The crying game: male vs female tears

[redqueen]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071024/ap_en_ot/the_crying_game

NEW YORK - "Please, please, please, just give the dog back," Ellen DeGeneres wept on national TV last week. It was a moment that quickly established itself in the pop culture firmament, less for the plight of Iggy the adopted terrier than for the copious crying itself.

Setting aside the question of whether those sobs were 100 percent genuine, tears are a natural human response, and public figures are obviously not immune. But some who study this most basic expression of feeling will tell you that in this day and age, it can be easier for a crying man to be taken seriously than a crying woman.

(snip)

In a recently published study at Penn State, researchers sought to explore differing perceptions of crying in men and women, presenting their 284 subjects with a series of hypothetical vignettes.

(snip)

"Women are not making it up when they say they're damned if they do, damned if they don't," said Stephanie Shields, the psychology professor who conducted the study. "If you don't express any emotion, you're seen as not human, like Mr. Spock on 'Star Trek,'" she said. "But too much crying, or the wrong kind, and you're labeled as overemotional, out of control, and possibly irrational."


more at link...

Including more wonderfulness from Bill Maher. :eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

1. Churchill cried in public all the time. Gable and Tracy often did in their films. It's okay...

for men.

[stirlingsliver]

2. Ed Muskie (D-ME) Lost Out On Being President

Some of us remember that Ed Muskie lost on on his opportunity to be President of the United States because he cried in public.

[redqueen]

3. Yes, that's mentioned in the article. (nt)

[ThomCat]

4. Geez. I get teary-eyed at the drop of a hat.

:shrug:

It's a good thing I've never been a celebrity.

[ShortnFiery]

5. Excuse if I put on my psychoanalysis cap? - and the following is pure opinion.

I've watch Bill Maher over the years and I'm convinced that he holds an underlying, perhaps unconscious vein of misogyny in his character. He often lauds "hot women" but doesn't go out of his way to complement successful women except to honor the stereotypically male trait of "toughness."

Perhaps it's just me, but I don't think Bill Maher considers the typically feminine traits of magnanimity and consensus building as positive contributions to any successful woman's repertoire. I haven't noticed that he lauds such dubbed macho "candy ass* behaviors in men either.

I fear, like Chris Matthews, Maher only complements women when they're physically "hot" or when they "swagger." Unfortunately, far too many of the M$M's political analysts suffer from the same skewed opinion of laudable human behavior. :(

[renie408]

9. Ya think??

Hells YEAH Maher hates women. And kids. Put women and kids together and he gets REALLY nasty.

[soleft]

11. it is a serious flaw of his

he made some comment recently, I forget what he was comparing, but he said whatever it was was like a woman, basically constantly changing, emotional - all really negative traits. Or at least portrayed by him as negative.

[bpeale]

6. i usually only cry when i am absolutely furious

rage is what drives my tears

[Lilith Velkor]

7. Maher is such a douche

...and a PETArd to boot. x(

I bet he's the kind of guy who would start yelling at a woman if she cries in front of them. Why do so many of them do that?

[stirlingsliver]

8. "Douche"? I've Always Thought That Term

I've always thought the term "douche" -- and any of its variations -- to be inappropriate as an insult.

And I admire Maher's views with regard to animals.

[redqueen]

10. Hmmm... are insults supposed to be inappropriate?

Would an 'appropriate insult' be more like just a criticism? :shrug:

[stirlingsliver]

12. Yes.

I would never call anyone -- anyone -- a "B***h".

It would ne an inappropriate term to use to insult someone -- anyone.

Same with "douche".

[Lilith Velkor]

17. Why?

A douche is an insult to all womankind, purported to be a cleanser but in fact, at best useless and at worse an irritant. There is no term more appropriate for Maher.

But at least he doesn't anthropomorphize animals, I give him credit for that.

[TahitiNut]

14. "Why do so many of them do that?"

"them"?? Hmmmm... :eyes:

Some people are emotionally (cross-)wired and react with resentment (and anger) when they feel their emotional strings are being pulled. Feeling inclined to commiserate triggers a reaction to that INTERNAL response and, based on some personal history, the individual may resist their own inclinations. It often then shows up in an externally-directed reactivity.

With regards to "them" ... I've noted this in people of all demographic constructs.

