I recently came across some Handspun Antique Hemp Nightgowns - I now know why Pot is illegal

[debbierlus]

My fiancee deals in antiques & I help him on the side. I went to an estate sale & purchased a bunch of handspun cloth nightgowns from the 1820s/30s era. The woman at the sale was telling me about the process of how the woman made the cloth from hemp & showing me the beautiful tiny details of their work.

There was not a hole in ANY of the fifteen I purchased. They were thick & sturdy. I brought them home & gently washed them with some oxyclean & put a little fabric softner in with them. They came out white & beautiful.

I was awe-struck. I have always known, intectually, that hemp was suppossed to make great clothing & it has a million & one other uses as well. But, it wasn't until I put my hands on these nearly 200 YEAR OLD pieces of fabric that I realized why industry would want to fight this plant. It lasts, if not forever, then for a couple of life-times or more. How on earth would they be able to generate profit, if we weren't wearing holes in our Chinese factory made clothing every two weeks? And, of course, this is a plant that anyone could grow, it is a WEED. If it was used as fuel source (as I was told it would be a excellent use for...), how would they ever profiteer once the average person figured out how to make hemp oil, or each local community had a grower who would supply the fuel. Where would the oil billionaires be?

It is absolutely CRIMINAl that this plant is illegal. How DARE they take away such a valuable resource that could provide such benefit for people & the earth, at a low cost?

I have always been for the full legalization of Marijuana. Now, I think I will be more then for it, I will become a advocate & activist. And, I am going to start carrying one of the nightgowns in my car for show & tell. I am convinced, if people saw what this would do first hand, the laws would be demanded to change.


On Edit: Here are the links to the images of one of the hemp nightgowns. One of a full shot & two close ups. Here yeah go:

[OffWithTheirHeads]

1. Very interesting

could you post a pic?

[debbierlus]

4. I don't have any photos right now, but I will get on it

:)

[comtec]

188. Space material!

Bear with me.
Many years ago I had a thought experiment, what would be the best things to take to mars.
We are looking to colonize far away (or even on the moon) we want to take as little as possible, that is as useful as possible.
As far as I can tell, hemp would be mandatory. Both varieties (at the time I thought there was just the one variety).
You want both for their uses. Also, I learned, that Hemp produces a measure times MORE Oxygen than any other plant on the plant.
That is if we want to re-bair the lungs of our planet a good first step would be to plant a rather large amount of Hemp!
In space your ability to get advanced drugs would be very limited, especially in the beginning. If you were able to grow the basics, most of what is needed would be grown from MJ.

So between these two things, you'd also want to have a constant amount growing IN the ship, for simple air recycling - the pleasant earthy smell would be an added bonus - because as animals we need that reminder of our home world, especially in the blackness of space.
Additionally, you would want to be able to make as fertile soil as possible.

For that reason I also figured Peanuts would also be a mandatory crop - considering all that can be made form the peanut, and the fact that it replenishes soil! When you are looking to colonize multi-taskers that use as little resource as possible are necessary! And peanuts and Hemp are two vital components. Both make oil that can be used for synthetics, and fuel, etc. Additionally peanuts can be eaten, and spun in a a wide variety of foods, such as coffee. (in all honesty the first settlers will not be able to afford land to spend on Coffee beans in the beginning, and peanut coffee is realistically all they can grow).

After these and such low-impact crops like garlic, onions (sandy soil/sand are wonderful for these plants I've heard), you also would want to bring soy beans because of the amazing things you can do with Soy - not just bean curd, but oil, and the like. Soy can be made into flour, which is healthier, and as a multi tasker, uses less space in transit, etc. However i do not know how much work is required to cultivate Soy, i do know it is so useful it's probably worth it.

Rice, while healthy, uses too much man power and water. As I understand the REAL reason for the increase of slaves in the US was because of the rice fields in the south, not for picking cotton, since rice is VERY labor intensive both planting and cultivating.

A reasonable argument can be made for bringing chickens into space because of the meat/eggs yield per kilo of grain, but imho if the soy crops are done right, the protein that our bodies need for muscle growth, etc can be maintained. I think it's probably unlikely that a pure vegan diet is healthy for small children. Being omnivores denying that part of our physiology may have negative effects in the long run. This is something that should be looked into honestly, but it is unlikely because of the vegan insistence that meat-free is the only way to be, any reasonable evidence will immediately be tossed aside. On the same hand, it is unlikely the MEAT-NOW people will accept the results for the same reason.

