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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 06:33 PM
Original message
Turkey: U.S. Won't Stop Iraq Invasion
Turkey rejected US calls of restraint. They declined the US offer to take on the bombing campaign. Turkey says the US owes them support in this incursion due to Turkey's support during the Afghanistan invasion.


"Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Thursday that U.S. objections would not stop Turkey from crossing into Iraq to eliminate Kurdish rebels. The Turkish military said it had killed more than 30 insurgents who were poised to launch an attack on the border.

"President Abdullah Gul said Turkey is running out of patience with the Kurdish separatist attacks. A steady stream of U.S.-made Turkish fighter jets roared into the skies near the Iraqi border, loaded with bombs.

The Turkish military said it had spotted a "group of terrorists" near a military outpost in the province of Semdinli close to the border with Iraq on Tuesday and fired on them with tanks, artillery and other heavy weaponry. It said the group had been preparing for an attack.

"In a statement posted on its Web site, the military said the troops kept firing on the group as they escaped toward the Iraqi territory. The report increased the official number of alleged rebels killed since Sunday to at least 64.

"The Bush administration is urging Turkey not to launch an incursion that would destabilize Iraq's autonomous Kurdish north, the country's most stable region. But Erdogan said the U.S. desire to protect the north would not hinder Turkey's fight against the rebels from the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, who use mountain bases to rest, train and get supplies in relative safety before returning to Turkey to carry out attacks against government forces in the heavily Kurdish southeast.

"They (the Bush administration) might wish that we do not carry out a cross-border offensive, but we make the decision on what we have to do," Erdogan said during a visit to Romania. "We have taken necessary steps in this struggle so far, and now we are forced to take this step and we will take it."

more at link: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/25/iraq/main3408593.shtml?source=mostpop_story
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Mike Nelson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Still reeling from Bush's plastic Turkey
Still reeling from Bush's plastic Turkey
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. I would K&R, if I had enough posts.
It's surprising how many people both here and in the MSM are paying so little attention to this. This has a far greater likelihood of turning very sour than the Iranian situation does.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. This seems to me to be the spread into a Regional War
that should be feared and avoided at all costs.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Did it for you
those of us who predictd this were called loons
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes, we were.
:eyes:



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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Proud member of the LOONIES here
:hi:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2124475



I think we should be aware - cause it sure seems to be MIA on
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2355978



Turkey bombs suspected Kurdish rebels

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3023126#3023126
3023126, Turkey bombs suspected Kurdish rebels
Posted by shain from kane on Wed Oct-10-07 01:27 PM

Source: Associated Press


By SELCAN HACAOGLU
Associated Press Writer


SIRNAK, Turkey --Turkish warplanes bombed positions of suspected Kurdish rebels Wednesday, and the prime minister said preparations for parliamentary approval of a military mission against separatist fighters in Iraq were under way.

A cross-border operation could hurt Turkey's relationship with the United States, which opposes Turkish intervention in northern Iraq, a region that has escaped the violence afflicting much of the rest of the country.
-----------------------------
Turkey and the United States are NATO allies, but ties have also been tense over a U.S. congressional bill that would label the mass killings of Armenians by Turks around the time of World War I as genocide. President Bush strongly urged Congress to reject the bill, saying it would do "great harm" to U.S.-Turkish relations.
---------------------------------------
Turkish troops blocked rebel escape routes into Iraq while F-16 and F-14 warplanes and Cobra helicopters dropped bombs on possible hideouts, Dogan news agency reported. The military had dispatched tanks to the region to support the operation against the rebel Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, in response to more than a week of deadly attacks in southeastern Turkey.



Read more: http://www.bnd.com/283/story/149436.html





Sibel Edmonds and other Whistleblowers Group
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=344





Turkish PM clears way for Iraq assault
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2010021&mesg_id=2010021


Ruffling feathers - will Turkey invade northern Iraq?
Posted by seemslikeadream on Tue Oct-09-07 08:52 PM


Ruffling feathers - will Turkey invade northern Iraq?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1608046

Turkey sent 350 special ops forces south into Kurdistan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1544571

This is so pissing me off -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1547409

Turkish Commandos Inside Iraq?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1529843

Novak: Bush considering secret military action in Turkey
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1474571
This is my fourth and last time
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1429288

It is really a little too quiet up north right now -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1472171

Please- watch the north in Iraq - this is going to blow shortly.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1429138

Turkish PM threatens to invade northern Iraq - 250,000 men in the region
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1393490

Turkish security services in possession of videotapes of weapon deliveries by US military to PKK
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1327965






http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/viewtopic.php?t=12870

Ruffling feathers - Will Turkey invade northern Iraq?
Key Points
Turkey's government is under pressure to attack rebel Kurdish bases in Iraq after the ruling party's election victory.

