Veterans Cemeteries Ban Flag-Folding Ceremony

[Kadie]

Oct 25, 2007 10:13 am US/Pacific

Veterans Cemeteries Ban Flag-Folding Ceremony

(AP) RIVERSIDE Flag-folding recitations by Memorial Honor Detail volunteers are now banned at the nation's 125 veterans graveyards because of a complaint about the ceremony at Riverside National Cemetery.

During thousands of military burials, the volunteers have folded the American flag 13 times and recited the significance of every fold to survivors.

The first fold represents life, the second a belief in eternal life, and so on.

The complaint revolved around the narration in the 11th fold, which celebrates Jewish war veterans and "glorifies the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob."

The National Cemetery Administration then decided to ban the entire recital at all national cemeteries. Details of the complaint weren't disclosed.

more...
http://cbs13.com/topstories/local_story_298131745.html

[Turbineguy]

1. Well that's good

and easier to accomplish than getting Fred Phelps to stop.

[robinlynne]

2. whoops. wrong god. If they were talking about jesus everyone would be happy.

(not me. )

[flashl]

19. They didn't know ....

Rabbi Reveals Name of the Messiah

Shortly before he died, one of Israel's most prominent rabbis wrote the name of the Messiah on a small note which he requested would remain sealed until now. When the note was opened, it revealed what many have known for centuries: Yehoshua, or Yeshua (Jesus), is the Messiah.

A few months before he died, one of the nation’s most prominent rabbis, Yitzhak Kaduri, supposedly wrote the name of the Messiah on a small note which he requested would remain sealed until now. When the note was unsealed, it revealed what many have known for centuries: Yehoshua, or Yeshua (Jesus), is the Messiah.
With the biblical name of Jesus, the Rabbi and kabbalist described the Messiah using six words and hinting that the initial letters form the name of the Messiah. The secret note said:

Concerning the letter abbreviation of the Messiah’s name, He will lift the people and prove that his word and law are valid.

Read More ...

[Richard Steele]

3. So, a single antisemetic loon complains, and a longstanding tradition is now verboten?

What a crock of crap.

[tabasco]

6. Just fold the flag and give it to the survivors.

That's the tradition. At least from my experience.

The weird recitation I've never seen before.

[Richard Steele]

14. I've never heard the recitation either.

But if some veteran WANTS that at their funeral,
they should have it. It's their funeral.

The anonymous complainer can have any sort of funeral
he wants, and it's none of his damn business what anyone
else wants at theirs.

[benddem]

4. I've had to sit

through this a number of times and I found it extremely discomforting. It is really just xtian mush.

[TomInTib]

7. Same here.

And every one of those folds is so wrenching for the families.

[tabasco]

5. I've been part of military honor guards to do the gun salute.

Kind of a problem because I'm a left-handed firer but had to fire right-handed for the detail.

I've never heard of this weird flag-folding deal.

Learn something new every day.

[Kadie]

13. here is some info I found...

This first link below shows pics of * standing on and signing the flag...


snip...
What is the meaning of the folds in a flag-folding ceremony?
There is no reference to meaning of the folds in the Flag Code (see below).

There is a popular but unauthorized flag-folding ceremony that cannot be used in government ceremonies, but can be used in private ceremonies. Click here to see the popular script and a discussion of the ceremony and the Establishment Clause.

In response to the problems with the ceremony above, read a new recommended Air Force Folding Ceremony that is not in conflict with the Establishment Clause.

http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html




The first fold of our flag is a symbol of life.

The second fold is a symbol of our belief in the eternal life.

The third fold is made in honor and remembrance of the veteran departing our ranks who gave a portion of life for the defense of our country to attain a peace throughout the world.

The fourth fold represents our weaker nature, for as American citizens trusting in God, it is to Him we turn in times of peace as well as in times of war for His divine guidance.

The fifth fold is a tribute to our country, for in the words of Stephen Decatur, "Our country, in dealing with other countries, may she always be right; but it is still our country, right or wrong."

The sixth fold is for where our hearts lie. It is with our heart that we pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The seventh fold is a tribute to our Armed Forces, for it is through the Armed Forces that we protect our country and our flag against all her enemies, whether they be found within or without the boundaries of our republic.

The eighth fold is a tribute to the one who entered in to the valley of the shadow of death, that we might see the light of day, and to honor mother, for whom it flies on mother's day.

The ninth fold is a tribute to womanhood; for it has been through their faith, love, loyalty and devotion that the character of the men and women who have made this country great have been molded.