We have all become far too spoiled on variety, and while variety is good, we also need to take a harsher look at what we eat, and what we can stop eating, or eat less of, because of ecological impact.

The holes in the Ozone are healing because we stopped using the harmful chemicals that caused it. We have time to repair the problems with the polar icecaps! (amazingly enough that would require many volcanoes going off. The fine particulates reflect sunlight and cause the earth to cool. That would give her time to rebuild the needed ice reserves on shore IMHO.

If we made massive hemp fields, we could greatly increase the amount of O2 in the atmosphere! Oh well. I'm assuming that people with the power to do so would WANT to improve the lot of the rest of us. Oh well. Looks like we're all going down in flames :(

[Vinca]

2. It's a mystery why growing industrial hemp is banned in this country.

It's not as if you're going to smoke your clothing and get high. You probably hit the nail on the head with the observation of the quality of the hemp fabric in the clothes you found. Got to keep that cheap, poor quality, Chinese crap flowing into this country.

[debbierlus]

7. They don't care about people getting high, anyway

They have no problem with booze & cigarettes. That is just the reason they hide behind to suppress its use in commerical
enterprises.

[FREEWILL56]

61. So being it's made from an illegal plant can they arrest you and

charge you with wearing a controlled substance even though yours is around 200 years old?

[crikkett]

81. Thankfully, no.

hemp cloth is not a controlled substance and it is imported into the US today.

http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1643912-AA.shtml
dharma trading company does it.

[axollot]

118. NO - hemp made products are allowed in the US...

Just not allowed to be GROWN here.

smoking a fatty off hemp papers mate!
cheers
Sandy

[immoderate]

142. I have a couple of shirts made from hemp.

I bought them a few years ago. Ralph Lauren's by the way. The are a hemp-cotton blend. Not quite as soft or light as pure cotton, but they look good and wear well.

--IMM

[Greeby]

12. It's because you cannot patent a plant

So corporations can't make any money off these products

[havocmom]

48. Monsanto has a lot of grains patented now.

Dollars to donuts they are working on a hemp plant with one changed gene, then they can patent it AND sue the farm out from under anyone who ends up with a patented seed blowing off a truck and sprouting in a field.

[whistle]

136. That in and of itself is a crime against humanity, how can anyone be allowed to patent a seed?

...seeds belong to nature.

[flashl]

148. Agribusiness story ifrom Iraq ...

The Assault on Iraqi Agriculture --- U.S. Agribusiness Targets the Fertile Crescent

U.S. Policies --- GMOs and the Detrimental Effects of Order 81

After the so-called "transfer of sovereignty" in June 2004, when former Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) administrator L. Paul Bremer III left Baghdad, he left behind the 100 orders he enacted as head of the occupation authority in Iraq. Of Bremer's 100 Orders, Order 81 contains the edicts (paragraphs 51 - 79) pertinent to agriculture. Order 81, while claiming otherwise, will actually reduce biodiversity and thus lead to a monoculture susceptible to disease, increase chemical use, and pave the way for Genetically Modified Organisms ("GMOs") to dominate food production in Iraq.

In fact, Order 81 was written to promote the patenting of seeds and the sale of GMOs. Before the U.S. illegally invaded and occupied Iraq, it was not legal to patent seeds. Now, under U.S. decree, to patent varieties of seed, all that is necessary is to be the first to "describe" or "characterize" them. Even though technically, the Iraqi farmer is not being stopped from saving and sharing seed from traditional crops at this time, nevertheless there is now also nothing stopping Monsanto, Cargill, Dow, Syngenta, Bayer and other multinationals from "describing" or "characterizing" those traditional seeds, and thereby patenting those seeds in the future. And, when they do, the Iraqi farmer then will be prohibited from saving and sharing those seeds that have been passed down from generations, and will have to buy them from "the company store," "trapped into a high-cost cash crop economy from which he will find it impossible to escape."

[donsu]

151. it's not a mystery - Ford & the new oil barons stopped it

back when Ford was just starting to get big. they wanted to sell their gas. Ford was a neo con.

[Duval]

156. Also, Hearst had something to do with it!

Think paper/timber industry.

[donsu]

160. yes, true

nt

[zabet]

3. Hemp hemp hooray!!!

Should not be illegal.

[FREEWILL56]

58. Give me a HIGH 5.

[hlthe2b]

5. I've always pictured the canvass- like hemp fabrics I've seen

made into shoes and bags and the like.

Is this fabric more cotton-like? For a nightgown, I would think it must have some ability to "soften up" a bit? Tell us more. What are you planning to do with these?

[debbierlus]

11. They aren't quite as soft as cotton, but they aren't stiff at all

More like a raw cotton...I think if I soaked them again, they would soften up even more. I will go take a picture.

[hlthe2b]

13. cool... I'll look for it

[venuspluto]

153. Fabric softness of plant fibers

It's my understanding that the more a pure hemp garment is washed and worn, the softer it will get. This is true of all "bast fibers" (fibers collected from the inner barks of plant-stems, other examples being flax AKA linen and rhamie). One way that hemp cultivators make raw hemp fiber less coarse is to harvest their hemp plants earlier, and this will yield a more linen-like fabric. While I'm sure such fabric will last a good long time also, I don't know if this early-harvested hemp fiber would have a shorter wash-and-wear life than mature-harvested hemp fiber.

[eppur_se_muova]

176. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[silverweb]

19. Hemp fabrics are wonderful.

I sent for some swatches once and was blown away by how gorgeous they were.

Pure hemp can be any weight and texture, depending on how it's woven.

Hemp/Organic cotton is as soft and absorbant as the finest cotton you'll ever find.

Hemp/silk makes a gorgeous, light, satiny fabric that would do a wedding gown justice.

Here are a couple of my favorite hemp fabric sites:
http://www.hemptraders.com/
http://www.aurorasilk.com/index.html
http://www.rawganique.com/index.htm

My wardrobe is very simple and whenever I need a new item, I try to find it in hemp. Hemp clothing choices are still limited and expensive, so eventually I want to just buy fabric and have some items made to fit. They'll outlive me, for sure.

[Judi Lynn]

39. Thanks for the links, silverweb, and your comments.

LOVE this thread, after being very curious about hemp clothing for awhile.

Have loved tensel for ages!

Thanks to you, and debbierlus.

[silverweb]

76. You're welcome!

I hope you are able to find some hemp fabrics/clothing you absolutely love.

:hi:

[kimmylavin]

42. Thanks for those links!

And they have knitting yarn!
Think I just found my next project... :)

[silverweb]

78. You're very welcome!

Let us know how your hemp knitting project comes out! :)

[wovenpaint]

85. Thanks for the links!!!!

these are great!
:hi:

[silverweb]

105. You're most welcome.

Enjoy!

:hi:

[shanti]

120. thanks

for posting the links! i'm kind of lucky being here in norcal. two star dog has an outlet in berkeley, and i've gotten several items of clothing from them in the past. a black hemp jacket was the workhorse of my wardrobe until i retired it from service:) hemp is a bit like linen, but softer. i like linen a lot too, it's easier to find and cheaper. if hemp was widely and (more cheaply) available, i'd buy a lot more of it!

[silverweb]

127. You sure are lucky.

Hopefully, I'll end up there myself in a few years.

In the meantime, though, I don't see NorCal often and it seems that's where most of the cool hemp stores are. :D

[venuspluto]

155. Thanks for these links

Everybody should have at least one pair of hemp clothes for when Peak Oil hits us.

[smoogatz]

6. Are they haunted?

:hide:

[debbierlus]

8. I don't know, & living in a 140 year old house across from a cemetary...

I wouldn't be able to tell where the ghosts came from, if they were....

:rofl:

[smoogatz]

10. Wow.

The trifecta. Nice.

[hootinholler]

22. As an old house nut...

I lived in a circa 1850 Federal. My niece was visiting and asked me if I thought anyone ever died in the house and I said "think about it, people back then weren't born and usually didn't die in hospitals."

The property was on a hill, so there was a short door to the basement at street level. I had a little girl about 6 ask me about the witches that lived there :D She was so cute.

-Hoot (who has never recognized a ghost as such if he has seen one)

[venuspluto]

154. Old houses

I've heard that houses built prior to the 1890's have a difficult time accommodating modern heating, plumbing, and electricity systems. The oldest building in which I ever lived dated back to 1911.

[mark414]

9. that's exactly why they made it illegal - Dupont and Dow can hold much of the blame

they lobbied heavily in the early part of the 20th century as nylon rope had just been invented and neither wanted to have to compete with the cheaper and more durable hemp; so they used the marijuana aspect of it all (apples and oranges) to justify it and a lot of cash to get the Congress to go for it.

it was a rousing success

[dougolat]

181. A really good history of that

is at  http://www.gametec.com/hemp/Thirties.wd6.html     and
the physical difference between growing for fiber/seed
production and THC is like the difference between Alaskan sled
dogs and Chihuahuas!   The more organic nature of hemp-derived
products (yes, even plastics!) vs. petroleum products would
have tremendous impact on one big part of our pollution
problems!   

[Bonobo]

14. Kicked and Recomended. I was just saying that in this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3044839&mesg_id=3045022

[Mojorabbit]

15. I hope you are

putting them up on ebay. I love vintage nightgowns.

[williesgirl]

16. We need to outlaw ALL campaign contributions and go to sensible public financing NOW. It'll end all

this crap once and for all. The corporations would actually have to stand our their own merit and EARN the right to our hard-earned dollars. Yet, you never hear anyone advocating this anymore????????? rec'd

[dickbearton]

49. Exactly right. K&R.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

109. You don't mean the free market do you?

Heaven forbid that our glorious corporations would actually have to compete in a free market subject to the laws of Adam Smith instead of the laws perpetrated by campaign contributions. They would be in deeeeeeeeep do do.

[spacelady]

17. We musn't forget the timber industry - they don't like hemp

because it can be used to make high-quality paper and construction materials.

[IDemo]

18. Outlawing hemp is un-American

The U.S.S. Constitution , launched in 1797, was outfitted with 8 miles of running and 6.6 miles of standing rigging—14.6 miles of hemp tarred cordage that carried Old Ironsides through 30 battles at sea without a defeat.

George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both grew hemp . Ben Franklin owned a mill that made hemp paper. Jefferson drafted the Declaration of Independence on hemp paper.

[hobbit709]

64. The Declaration of Independence was printed on hemp paper.

[sailor65]

20. I have a bunch of hemp shirts

and they hold up great, are easy to find and not expensive at all.

[silverweb]

24. Where do you get them?

I'm always looking for new sources for reasonably priced hemp clothing. :)

[sailor65]

34. Lately,

I've been going to REI. I love the way the hemp stuff feels and wears. I'v gotten button-downs and tees in the last couple of months.

The only problem is the online store, like our local store, uses seasonal availability, so as winter approaches you typically have to wait until spring for the stuff to reappear.

I should have been more specific, too. The shirts I have from them are 60/40 hemp/organic cotton. With cool bamboo buttons! :-)


These are on clearance right now for season end.....try and get some, they're uber-comfy and dirt cheap.
http://www.rei.com/product/746927

On edit; it looks like only the real big sizes are left. Watch in the spring for all the new stuff to come out. :-(

[silverweb]

79. Fantastic!

There's a store only a few miles from me! Guess where I'm going after payday? :D

[sailor65]

101. I hope yours still has some

Mine have pretty much flushed out for the year, but I got quite a few so I'm good.

[silverweb]

103. It'll be okay.

Even if they don't have much left, I can at least try a few things on and get an idea how their sizes run... then order on line!

[Warren DeMontague]

38. The operative words being "reasonably priced".

I'll plug a local business, here, but their stuff is pricey:

http://www.hempandchocolat.com/

[silverweb]

82. Thanks for the link!

They've got some lovely items, if a bit on the steep side. Not likely I'll be in that area any time soon, but I'm not averse to ordering on line. :)

[debbierlus]

21. Okay, everyone, I put up the images in the original post for those who were curious to see

I am glad people find it as interesting as I do....This is just like Show & Tell!

[Rosemary2205]

23. K&R One the most insightful posts I've ever read on DU.

Thanks

:)

[The Straight Story]

25. I am with you

K&R

[InvisibleTouch]

26. That's very cool - thanks for the pics & info!

I suspect you're exactly right about why hemp is banned. Has nothing to do with people getting high (industrial hemp isn't the same plant as the pot plant anyway), but with the need to propagate our throwaway society. Most everything is designed these days with a planned obsolescence - whether it's appliances that break as soon as their warranty runs out, or computer programs that "have to be" replaced with the latest versions every few months. And we wonder why the world is running out of resources.

[rabies1]

147. So, since hemp clothes last forever,this could threaten the garment industry?

With no need to replace clothes, we can keep wearing and wearing them,
making 'fashion' & 'fashion trends' unnecessary.
Is there a website petition I could go to & sign for legalizing hemp?

Do you think there's any way hemp could be used in creating make-up?? (- being sarcastic here.)

[gtar100]

173. Why, yes...

Hemptons Cosmetic

[SecularMotion]

27. Great find!

Thank you for sharing. Do mind if I ask how much you paid?

[Bjorn Against]

28. Bingo!

Many people think hemp is illegal because of its relationship to marijuana, in reality it is the opposite marijuana is illegal because of hemp. As you point out hemp poses serious competition to some big industries textiles is one, but there are others as well. The timber industry and oil industry are big ones as well. Hemp is an incredibly useful plant that can not be patented. It also doesn't need a lot of chemicals such as pesticides to grow. How do you think Monsanto likes that? Cotton is not nearly as good of a fabric as hemp is and it certainly is not as environmentally friendly, but cotton is more profitable. It is all about the bottom line.

[Kajsa]

29. They are great!

Where could I find one?

Thanks so much for sharing these photos.

;-)

[Warpy]

30. Those are beautiful. I've tried spinning hemp

and mostly came up with twine. It seems to need a slightly acid wash and the freezing/thawing treatment linen garments need in order to make them wearable.

Hemp is illegal mostly because of the wood pulp industry. Hemp makes superior paper at a far lower financial and environmental cost. A lot of people would be out of work were hemp to be commercially cultivated again.

Still, it's an idea whose time has come.

[NoGodsNoMasters]

130. Exactly!

And hemp grows faster than trees, and can produce more paper in the same space. Unfortunately, big business would rather destroy our forests. Criminal.

[venuspluto]

167. Two technological developments sealed hemp's fate

1) A process was invented in which superior paper could be made cheaply from hemp hurds, or the innermost woody portion of the hemp plant's stem. Prior to this, hemp paper was made from hemp fiber (from the inner bark) much as hemp textiles were. Such fiber-paper is ideal for historical and cultural archives because of its very long life.

2) An American inventor of German descent invented a hemp decorticating (bark-removing) machine so that paper could be economically made from hemp rather than trees. (I think his name was Schlicten, but I'm not sure, so don't quote me.) This inventor remembered all too well how his native Germany's beautiful forests were mowed down to sate the German timber industry's appetite.

[Beetwasher]

31. Great Post! FYI, Hemp WAS Originally Made Illegal Because of the WOOD PULP INDUSTRY

They were threatened by the superior quality, cheap pulp that hemp provided for paper. The paper was better quality and WAY cheaper, so they bankrolled the "reefer madness" campaign and paid lobbyists to pass legislation to outlaw "marijuana". They accomplished this through a bait and switch and a terror campaign. They purposely did NOT use the more well known name of "hemp" in order to confuse people who knew that value of that plant. At that time hardly anyone called the plant "marijuana". This was in the early part of the 20th cent., around 1919 I think, though not positive. When the equivalent organization of the AMA at that time found out that "marijuana" (which they only belatedly realized was actually "hemp") was made illegal, they protested LOUDLY to congress that the plant should NOT be illegal because of it's numerous medical benefits that it was being used for at the time. However, the wood pulp's bait and switch worked and it was too late.

Unfortunately the hemp farmers were not organized like the wood pulp/timber industry, it was much more of an independent/cottage industry with local suppliers all over the country since it grew everywhere, so they were not nearly as well funded as the wood/pulp industry and could not fight the campaign effectively.

[Chulanowa]

86. And the reason they said "marijuana" was to pull on racism

White people didn't smoke "marijuana" - only the lazy mexicans and violent negros smoked that stuff! Why, if we got rid of teh mexican devil-herb, those spics would double in productivity and all our white wimmins would be safe again!

Or something to that effect.

[Lorien]

88. Hemp and Marijuana are NOT the same thing:

Industrial hemp is an incredible resource. Hemp is harvested for its fibers for hemp clothing and seeds for hemp oil. With a relatively short growth cycle of 100-120 days, it is an efficient and economical crop for farmers to grow, however, industrial hemp cannot be commercially grown in the United States because it is erroneously confounded with marijuana. In fact, industrial hemp and marijuana are different breeds of Cannabis sativa. Smoking large amounts of hemp flowers can produce a headache but not a high.

The reemergence of hemp is slowly but steadily progressing within the United States. Due to the similar leaf shape, hemp is frequently confused with marijuana. Although both plants are from the species cannabis sativa, hemp contains virtually no THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol) (less than .3%), the active ingredient in marijuana. Industrial hemp has no illicit uses, it is the equivalent of non-alcoholic beer.

http://www.hemp.com/?002,000,0012,

[Beetwasher]

95. But They Were BOTH Made Illegal

At the same time. Cannabis Sativa was made illegal, and therefore so was hemp. The Pulp industry purposely confused them both in order to do this.