The Turkish military wants to launch an invasion to disrupt the Workers' Party of Kurdistan (Partiya Karkaren Kurdistan: PKK) before it can take advantage of growing disaffection within Turkey's Kurdish population.

The government will have to balance the military's ambitions against its relationship with the US, which will not want northern Iraq's stability harmed by a Turkish invasion.


The Turkish military is preparing for a potential offensive against Kurdish rebel bases in Iraq. Graeme Wood examines the country's options.

Turkey is once again undergoing preparations for a possible invasion of northern Iraq to disrupt the activities of the Workers' Party of Kurdistan (Partiya Karkaren Kurdistan: PKK). On 7 August, Iraqi and Turkish Prime Ministers Nouri al-Maliki and Recep Tayyip Erdogan signed a Memorandum of Understanding to jointly work towards ending the PKK presence in Iraq. The decision followed Turkey's July general election, won by the ruling Justice and Development Party (Adalet ve Kalkinma Partisi: AKP), which saw the opposition parties, the Republican People's Party and the National Action Party, running on nationalist platforms.

Such a cross-border operation against the PKK would not be unprecendented. Turkish soldiers have been fighting the PKK in Iraqi Kurdish regions since the mid-1990s, usually just across the border from Turkey. Every few years the fight against the guerrilla movement reaches a minor crescendo, with the Turkish military weighing the option of swooping into the Kandil mountains to completely destroy the PKK's camps. Four significant incursions were launched in the 1990s and 2001.

So far, Turkish deployments inside Iraq have been modest. Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) Prime Minister Nechirvan Barzani (nephew of KRG President Massoud Barzani) confirmed in early August that Turkish troops had already begun operating in Iraqi territory. However, their main activity has consisted of preparatory work on the Turkish side of the border, in particular the establishment of 'temporary security zones' in the border provinces of Hakkari, Siirt, and Sirnak. These zones involve tighter controls on civilian movement and could be a prelude to cross-border action.

As these zones and the election demonstrate, attacking the PKK camps is once again being considered seriously in Ankara. Perhaps the most significant reason for this is that the PKK's insurgency has shown surprising resilience by sustaining itself since ending its unilateral ceasefire in May 2004, and there are signs it has taken lethal new tactical turns. In addition, given the PKK's strategic reliance on static camps, the military is confident that it could deal a substantial blow to the organisation in a cross-border operation.

Domestic factors also provide a favourable climate for an invasion in 2007, particularly the ruling AKP's desire to demonstrate its Kemalist credentials. The party narrowly failed to win the two thirds of parliamentary seats necessary to act unilaterally in appointing a president, and so it needs to pander to nationalists such as the National Action Party. Also, a stand-off between the military and the government in May, when the armed forces all but threatened a coup if the AKP's preferred presidential candidate was appointed, demonstrated that the AKP must also take into account the military's wishes in its appointments and policies. An invasion to tackle the PKK is supported within the military and could be seen as a concession to the armed forces from the AKP.

There are, however, obstacles to an invasion. The reaction of Iraqi Kurds, the Iraqi government and the US may mitigate against a cross-border operation, although an agreement could be reached with all parties for limited military operations. Furthermore, Turkish Kurds, who gained the greatest parliamentary representation ever in the July elections by running as independents, could act as a restraint on the government if it requires Kurdish support in parliament.

Given these competing factors, the probability of a Turkish invasion of Iraq is not yet assured. Nonetheless, the Turkish military has pressed forward at the Iraqi border and sent in mine clearance and special forces teams. In August, in the run-up to the Maliki-Erdogan meeting, Iraqi Kurdish media reported intense Turkish shelling and a 1 km incursion into the KRG area in Iraq's Zakho district. These events and the discourse in Ankara suggest that the likelihood of an invasion is at its greatest since 2001. Even if it does not take place in 2007, it is likely to occur in 2008 or 2009.


lots more.........


RE: The US/Turkey/Kurdistan issue. Seymour Hersh from 2004: Plan B....
Posted by seemslikeadream on Thu Oct-25-07 08:26 AM

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2024996

....