The tenth fold is a tribute to father, for he, too, has given his sons and daughters for the defense of our country since they were first born.

The eleventh fold, in the eyes of a Hebrew citizen, represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon, and glorifies, in their eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The twelfth fold, in the eyes of a Christian citizen, represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in their eyes, God the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost.

When the flag is completely folded, the stars are uppermost, reminding us of our national motto, "In God we Trust."


http://www.usflag.org/foldflag.html

[leftynyc]

15. I just read something fascinating about

the 21 gun salute - it's 21 because it's the numbers 1776 added together. I had no idea.

[Mojorabbit]

8. At my dad's funeral

they folded the flag in silence.

[dflprincess]

9. My right wing cousin sent me the list of what each fold in the flag means a while ago

Read through them and you'll find that someone was grasping at straws to come up with 13 reasons (warning some items in the list may make you want to vomit)

Check out what Snopes says about them http://www.snopes.com/military/flagfold.asp

As it turns out there are 13 folds in the flags because that's just the way it worked out - they don't even represent the original states.

[BOSSHOG]

10. I've folded many flags at funerals of fallen servicemembers

and had to present a few to parents or widows, and I never had any speaking parts during the events (except for the very personal presentation.) I do not ever recall a recitation while the flag was being folded.

Now if ya wanna have the tears jerked out of your eyes, check out a flag passing event at a retirement ceremony. The flag is passed up the chain from lowest paygrade to the retirees paygrade in a very finely orchestrated ceremony as the MC reads "I am the American Flag."

[Demit]

11. Fuller story, with more explanation, at this link—

The full recitation of the 13 folds, etc., at http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_S_flag25.3ee2dc9.html

[AlCzervik]

12. At my Grampa's funeral they folded the flag in silence and that was at a veterans

cemetery.

[TornadoTN]

16. When my Grandad passed away in 2001, they asked us about this

We politely turned it down because we felt that the silence would be stronger than anything that could be spoken during that part of the ceremony. The soldiers that came from the 101st (he was a Screaming Eagle in WW2, earned 2 silver stars and bronze star, among others) were wonderful and really made the service as perfect as it could be.

[gratuitous]

17. If someone has a flag at my funeral . . .

I hope to shit and shout that one of my friends will stand up and recite "i sing of Olaf glad and big." I'm not scandahoovian, but I'd be glad to call Olaf my brother:

i sing of Olaf glad and big
by E. E. Cummings


XXX

i sing of Olaf glad and big
whose warmest heart recoiled at war:
a conscientious object-or

his wellbelovéd colonel(trig
westpointer most succinctly bred)
took erring Olaf soon in hand;
but--though an host of overjoyed
noncoms(first knocking on the head
him)do through icy waters roll
that helplessness which others stroke
with brushes recently employed
anent this muddy toiletbowl,
while kindred intellects evoke
allegiance per blunt instruments--
Olaf(being to all intents
a corpse and wanting any rag
upon what God unto him gave)
responds,without getting annoyed
"I will not kiss your fucking flag"

straightway the silver bird looked grave
(departing hurriedly to shave)

but--though all kinds of officers
(a yearning nation's blueeyed pride)
their passive prey did kick and curse
until for wear their clarion
voices and boots were much the worse,
and egged the firstclassprivates on
his rectum wickedly to tease
by means of skilfully applied
bayonets roasted hot with heat--
Olaf(upon what were once knees)
does almost ceaselessly repeat
"there is some shit I will not eat"

our president,being of which
assertions duly notified
threw the yellowsonofabitch
into a dungeon,where he died

Christ(of His mercy infinite)
i pray to see;and Olaf,too

preponderatingly because
unless statistics lie he was
more brave than me:more blond than you.

[frylock]

18. i just figured the 13 folds represented the only way to uniformly fold the thing..

go figure.

[Raejeanowl]

20. You've Got To Be Kidding Me

:wtf:

I've been to several including my father's at Arlington and NEVER was this recited with the flag-folding. Why dispose of the custom in its entirety just because someone inserted (unacceptable) religious references into it? Can't they just drop the recitation? Or ask the surviving family what THEY want?

So...do they now not get a flag-draped casket? Do the survivors not get a flag? Or do they just wad it up and throw it in the back of the hearse?

Kadie, I hope this is just a matter of AP's and your post titles being poorly worded and only means that the recitation custom is kaput.