risk in this crisis.

Illegal aliens don't burn like American citizens, or hunger or thirst.

[mondo joe]

43. It's not about citizens or not - they are managing the supplies and need

to dole them out to evacuees.

I don't really care if the people stealing them are citizens or not.

[EFerrari]

46. The thing is, if you had no papers, you'd be looking at a set of bad choices.

Do you risk deportation or do you try to stay in the (now dangerous) shadows.

Going through official channels is dangerous. Not going through official channels is also dangerous.

[mondo joe]

48. And yet the rescue workers need to manage their resources, and bear

the responsibility for tending to the needs of the evacuees.

I can hardly fault them for restricing access to ensure they can do their work, which is to help evacuees.

[EFerrari]

51. Do we know these six people weren't also evacuees?

I see your point. And, mine is (I think) that it's unrealistic to expect a whole population who has no resort to the law to disappear in such a crisis.

I wonder how many of these undocumented people will lose their homes and be unable to get any help at all.

[mondo joe]

62. I don't. But it's not relevant. Evacuees need to have the resources managed.

It's not a free-for-all, which would be the absolute worst way to try to manage a crisis situation.

[EFerrari]

70. Fine. Then the effen' emergency plan needs to deal with REALITY

and plan for the emergence of undocumented workers who are also evacuees precisely in order to make sure things go as smoothly as possible in the middle of all that chaos.

[mondo joe]

83. Yes, they do. I don't know the circumstances on the ground well enough

to say how they're managing it or aren't, and what the circumstances of those arrested are.

I do know that maintaining an illegal population is not a good idea, for many reasons including the health and safety of those whose legal status creates a barrier to the sort of infrastructure that meets human needs. Please don't construe that to mean I think this situation is the fault of those who are here illegally - the problem is much larger than that. But it is one reason I think it needs to be addressed rather than tucked under a rug somewhere.

[EFerrari]

86. This situation puts us all at risk but that seems not to matter

to Bush's base. :(

[KittyWampus]

44. Imagine if it were white folk stealing from Katrina victims. Or Neocon cohorts stealing from Iraq.

[devilgrrl]

49. How many people think this story is a heaping pile of BULLSHIT?

I do! :hi:

[EFerrari]

52. Watchit! You're helping the terrorists!

:hi:

[Wcross]

64. The real story.

A woman who had been evacuated to the stadium told officers she saw the group load up two pickup trucks and a car with cots and other supplies, leave and then return, said police Sgt. Jesse Cesen~a.

When officers stopped them, a member of the group said they were being paid to take things of value from the stadium.

"They were stealing a lot of stuff," Cesen~a said. "We took the stuff back and we escorted them out. They were stealing from the people in need."

Because some members of the group spoke Spanish, officers called Border Patrol agents at the stadium for relief efforts. They determined the people were in the country illegally and arrested them.

http://sosdfireblog.blogspot.com/2007/10/illegal-immigr...

[devilgrrl]

76. SFW? The MSM is trying to incite the public to target "illegals" aka Latinos.

Period!

Therefore, it's still BULLSHIT!

[Wcross]

79. How about a newspaper link?

However, six people were caught stealing relief supplies yesterday from Qualcomm Stadium. An evacuee reported seeing them load two pickups and a car with cots and other items, leave and then return.
One in the group said they were being paid to take items of value, police Sgt. Jesse Ceseña said. The six, suspected of being illegal immigrants, were turned over to U.S. Border Patrol agents who were at the stadium to assist with relief efforts.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071025/news_1m25looting.html

[devilgrrl]

87. A thief is a thief is a thief - wtf does being a "illegal" have to do with anything?

Huh?

Would it make you feel better if it were white kids from the 'burbs?

[Wcross]

94. I didn't post the original article.

I didn't take issue until some posters claimed they were arrested BECAUSE they were illegal aliens. I was pointing out they were arrested because they were thieves. I did not know what you meant by saying "this article is bullshit". I assumed you meant that they didn't steal anything so I offered proof that it wasn't just needed supplies.

Sorry for the confusion. To me it isn't about their legal status, it is the fact they were stealing needed supplies.

[devilgrrl]

100. Didn't you know that only "illegals" are thieves? That's really what's being reported here...

that's how I'm reading it. I am not defending theft, I am pointing out the blatantly racist tone that this story is being reported.

There is NO NEED to bring up race or nationality - simply informing us that 6 individuals where caught stealing would have sufficed. And that's why I'm calling it BULLSHIT.

Now that we know where we're both coming from - I apologize for the flames.

[EFerrari]

102. It's amazing that no matter how many times we get fed the same bs

some of us buy it like there's no tomorrow.

[devilgrrl]

107. You should go over to LBN, there's a few over there getting lovey-dovey with Wal-Mart...

because they donated money to the fire victims.