[redqueen]

15. Agree that it's not an 'us' or 'them' issue...

I've seen too many moms wrinkle their noses when I ask about pink sandals for their sons after I find they have tomboy-friendly attitudes about their daughters.

However, I wonder how much of the response from men directed at women is due to fear of being manipulated. I wonder how much is due to simply having an overall negative view of the non-sexual traits which are most commonly associated with femininity.

[Lilith Velkor]

18. I haven't observed it much in female human beings

I've seen externally-directed reactivity, but in a more subtle form, a "pfft," an :eyes: and then walking away.

In male human beings, it has taken the form of getting up in the face and screaming, to the extent that I have had to resort to violence on a couple of occasions.

YMMV and all that...

[TahitiNut]

19. I don't confuse the MANNER in which folks react with whether they're reacting.

There's not much question that we're ALL culturally indoctrinated in the 'approved' manner in which we react - and there's a strong correlation between compliance with that indoctrination and reactivity itself. Men are inclined to react aggressively and women are inclined to react in judgmental ways - if only because they've/we've been 'trained' to employ those tactics.

I don't think it's any accident that there's far more reactivity to the Code Pink in-your-face protest (to Condi) among DU women than men ... and it's judgmental in nature. After all, the protester is employing aggressive tactics and violating a social gender taboo. That (imho) pulls some emotional strings - it steps outside the spectrum of "acceptable" gender-linked behavior and provokes a "I wouldn't do that" reaction. Whenever we're dealing with a "I wouldn't do that" feeling, we have a strong inclination to defend it, even though the 'defense' is acted out projectively.

[Lilith Velkor]

20. The manner of reaction is what's the problem, though.

If women were trained to be aggressive about it, they'd get in fistfights every damn time they went to a public restroom.

I just resent having to kick some dude's ass on top of whatever I'm upset about. It tends to make me feel worse.

Interesting point about the DU reaction to Code Pink. I don't recall DU being nearly so judgemental when Gail and Medea barged into Baron von Rumsfeld's press conference before the invasion, but it's much bigger and more mainstreamy these days.

[Withywindle]

21. This has always driven me crazy.

I bet he's the kind of guy who would start yelling at a woman if she cries in front of them. Why do so many of them do that?

Don't they understand that for some people, crying is totally involuntary? Yeah, like I want to get all red-faced and snotty and have trouble breathing through my nose and have puffy eyes for the next day and a half. Yeah, like anyone would do that on purpose. Ick. Believe me, if I could turn it off and on, I'd turn it off and keep it there. To be accused of manipulation for that? WTF??!?

[Lilith Velkor]

23. For real.

Those guys don't understand that because they think everything is about them.

I wonder if they would have a similar response to somebody crapping themselves in public? Nobody does that voluntarily, except this one crazy dude I know who does it every time he gets arrested.

[treestar]

13. I get so sick of these double standards

Though I'm not sure I believe it. Haven't we always been taught it is unmanly to cry? I would think the sexists would take that line.

[redqueen]

16. Yes, and the article mentions

the difference between a stifled sob and few tears and outright sobbing.

It's certainly not a black and white issue, this.

[Parche]

22. Cry

I cry when you dont buy me a drink.............:hi:

[Manifestor_of_Light]

24. I'm female. Back when I was working.....

and had a job, sometimes I would get so frustrated I would cry, and I didn't give a damn who saw me.

Once I had a female boss who got right in my face and yelled at me to stop crying.

I couldn't, so I kept crying. This was in a department store, behind a counter. Fortunately there were no customers around.

I cried one time at a fancy singles dance, sitting at a table, because nobody would pay attention to me or ask me to dance. I was a nobody.

Another time I had a temp job, and we were near the end of it, and didn't know how long we would be working. We sat at computers all day and fucked with databases. We didn't interact much, and the last week I sat there and quietly cried all day, because I was scared about the job ending.


I've gotten to the point where I don't give a damn. If somebody thinks I'm throwing a tantrum to get my way, I'm not. I'm just frustrated and embarrassed and want to go hide. It didn't matter how I acted, nobody would give me a chance anyway. That's because sexism is alive and well, and a short, very bright and highly educated female is threatening.

Now i'm unemployed and not suffering from that kind of job stress.

[redqueen]

25. I had a female boss do the same thing to me...

when I broke down one day on my first 'real' job ever.

So inhumane, some bosses.