F.Y.I. the authorities here in Cali told people to leave their pets inside houses & barns

[AlGore-08.com]

I'm starting a new thread because my response will probably get missed among all the posts condemning people for leaving their pets behind in the Cali wildfires.

But the authorities were all over TV and radio telling people to leave their pets inside their homes, barns and corrals. They said repeatedly that animals running around loose would be a problem for firefighters, but the firefighters would release the animals if necessary.

It was late Tuesday or early Wednesday they started talking about how animal control was bringing cages and animal food to the shelters to house people's dogs, cats, rabbits and reptiles - - and where the collection point was for large animals like horses. I'm still not sure if they these were available in all areas or just the ones profiled.

I don't think it's fair to condemn people for doing what they were told to do by the police and firefighters in a life or death situation. Personally, I would have taken my cat with me. But in doing so I would have risked being turned away at a shelter, since the authorities were saying "leave your animals". I understand how people (especially families with kids or seniors) would be unwilling to risk being turned away from safety and the best hope of steady food, water and medical supplies.

[Ian David]

1. Can you find a link to complete instructions about that somewhere?

For example, are you supposed to mark your home in a particular way so authorities know pets are inside?

[EFerrari]

2. What kind of emergency plan is that?

I knew this would happen while watching Katrina.

[AlGore-08.com]

7. I'm not an expert, but I think it's a relatively new concept that pets need to be planned for

And it's not surprising, given the limited resources of most local governments. Nobody is going to spend money to save dogs and cats until they have enough money to save all the humans. And in the middle of a disaster, it's hard to tell how long you'll need to be caring for displaced people or how many displaced people you'll end up with. There were a million folks on the move down here. Can you imagine the fallout if some areas had no food, water or shelter for folks but the wealthier areas were feeding and watering 40 rabbits in a safe, warm human shelter (one shelter profiled had forty rabbits)?

From what I could understand from the reporting, it was the various animal control agencies who showed up with the cages and food, and it was implied that they did this independently of any statewide plan. There were also charities and businesses who spontaneously donated food, water, blankets, cots, diapers, etc. outside of what the state and local governments were providing. Then the state organized the giving and then started actively soliciting it to help folks who lost their houses or businesses. That's my understanding, but I could be wrong.

[EFerrari]

10. That makes sense for public policy but not for pet owners.

How many thousands of years have we owned pets? And we're just now figuring out they need to be planned for? After Katrina, I put in emergency supplies for all of us for a month, plus a "to go" pack in case of evacuation. I promised to take care of these guys, not to expect someone else to take care of them.

But, it's easy to say that from the safety of my nonburning building. :(

How are things going down there? I'm afraid to watch the news.

[Virginia Dare]

19. The county I live in (Fairfax, Virginia)

received a Homeland Security grant for emergency pet shelters. We already have a plan in place. After Katrina, it was eminently clear that people were not going to leave their critters behind to suffer and die.

[efhmc]

3. This was the reason many people would not leave in NO because the

rescuers would not take their pets and the owners would not leave them behind.

[DemBones DemBones]

4. Good to know the facts. Most people do not

leave their pets behind willingly in such situations.

[EFerrari]

5. If the Master of the Universe went on teevee and ordered me

to leave my pets behind, I've have to tell him/her to get bent.

[Kingshakabobo]

15. I would sleep in my car or in a park if I had to.

I saw a story on MSNBC where the owner was reunited with the dog he left behind. He ran up to the dog but the dog didn't greet him. The guy was probably an asshole to begin with.

[Virginia Dare]

20. Yep, they'd have to shoot me...n/t

[bullwinkle428]

30. SAME HERE. I would have lived in the car with my cat

until the fire danger was over. If my place was destroyed, I'd obviously have to make more permanent arrangements anyway pet or not, and I'd still have my pet!

[Tyler Durden]

34. You were more polite than I'd have been .

[EFerrari]

35. We're talking about the Master of the Universe, after all.

:)

[Individualist]

39. Same here!

[ThomCat]

50. Agreed. I'd either take my cats with me or stay with them.

No way in hell am I leaving them behind.

[tandot]

51. Thanks for saying it so nicely

my post would have involved lots of *&%+, !#$%^&s, and a*&(+#$!s

No f*&^%$ way in hell will anyone tell me to leave my cat and dog behind.

"I have only five words for you: From my cold, dead hands."

