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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) |
Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 03:54 PM Original message |
I really do believe in the United States more than anything. |
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monmouth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 04:14 PM Response to Original message |
1. Every now and then we lose our faith in our fellow man, but watching |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 04:18 PM Response to Reply #1 |
4. Maybe we lost our way for a few years. |
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book_worm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 04:41 PM Response to Reply #4 |
9. I trust the American people. It's our leaders who I distrust. |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:09 PM Response to Reply #9 |
16. Oh - I don't trust these people - I just know our people - |
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Zywiec (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 04:16 PM Response to Original message |
2. Please pass the butter... |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 04:22 PM Response to Reply #2 |
7. Damn you will need a ton of the stuff |
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LSK (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 04:16 PM Response to Original message |
3. uhh, France and England declared war on Germany in 1939 |
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sicksicksick_N_tired (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 04:21 PM Response to Original message |
5. I believe its people are remarkable. However, the government is out of control in all the worst,... |
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sicksicksick_N_tired (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:25 PM Response to Reply #5 |
22. I must add, it's a multi-cultural and richly diverse people that makes this nation, "great". nt |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 04:22 PM Response to Original message |
6. Funny Sparta, Rome and Persia |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 04:38 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. No they didn't - |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 04:44 PM Response to Reply #8 |
11. We don't go to war unless it beneifts us |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:01 PM Response to Reply #11 |
14. In the days and weeks before Pearl Harbor the peace |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:22 PM Response to Reply #14 |
20. Comparing apples with oranges |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:39 PM Response to Reply #20 |
25. I guess we just don't agree Nadin - |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:42 PM Response to Reply #25 |
26. History is on my side on this one |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:02 PM Response to Reply #26 |
33. Nadin I am not studying History - I am studying war - |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:08 PM Response to Reply #33 |
36. We already did, and already have |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:28 PM Response to Reply #36 |
45. I hope not. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:30 PM Response to Reply #45 |
46. Yes, you understand what war does |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:47 PM Response to Reply #46 |
51. What I understand war does - |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:52 PM Response to Reply #51 |
52. It IS am EMPIRE, just different from OTHER empires across hsitory |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:05 PM Response to Reply #52 |
55. The problem with recognizing a paradigm - is you can't see it |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:11 PM Response to Reply #55 |
58. self delete |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:11 PM Response to Reply #55 |
59. Yes but I am familiar with the history of hte US |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:14 PM Response to Reply #59 |
62. Would you have said the same thing in 1999? |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:15 PM Response to Reply #62 |
63. YES, what part of YES are you missing |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:36 PM Response to Reply #63 |
74. You know today - if you ask a hundred people what they think |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:38 PM Response to Reply #74 |
75. Joe we are NOT exceptional |
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earth mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 10:02 PM Response to Reply #75 |
108. You are absolutely correct. |
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ThomCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:33 PM Original message |
If they know what they're talking about |
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Blashyrkh (816 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:10 PM Response to Reply #52 |
57. Well said, and completely lost on the ignorant. |
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Donnachaidh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 08:22 PM Response to Reply #25 |
86. Nadin is correct -- |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 08:40 PM Response to Reply #86 |
89. flag waving - is that what you think this is?? |
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ThomCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:37 PM Response to Reply #89 |
102. What does that even mean? |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:51 PM Response to Reply #102 |
104. OK - then leave me alone. You don't know what I know |
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ThomCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:55 PM Response to Reply #104 |
105. Platitudes? |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:58 PM Response to Reply #105 |
107. You believe whatever you want. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 11:35 PM Response to Reply #107 |
113. All these posts show you do not understand US Hisstory |
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earth mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 10:09 PM Response to Reply #86 |
109. Yep-The world sees us as Arrogant Americans. Humility-what a concept! nt |
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YankmeCrankme (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 11:52 PM Response to Reply #14 |
118. We didn't declare war on them until they declared war on us. NT |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-26-07 06:04 AM Response to Reply #14 |
123. Your example rather disproves your contention, Joe |
