Racial ‘Cleansing’ in L.A.

[SparkyMac]

Federal prosecutors say a powerful Latino gang systematically targeted rival black gang members and innocent black civilians in a reign of terror.

A south Los Angeles Latino street gang targeted African-American gang rivals and other blacks in a campaign of neighborhood "cleansing," federal prosecutors say. Alleged leaders and foot soldiers in the Hispanic gang Florencia 13, also called F13, are being arraigned this week on charges stemming from a pair of federal indictments that allege that the gang kept a tight grip on its turf by shooting members of a rival gang—and sometimes random black civilians. The "most disturbing aspect" of the federal charges was that "innocent citizens … ended up being shot simply because of the color of their skin," U.S. Attorney Thomas O'Brien told reporters in announcing the indictments.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/61950

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[malaise]

2. Great post

The silence is deafening. Perhaps the illegals are doing the job for others who think the same way.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

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[NorthernSpy]

18. the point is that an organized, armed group are attempting ethnic cleansing

... of American citizens on American soil.


And yet the majority of your outrage on the subject is directed toward a guy you suspect of harboring rejectionist sentiments toward illegal aliens.



Hey -- guess we all draw the line somewhere.

[EFerrari]

19. Please show where in that article the issue of citizenship is raised.

I read it and missed that. Thanks.

[NorthernSpy]

22. from another article:

The gang today continues to grow. It is one of the three largest gangs in Los Angeles. Like the other two super Hispanic gangs - 18th street & Mara Salvatrucha - Florencia 13 is now primarily made up of undocumented (illegal) immigrants. They continue to finance themselves primarily through narcotics trafficking. False document and identification mills are also a large source of income for all three of the super gangs.

http://www.policemag.com/Channels/Gangs/2007/09/12/History-of-the-Florence-13-Gang.aspx


:shrug:


You really think they're all born-and-bred Americans? Really?

[EFerrari]

26. You are quoting from an article written by a Minute Man

that is unsupported by primary sources.

And check out what a piece of work Mr. Valdemar is:

Sgt. Valdemar makes the following points in this Part-four of the Special Series:

* Special Order 40 was the name of the LAPD policy not to report illegal aliens to Federal immigration authorities, the L.A. County Sheriff's policy was similar


* Illegals stay loyal to Mexico: Years ago illegal aliens who stayed in the country and made it their home, became loyal to the United States; now he says "they stay loyal to Mexico and they hate us."


* Victims vs Villains: While American law enforcement officers are considered the villains, the illegals are considered victims of the "coyotes" the human smugglers who often rob, rape and abuse them.


* Minutemen are not racist: The Minuteman movement came about to discourage illegal border crossings. They are not racists, not Nazis, not whacko, they are level headed citizens, including Hispanics and even little old ladies.


* Illegal Immigration has always been associated with crime, gangs and drugs.

* NAFTA opened the door (borders) to drug cartels and corruption of our entire system, including political campaigns, law enforcement, etc.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/11/prweb483493.htm

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[NorthernSpy]

10. but the OP didn't say that he was "a member of a minority"...

South L.A.?

Maybe East L.A.?

They were born and raised here in the US like you were pal. You may want to rethink that little bit of knee jerk hysteria you are trying to troll here.

Oh well, it's nice that you have proven that one can be a member of a minority and still be a disgusting racist little jerk...

Uh oh... Are you one of those who assumes that only blacks could possibly take an interest in issues that affect blacks?

Apparently.


Oh, and no, not all of the gang members in question were born and raised here. That's why a bunch of them face deportation proceedings after their criminal charges are ironed out.

[maveric]

5. What jobs are they stealing from us?

CA used to be part of Mexico.
Remember?
That "stealing our jobs",line is getting tired IMO!

[Fire Walk With Me]

6. I've always wanted to do demeaning manual labor.

But the damn ferners took all my jobs! And here I was sooo looking forward to carrying around a leaf blower all day in the 100+ degree heat.

[cuke]

30. Was it Tom Delay who claimed he couldn't join the army

because minorities had already taken up all the slots? "They're stealing our jobs" always reminds me of that

[EFerrari]

32. Are you serious?! That's a joke, right?!

[cuke]

34. Nope. 100% serious

[NorthernSpy]

11. yes CA was part of Mexico -- until the Mexican government SOLD it to us...

... under the terms of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

[EFerrari]

15. The point being that Latinos have been in SoCal longer than

just about anyone else. The point was not who owns it.

[wuushew]

42. Polk was a pro-slavery asshole

The Mexican-American war was the Iraq of the 19th century.

[EFerrari]

7. What makes you think those gang members are undocumented?

[Change has come]

8. Invasion from the south?

Blaming this on "illegal Mexicans" seems kinda deceitful. :hi:

[fishwax]

12. what the fuck?

:wtf:

[NorthernSpy]

13. I know -- it's highly unusual for anyone not to automatically side against the black...

... in any given dispute.


But I guess it does occasionally happen. Praise!

[fishwax]

17. gee, i wonder if it's possible to do that without resorting to racist tropes about latinos?

now *that* would be something worthy of praise :)

[NorthernSpy]

20. you mean xenophobic...

None of the expressed resentments were specifically related to race.

[fishwax]

23. no, I meant what I said

[NorthernSpy]

25. then you're just not precise in your choice of words...

That's up to you.


:shrug:

[fishwax]

27. the wording in my post was precise

the equation of latinos with illegals is a racist maneuver, and not one that was necessary in order to not "side against the black."

Aside from that, that something is xenophobic doesn't mean it can't also be racist--indeed, the two have rarely been entirely separate in American discourse. (The current xenophobia about "Mexicans" isn't an exception.)

[EFerrari]

28. None of us are "legal" and we all know Maria. n/t

[fishwax]

29. 'xactly

:thumbsup:

On edit: I see the post in question has now been deleted ...

[cuke]

31. How ironic

NS lecturing on how to properly choose one's words after linking to a right wing website

[EFerrari]

33. The guy at that site makes his living posing as an expert

on gangs but mainly selling stuff to cops and wannabe cops. He's also a Latino and has found his niche market trashing his own people. :shrug:

[flashl]

9. I am having a hard time getting a solid read

about the mexican and black conflicts in CA. Usually, when one story prints that there is an urgent problem, shortly following that story is two more from blacks saying it is an exaggeration.

For example:

Manufactured Division and Gang Conflict

"(APR 2007) A call for peace and unity between gangs is not enough and may seem preposterous to gang members due to bloodshed and the loss of friends and family. However, a vision must be created that calls for conciliation in order to realize a greater common and covert enemy."


Black/Brown Conflict in Los Angeles

"(JAN 2007)THE ACRIMONIOUS relationship between Latinos and African Americans in Los Angeles is growing hard to ignore. Although last weekend's black-versus-Latino race riot at Chino state prison is unfortunately not an aberration, the Dec. 15 murder in the Harbor Gateway neighborhood of Cheryl Green, a 14-year-old African American, allegedly by members of a Latino gang, was shocking."

[EFerrari]

14. It is hard to get a fix on the situation. If I had to guess I'd say

that after all these years of hatemongering by the nutwing, it's propably worse now than say, 20 years ago.

[EFerrari]

21. And, according to this fact sheet, that guess is more or less right:

Myth: Gang violence has increased consistently for the last 15 years.
Fact: This myth is incomplete. Gang violence started to decrease 15 years ago, but in the last seven years, began to increase again in Los Angeles. There were 256 gang homicides in LA City from January to August 2002. This is a 22% increase from the same time period in 2001, and a 47% increase from the 5-year average for those months. LAPD, Citywide Gang Crime Summary, 2002


http://www.vpcla.org/factGang.htm

[NorthernSpy]

16. the wannabe ethnic cleansers are a cluster of gangs...

... who seem to have gone well beyond the usual gang behavior of fighting with other gang organizations for control of the drug trade and whatnot.


That's not something we can live with. I say end them.

[EFerrari]

24. Here's a site that has a 2006 article on the blacl/brown tensions

in Los Angeles. It also says that the fastest growing street gangs are the Asian ones.

http://www.streetgangs.com/magazine/070406racial.html

[NorthernSpy]

35. the heck of it is...

The issue discussed in the article in real. But all this angst over the news itself, and how it might be turned into propaganda, and what it might be used for, is just fretting over naught.

Because:

When faced with situations like this, blacks do not really react the way whites do.

When it comes to neighborhood demographic shift, whites tend to hit the road the minute they perceive their super-majority is threatened. Blacks, who are used to living as an embattled minority, stick around far longer.

And black and white attitudes toward illegal aliens are different also, with blacks consistently more tolerant -- despite a much higher likelihood of actually coming into conflict with Latinos. Apparently, as far as black attitudes as concerned, that conflict does not result in the same level of reactionary negative generalization that you'd see in the case of conflict between whites and Latinos.

One reason that this story hasn't had the propagandistic effect that you might expect is that blacks simply haven't taken the bait, because their cultural norms tend against that.


The other reason is that the people who do want to make use of the propaganda value of these incidents have never been particularly concerned for blacks to begin with, and therefore have no idea how to go about writing propaganda that they would respond to.

[EFerrari]

36. Why do you keep conflating Latinos with undocumented people?

[NorthernSpy]

37. I don't, but a substantial portion of the Latino population of LA county...

... is "undocumented", as you say.

It's just a fact, and it does figure into the discussion at multiple points.

[EFerrari]

38. Ah, yes, you do. Reread your own post. You use the categories

interchangeably. Not that I'm surprised at this point.

I have news for you. The Latino population in California was the fastest growing one BEFORE the last amnesty. Get used to it. We're taking over! :)

lol

[fishwax]

39. fretting over naught? It was used that way in this very thread

:shrug:

[NorthernSpy]

40. yeah -- a couple of posts on a message board...

Nothing like the real-life reaction in that Ohio story I pointed to, and I explained why.

That was the point.


:argh:

[mark414]

41. LA is on the brink of exploding, again

and most of it is playing out in the schools, exactly this type of thing; latinos vs. af.-americans

with the economy of most people tumbling further down and unemployment rising, violent crime is rising, social programs are hurting for cash (thanks to war) and the result will be another LA riot. it's going to be worse this time, more violent, more destruction, and everybody's going to act so surprised and outraged that "something like this could happen."

when you sow the seeds of destruction you can't be surprised when anger and violence grow big and grow strong