[SammyWinstonJack]

52. Same here.

[natrat]

6. i would have taken my 3 dogs and lived in my car no question

[AlGore-08.com]

8. What if you came to a roadblock and the cops wouldn't let you take them out of the fire zone?

What if you ran out of food and water, and the only place that had any at all was the shelter? This did not happen here, but when we have major earthquakes, people run out of food and water quickly - - and often supplies can't get in right away because the roads are destroyed. After the Northridge quake, profiteers were selling bottled water for $20.

[Kingshakabobo]

16. That makes absolutely ZERO sense. Do you have any evidence the authorities were...

....even CONTEMPLATING keeping pets from leaving the fire zone?

[EFerrari]

23. If they were worried about animals impeding firefighters

common sense would dictate evacuating animals. :shrug:

[Virginia Dare]

38. Firefighters have been known to risk their lives saving pets too..

when I was growing up, our house burned down and some good samaritans broke into our burning house and got our dog out before the fire trucks ever arrived. We never found out who it was, but they've been in my thoughts ever since then (that is in 1972)....:loveya: :hug:

[EFerrari]

42. I'm lucky enough to live in firefighter central here.

Best neighbors, best human beans I've ever known. :loveya:

[robinlynne]

49. And animals often risk their lives to save humans.

[Virginia Dare]

58. Excellent point...n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. I think that's a bullshit excuse.

So what if you're turned away at the shelter? Go somewhere else.

[MoonRiver]

11. I would have NEVER left my pet alone in a house facing a raging fire, but,

people who stupidly did this remind me of workers in the WTC on 9/11, who followed the directions of the Port Authority to stay in their offices. We all know how well blind obedience to an authoritative voice on the loud speaker went for those poor souls. I fear for the pets left behind by their orders following owners.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. If they were in complete and utter panic I could understand.

If you're sticking around to videotape them as you leave them behind, you're not in complete and utter panic.

[EFerrari]

36. No, you're not. You're shooting a snuff film.

I can' believe people.

[MoonRiver]

37. I agree. I guess I don't want to believe people are so totally malevolent

toward their pets. Inexplicable, despicable, and criminal if they were. :(

[shance]

31. Nor would I. I cannot believe they told people to leave their pets to die.

or maybe I can.

[StarryNite]

53. Yup

brainwashed sheeple who can't think for themselves.

[Vinca]

13. I would have told the "authorities" to go to hell. nt

[begin_within]

14. There were 3 evacuation areas designated for large animals,

the Del Mar racetrack, the Lakeside rodeo grounds, and Fiesta Island in Mission Bay. All 3 accepted all animals, and had veterinarians on site, and I did see video of people with dogs and cats at Qualcomm Stadium.

[Mythsaje]

17. If I take an animal into my house

I am ultimately responsible for its welfare. There is no one on the planet with the moral power to tell me I must abdicate that responsibility. Come hell or high water, my animals get out when I do. It's not even subject to debate.

[Johonny]

18. You ever get the feeling

The DU is filled with a lot of people that would turn onto the sidewalk and run over 5 girl scouts to avoid running over fluffy the cat.

I wonder about the Africans that are fleeing genocide and have to decide if they can or can't provide for their baby think that Americans agonizing over the fate of hammy the hamster are perhaps a little nutty.

[EFerrari]

21. No, I never get that feeling.

[Virginia Dare]

22. false dichotomy...n/t

[Kingshakabobo]

24. Stupidest fucking post of the day!

[ehrnst]

27. No. Primarily because that feeling isn't based on any sort of reality. nt

[prole_for_peace]

28. sheesh... i sure hope you don't have any furkids.

and i actually might run over girlscouts to avoid hitting a kitty. we may never know. but i do know i would definitely run over you to avoid hitting any animal.

[slowry]

29. Too lazy to flame you, but you deserve as many as possible! Hmm... count it. n/t

[LanternWaste]

32. No, but...

No-- I've never gotten that feeling.

However I have gotten the feeling that there are a few DU'ers that may percieve love and empathy for pets as a subtraction of their love and empathy for anything else... almost as if they believed love and empathy were finite within the human condition and had to be parceled out.

[bullwinkle428]

33. Congrats on the Strawman Argument award for the day! (n/t)

[racaulk]

45. I wouldn't run over the cat.

But I wouldn't run over the girl scouts either.