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sicksicksick_N_tired (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:20 PM Response to Reply #11 |
17. I ask one favor of you, friend. Please, please please please do not say "we",... |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:24 PM Response to Reply #17 |
21. I'm using the WE as state actor |
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OwnedByFerrets (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 04:42 PM Response to Reply #6 |
10. I agree with you 100%. I actually had to look |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:20 PM Response to Reply #10 |
18. Oh - God - we did allow it to happen. |
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ThomCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:42 PM Response to Reply #18 |
103. Our government represents us, and we are responsible for what it does |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 04:47 PM Response to Original message |
12. I don't believe we're exceptional |
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Lisa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:00 PM Response to Original message |
13. as a Canadian -- I think you are fine neighbors |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:29 PM Response to Reply #13 |
23. We are the same you know - I don't think of Canada any less |
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Lisa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:51 PM Response to Reply #23 |
28. thank you, Joe |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:56 PM Response to Reply #28 |
31. I hope you learn just how much that bastard is hated here. |
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devilgrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:02 PM Response to Original message |
15. "we are really the only ones to go to war to set other people free" |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:21 PM Response to Reply #15 |
19. You don't know?? |
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devilgrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:34 PM Response to Reply #19 |
24. No. Actually, I don't. |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:49 PM Response to Reply #24 |
27. History didn't start 50 years ago. |
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devilgrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:55 PM Response to Reply #27 |
29. I didn't ask you about concentration camps. I asked you to list who we went to war with to set free. |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:19 PM Response to Reply #29 |
38. Beat around the B*sh - funny. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:23 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. No Joe the camps were NOT the reason we went to war |
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devilgrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:26 PM Response to Reply #40 |
43. How sad that the US hasn't done DICK in the freedom department in my life time. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:27 PM Response to Reply #43 |
44. I'm on your side |
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devilgrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:34 PM Response to Reply #44 |
47. And I, yours. |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 08:42 PM Response to Reply #43 |
90. You dig that I looked to a century ago - that right?? |
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devilgrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-26-07 01:03 PM Response to Reply #90 |
124. When are you going to give an example of going to war to create "freedom"? |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:35 PM Response to Reply #40 |
48. It was just a cold calculation. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:38 PM Response to Reply #48 |
50. Historians don't agree with you |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:54 PM Response to Reply #50 |
53. I have read that figure - it doesn't add up though. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:56 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. Now you are arguing different things |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:09 PM Response to Reply #54 |
56. No - the people Stalin had to kill to stay in power before 1942 - |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:14 PM Response to Reply #56 |
61. Joe you have a way of being selecttive |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:19 PM Response to Reply #61 |
66. You go post and pre war like water - |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:25 PM Response to Reply #66 |
68. I just gave you the nnumbers |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:41 PM Response to Reply #68 |
77. Oh Nadin - he was supposed to go to Afghanistan - |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:44 PM Response to Reply #77 |
78. Here is a term for you to learn |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 08:00 PM Response to Reply #78 |
80. They call it eurocentrisim really. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 08:06 PM Response to Reply #80 |
82. You keep believing that mythology |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 08:18 PM Response to Reply #82 |
84. It might kill us - no doubt - but we are Americans - |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 08:20 PM Response to Reply #84 |
85. No we are not |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 08:34 PM Response to Reply #85 |
88. It is funny Nadin - the first thing you learn in school - |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 11:32 PM Response to Reply #88 |
112. Now you are trying to change the subject |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:25 PM Response to Reply #66 |
69. I just gave you the nnumbers |
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RebelSansCause (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-26-07 12:28 AM Response to Reply #38 |
122. you do realize the ahem "affect" of the Emancipation Proclamation right? |
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Disturbed (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:55 PM Response to Reply #24 |
30. History needs to be studied. |
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devilgrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:03 PM Response to Reply #30 |
34. The OP states that the US goes to war to set people free and I'm asking who and where... |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:31 PM Response to Reply #15 |
99. well...we set the hawaiians free...just like we liberated a lot of native americans... |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-26-07 12:04 AM Response to Reply #99 |