:eyes:

Which now excuses them from being the slimiest corporation known to man.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3042440

[Zhade]

Isn't that just fucking reprehensible?

Some around here have fly-by-night ethics, I swear!

[Wcross]

104. You are right, however it was part of the original post.

You have a problem with Bob, the original poster. It just irked me that people were defending the thieves. It would irk me no matter who the thieves were.

[EFerrari]

121. The theft was not being defended. The racism was being called out. nt

[incapsulated]

96. Wcross didn't start this thread for godsakes

Wcross is posting FACTS in response to "omg, those poor immigrants were probably dying of thirst and were driven to this to get water to their comrades in the canyons" fantasy.

They were stealing anything for money, period. Loading it up in trucks.

If you don't want attention drawn to illegal immigrants stealing from evacuees, people shouldn't start threads acting as if it is an outrage when they are arrested.

[EFerrari]

101. So, you both managed to miss the point of the OP.

Cool.

[Wcross]

109. No, he was making the point that the feds weren't helping w/ the fire.

However, I joined the thread late and noticed he was defending the theft. The fact that they were turned over to the feds is probably because the local police didn't want to deal with it.

[EFerrari]

115. Do you believe he was defending the theft?

I didn't read that. I read that this big hullabaloo was being made over the immigration status of these individuals when the real story is probably that some entrepreneur hired them to do his dirty work but as soon as you wave "illegal" in front of the American public, that becomes the story.

And now, as a result of this thread, I'm really worried about all the people who can't come forward and get help because of their status.

[incapsulated]

130. Actually, he did

Read upthread, he was one of the first people insisting this was an innocent attempt by people to quench their thirst and "help their brothers and sisters in the canyons".

[EFerrari]

132. So, proposing a different context endorses theft?

[incapsulated]

133. Inventing a story to make them out to be innocents

Yeah, I think it does.

[EFerrari]

135. Then you are reading too narrowly and too literally.

Tell me. If you were undocumented in a fire zone, what would your options be?

[Wcross]

155. "some entrepreneur " AKA bigger thief.

There is nothing entrepreneurial about stealing things........

[EFerrari]

157. Sure there is. It's just illegal and immoral. n/t

[incapsulated]

113. No, I did not, but the OP was the one who brought up the whole

Illegal immigrant issue. And then the thread took off from there. She is acting as if the responses were bringing it up out of the blue, it's absurd.

[EFerrari]

117. The OP was lampooning the racism in the reporting.

I don't want to start a new war here.

It's just saddening.

[devilgrrl]

120. And that's why I called the story BULLSHIT!!!!

[EFerrari]

124. LOL!

Thanks! I needed that! :)

[incapsulated]

123. "Would it make you feel better if it were white kids from the 'burbs?"

That is what she said to him. Because he quoted the article in question. In response to her assertion that this was all a MSM plot to target illegals.

I don't think that Wcross is doing anything other than answering people who were imagining that these were innocent, hungry victims who were forced to take what they needed. They, in fact, missed the whole point of the story by weaving this tale of woe.

[EFerrari]

127. What is the point of the story in your opinion?

[devilgrrl]

129. Wcross has explained himself and doesn't need your help.

This story is being reported the way it has to put fear into the hearts of the public about those thieving illegals from south of the border! And that's all there is to it.

[incapsulated]

131. That is your OPINION

And the OPINION of the OP within this thread was that they were innocents just trying to get supplies to immigrant victims "in the canyons".

[EFerrari]

134. The OP did forward that proposition.

And you have no idea what these guys were attempting, either directly or indirectly.

[devilgrrl]

136. I couldn't care less what the OP said - I do care that the story has a racist undertone.

And if you can't except that, then don't talk to me.

[incapsulated]

142. The ONLY arguments I was making here

Was that Wcross didn't start this and that the people arrested admitted to stealing for money.

If you want to argue that the headline and story from that piece was unnecessarily highlighting the fact that these were illegal immigrants, I AGREE with you.

[KamaAina]

165. "were being paid to take items of value"?

Paid by whom? Probably not by another undocumented immigrant. :eyes:

were turned over to U.S. Border Patrol agents who were at the stadium to assist with relief efforts.

To assist with relief efforts? I sincerely hope so. Yesterday there were rumors that they were in there looking to round up undocumented evacuees!

[Gormy Cuss]

108. Hey, devilgrrl. I have a plan.

I'll meet sfexpat2000 at SFO and we'll fly down to L.A., pick you up, rent a van and have us a road trip to Qualcomm. I'm thinking we could make some $$$ because who would suspect us of looting, three women who speak English?