The love and affection that I feel for my pets in no way detracts from my love of people or means that I value the life of one more than the other.

What a stupid post.

[uppityperson]

46. I get the feeling instead that

people like to react, or perhaps that we are so upset about How Things Are that we react to small stuff in a large way.

[dysfunctional press]

25. if i couldn't take my pets to a shelter, i'd be living out of my car.

but i would NOT leave them behind.

[shance]

26. Rules in many cases are made to be broken. Orders are made to be rejected.

n/t

[renie408]

41. Goddam skippy. n/t

[renie408]

40. Sorry, what the fuck ever. I read the thing about the people who left their GSD

We raise GSD's. Do you know how devoted those dogs are to their people? A GSD would probably sit right at that house and die before it would attempt to leave, because its job is to defend the house. And you know what? The goddam dogs and cats didn't have a CHOICE about where they lived and when they left. They relied on their people, the people they loved and trusted, to take care of them.

Nope, you might have the logical and responsible idea, but the whole thing makes me almost literally sick.

[Virginia Dare]

43. Damn straight...

I'd let my own self starve before my critters. We fostered a rescue dog that had been living out of a truck with it's owner. The owner was basically starving himself to death in order for his pup to eat. I could relate to that.

[uppityperson]

44. Only 2 recommendations for a post giving this information?

12 for the sexier one "how could they???". Oh well, guess this info isn't sexy enough.

[Bridget Burke]

47. A link to the story would be useful....

If you've got the pets in your car, you might not be accepted at the first shelter? So find another one.

Inconvenient, but hardly "a life & death situation."

[Duer 157099]

48. Wait a minute. Firefighters mostly try to save property.

Saving human lives is obviously the first priority, but after that, it's saving property.

How come non-human life ranks below property, that's the question here.

[haele]

56. They don't -

Lots of stories of police, reporters, and firefighters calling in the various Animal Rescue groups or corralling pets themselves if the owners were'nt around while they were evacuating an area in front of the fire line. There was a frick'in hot line to call if you couldn't transport your pet and had to evacuate. Anyone who, after the first day, knowingly left their pets locked up in their houses and evacuated without even attempting to inform anyone obviously had little concern about "the sanctity of life" - or cared about what suffering the poor creature would endure before it (hopefully) suffocated to death before the fire reached it.
Hell, I'd rather the couple who admitted to locking their cat in the bathroom before they left had just killed it quickly if they thought they couldn't evacuate it with them. God's sakes, people, just pop the cat in a cardboard box on the way out the door if you have to; you can deal with it once you get to safety.
Heck, even if you decided to stay and "try to ride it out and save your house", you could still call to get your pet evacuated to a free, safe area while you stayed.

Haele

[Nimrod2005]

54. BBQ?

I know it is not funny

[haele]

55. I don't remember that in San Diego -

At least the network affiliate and Sign on San Diego were constantly going on about pet shelters, doing stories about how people could take their pets to the Q, their large animals to various shelters around (i.e. the rodeo in Lakeside for horses), how the Humane Society shelters were prepared to take pets. It was a major focus of the storyline of the fires down here.
By all reports from the co-workers in Ramona, Rancho Bernardo, and Poway, even the first night when the firefighters or police knocked on doors, part of the information they provide was where you could take your pets. I don't know about the reverse 911 calls, but the ones that got those packed up their pets along with the kids when they went to the evacuation centers.

Maybe it was different in LA or OC, but in San Diego County animals were a priority above possessions for most people.

Where did you get information that people were being instructed to leave their animals? We never heard it once, and were pretty much glued to the television for the whole time (the Harris fire was showing an uncomfortable tendency to head our way, but never really got close).

Haele

[alstephenson]

57. I heard what haele heard...

On the Today Show this morning they said that they didn't want to have people staying behind because they couldn't take their pets (like NO), so people were told to take their pets to several places that would care for the pets. They showed the animals on Fiesta Island. Small animals were allowed into the Q - Al Roker was there this morning and I saw a woman with a small Pomeranian dog and another with cats.

I'm not sure whether SOME people may have been told to leave their pets behind, but it certainly wasn't wide-spread, and I don't believe ANYONE was obstructed from leaving the fire zone because they had pets with them.

[spoony]

59. But it's so much easier to condemn people fleeing for their lives.

Sickly enough, there was at least one person wishing that anyone who left their pets burn in hell. Instead of their house, I guess.