121. and lives, don't forget the lives |
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mr blur (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 05:57 PM Response to Original message |
32. Sorry, but much as you seem to need to fool yourself, |
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Disturbed (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:07 PM Response to Reply #32 |
35. WW2 was about resources & territory as was WW!. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:11 PM Response to Reply #35 |
37. DIng, DING, DING, DING |
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Disturbed (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:21 PM Response to Reply #37 |
39. I don't smoke cigars but thanks. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:24 PM Response to Reply #39 |
42. Facts, shmatz, some folks really don't care for them |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:24 PM Response to Reply #32 |
41. One of us doesn't. |
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burythehatchet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 06:36 PM Response to Original message |
49. Joe, I believe American Exceptionalism is a huge problem. |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:12 PM Response to Reply #49 |
60. Only if we let it take root. I am betting we don't. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:16 PM Response to Reply #60 |
65. We are NOT exceptional |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:23 PM Response to Reply #65 |
67. He is not a product of anything - just a flunky asshole. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:26 PM Response to Reply #67 |
71. He represents the worst of the RIGHT WING IDEOLOGY OF |
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Morereason (496 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 08:58 PM Response to Reply #49 |
93. Nationalism contributes to the causes of war. It is a form of prejudice against others |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:00 PM Response to Reply #93 |
94. It can be. |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:08 PM Response to Reply #93 |
97. No more posts here. OK - I am asking. |
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ileus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:16 PM Response to Original message |
64. So do I Joe....100% proud American |
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Blashyrkh (816 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:26 PM Response to Reply #64 |
70. Wouldn't that piss God off a little? You know, the whole "false idol" thing. |
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ileus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:38 PM Response to Reply #70 |
76. Not really...I don't pray to America. I'm proud to be American |
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Blashyrkh (816 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 08:06 PM Response to Reply #76 |
81. Quote from OP: "I really do believe in the United States more than anything" |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 08:24 PM Response to Reply #81 |
87. Good logic - I respect that. |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 08:14 PM Response to Reply #70 |
83. Funny you say god. |
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Blashyrkh (816 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 08:45 PM Response to Reply #83 |
91. Might be worth re-reading what you're writing. |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 08:52 PM Response to Reply #91 |
92. No - I am saying whatever you do - would you do that to god - |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:26 PM Response to Original message |
72. This is not our finest moment: |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:51 PM Response to Reply #72 |
79. If we choose to do the right thing- it could be one of our best |
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Gregorian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 07:29 PM Response to Original message |
73. Yes, but we have no right to be in the Middle East other than to catch but a few murderers. |
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ThomCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:03 PM Response to Original message |
95. Sorry. That is nationalistic, flag waving B.S. |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:07 PM Response to Reply #95 |
96. Alright - you believe whatever you want. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 11:37 PM Response to Reply #96 |
114. Becuase we had the gall to call you on this nationalistic |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:36 PM Response to Reply #95 |
101. bingo. |
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TwilightZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:20 PM Response to Original message |
98. Excellent post, Joe. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 11:38 PM Response to Reply #98 |
116. What historical revisionism |
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dysfunctional press (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:33 PM Response to Original message |
100. if we go to war to set people free- explain tibet, burma and sudan... |
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Lilith Velkor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 09:56 PM Response to Original message |
106. Tell it to the Indians. |
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fishwax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 10:18 PM Response to Original message |
110. I don't see any evidence for that |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 11:21 PM Response to Reply #110 |
111. Why do you think two things can't be true?? |
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fishwax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 11:38 PM Response to Reply #111 |
115. It's not that I think two things *can't* be true |
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Joe for Clark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 11:39 PM Response to Reply #115 |
117. Opinion - I suppose. |
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Contrary1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 11:57 PM Response to Original message |
119. Amen, Joe |
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NutmegYankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-26-07 12:01 AM Response to Reply #119 |
120. Second that n/t |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-26-07 01:11 PM Response to Original message |
125. Human nature is the same everywhere |
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