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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:24 PM
Original message
* doesn't need authorization from Congress to attack Iran
Edited on Sat Oct-27-07 12:24 PM by cuke
The Constitution only requires congressional authorization for a Declaration of War. It does not require Congress to pre-approve any military action

In addition, the War Powers Act makes clear that every President has the power to order an attack and then has 60 days before s/he has to justify it. Sixty days is more than enough for * to launch an attack
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. And the authorization for Iraq covers "terrorists" the heuchlers have
just named parts of the Iranian military terrorists.

Cheney now has all he needs to cover his ass. For him it is now a search for an opportunity that garners 20% additional popular support. That ain't all that hard to orchestrate.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. that's one point of view-- it's not shared by many, if not most---
--constitutional scholars. The framers of the constitution did not envision a standing military like that of the modern U.S., nor did they imagine that the U.S. military would one day be used by the executive branch as an instrument of foreign policy rather than in defense of the Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution

The War Powers Resolution has been controversial since it became law, because it did not settle the question of the Constitutional division of powers between branches of U.S. government with regard to the declaration and the conduct of war. See Separation of powers under the United States Constitution for more on this topic.

Though not a formal declaration of war, there remain underlying questions that its constitutionality is consistent with the provisions of the resolution. The reports to Congress required of the President have been drafted to state that they are "consistent with" the War Powers Resolution rather than "pursuant to" so as to take into account the Presidential position that the Resolution is unconstitutional.

One argument for the unconstitutionality of the War Powers Resolution — Philip Bobbitt's in "War Powers: An Essay on John Hart Ely's War and Responsibility: Constitutional Lessons of Vietnam and Its Aftermath," Michigan Law Quarterly 92, no. 6 (May 1994): 1364–1400 — runs as follows: "The power to make war is not an enumerated power" and the notion that to "declare" war is to "commence" war is a "contemporary textual preconception"; the Framers of the Constitution believed that statutory authorization was the route by which the United States would be committed to war, and that 'declaration' was meant for only total wars, as shown by the history of the Quasi-War with France (1798–1800); in general, constitutional powers are not so much separated as "linked and sequenced"; Congress's control over the armed forces is "structured" by appropriation, while the president commands; thus the act of declaring war should not be fetishized. (Bobbitt, the nephew of Lyndon Johnson, also argues that "A democracy cannot… tolerate secret policies" because they undermine the legitimacy of governmental action.)

A second constitutionality argument concerns a possible breach of the 'separation of powers' doctrine, and whether this Act changes the balance between the Legislative and Executive functions. The President is bound by an Oath of Office: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability; preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States." (US Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, Clause 8). This type of constitutional controversy is similar to one that occurred under President Andrew Johnson with the Tenure of Office Act (1867). In that prior instance, the Legislative branch attempted to control the removal of Executive branch officers. Here, the separation of powers issue is whether the War Powers Resolution requirements for Congressional approval and Executive reporting to Congress change the constitutional balance established in Articles I and II, namely that Congress is explicitly granted the sole authority to declare war while the Executive has inherent authority as Commander in Chief. This argument does not address the other reporting requirements imposed in executive officials and agencies by other statutes, nor does it address the provisions of Article I Section 8 that give Congress the authority to "make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces". The argument raises the issue of the executive's inherent authority as Commander in Chief, without addressing whether (or when) any other military commanders may ignore such rules, or whether (and when) only the Commander in Chief would not be bound by such rules. The US Supreme Court has not ruled on these issues.

There is also an unresolved legal question, discussed by Justice White in INS v. Chadha of whether a "key provision of the War Powers Resolution", namely 50 U.S.C. 1544(c), constitute an improper legislative veto. (See Chahda, 462 U.S. 919, 971). The provisions in that section 5(c) state "such forces shall be removed by the President if the Congress so directs by concurrent resolution". Justice White argues in his dissent in Chadha that this is a violation of the Presentment clause. The majority in Chadha does not resolve the issue. Justice White does not address or evaluate in his dissent whether that section would fall within the inherent Congressional authority under Article I Section 8 to "make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces."
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I agree with that %100, but I still stand by my OP
Yes, the Framers intended that only Congress would have the power to get the US involved in a full-scale war. They assumed that any declaration of war would either include, or be accompanied by, legislation that formed and financed the army that would fight the war.

Unfortunately, the Constitution has been changed according to a process that is constitutionally sound. Because we now have a standing army, the Constitution no longer requires a declaration of war for the president to initiate military actions

Now, I'm not saying I'm happy about this, or that this is consistent with the way the Framers envisioned this happening. I imagine, given the clearly expressed concerns the Framers had wrt a standing army, that they would have wanted some sort of protection against military misadventures to accompany the formation of our standing army, but unfortunately, that did not happen.

So that leaves us with laws as they are, and not laws as the Framers wanted them not laws the way WE want them. The unfortunate reality is that the formation of a standing army, coupled with POTUS's role as CIC, means that * can attack Iran without needing any prior authorization from Congress.

And I realize that the constitutionality of the War Powers Act is questionable. However, WPA limits the ability of POTUS to engage in unauthorized military adventures. That's why it was written. If the courts should ever find it unconstitutional, then POTUS will have an even freer rein to wage war without it being declared by Congress
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. well, if Congress had the WILL to fix the Powers act, they could.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. will the military decline to play along with this psychopath..??
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. It's a very good question
I don't know the answer
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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. Unfortunately this is true
"Police Action". He is SUPPOSED To get congressional approval within 60 days, but when has this happened? Congress is SUPPPOSED to pull the rug out within 60 days if they don't like it, but then they would be "endangering our troops" so this would never happen either.

Big friggin hole in the fabric of the Constitution. How do you give the President the leeway to act immediately, but then be able to control the situation afterwards?

One good way to prevent this is to elect a President who is at least half competent, I would guess.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. HERE is the ACT----it is argued that is was one more power congress GAVE to the EXECTIVE Branch:

http://www.thecre.com/fedlaw/legal22/warpow.htm

The War Powers Act of 1973
Public Law 93-148
93rd Congress, H. J. Res. 542
November 7, 1973
Joint Resolution
Concerning the war powers of Congress and the President.

Resolved by the Senate and the House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SHORT TITLE

SECTION 1.
This joint resolution may be cited as the "War Powers Resolution".

PURPOSE AND POLICY
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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yes, but Congress is supposed to affirm or deny within 60 days...
I believe. However, as I said before, I doubt that they would ever deny after the fact, because that would "leave our troops in harms's way". Therefore as soon as any President starts a "police action" we are kind of stuck -- perhaps for a long time.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. It's a pisser, isn't it? eom
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. Shit. I can add this to my list. n/t
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. What list?
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. My "things I am scared of" list. n/t
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. You shouldn't fear the truth
I know it's not what you wanted to hear, but I believe one shouldn't fear the truth, even when it's unpleasant. I've learned the hard way how much more unpleasant it can be
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
15. kick
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yup...
:banghead:
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scarface2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
17. don't give 'em any money!!
end of militarism. shrink it so it can be drowned in a bathtub!!!
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SparkyMac Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. What we need is for Pelosi to inform Bush that
impeachment proceedings will begin the day after he launches an attack against Iran. Will that happen ? Do elephants roost in trees ?
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. You're somewhat right about that
and sometimes I wonder if someone might have already said that to him
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