[devilgrrl]

112. I wonder if the MSM would report it as "3 white women caught trying to steal shit from other whites"

I bet it would go down just like that. :crazy:

[tjwash]

116. Nah...it'll be like Katrina..."white people find, black people loot"

They'll just change a word or two around that's all

[EFerrari]

139. TahitiNut found a keeper: White people "enjoy". n/t

[KittyWampus]

146. How do you know that girl is white, in the 2nd photo? She looks like a black friend of mine

[EFerrari]

148. I didn't see any stories about white looters during Katrina, did you?

On the other hand, I was pretty worried about a number of people and wasn't keeping score.

[NOLALady]

225. I know she's white

because the media said she FOUND supplies.

[Megahurtz]

166. And....are ALL of you "White"???

LOL!

[EFerrari]

189. Looks like it. And out to give white women a bad name.

lol

[EFerrari]

141. I can pass for a Latina if things get dicey.

lol

[devilgrrl]

147. And if we get caught - we can blame the Jews!!!

:silly:

[EFerrari]

149. Or, the internets!

:rofl:

[Gormy Cuss]

152. Excellent plan!

That way while the media's focusing on the police and ICE arresting and deporting you, we can go back for a second load.
:crazy:

[devilgrrl]

144. Now that I think of it.... sounds like a plan!!!!! They'd never suspect a bunch of flighty broads!

What a excellent idea!

PM your phone number, we need to put this plan in motion!

:silly:

[blondeatlast]

175. I do--and now I've got the stench on me. Yuck. nt

[Wcross]

53. I am glad an alert citizen spotted the thieves. Too bad all that will happen is deportation.

A woman who had been evacuated to the stadium told officers she saw the group load up two pickup trucks and a car with cots and other supplies, leave and then return, said police Sgt. Jesse Cesen~a.

When officers stopped them, a member of the group said they were being paid to take things of value from the stadium.

"They were stealing a lot of stuff," Cesen~a said. "We took the stuff back and we escorted them out. They were stealing from the people in need."

Because some members of the group spoke Spanish, officers called Border Patrol agents at the stadium for relief efforts. They determined the people were in the country illegally and arrested them.

http://sosdfireblog.blogspot.com/2007/10/illegal-immigrants-arrested-for.html

[devilgrrl]

91. Yeah! Deportation? F*** that sh*t! Let's WATERBOARD them - the WETBACKS!!!!!!

You're unbelievable. :eyes:

[Wcross]

156. Unbelievable?

You are the one using racial slurs dear. Nobody suggested torture either. I would like to see them punished for their thievery but all that is going to happen is they will be deported. I give them a week before they return to steal again. Oh, that's right, they are just looking for a "shot at the American dream".:banghead:

[devilgrrl]

158. Yep, and only "illegals" would steal things - if we get rid of them there will be no crime.

BTW, I wrote this before our other exchange - and my opinion still stands that the report is racially charged.

[Wcross]

162. Should the incident have been suppressed or what?

Ok, people were stealing relief supplies and the police called the border patrol. There are two ways to handle reporting it. 1) You suppress the entire story or 2)Report that people were caught stealing but no arrests were made by San Diego Police for the theft. Maybe state that the thieves were detained by federal authorities for crimes that we can't mention so we don't offend anyone? Heaven forbid we get too much information


:nopity:

[Name removed]

171. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Wcross]

181. Now you are being irrational.

To even think an incident as small as this would spark a national crackdown is laughable. With 30 million illegal aliens in the country do you REALLY think people aren't aware of them? I guess if you need the cheap labor, illegal immigration is a good thing. For the working man it is another reason he can't get ahead.
I am really sorry you decided to make it personal. I will delete my violin and call it an evening.

On edit;
I tried to delete the violin but the period had expired. Sorry.

[EFerrari]

190. That's not irrational. It's predictable and here's a link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2137736&mesg_id=2137736

[Megahurtz]

172. No...

they should have turned the other cheek and done nothing if they saw those poor defenseless Mexicans stealing!:nopity: Let them help themselves and steal all they want and whatever they want!!! Hell, may as well hand them your identity papers before they steal them because they need those too!!! Give them your paycheck, your checkbook and your fucking car!!!

Now if you see those lazy White people stealing handcuff and arrest their asses and throw the book at them!!! After all they're White for fucks sakes THEY DON'T NEED ANY HELP!!!!!!

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

[Romulox]

168. People don't "represent" their phenotypes or legal status. These *individuals* committed a crime.

[devilgrrl]

169. and they were ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:
:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:
:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:
:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:

Feel safer now that they were caught?

[Megahurtz]

179. Since When Are People From Mexico A "Race"???

:shrug:

:wtf:

[devilgrrl]

182. Where did I mention Mexico?

:wtf:

:shrug:

[Megahurtz]

183. Don't Play Dumb Now!

:+

You said the News article is "racially charged". The thieves that were caught are from Mexico. So since the article is about stealing I am asking you how can this be a matter of Race when Mexicans are not even a Race. The article stated that they were caught stealing and suspected illegal and turned over to authorities which would result in deportation if they were indeed illegal. The statement in the News article is a matter of jurisdiction of a Country, not about their presumed Race.

