Burning lemons make hot lemonade.

[TahitiNut]

Relatives who live in the Sandi Ego area voluntarily evacuated their home in Alpine and took up temporary residence in the business property they own seven blocks from the beach. (The property is partly vacant - between leases - and partly occupied by their own business.)

The home that's only (so far) marginally threatened? It has 6 bedrooms, 3 full baths, and is 4,250 square feet on an 87,000 sq ft lot ... with swimming pool, pool house, hot tub, and 3-car garage (which isn't enough for all their vehicles). Its current market value is about $1.2 million, which is 100% more than its market value 4 years ago and about 300% more than when they bought it ('flipped up') about 8 years ago.

How are they 'suffering' through the hardship? The eldest (a son) is surfing every day. The youngest (another son) is temporarily home-schooling since his high school has suspended classes - between his trips to the beach. And their daughter is toughing it out in Spain, where she's attending college for her sophomore year.

They do NOT regard themselves as "rich" - no way, no how. Just "middle class" they'll humbly say.


Personally, I regard it as just another example of how people NEVER see themselves as well off as others might see them ... in an Amerika where we just don't "bother our beautiful minds" with the hardships of those poor folks who obviously did SOMETHING WRONG and deserve their lot in life. After all, my relatives will be the first to assure me that they "worked hard" for their comforts (including large-screen HDTV in 2 rooms and 3 fully-configured, late-model, high-speed broadband-connected home computers).

[SoCalDem]

1. may I offer you some

[TahitiNut]

2. As a long-time (15 year) California resident ...

... and Californian at heart, I'm more than familiar with the perspectives.

Thanks. :popcorn: Yummy.

[Warpy]

3. Maybe we'll see them in two years

on one of those silly renovation shows on HGTV, living in a pleasure palace they built out of the commercial property next to the business.

My guess is that they were thinking of downsizing, anyway. I know lots and lots of people who are.

[SoCalDem]

4. 28 years for us.. and I know what you mean

:rofl:

[KoKo]

12. There are JERKS everywhere....but in BUSH WORLD...their "Lifestyles"

just reflect the "current" values. Just saying... They will learn what it's like to "clip coupons" and shop in "Resale Stores" and plant veggies to exist....Or, maybe they will be the Lucky who seem to be born with their "Planets" in lucky positions. Their Privileged Kids might end up having to "learn" more than the Parents given the "Luck of the Bushies." But...it will come. Cycles go round and round.

[Javaman]

74. Hey quit bogarting it, pass it over...

:popcorn:

[kineneb]

75. neener, neener...I was born here!

So was Hubby, so was Mom.

[NorthernSpy]

5. oh, yes: "we worked hard for it!" -- always like they're the only people on earth who work...

:eyes:


Sorry. This whole fire episode just reminded me of what utter twats some people were during Katrina. Which made their own recent horror at a couple of posters' declared indifference to the Rancho Bernadoans' plight slightly ironic.

[TahitiNut]

6. I think we lose sight of the ethical stance ...

... that it's not about begrudging anyone needed assistance during a disaster ... but it's about being generous with that assistance when it's MOST needed and not when it's the most "connected." I would love for all the people of New Orleans to receive every bit the assistance that's so visibly apparent for those who're affluent, and NOT just because their corporate insurers are using their back channels to the current regime (federal, state, and local) to ameliorate the losses from insurance reserves.

The differences between the government services allocated to the affluent and the government services allocated to the impoverished are stark and remarkable. If only in the quality of the streets and roadways in the more affluent sections of town, it's CLEAR that even as the taxes become more and more regressive, the rationale of "we pay more" continues to rationalize inequitable investments in infrastructure and fire and police protection.

It's really appalling to me ... especially since we seem to be steadfastly blind to the stark inequities in both the burden (tax the working poor harder than the coupon-clipping wealthy) and the services.

I'm not at all inclined to "bash" the affluent ... except to note that many (even those I love) are so frustratingly BLIND to the stark inequities. (But "we worked hard for it." Yeah. Right.)


When I think of the many, many millions of people who'd give body parts and almost enslave themselves to be so fortunate to have over 4,000 sq ft of living space in a home in California's sunniest climate, it stuns me.

[Gormy Cuss]

11. On coupon clipping: I thought it was a mark of thrift when I heard parents of college classmates

talk about it. Hell, my mother clipped coupons from the newspaper every week. I'd never heard of the other sort of coupons. I was impressed that such wealthy people were penny pinchers.

It's all a matter of perspective. The more insulated one is, the easier it is to have no understanding of how the other half lives.

[TahitiNut]

17. Yep. It's a mark of the changing times that such a term is now interpreted by many ...

... to mean clipping the sale and discount coupons from the daily newpaper or advertising inserts to get a discount on products. The more traditional meaning is in redeeming the interest income from a bond. (They're usually "bearer bonds" which means their owners typically aren't registered. For some, that can mean a tax "advantage.") That comprehension has narrows so greatly that folks don't even know why we have the phrase "zero-coupon bonds" and haven't the foggiest notion of how "they" live. Indeed, those who clip bond coupons probably don't know the other meaning. Such is the gulf ... still.

[KoKo]

22. My knowledge of "Coupon Clipping" comes from Reagan Years and Carter

and Nixon...where the way to beat the "inflation" was to clip the coupons for Grocery Store items. Families feeding hungry brood...had to do alot to keep ahead and that meant going to Grocery store well stocked with 50Cents off and such coupons so that you could save maybe 10 or 20 dollars a week by "shopping smart" and one didn't eat out except when it was a "dress up event" or maybe once every couple months at McDonalds for a happy meal and the great new invention of "BIG MAC and FRIES." Burger King was also big...and Kentucky Fried....but it wasn't like anyone ate breakfast, lunch, dinner at those places... It was a TREAT! If anyone could believe that...:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

23. Here ...

http://www.streetauthority.com/terms/c/coupon-bond.asp

[KoKo]

24. I know what that is....I'm saying what most folks think (or common usage) today

for "coupon clipping." :shrug:

[TahitiNut]

27. I thought that's what *I* said.

:banghead:

[Bucky]

7. The particularly moving part was where you spell America with a K instead of a C

That really convinced me of the validity of your point that, um, when bad things happen the wealthy are better prepared to deal with the situation. Such insight.

[Tektonik]

8. 'Sandi Ego' convinced me yessiree

:eyes:

[ronnykmarshall]

13. Charming, ain't it?

[KamaAina]

30. I was wondering about that myself

on the other hand, "Sandi Ego" would be a primo name for a drag queen, 'specially if s/he was from there! :P

[TahitiNut]

9. Q.E.D.

It's obvious that when one is comfortably enjoying the meager fruits of their "hard work" that such a spelling floursh would be emotionally (or intestinally?) moving.

[JuniperLea]

39. I had the same reaction to Sandi Ego that I had to...

San Beenernegro... I find both disgusting.

[TahitiNut]

44. Really?

You see racism (or the equivalent) in "Sandi Ego"?? Wow! :wow:

[JuniperLea]

47. I spent a year and a half working for the daughter of the...

Fifth wealthiest person in Canada... she is heir to a mega-multi-billion dollar fortune... and the class warfare cut me to the bone. That's why I only lasted a year and a half there;)

I guess I have an equal disdain for racism and classism... regardless of the angle or perspective of the user. Might be a weird thing to some without my perspective, but that's my reaction.

[KoKo]

10. Gaaaah......where are you going with this?

:shrug: You wouldn't want to know what my humble abode is worth since 2005...and folks might start to go after me as not being "poor enough" because I don't live in an apartment eating beans and bread three times a day. And folks might think because we had school loans we paid off but worked and were downsized and thrown out on the street many times...but don't live in a Bus with Grafitti all over it that somehow we "Sold Out." And...since I never "smoked or shot it up" that I'm not part of something or another. :eyes:

Do I need a "vetting" of "proper credentials" to be here on DU? :eyes:

[TahitiNut]

21. There are millions of stories in the Naked City.

This is merely one. :shrug:

[KoKo]

25. AGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!

:eyes:

[Mutineer]

73. From what I understand from the prevailing attitude here at DU

it's absolutely impossible to be a good Democrat and live well. You have to take a vow of poverty, ride a bike to work, better yet if it's second-hand, and oh yes, get your clothes free from the Salvation Army.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. HMM given that most folks evacuated

don't live like that.

Oh never mind, please do help spread the view that we in Cali live high on the hog

[JuniperLea]

40. I try to remind people...

That for every wealthy person in CA, there are probably 500 poor people. And don't forget those who are undocumented and don't show up on the census reports being bandied about.

I'm pretty disgusted right now. I just have this gnawing feeling that a whole lot of very poor people are going to suffer needlessly because of this attitude.

[bobbolink]

51. We poor people HAVE BEEN suffering "needlessly" because of neglect for quite a while now.

Have you noticed the sinking poverty threads lately?

[JuniperLea]

66. Sure have

You could choke on the apathy, even at DU.

[bobbolink]

67. Thank you. It's very painful being on the receiving end of that apathy.

:hi:

[JuniperLea]

71. It's in my face every day, bobbolink...

I wished I'd had a camera when I saw the homeless man napping whilst leaning against the wall outside the new Wolfgang Puck take-away in the neighborhood. Talk about a picture saying a thousand words. The gap between the haves and the have nots is widening exponentially, and no one seems to care.

[bobbolink]

84. You're singing my song.

How'd you come to have a heart?

Really, I agree with what you said in another post... I feel like I slipped into an alternate reality.

THIS is liberalism? I keep finding myself saying.

How we have fallen since the days of fighting on so many fronts... Vietnam, racism, poverty, and the rest of the civil rights.... We even used to be not only civil to each other, but to actually love each other. What a disgusting thought, eh?

:pals:

[kineneb]

77. sure is.

Hi bobbolink.

Hubby is off to the hospital again on Tue. Right lung filled with fluid. Sigh.

[bobbolink]

85. I'm so sorry!

Please give him a hug for me... a non-painful hug.

That must be really scary!

:hug:

[Lurking Dem]

16. Did they SAY they were suffering unduly?

Are they asking for federal aid? Begging for handouts?

I feel like you must have left something out of this story, otherwise it makes no sense.

[TahitiNut]

18. Uhhh... yes. They've kept a "stiff upper lip" and portray themselves as "bearing up."

They've also made comments about their trips to the distribution centers for food and water. I find that sorta fascinating, considering what I know over the years about how certain items were booked as "business expenses" and never reported as personal income/compensation. Holiday Bowl tickets, one vehicle, gas for all their vehicles, (at least) two of the three computers, etc. (Quite a lot of things, actually.) These are certain 'perks' that a small business owner has ... that're (cough) not exactly "legal" ... but that's a technicality, right?

I love them dearly ... but I'm under no illusion, either. After all, it's just a "different point of view" right?

[Lurking Dem]

54. So...ONE story

and you happen to be related to them. You must be so proud! ;)

Seriously, I have friends in San Diego who, while not as well off as your relations there, are fairly well to do. They have spent their time volunteering at evac centers.

Again, just one story out of so many thousands.

[TahitiNut]

57. That's right: One story. Every one unique and none paintable with a broad brush.

The "warring broad brushes"? Both wrong. And both right. And no matter what, it's still a bunch of "one story" situations.

If there's a "lesson" in any of it, it's that we seem to find it easier to have sympathy for the dramatic losses that play well on TV ... but not so much for the grinding burden of long-term poverty. It's easier to have sympathy for what we're spoon-fed by the media than by what we drive past on the street. It's easier to identify with the trials and tribulations of "one of us" than of "one of them."

And ... one key point ... let's NEVER lose sight of the fact that a newer suburban home that's on the edge of a "forever wild" area commands a premium over the home buried inside an urban neighborhood. When it comes to wildfires, there's a kind of economic "natural selection" (in reverse?) taking place. I'm sure that it's shocking to those folks - and I do sympathize.

I was burned out of my home (a condo) for 6 months by a fire in 1991 - right before the Berkeley Hills fire. (I've always been "leading edge.") I KNOW what that felt like. I wish it upon nobody.

[Lurking Dem]

64. Is it a "sexiness" issue?

I mean, for the presentation of the story.

Long term poverty isn't "grabbing" like a swift and sure disaster.

My aunt lost her home of 40 years in the Berkeley fire. All those memories, her amazing garden, photos of her dead husband gone.

But what we all talked about, and what she held on to, was the fact that her gay ex neighbors (they had moved into San Fran to open a restaurant) from across the street saw her street on fire on tv, couldn't reach her, and drove back in across the fire line to rescue this 75 year old woman from the flames.

Each is, as you say, its own story. But so is abject poverty. The media does, on occasion, find a human interest story in mundane deprivation. But all too often it is passed by for the "bigger" story.

That is a human fallibility and I do not see how to change that. I'm open to suggestions. But I'm also a cynical ol' bitch.

[TahitiNut]

65. In my opinion, it's a "wolf at the door" issue.

The perpetual myth of corporate Amerika, designed to keep workers compliant and "hard-working," is that poverty is somehow the fault of the impoverished. "They wouldn't be if they worked harder." "They wouldn't be if they got along with others." In this fashion, the 'mainstream' workforce is perpetually sold on the idea that the difference between "getting rich" and being impoverished is based solely on their decision to go along to get along and be a team player - something that's virtually all under their own control. The exception is an "act of God" that destroys their home or injures them or makes them ill. Enter the insurance companies who will sell "peace of mind" - to workers only.

We must NOT offer a Social Insurance (or "welfare"), not-for-profit through government, that provides a multi-tiered "safety net" that's more than an 1/8" off rock bottom. That'd be "socialism." That's EVIL! But as long as it's only offered to healthy worker-bees who promise future years of effort in the enrichment of the owners, it's not "socialism" - since the beneficiaries are the already-affluent. It must be noted that as long as only the worker-bees that are still young enough and healthy enough to work the cotton fields and pay back the cost of keeping them so are the beneficiaries ... and as long as they pay enough for that to further enrich the affluent ... then it's NOT "socialism." If everyone was included, then the essential criteria of "exclusive" wouldn't be met and it'd be that evil thing called "socialism."

OK ... so we see people "UNFAIRLY" made homeless by an Act of God. The owners can't allow the worker-bees to think that something other than sloth and dissent would cause them to be immediately impoverished ... so the "system" invests in the myth. And the "Protestant Work Ethic" is sustained.

As I get older (and hopefully wiser), I have a tough time making an ethical distinction between some Act of God that makes me homeless and bereft ... and some political machination that crushes a housing market, makes me jobless ("black-balled"), and causes me to surrender a home for mortgage default and losing over $100,000 in equity. Why is one ("God's Will") something we protect and the other ("Man's follies") something we turn our back on? The impact on the person/family is the same. Why isn't our "system" designed to offer some downside limits and upside supports?

In a sense, it's the Tonya Harding approach to keeping the bear from eating us. All we have to do is bash some people on the knee ... and THEY'LL be the slowest running from the bear. That's the "service" we extract from the long-term impoverished - they're the ones we throw to the bears. As long as we're all running - and not standing together ("socialism") to keep EVERYONE safe from the bears, we'll continue to let some folks be eaten. But we must be careful in selecting them - they can't be ones that make the worker-bees doubt the convenient myth: "Protestant Work Ethic."

I say this as a True Believer for many, many years - working in the belly of the beast. Been there. Done that.

The fact of the matter is that our own efforts (and "wisdom") has VERY little to do with whether we become affluent or whether we become destitute. By far, the largest difference is the sperm lottery - how much wealth and privilege do we "inherit" from our parents? (We delude ourselves that such handicaps of birth can be overcome - and then 'prove it' with exceptions that actually prove the contrary.)

But our employers cannot benefit from workers who know that. After all, the threat must be ever-present.


Postscript: I deliberately chose the "wolf at the door" metaphor. Only those with doors need be reassured. See what I mean?

[Lurking Dem]

69. Food for thought.

No pun intended.

Thank you.

[KoKo]

81. More good points although I'd add

that it's not just "accidents of birth" ....it's "Luck and Connections," that are factors too. Some born poor do manage to have incredible "luck...and make the right connections." Clarence Thomas and many in the Bush Crime Family come to mind...

But, I understand what you are getting at here. You can take that crow off the grill, now. Just drop it beside me where I'm sitting on my chair. :D :hi:

[annabanana]

19. How's that popcorn holding up, dear?. . . . n/t

[TahitiNut]

20. Got some cow on the grill ... will return to the popcorn after it's done.

:evilgrin:

[KoKo]

26. Some "crow on the grill" might be more appropriate.

:hug: What were you thinking?

[NorthernSpy]

28. crow? what for, exactly?

:shrug:

[KoKo]

31. as you say...it was your spelling....n/t

[NorthernSpy]

68. huh?

My spelling? What are talking about?

Wait -- you do know that I'm not the OP, don't you?

[TahitiNut]

29. Hardly.

There's nothing in my post that's not truthful ... even if folks take exception to my spelling.

:shrug:

[KoKo]

32. Hey...we are all stressed and on edge these days and apt to read things

not the way they were meant to be read. There's been so much flaming on DU about folks thinking only the RICH in CA were affected by the fires because that's what the MSM is reporting most about...that what you posted maybe got taken the wrong way by some of us who are seeing CA being compared to NO's when they are so different. It got off into Class Warfare flame wars... so some of us are overly sensitive.

I just didn't get where you were coming from...and got into it with you...

Peace!

[TahitiNut]

33. I understand.

Occasionally, I'll make a "Rorschach" post. It's not "trolling" and it's not malicious. It's got a point (see below) but I'll intentionally compose it in a way that allows differing interpretations ..."eye of the beholder" and all that.

The "point": Altogether too often DU gets into high dudgeon and we see the wars of the broad brushes and straw men in battle squares on the fields of Waterlieu. I know one family in the San Diego area VERY well ... and know both how they live and how they "got there." While they claim "hard work" they NEVER make reference to the tens of thousands of dollars their parents "loaned" them to buy the business and help get them a leg up in buying their first home. They NEVER make reference to the 6-figure "college funds" for their kids set up by their parents. And they almost NEVER admit (except to "trusted" family members) to the many ways in which they've scammed the IRS by having the business incur an expense (reducing taxable profits) for their personal use (never declared as income). An SUV isn't trivial. (Several over the years.) One of the large screen HDTV's isn't trivial. (Several such TV's over the years.) Two computers isn't trivial. (Several over the years.) Season tickets used almost solely for personal socialization aren't trivial. For decades.

When I read many of the threads about how even a "hovel" costs a million, I choked. Yes, I know very well how small houses in Palo Alto can be valued at one or two million ... but I also know how the same house is one-tenth as much only 2 miles away (in East Palo Alto). Yes, I know about real estate in California - I had some. At the same time, I also knew about my relatives' home in the outskirts of San Diego and how $1.2 million was ACTUALLY what many would regard as pretty high on the hog no matter where they live in this country.

The FACT of the matter is that broad brushes are wrong no matter what color is being painted. These people are my own family - people I love - people who've take every advantage, even of handouts at the evacuee/distribution centers during this wildfire disaster.


But it's not even about them. It's about how we use them as straw men and IGNORE the fact that, while we're pouring out our sympathy of those who've recently lost their homes to a recent tragedy, we don't even come close to treating the longer-term homeless with anything approaching the same sympathy - and media attention.

How is it MORE tragic for relatively affluent people to suddenly discover they're homeless than for people battered by a sequence of tragedies to be homeless for years? I find the "judgmental calculus" of our societal sympathies to be very wanting in ethical equity.

No ... the "rich" don't "deserve" to have their homes to be burnt down. But - JESUS! - where's the "FEMA" for the long-term homeless?? Where's the "national disaster area" for these people?

I suspect - quite strongly - that the imbalance in 'sympathy' has a LOT to do with whether it's "one of us" or "one of them." Strangely enough, the reactions here bear that out. (you might note that I chose my subject as "one of ___" as both family and as a Californian (in spirit) myself. Rorschach.)

I can only imagine the sense of betrayal and abandonment that our homeless DUers feel as the sympathy is poured out (somewhat inequitably) for people who've yet to sleep in the street - if they ever will.

Sometimes I'm made even more ashamed of our nation's priorities ... and this is one of those times that, when we demonstrate what WE CAN DO - what we HAVEN'T done is cast into stark contrast.



Oh... and FWIW... ever since Pete Wilson was Mayor and Duncan Hunter was the congresscritter, I've called it "Sandi Ego" ... it's one of the THREE intensely neoconservative right-wing areas in California. I also refer to anything within 100 miles of the ocean and south of San Luis Obispo as "Lala-land." (That's because I think of myself - despite living for two years in Glendale - as a Northern Californian, Bay Area subculture.) Furthermore, the country that doesn't "worry it's beautiful mind" IS (imho) called "Amerika" and anyone that doesn't like that label can go (take Cheney's advice). The country called "America" is but a memory and (possibly) an aspiration of some - sadly, it's not the reality today.

[KoKo]

48. Good points you make about "strawmen" and how every new disaster

covers up the plight of those who live with everyday disaster of poverty and lack of health care and decent education.. The Media who has been on the side of the Wealthy for well over a decade is suddenly catching a "whiff" of populism and they turn it into "class war" with reports that are slanted to get folks angry. Their choice of photos and commentary...their editing that causes controversy.

We are so manipulated that to cut through it becomes exhausting... And, sometimes when we are tired and down...we (who should know better) just get into it from the same "class warfare" point of view.

The hype about everthing keeps folks so on edge it's hard not to get caught up in it. I think those DU'ers who ripped their cable out might have better lives...but then sometimes I see posts from them that show even they...just getting news from the internet...can often be as swept up in the cross-current spin as the rest of us.

BTW: I know some people like the people you are talking about. The same circumstances ...how hard they worked..with the trust funds and bragging about how they stiffed the IRS to people who paid the IRS and didn't try to find a scheme to get out of it. The ones who won't vote for public school bond funding because they send their kids to private school and figure they shouldn't give money to lousy public education because they think it's lousy. Their kids take trips and have every indulgence but they deny the right for others to to have some public funding for school lunches or class trips to just a local museum. They say it's welfare while they fly off to Paris with the kids or the annual Disney trip where they stay "inside the resort" but complain about the crowds of people (not like them) who make the lines too long. I hope to have compassion for those people when their house burns down even if they get to rebuild sooner by finding some loophole or advantage to do so. But, the suffering of those who live in mobile homes who are constantly victims of floods or tornadoes/hurricanes because their land is low or vulnerable in location deserve their share of sympathy and equal help. Those in New Orleans shouldn't be made scapegoat for the blunders of their State Government compared to California's when the circumstances are so different. We are all going to be vulnerable in the coming years of climate change and we have to find ways to help those who don't have the ability to help themselves. How do we do that, is the question we should be asking. :shrug:

[bobbolink]

52. "we don't even come close to treating the longer-term homeless with anything approaching the same

sympathy - and media attention."

Thank you, very, very much!

And, I hear all the pleading to understand how "stressed out" people are, and why they are liable to leap to conclusions, etc.

I would just ask those people to just for ONE DAY, walk in my shoes, and see what it means to be *really* "stressed out"!

Maybe all these people think living without a home is some sort of vacation?

A walk in the park?

The segregation of rich and poor has created so much ignorance, that it has become unbridgeable.

[TimBean]

34. Can someone please explain what is wrong with having a lot of money?

[TahitiNut]

35. Is it? How is that relevant?

:eyes:

[TimBean]

36. Seems like your relatives are bad people because they aren't suffering

and have lots of property

[TahitiNut]

37. Really?

Strange you should say that about people I love. :evilgrin:

[TimBean]

41. you implied it not me

[TahitiNut]

43. Well, technically speaking, you couldn't "imply" it. For you, it'd be an "inference."

So, to that extent, you're correct that you didn't. But that's the limit to which you're correct. (IMHO, of course.)

Hint: Read the whole thread.

[TimBean]

46. I don't get your point

are you being sarcastic? did I use the wrong word?

[JuniperLea]

38. How many truly poor people...

Are there in CA for every one who has a spread like that?

How many undocumented people are living in San Diego County, who are dirt poor and don't show up on any census report?

I'm sorry... I'm just really hating all this crap right now. I have nine family members from two households in a very non-affluent area near Lake Arrowhead who are in desperate need of assistance. Not only are they being kept from their homes (they don't know for sure those homes are still standing) but their places of employment have been destroyed. It's paycheck to paycheck for them under the best of circumstances sans fire and mayhem. They happen to be white, so there are a lot of people assuming they have the means to care for themselves. People are saying the most heinous things about them, and TO them. I'm pretty damn disgusted.

I'm sick of the news, I'm sick of DU, I'm sick of these fucking fires, and I'm sick of hearing how everyone is the same and none of these people needs any help.

[TahitiNut]

42. Well, I haven't YET seen the media go onto the reservations.

I gotta wonder about that. Rancho San Bernardo isn't live-in-a-cardboard-box area. The rez can be really depressing ... or not, depending. The cameras don't seem to show many trailers or converted chicken coops. There ARE some impoverished areas where the fires are burning ... but the suburban affluent are especially visible with their 'prime' lots cozied up to the government lands. (That's primo, ya know.)

I sorta wonder if the 'drama' is focused where the insurance companies are most 'worried.'

[JuniperLea]

45. I'm sure there's a lot of psychology to it

Along with the... hmmm... practical?

[bobbolink]

58. You certainly focus right in on the target. ^_^

I saw the same thing during Cerro Grande... the Santa Clara Pueblo didn't get *near* the media attention as rich Los Alamos.

And, yes, there were people in Los Alamos who lost homes who were barely making it.

There were also RICH people who lost homes.

Many of them have been replaced now by MANSIONS.

My thoughts are with the people on the rez.

Thank you for thinking of them, and bringing them to our attention!

[bobbolink]

53. I'm *very* poor and homeless, and I APPRECIATE this OP!

What is being pointed out is *VERY* important.

Those people have so many things being offered to them, yet some of us who are literally on the edge of ceasing to exist can't get any of those basics.

Walk in my shoes for a while, and you may understand why I very much appreciate this OP!

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kineneb]

78. so sorry to hear that

I wish I had the means to do something. Unfortunately, all I can send are positive vibes their way. Need any USDA mashed potato flakes, canned corn, or canned green beans? Have extra.

from another poor Californian (under $15K/yr)

[bobbolink]

49. I'm sure they're losing sleep over the people who are dying of poverty not far from them.

I'm sure that compassion is part of their "lifestyle".

Thanks for pointing out some of the conflict with all the "tragedy" talk.

[TahitiNut]

55. I was actually thinking of you reading over my shoulder as I posted here, luv.

Let me repeat, though. They're not "bad" people ... and I do love them. She's very active in the public school system and is doing educational program development and support for the native people's on the rez.

In a way, however, her activities have the smell of inoculations ... a form of compensation, if only with the superficiality of a "busy work" empty-nest focus. Only cousins, we were once very close - almost brother-sister 30-35 years ago after her brother was killed. Without my knowing quite why, she gradually drifted away ... into a "class" lifestyle of two ski vacations each year at top resorts (with their 3 kids), various other trips and cruises, and a social "set" that had a fairly surreal (to me) set of interests.

For many years, they were the almost typical "moderate Republicans." They supported Reagan. With the advent of Junior, they're now "liberals." Sorta. I have a very strong feeling that these attitudes track to their "social circle."

Rarely have I EVER seen people so self-indulgent. Especially in the last 10-15 years. Always the latest and greatest toys. Always the best stereo - and LOTS of CDs. iPod? First one's sold. Cell-phones? all five of them ... for many years. (A "business expense" of course. No - they DON"T all work at the business. Just the dad.) Always keeping up with the Joneses. If I'd speak about a health problem - they'd had it. If I spoke about some place I'd visited - they'd either seen it or knew somebody that did. There wasn't a topic of conversation where they didn't have better, knew more, or had overcome worse. They became the Bill Frists of any topic ... abel to offer an "expert" diagnosis after less than 5 minutes of conversation - usually over the telephone. On top of it all was how "busy" and "hard-working" they were ... and how "full" their lives
were with "important" stuff.

In their 50s now, I tend to wonder when they'll grow up. Or down. I love them and look forward to it.

They're not "bad" people. (Spoiled is more like it, I guess.) :shrug: Like most of us.

[bobbolink]

56. Thinking of "good" and "bad", black hats and white hats, etc. etc.

You have struck eXACTLY the message I have tried to get across here..... we are, in the final analysis, ALL PEOPLE, with our strengths and weaknesses, our kind side and our evil side.. ALL OF US! No, of course, they aren't "bad people"... we all have our blind sides.

On the other hand, when they vote for people who cut off my lifelines, don't expect me to like them! :)

As I've often said, a priest many years ago during a sermon said that a parishoner has asked him what he considered to be pornography. He replied, "My idea of pornography is the whole concept of "US" and THEM" ."

In all the shit I've been through, I've had liberals be very crappy to me and conservative people have an unbelievable amount of compassion, and vice versa.

We are ALL in this whole mess together.... it's just that the segregation of rich and poor leads to the kind of self-absorption you see in your loved kin.

And, I will hasten to add, there are poor people who ALSO don't give a thought for others!

No white hats.

No black hats.

Just folk.

ps... thanks for having me in mind. I'll sit on your shoulder any day. :) :) :)

[LittleClarkie]

50. My sister used to live in San Diego. Note the spelling, San Diego

She was not rich. Trust me. Barely hanging on most days.

And that's where I'll stop before I say something to get myself deleted.

[Swamp Rat]

59. Thanks for this thought-provoking thread.

:thumbsup:

[TahitiNut]

60. Color me unsurprised that you "get it," Swampy.

(It sure isn't attributable to my erudition.) Thank you for being you. :pals: You are obviously informed by your life experience. Kudos. My respect for your humanity - and willingness to see the Yin and Yang in such things - continues to grow.

:yourock:

[Swamp Rat]

61. Likewise

I'm feeling a little too Yangy today. :D Thanks a lot for the Yin. :pals:

[Bozita]

62. Swampy's right. Helluva thread.

My thanks to TahitiNut for beginning the discourse and for occasionally stirring the pot.

[TahitiNut]

63. Thanks, luv! After all, the phenomenon of "spontaneous combustion" ...

... is interesting to observe, I think. :evilgrin:


(Gawd! I really do love puns wrapped in double entendres!! I must be a nut.)

:rofl:

[joshcryer]

70. So what would you say if their house burned down?

Just curious.

[TahitiNut]

72. I don't know that it'd matter, but I'd probably spell it wrong.

:shrug:

Interesting question. :eyes:

[slackmaster]

76. This has to be the most retarded Cali-bashing thread in GD

Or maybe I haven't looked hard enough.

[TahitiNut]

79. "maybe"? Yep. I'd say surely.

Read on, MacDuff. :dunce:

Hint: Post #33 might help. Once 'on track,' #65 extends into allied themes.

[NorthernSpy]

80. #33&#65: beautiful

:hug:

[SlowDownFast]

82. Look harder. n/t

[NMMNG]

86. *Another* "Who cares about those rich MFers in CA" thread?

Who has the popcorn?