In a series of interviews in Europe, the Middle East, and the United States, officials told me that by the end of last year Israel had concluded that the Bush Administration would not be able to bring stability or democracy to Iraq, and that Israel needed other options. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s government decided, I was told, to minimize the damage that the war was causing to Israel’s strategic position by expanding its long-standing relationship with Iraq’s Kurds and establishing a significant presence on the ground in the semi-autonomous region of Kurdistan. Several officials depicted Sharon’s decision, which involves a heavy financial commitment, as a potentially reckless move that could create even more chaos and violence as the insurgency in Iraq continues to grow.

Israeli intelligence and military operatives are now quietly at work in Kurdistan, providing training for Kurdish commando units and, most important in Israel’s view, running covert operations inside Kurdish areas of Iran and Syria. Israel feels particularly threatened by Iran, whose position in the region has been strengthened by the war. The Israeli operatives include members of the Mossad, Israel’s clandestine foreign-intelligence service, who work undercover in Kurdistan as businessmen and, in some cases, do not carry Israeli passports.

....

The Israeli decision to seek a bigger foothold in Kurdistan—characterized by the former Israeli intelligence officer as “Plan B”—has also raised tensions between Israel and Turkey. It has provoked bitter statements from Turkish politicians and, in a major regional shift, a new alliance among Iran, Syria, and Turkey, all of which have significant Kurdish minorities. In early June, Intel Brief, a privately circulated intelligence newsletter produced by Vincent Cannistraro, a retired C.I.A. counterterrorism chief, and Philip Giraldi, who served as the C.I.A.’s deputy chief of base in Istanbul in the late nineteen-eighties, said:

Turkish sources confidentially report that the Turks are increasingly concerned by the expanding Israeli presence in Kurdistan and alleged encouragement of Kurdish ambitions to create an independent state. . . . The Turks note that the large Israeli intelligence operations in Northern Iraq incorporate anti-Syrian and anti-Iranian activity, including support to Iranian and Syrian Kurds who are in opposition to their respective governments.


hadn't realized Blackwater has been accused of selling weapons to the PKK
Posted by seemslikeadream on Thu Oct-25-07 08:36 AM



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2045005

Feds probe whether Blackwater smuggled weapons into Iraq

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federal prosecutors are investigating whether employees of the private security firm Blackwater USA illegally smuggled weapons into Iraq that may have been sold on the black market and ended up in the hands of a U.S.-designated terrorist organization, officials said Friday.

The U.S. Attorney's Office in Raleigh, North Carolina, is handling the investigation with help from Pentagon and State Department auditors, who have concluded there is enough evidence to file charges, the officials told The Associated Press. snip

According to officials in Washington, the investigation grew from internal Pentagon and State Department inquiries into U.S. weapons that had gone missing in Iraq.

It gained steam after Turkish authorities protested to the U.S. in July that they had seized American arms from the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party, or PKK, rebels.

The Turks provided serial numbers of the weapons to U.S. investigators, said a Turkish official.

The Pentagon said in late July it was looking into the Turkish complaints and a U.S. official said FBI agents had traveled to Turkey in recent months to look into cases of missing U.S. weapons in Iraq.

Investigators are determining whether the alleged Blackwater weapons match those taken from the PKK.

It was not clear if Blackwater employees suspected of selling to the black market knew the weapons they allegedly sold to middlemen might wind up with the PKK. If they did, possible charges against them could be more serious than theft or illegal weapons sales, officials said.

The PKK, which is fighting for an independent Kurdistan, is banned in Turkey, which has a restive Kurdish population and is considered a "foreign terrorist organization" by the State Department. That designation bars U.S. citizens or those in U.S. jurisdictions from supporting the group in any way.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Tesekkür ederim.... YOU LOON!
:D


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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. And the loons get it right again!
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. The Busholini Regime would like to get rid of the PKK.
The PKK are fighting for an Independent Kurdish state based on Socialism, which would Nationalize the Oil in that State. Of course, the US Oil Corps don't want that.
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. The PKK is also fighting for an independent Kurdish state based on
territories that Turkey currently holds. That would be the bigger problem.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-25-07 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. our credibility is shot, Turkey has already said well the US invaded
Iraq, or something to that affect. So there Turkey is saying to us, and Turkey is our ally????? our word means shit now no thanks to *.
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