Would it make you feel better if they were from Sweden? :sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

195. Maybe this poster can help you out:

Now if you see those lazy White people stealing handcuff and arrest their asses and throw the book at them!!! After all they're White for fucks sakes THEY DON'T NEED ANY HELP!!!!!!

[EFerrari]

159. The myth of immigrant criminality

http://www.ailf.org/ipc/special_report/sr_022107.pdf

[EFerrari]

119. The major creepiness about this whole flap is

that the people who have the fewest resources and the least ability to tap any are being demonized.

I think I better go take a walk.

:hug:
:grouphug:

[devilgrrl]

126. That's what they (the powers that be) want. DIVISION!!!!!

And that's why this story is being reported the way it has. It's fuel for the fire in the war against the weak.

[EFerrari]

138. Bingo.

:cry:

[RebelSansCause]

122. this is terrible

these are hungry and thirsty people, displaced from the fire. they are migrant workers. why are we talking the means to live away from them?

[Mountainman]

125. A list of this sites most popular stories, some not too news-ie me thinks

Most Popular Articles on M&C Today
1. Britney Spears' new sex video
2. Majorca fall girl's mother found dead in seaside cave
3. Christopher Walken's butt double
4. Day four of California fires sees possible break with weather (Oct 24 AM)
5. Indonesian promoter says he will hold Copperfield's stage props
6. Feds investigating Orange County fires, arsonist sought
7. McCanns: Waiter says children left alone for four nights
8. Majorca fall girl's father tells of 'very difficult time' for family
9. Mary-Kate Olsen's bikini blushes
10. ANALYSIS: Bush chides international community on Cuba

[devilgrrl]

140. From Yahoo's Most Viewed....

Calif. wildfires are still not contained

The Prescription for No Squabbling

Bush visits California wildfire victims

Red-headed Neanderthals? DNA says yes: study

Che Guevara hair lock to be auctioned



Some hard hitting shit huh? :sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

143. How did I manage not to meet you when I was in Santa Monica?

Oops, I went and used that evil language. My bad. :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

128. Oh the nerve of them!!

How dare they get hungry or thirsty! Those are strictly white American habits!!

[EFerrari]

151. When I read these stories, I always wonder when the real one

will come out. And, we'll all be on to the next thing.

This is just like the time I caught a crew (of probably undocumented Latino workers) pouring paint into the sewer a block away from the ocean.

They didn't make that decision. Their boss did. They were trying to keep life and limb together and trying not to piss off their boss. I talked to them and got the boss arrested. Sometimes things really do work out. It's hard to remember that, sometimes.

Makes you wonder how many of these "bosses" direct undocumented workers to do illegal activity because they know damn well that their workers can never turn them in.

/him -> them

[TimBean]

153. the difference is ...

these people in a van were loading up supplies meant to be consumed by those in the stadium. Thus, they were stealing. The police turned them over to the Border Patrol because they have enough to deal with.

[BadgerLaw2010]

154. Stealing disaster supplies is low, I'm sorry.

[devilgrrl]

160. And focusing on "illegal" immigrants as the only people who would steal stuff is A-OK!

Nah! The report wasn't racist, it's what one would expect from THOSE people!

[Romulox]

167. They were just looting the supplies Americans won't loot!

The story suggests that someone was paying them to loot! :wow:

[Megahurtz]

176. No Shit. n/t

[tyedyeto]

206. Who is helping these displaced people?

They ran from the fires, too.

OOOOOPs, I forgot, they have brown skin and have no documentation, so they are not entitled to any aid.

And furthermore, everyone knows the only people evacuated from these fires are middle and upper class white Americans. Sheesh...............

[EFerrari]

207. There's already one news story about undocumented workers

being ordered to keep working instead of evacuating.

Because if they GET KILLED, who is going to care. :puke:

[tyedyeto]

209. My heart breaks to hear these types of stories.

Not only can they not seek shelter or aid, they are being forced to continue working under unhealthy conditions.

[Breeze54]

210. That's ridiculous...YOU'RE ridiculous!

The HUMANE thing to do is help everyone in the disaster and sort out the other crap later!!!

If you saw a child drowning, would you say, "Let me see your papers first???"

Get a life! Grow a heart!! Gheesh!!!

[EFerrari]

211. BushCo has fanned up this stuff in the hearts of Americans.

They've been at it for decades and it's going to take decades to detox from it all.

[Breeze54]

212. Yeah, I know...I live here!!

:P

but thanks.

[EFerrari]

213. I'm about to take my puppy to go look at the moon

and thank my stars my papers are in order.

lol

:hug: