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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 09:57 AM
Original message
Gore Launches Virtual Town Hall: Asks Who We Want In 2008!
Gore Launches Virtual Town Hall: Asks Who We Want In 2008!
by astronautagogo
Sat Oct 27, 2007

... interesting email update from Al Gore via Current.


One of the features I'm most excited about on Current.com is called Viewpoints. Viewpoints is a virtual town hall where you can share your opinions, in video, about the issues that matter in the 2008 election: from global warming to government eavesdropping, and many more.

This digital town hall is already bustling, and you can find viewpoints from me and from a lot of people, including the candidates running for President. Come and listen to their positions and, more importantly, tell them and the rest of the world what you think!

Since Viewpoints is the only place on the Web where you can easily share your view in video, my hope is that you'll take this opportunity to go toe-to-toe with the pundits on TV and help contribute to a new platform for public discourse. All it takes is a webcam and 60 seconds.

And, since we'll be taking the most popular and most compelling viewpoints and airing them on Current TV -- now available in 52 million homes around the world -- you may very well get your voice heard on our global TV network.

I look forward to seeing and hearing you on Current.com, as we deepen the discussion on these important topics:

http://current.com/...

Thank you,

Al Gore


via:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/27/43749/356

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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. He knows who we want .
The ball is in his court.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Indeed
and many of us who want Gore to run are looking elsewhere, since he has not declared.
Not giving up on Plan A but not counting on it, either.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
35. Why does he need to declare?
He is showing you the future, you can hear him on issues, and no media will be censoring it. You can ask him questions, and he can answer you...Nixon and Kennedy changed the way we elect presidents when they stepped out on that stage before a television camera...Gore is showing you how it will be done from now on...Its right in front of you. Gore didn't invent the internet, but make no mistake, he is well aware of it's potential.

He doesn't have to announce in the traditional sense. If he truly is the People's choice, they will Write in the name of AL Gore, on their ballot.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Everyone should have a dream
"If he truly is the People's choice, they will Write in the name of AL Gore, on their ballot" is yours. Dream on.
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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daninthemoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for the heads up.
:thumbsup: :hi:
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yellowdogintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
5. "If we can't have him, we don't want nobody baby, If we can't have him..
..etc.

He KNOWS....

sigh.

teaser
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
38. "Teaser" The flirting is starting to piss me off.
Declare a run or Endorse a runner, Now.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #38
58. I'm with you.
It is getting late, and holding hope is tiresome. Al, I want you to run, but if you're not---say it clear.
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the other one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
6. Tell him Edwards
Or Dodd. Or O'Bama.

Okay, my problem with Gore is that he didn't fight for us in 2000. Everyone knew that if Bush took office the country would go to hell, and many people were willing to hit the streets to fight for Gore, but he conceded for the sake of national unity. What a miscalculation that was. Don't you recall how he mocked black congressmen during the electoral college vote? Sorry, but I don't take him as seriously as some of his fans around here.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Gore returned to Florida and spoke at the state convention -
He was passionate that the people whose right to vote had been trod upon be recognized and the system be changed.

At the time of the possible electoral vote challenge, the Supreme Court had already handed the election to Bush - if Gore had supported the electoral college vote challenge then the issue would have again gone to the Supreme Court - which would have ruled, again, in Bush favor. The Chief Justice at the time - Rehnquist - had, as a young man, participated in activities to disenfranchise African American voters. The electoral vote challenge may have been the right thing to do to try and force the issue into the corporate media -- but the corporate media was have a fine time destroying everything that Gore said and did at the time. If he had stood up with the congressmen and women who were protesting, the corporate media would have attacked Gore's efforts as self-serving and they would have attacked the Black Caucus members mercilessly. It is also possible that coverage of the electoral vote challenge would have been largely ignored - as happened in the 2004 election - it shocked me how well the issue was ignored, presented as a little 'blip' and then gone, gone, gone down the memory hole.

Gore did fight in Florida - long after the rest of the Democratic Party had abandoned him. He has been blamed, in past, for not contesting the entire state when, in fact, he could not. According to Florida state law both candidates have to request a state-wide recount for one to occur.

What is one to do after a Supreme Court decision? Pick up a rock or a brick or a stone or a gun and have an armed revolution? The public was in no way ready to lead a massive non-violent strike to turn events around. I wasn't - I didn't know that Gore had won Florida until somewhere around 2003 when I was talking to a friend about the horror of the impending invasion of Iraq.

It is never simple...
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. If Gore Had been Allowed to Take Office, The Warmongers Would Have JFKed Him
Gore made only one really bad mistake, and that was picking LIEberman as VP.

Gore would have turned down the PNACers just as President Clinton did.
They would have had him killed (and probably blamed it on "terrorists")
and LIEberman would have been delighted to invade Iraq and any other country Israel doesn't like.
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Gore did fight for us in 2000 - all the way to the Supreme Court...
What was he supposed to do when the SCOTUS decision came down - take up arms and advocate revolution?
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
44. His Party didn't support him,
nor did it support Kerry in '04.
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disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #44
56. Of course the key people
in the Democratic Party, except Dean, possibly, were looking forward to a Clinton POTUS, '08.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #56
63. It sure looks that way
to me.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
40. He didn't mock anyone
where did you come up with that?!

He fought all the way to the Supreme Court. There is no next-step after that except Armed Rebellion. :shrug:
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rainy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
55. He could say the same about us. We didn't fight for him. We were not out in the
streets staging an Orange revolution. The problem was the media. If the media would have reported the truth, the country would have had no doubts about what was taking place. Remember how Greg Palast couldn't even get our media to report on the scrub lists in Florida. I think that because we have a more difficult time getting the truth out, because of the corporate interests of the media, we fight an uphill battle at every turn.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. Error: You've already recommended that thread.
:mad:

;-)

:hi:
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Blue Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I'll kick and reccommend...
since you can't do it twice. ;)
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Thank you! (n/t)
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
10. I WANT I WANT I WANT...
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
13. Current TV is Awesome
just like the man himself.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. YOU, Al!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
15. Contact him here:
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
16. Al, we need you. War and death pollutes. You went back to working
on the environment. Now, come back to politics. For us and the earth. For souls and their bodies. For humanity, for history.

Reverse the damage here. Progress that benefits all.

Al .... come back.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
17. Really?
I don't see where Gore is asking who we want in '08. I think this is a call for the exchange of ideas on the issues and not a call to try and get Gore to run.

JMO
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. I agree. The subject line is misleading. nt
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
33. I'm sorry but i think so too
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. look again
"...and you can find viewpoints from me and from a lot of people, including the candidates running for President. Come and listen to their positions and, more importantly, tell them and the rest of the world what you think!"

Bring it, Al!

from me and from a lot of people, including the candidates running for President

He's making them come to him.
Brilliant.

Al is walking the road never traveled in Presidential Politics.
Power to the People.

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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. I don't need to look again.....
nowhere does it indicate he's asking who we want to run for president. Lots of people keep reading shit into everything Al Gores says and does and it's a bunch of bs.

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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Yep yep...Al Gore is walking the road never traveled
in Presidential Politics. :bounce: the man is a genius
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Sukie1941 Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
18. I don't have video capabilities
and can't afford it. Seems emailing viewpoints isn't acceptable anymore.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Emailing is a viable method of communication
it just won't earn you a video spot on the Current site. "No Big Whoop" as the Frat-Rat-in-Chief might say.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
22. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, kpete.
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dogindia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. k&r
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
25. K&R!
You, Al, you!
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
26. I swear, they're gonna have the Iowa primary and the next day....
Someone is gonna urge Gore to jump into the race as a write-in candidate. lol
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DesertRat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I guess it would depend on who won the primary...
:hide:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
29. Unannounced Gore only 5 pts. behind Hillary in CBS poll...
After posting the above comment on the inaccuracy of the subject line, I happened upon this fascinating front-pager at Bradblog (10/26/07):

"'CBS Poll: Gore Trails Hillary by Only 5 Points, Is Ahead of Other Front-Runners, Has Best Favorability Rating in Race Among Registered Democrats


'(CBS/WBEN) - Hillary Clinton continues to be the frontrunner for the Democratic nomination for president, and many voters say they’ll consider supporting her in November 2008 if she becomes the Democratic nominee.

"Still, there are obstacles. Many voters think a Hillary Clinton presidency will divide the country rather than unite it. And when Al Gore is added to the list of Democratic candidates, he trails by only five points.
...

'Although he has not declared his candidacy, this poll indicates that were he to enter the race, Al Gore could be a serious contender. Near the end of this questionnaire, his name was added to a short list of candidates vying for the nomination. He came in second among Democratic primary voters at 32% – just five points behind Hillary Clinton. Barack Obama trailed behind them in third place with 16% percent.

We note that his favorable/unfavorable rating among registered Democrats in this poll is currently at 46/29. That's better than than any of the others in the race (Clinton: 26/63, Obama: 38/24, Edwards: 30/30)"

(MORE)

Oct. 26, 2007 - http://bradblog.com/

------------------------------------------

Far be it from me to stoke this "knight in shining armor," somebody-ELSE-is-going-to-save-our-democracy syndrome that seems to buzz a lot of American heads, including some pretty good heads. Not "sheeple." But that's a pretty impressive stat--that Gore is within 5% of Hillary without even trying. Also, Hillary's very low favorable rating, I think, reflects the American peoples' distrust of Hillary and her Corporatist/War Mongering policies, and possibly her husband's NAFTA policies; it is not--or not primarily--based on rightwingnut Hillary bashing. 70% of the American people oppose the political establishment's war--a whopping anti-war majority. That tracks with her disapproval rating. And some people may just dislike her. She's not a terribly likeable personality.

I was touting Gore for a while. (I really wanted to see a Restoration Ticket--Gore/Kerry--in acknowledgment of TWO stolen presidential elections, and their rightful winners, to restore order in this country, and the peoples' choices. Not MY choices--though I voted for both. The peoples' choices--what a REAL counting of the votes would have resulted in.) But not any more. Why? Because I thought about it a lot. Also, because Gore seems to have decided not to run, and I think he has a good reason: global warming is so serious a crisis--we're losing our planet, very fast, and this MUST be stopped--that this issue should not be politicized (any more than it already is); Gore has to work with the Corporatists and their chosen Emperor--probably Hillary--to save the planet; if he runs against her, he will likely end up frozen out of her regime, and if he runs against a Puke who 'wins,' same thing. He loses his "above the fray," Nobel Peace Prize influence. Third reason: Kerry, though I am totally convinced that he won, in 2004, has been highly disappointing since then, especially on his failure to fight against the rigged electronic voting systems--the main thing that cost him the election, and that is holding up democratic reform in every sphere now. Would I want him even a VP? Not really, not now. Still, he won. So I was torn for a while--just wanting order to be restored!

But now I see that too many people who are attached to a Gore candidacy for 2008 may be failing to prepare themselves for what is likely to happen--installation of corporatist and warmonger Hillary, as (fake) "liberal" emperor, with all the fascist powers pioneered by Bush/Cheney still in tact.

What are we gonna do? That is the question. See the shit hit the fan (economic meltdown, military Draft), riot, and get crushed? Or are we going to get smart, think strategically, and start thinking long term? First priority: Throwing these goddamned election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor'(so to speak). Fighting in every venue that we can--state/local being the most hopeful--to restore TRANSPARENT VOTE COUNTING. And, once we start being able to elect real representatives to Washington DC: bust up corporate news monopolies; provide public financing (and free media) for political campaigns; cut the military budget by about 90%, down to a true defensive posture (no more wars of choice!); re-create a fair tax code; end "corporate personhood"; and fire the Supreme Court. A lot more needs to be done, but those are some of the biggies--and all reform is utterly dependent upon restoring a transparent vote counting system, as a start.

A Gore presidency could even retard the kind of citizen activism that is needed to restore our democracy and take our country back, and that is needed also to slow down global warming and other (and related) environmental destruction. (If the salmon are gone, who fertilize the forest soil when they swim upstream to spawn and die, then the soil is not enriched and the trees are smaller, weaker and more disease-prone (as well as more fire-prone), and are poorer cleansers of the C02 in the atmosphere--it's all related! Damage to salmon spawning habitat from logging, dams and pesticides, overfishing in the ocean, ocean pollution from big tanker traffic (global corporate predator "free trade"), and other impacts climb up the chain to the atmosphere, while we pour more C02 into the atmosphere, with fewer big healthy trees and dense forests to absorb it--and this sends the weather wacky and gravely unbalances the entire life system of the planet.)

With problems like these to solve, we need a mobilized citizenry, with each of us taking responsibility. If we rely on a "great leader" to tell us what to do, and to mobilize us, all the fascists have to do is knock off the "great leader." I say this having lived through the JFK, RFK and MLK assassinations. Or, all they have to do these days is insert a few lines of secret code into the corporate-controlled voting machines, and--presto!--Gore loses! (What about THAT possibility?)

We've got to STOP depending on "white knight" leaders, and start creating the kind of democracy that we once were, that put men on the moon! A democracy with common, positive goals. A democracy in which people don't have to be told what to do. A democracy that NATURALLY creates all kinds of solutions, and implements them. Unfortunately, we are not likely to have the most fortuitous circumstance for solving great problems, of a combination of great government leadership and a great, creative, industrious, can-do, progressive, democratic people. We have potential to be the latter--and already are, in many ways; but we will not get the former--great government leaders--for some time to come. We are blockaded from doing so. Our election system is rigged. I'm not saying I wouldn't WANT great government leadership. But we're not likely to get it. So, what do we do in the meantime? Cry? Lament it all? Keep hoping Gore will run and save us from ourselves? Or get busy doing what needs to be done to create the conditions in which great leadership CAN come to power, and, meanwhile, start addressing this unprecedented problem--global warming--ourselves, as our gift to future human beings.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Gore does not trail H. Clinton by 5% - the MOE is 5% - there is no statistically
significant difference in support between Gore & Clinton.

As for Gore saving the planet and/or saving us -- he can't. Only we can do that.

As for a Gore presidency retarding the growing activism, IMO, it isn't likely. The activism that has been growing is one that I believe he has nurtured and will continue to nurture in future whether or not he is President.

"Assault on Reason" is a call to arms -- all good people must come to the aid of their country!

His discussion of solutions for the climate crisis all include a role for a mobilized citizenry.

Current.com is a citizen driven news site. Have you thought about how revolutionary it is for Current TV, a national channel, to have a majority of its content viewer contributed? That is huge and that is Al. He explicitly stated at the Grammy Award ceremony that he wants for us to use Current to reinvigorate democracy.

Even if there are vestiges of 'establishmentarianism' in Gore, and I think there are, he can be swayed by a (r)evolutionary public. FDR ran for office as a moderate, talking about the importance of reducing tariffs, and he governed from a progressive position because that was what the people of a vibrant democracy demanded.

I think that Al Gore is our best hope as President to continue the activism and expand it -- he is most likely to be a 'representative' of the people -- and that is what I want.

Peace.
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Admiral Loinpresser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
49. Dude, pass some of that primo shit you are smoking!
Let me get a Pavarotti-sized hit off your spliff and see if I can follow you, graf by graf!

Far be it from me to stoke this "knight in shining armor," somebody-ELSE-is-going-to-save-our-democracy syndrome that seems to buzz a lot of American heads, including some pretty good heads. Not "sheeple."


I have heard NOBODY advocate that Gore is a substitute for citizen action. Rather, the usual emphasis is that we need great leadership in addition to citizen activism-- a huge distinction. As a matter of fact the draft Gore movement is characterized by a higher degree of citizen activism than for any declared candidate.

I was touting Gore for a while. ... But not any more. Why? Because I thought about it a lot.


Well, to quote Gore's mother: "Think some more and vote for Gore!"


Also, because Gore seems to have decided not to run, and I think he has a good reason: global warming is so serious a crisis--we're losing our planet, very fast, and this MUST be stopped--that this issue should not be politicized (any more than it already is);


If he has already decided not to run, why hasn't he said so? As to politicizing global warming, I could not disagree further. There are several major items (e.g. a carbon freeze), which were proposed by Gore as legislation at his Congressional testimony in March this year. Proposing legislation is inherently politicizing the issue and we will have to defeat the far right to get these things passed.


Gore has to work with the Corporatists and their chosen Emperor--probably Hillary--to save the planet; if he runs against her, he will likely end up frozen out of her regime, and if he runs against a Puke who 'wins,' same thing. He loses his "above the fray," Nobel Peace Prize influence.


If he/we have to beg HRC or a GOP prez to take necessarily radical action our chances of success will be greatly reduced. Sweet, gentle Jesus! Don't you get that?!? We've been begging Dubya for seven years and he hasn't done a damn thing.

But now I see that too many people who are attached to a Gore candidacy for 2008 may be failing to prepare themselves for what is likely to happen--installation of corporatist and warmonger Hillary, as (fake) "liberal" emperor, with all the fascist powers pioneered by Bush/Cheney still in tact.


We're using our voices to avoid that possibly fatal alternative. Without Gore in the White House, the chances that the polar icecap will eventually break up and the Greenland and Antarctic ice shelves will melt are increased. Those issues so dwarf any of the American political issues that you mention as to make them completely secondary to radical governmental action on climate change.


What are we gonna do? ... Or are we going to get smart, think strategically, and start thinking long term? First priority: Throwing these goddamned election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor'(so to speak). Fighting in every venue that we can--state/local being the most hopeful--to restore TRANSPARENT VOTE COUNTING. And, once we start being able to elect real representatives to Washington DC: bust up corporate news monopolies; provide public financing (and free media) for political campaigns; cut the military budget by about 90%, down to a true defensive posture (no more wars of choice!); re-create a fair tax code; end "corporate personhood"; and fire the Supreme Court. A lot more needs to be done, but those are some of the biggies--and all reform is utterly dependent upon restoring a transparent vote counting system, as a start.


I'm very much in favor of most of that, but it is secondary-- see my post above. Global warming is not going to wait for us. We have to elect a great leader in 2008 or die.

A Gore presidency could even retard the kind of citizen activism that is needed to restore our democracy and take our country back, and that is needed also to slow down global warming and other (and related) environmental destruction.


I'm glad you were able to take another hit, but it didn't seem to do any good. Why would electing the most charismatic leader of our generation inhibit activism. JFK & RFK didn't inhibit activism, they inspired more. If we elect a bullshit leader like HRC or a GOP, what reason do I have to fight? It's likely as useless as it has been since January 2001, when everything started going to hell. Armed insurrection may be the most attractive alternative at that point.

With problems like these to solve, we need a mobilized citizenry, with each of us taking responsibility. If we rely on a "great leader" to tell us what to do, and to mobilize us, all the fascists have to do is knock off the "great leader." I say this having lived through the JFK, RFK and MLK assassinations. Or, all they have to do these days is insert a few lines of secret code into the corporate-controlled voting machines, and--presto!--Gore loses! (What about THAT possibility?)


If Gore is elected, I will be energized to follow through on mobilizing public opinion for real Congressional and treaty action AS WELL AS individual action like light bulbs and other life style issues. Great leaders like Washington, Lincoln, both Roosevelts and LBJ didn't do it on their own. They worked with the people to make progressive change. That's how we won the Revolution, abolished slavery, got the muckraker and trust buster reforms and the civil rights revolution. It takes both.

Al Gore has done more (e.g. creating the Internet in Congress, Current.com and the biggest activist concert in world history) to promote activism than any American in history. He has also accomplished more to combat global warming AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL (i.e. Kyoto) than any other American in history. He can do both.

We've got to STOP depending on "white knight" leaders, and start creating the kind of democracy that we once were, that put men on the moon! A democracy with common, positive goals. A democracy in which people don't have to be told what to do. A democracy that NATURALLY creates all kinds of solutions, and implements them. Unfortunately, we are not likely to have the most fortuitous circumstance for solving great problems, of a combination of great government leadership and a great, creative, industrious, can-do, progressive, democratic people. We have potential to be the latter--and already are, in many ways; but we will not get the former--great government leaders--for some time to come.


BULLSHIT!!!!!!!! We have a great leader. His name is Al Gore. James Hansen & other noted scientists say we have a short window to act globally (requiring US leadership). We can't wait for electoral reform. If we wait, we die. We have to renew political will NOW and Act-- systemically and individually or face global holocaust in a couple of decades.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #49
64. Admiral Loinpresser, I would be most happy to see both great leadership in
government--and I do, very much, think that Al Gore fills that bill--AND great citizen activism working together to save our planet and our democracy. I would be overjoyed, actually. I agree with James Hansen that we have a short window in which to save our planet's biosphere (and ourselves), and that U.S. leadership is critically needed. What I am saying is that I don't think we are going to have this combination--great leadership and great citizen activism--as the result of next year's election. I think we, the people, are on our own.

In my opinion, very retrograde leadership is going to be foisted upon us--both in the White House and Congress--leadership that is essentially no different than the leadership we have now. The President--likely Hillary--will have a phony "liberal" veneer, but policies of corporate resource war, gas gouging, credit card usury, job off-shoring, global corporate piracy ("free trade"--and its vast, highly polluting tanker traffic), health care profiteering, logging of ours and the world's last forests, more pollution, ineffective action on global warming (remember B. Clinton's position on Kyoto?), and ripping up the Constitution, will CONTINUE. And we may have a 'Democratic' Congress in name only, like we do now, but nothing is going to change.

I think that is the MOST realistic guess as to what is going to happen. Why do you think they put the rigged voting machine system in place? To let it lie fallow, while we elect a revolutionary environmental leader as president--someone who adamantly opposes their corporate resource war; someone who passionately opposes key policies of that war, such as torturing prisoners; someone who won't pander to oil corporations and other global corporate predators; someone who WILL convert this country to alternative energy as quickly as possible, as well as implementing other radical plans that are going to totally shake up "things as they are"?

Not likely. Our Corporate Rulers have things locked up, at the federal level. THEY now control election outcomes, not just with massive amounts of money, and with a total monopoly over our TV/radio PUBLIC airwaves, but ALSO with extremely riggable and non-transparent voting machines!

What reasons do you have that make you think that they will NOT use the capabilities they have to rig our elections? Do you understand what has been done to our vote counting system? It has been made totally non-transparent, and is now run on "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations. Three fascist corporations (Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia) now have DIRECT, SECRET control of election outcomes, all over the country. This highly non-transparent system was fast-tracked into place, during the 2002 to 2004 period, for the PURPOSE of preventing the American people from electing the leadership it wants and needs.

What have you to say to this? How do you expect Gore to BE elected? They kept him out of office the first time by SETTING UP the "hanging chad" fracas (deliberately, with malice aforethought--see Dan Rather's "The Trouble With Touchscreens," at www.HD.net), then buying the Supreme Court to stop the vote counting. They kept Bush/Cheney IN office, in 2004, by installing this direct, secret riggability. They WILL continue in this vein. There is no reason to think otherwise.

All I'm saying is that this is a REALISTIC assessment of the situation. It may be a factor in what appears to be Gore's decision not to run, although I think NOT further politicizing the global warming issue may be the critical factor for him. By politicizing, I mean, a) a knockdown dragout with Hillary and the Clinton corporate/DLC/money machine, that would further embitter an already bitter relationship (Gore, the Clintons), and b) a knockdown dragout with the rightwing/fascist Bushite machine, in the general election. If Gore were to lose--that is, if the election theft machines were to deny him the Presidency, once again--where would global warming stand, as an issue of critical importance? It would be tainted with bitterness and partisanship--and even with civil war.

Of course, global warming is politicized already--mostly because rightwing extremists in the Republican Party and the Corporate news monopolies are shilling for the Corporate Rulers, and are promoting irrational "denial." And, of course, the issue has a political aspect to it, since legislation will be needed, and since C02 pollution is inherent in our economy. It will be a struggle with big corporations and their bought and paid for politicians, and propaganda media, to get anything done. I think you are misunderstanding my use of the word "politicization." What I mean is its overly close identification with one person--a candidate--or one party, so that nothing can be done, if that person or party loses elections (whether truly, or by theft).

Several things can occur that can possibly change my prediction. One is that Gore runs and the American people outvote the machines. I DO think that is POSSIBLE--such an overwhelming vote that it simply blows the rigged voting machines out of the water. There is significant evidence that the machines have to be pre-programmed--it's not so easy for them to implement changes in percentages for switching or 'disappearing' votes on the day of the election. So a big blowout vote could throw their calculations off. And they have to be careful not to be too obvious, so as to preserve the riggable system for future uses.

Also, there is more vigilance over elections now than there was in 2004. But several things have happened in RESPONSE to that increased vigilance. One is that rigging of the elections occurs at an earlier stage of the elections, in the primaries, where true representatives of the people (for instance, antiwar candidates in 2006) are eliminated, and even before that, in the use of big money and corporate media to drive good candidates out of the race, before any voting occurs. One form of rigging in 2006 was the promotion of "Blue Dog" Democrats, whose positions differ very little from Bush's. Thus, people who voted for a Democrat to stop the war, for instance, often ended up with a congressional representative who is voting FOR the war. In short, they don't have to rig THOSE elections. These "Blue Dog" Democrats will keep the war and the corporate looting on track. They can then concentrate their electronic rigging capability on re-electing Bushite criminals and minimizing any leftist gains, and shape the OVERALL numbers in Congress, to prevent change and reform. We, the People, are more vigilant, but they, the Corporate Rulers, are not stupid--are, in fact, quite clever in their diabolical methods of control--and are very powerful, and adaptable.

Another thing that has occurred is that the corporate media exit pollster (Edison-Mitosky) got so burned by the controversy around their exit polls in 2004 that they have changed their policies and the exit polls will no longer be useful for verifying elections. In 2004, the real exit polls showed a Kerry win; they then DOCTORED their exit polls to force them to FIT the results of Diebold/ES&S's "trade secret" vote counting formulae (Bush won). But some alert statistical experts and bloggers took screen shots of the exit polls before they were changed, and established that the exit polls were doctored in impossible ways. Bush could not have won, and did not win, that election. Edison-Mitofsky vowed never to let their real exit polls get onscreen again. That information will be suppressed. So, unless the Democratic Party or independent entities conduct their OWN exit polls, there will be no way to verify the results of the 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting. They can steal it from Gore--and from good congressional candidates--and we will be unable to prove it.

I may be wrong about Gore's intention to run. I'm just trying to be REALISTIC about it. No, he hasn't said he won't run. But, yes, his window of opportunity to run for President is getting very short. In addition to the outright vote rigging, the system is rigged in many other ways. Once a candidate locks up sufficient first round votes at the convention--by running in (rigged) primaries--it is extremely difficult to deny that candidate the nomination. Unusual circumstances would have to arise (say, a very bitterly divided convention--with Gore coming in as a unity candidate). Then there's the money. Yes, an outside-the-system candidate COULD conceivably get the nomination--in rare circumstances--without raising zillions of dollars--say, with a massive citizen movement behind him. But we're talking very long odds. If Gore doesn't enter the primaries, and isn't raising funds, he has almost no chance to win the nomination. And it would be another unusual circumstance--and not very likely at all--for Gore to run as an Independent, outside the Democratic Party, and win. And if he DOESN'T win, what has he done to the global warming issue? He has steeped it in bitter reprisals.

If the primaries are NOT rigged for Hillary (and that is very unlikely, in my opinion--I think she's the global corporate predators' "made" candidate), and if unrigged primaries produce a mixed result, with no clear winner, or with Hillary in a very shaky position, THAT circumstance could prompt a party leadership request to Gore to be a unity candidate.

And if you and others want to work to create such circumstances, I don't see anything wrong with that at all, and certainly do not oppose it. But I think it's a highly vulnerable basis for one's hopes for our democracy, and for our desire to solve global warming. We MUST prepare for a hostile, or do-nothing, or do-as-little-as-possible atmosphere in Washington DC, that is little different from today's atmosphere. Washington DC is an acid bath of corruption. The people who ARE CAUSING GLOBAL WARMING control our government, our political system and our voting machines. That is NOT going to change quickly or easily. And if all your hopes are pinned on Gore becoming president, WHAT do you do if he does NOT become president?

Gore is a smart fellow. I think he knows all of this. And I'm guessing that he won't run--that is, won't announce, raise money and enter the primaries--if Hillary remains the frontrunner. If she stumbles badly, he might enter, say, half way through the primaries, as a unity candidate. And I think he's possibly open to being a unity candidate, if certain other exigencies arise.

But, again, WHAT are you going to do if that doesn't happen? Move to Canada? Or keep on keeping on--re-building our democracy from the bottom up, and simultaneously joining with others to solve global warming, without strong political leadership in Washington?

And what I was saying, above, is maybe that's for the best. Maybe what we need is not so much a "great leader" as great grass roots organization. A great and new and different democracy IN LIEU OF great leadership. A great, vast citizen movement that, by consensus, STARTS SOLVING global warming, and THEN forces WHOEVER is in power to do the right thing, or get out of our way. Isn't that the very definition of democracy?

If you put all your hopes in Gore, and that doesn't happen, do you then succumb to depression and demoralization? It is a very serious danger, in my opinion. The people of this country--and good leftist activists in particular--have suffered serious psychological blows over the last several years. The 2000 election theft. 9/11. The war on Iraq. The "Help America Vote Act." The shredding of our Constitution. One appalling fascist policy after another. The 2004 election theft. The more devious 2006 election theft. "Impeachment is off the table." 'Democrats' endorsing and funding the war (--with 70% of the American people against it). A 'Democratic' Congress with an 11% approval rating!

How many times have we put faith in our system, and been bitterly disappointed? You have to proceed WITHOUT FAITH. Because this political system is BROKEN. It is structurally, and inherently, and rigidly opposed to change. And expecting an Al Gore candidacy for president to magically move this system, and produce a revolution, and alter our course is a lot LESS realistic than what I have described. I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm just saying: THIS time, BE PREPARED. Don't expect miracles. Don't expect it to work. Chances are it will NOT work. THEN what?
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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
30. Gore did what? Aren't these stories starting to look like the buildup to an announcement?
Think about it. In my experience with the PR business, except for the biggest blockbuster stories, just about everything you read, hear, or see in the media is PLACED by somebody. There's too much competition for newspaper space or broadcast time for stories without advocates, in the form of corporations, PR firms, or other organizations, to survive--and especially in an environment where lots of newsworthy stories are being censored by media executives.

Ever since Gore won the Nobel Prize we've seen a tremendous amount of coverage on him. Somebody has to be behind that coverage. They're backed by resources, and they are driven by some sort of objective.

And lately you see the topics of that coverage being narrowed to a very specific set.

I don't know if he's going to run for President or not. I'm just saying that one could arguably interpret his recent media coverage as taking on the appearance of a buildup to some sort of event, and that aspects of that coverage now seem to be shaped by those with a specific purpose in mind.

I'd like to know if other DUers have noticed this effect, and what others here think of his recent coverage.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. My latest message to Mr Gore @ current.com
http://current.com/items/84986481_get_the_troops_home

Good afternoon Mr Gore,

Many of us suspect that you are providing a cogent lesson in 21st century people-powered, internet-enabled politics.

We also notice that you are leading in many different polls apart from the fact that you have not announced your candidacy for President.

We also notice that one of the upsides of your strategy is that you are expending way fewer $$s than Billary and the others and, yet, you are always 'in the news' - because of what you are DOING.

The traditional media folk are all too aware that they are being "disintermediated" by US - the People.

Do be sure to register in time for Iowa and NH, however - or, simply, call for a write-in, in all primaries, and watch what happens!!

In any event, looking forward to electing you as President come Nov 2008.

To the future - the one we are all going to build together,
Bob



"We the People ..." know how to write ... just say'n ...


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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
34. I saw this...and went OMG he's announcing...but he hasn't announced yet...Damn it!
:argh:
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Just breathe, Golden
It's all good, baby.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #34
51. Just write him in in the primary -- We The People WILL prevail (nt)
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
41. Thanks for the forum Mr.Gore. Too bad so many miss the meaning of it
And more than likely won't be particpating to actually give a serious viewpoint because they are too busy badgering you.
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. There is Great Irony in your name and what you do on this site. nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. What I do on this site is respect his words and support his endeavors
Edited on Sat Oct-27-07 11:15 PM by RestoreGore
I don't use them for my own BS political agenda.
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #46
53. Unfortunately, you never really paid attention to his words before...
... so why start now?

In 2002 when he said he absolutely wasn't running and asked the Draft Gore movement to stop.. you kept on.

Then in 2007 when he REFUSES to say he absolutely isn't running and HASN'T as the draft Gore movement to stop... you are pestering people to leave him alone, when he clearly WANTS people to bug him.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #46
54. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #41
50. AHHHHHHH!
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #41
52. As well they should.. since he is INVITING it. (nt)
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #52
59. Well, whatever gets you through your days.
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Milo_Bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Living in the real world helps a lot, you should try it sometimes. (nt)
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everydayis911 Donating Member (134 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
42. Right now I have dial-up
So going to something like that site would take me FOREVER to watch other videos but if Gore is that close to all the Dems and he ain't even running yet it say's a lot if he did run. I even think he would get a lot of Rethuglicans to vote for him too.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
47. I got a case of blue balls waiting for this guy to make a move.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
48. ...
Recommended :kick: #39
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
57. Re-Elect
President Gore, and impeach Scalia to prevent another attack on the majority that was irreparably harmed by Scalia's decision to issue a stay blocking the Florida recount.
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Hersheygirl Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
60. It doesn;t really matter what we want,
It's who the corporations want. One can keep wishing and talking all they want, Hillary will be the next president.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
62. That's like George Clooney asking who do you fantasize about?
What a tease. :banghead:
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