[Lorien]

98. Yes, I am quite aware of that

but your post makes absolutely no distinction between the two, just as lawmakers have purposely avoided making a distinction between the two species of cannabis. I always say it's a bit like mushrooms; there are some species that you can buy at the grocery, there are others that are illegal to possess. One does not have to make all species of cannabis legal to legalize industrial hemp. It really is a case of apples and oranges.

[Beetwasher]

100. Sure I Did

"The paper was better quality and WAY cheaper, so they bankrolled the "reefer madness" campaign and paid lobbyists to pass legislation to outlaw "marijuana". They accomplished this through a bait and switch and a terror campaign. They purposely did NOT use the more well known name of "hemp" in order to confuse people who knew that value of that plant."

Perhaps I was not as clear as I could be, but that was the gist of what I was getting at. They used a bait and switch, scaring people with "marijuana" because they wanted to outlaw the more well known "hemp". They outlawed ALL Cannabis in order to outlaw "hemp".

[diane in sf]

89. William Randolph Hearst owned a lot of timber as well as his papers that

he used to push the refer madness meme.

[Uncle Joe]

32. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread and pretty photos of your hemp nightgowns, debbierlus.:thumbsup:

[catmandu57]

33. During WWII here

They grew hemp everywhere for the war, the hemp grew everywhere, along side the railroad tracks and every country road. This continued up to the eighties when st. ronnie supercharged the drug war, there was an eradication program that cleaned out the old fields and roadsides, they can't keep it from growing along the tracks, it's about the only place to find it growing wild here now.
This place used to be famous for the wild hemp pickers would show up every fall and the local constabulary and farmers would trap and bust them for marijuana possession even though it was only hemp.

[madrchsod]

45. same here where i live

people used to pick it and sell it..we called it ditch weed.

[catmandu57]

157. Thats it

Ditchweed, it still springs up by the tracks, but with all the johnny marijuana seeds out here now unless the plant is twelve feet tall it might be something else.:-)

[downindixie]

35. The first diesel engine was designed to run on hemp oil

[eppur_se_muova]

106. Actually, I believe it was peanut oil ... but it was sure as hell BIOdiesel!

(The Diesel engine displayed at the 1900 Paris Exhibition was fueled with peanut oil.)

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel
This engine stood as an example of Diesel's vision because it was powered by peanut oil — a biofuel, though not biodiesel, since it was not transesterified. He believed that the utilization of biomass fuel was the real future of his engine. In a 1912 speech Diesel said, "the use of vegetable oils for engine fuels may seem insignificant today but such oils may become, in the course of time, as important as petroleum and the coal-tar products of the present time.".<10>

[HughBeaumont]

36. That's called "no repeat business" . . . on ALL fronts.

Businesses aren't IN business to make things that LAST.

I mean, if you had STRONG clothing, there'd be no need to return to Penney's or MalWart for more should it get torn or frayed for whatever reason like cheap-fiber shirts do.

Marijuana has very little addictive elements in it. Now how would good Republican tobacco barons profit from THAT? They're not in the business of keeping you relaxed . . . they're in the business of keeping you COMING BACK regularly. I mean, let's face it: a person doesn't smoke 15-30 joints a day because there's no need. I mean, there's no need to smoke 15-30 cigarettes a day, but you do anyway. Where would the profit margin be?

Not to mention you'd be stepping on the toes of Big Oil, Big Paper, Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, etc, etc, etc. You wouldn't want to be . . . BAD FOR BUSINESS, do you?

[bluerum]

47. Well, we could always blow things up when big bidness needs an influx

of our $$$'s.

Bombing for bidness, that is the bush creed.

[HughBeaumont]

90. That's the Neo-Con Creed:

"There's ALWAYS money for war, even if you don't have it! War is profitable. Helping people . . . well . . . isn't. Tough toenails for you peasants, I guess."

[eppur_se_muova]

108. It's "The Man in the White Suit" ... for REAL!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044876/

The unassuming, nebbishy inventor Sidney Stratton creates a miraculous fabric that will never be dirty or worn out. Clearly he can make a fortune selling clothes made of the material, but may cause a crisis in the process. After all, once someone buys one of his suits they won't ever have to fix them or buy another one, and the clothing industry will collapse overnight. Nevertheless, Sidney is determined to put his invention on the market, forcing the clothing factory bigwigs to resort to more desperate measures... Written by rmlohner

[Warren DeMontague]

37. I've got some hemp shirts. They last FOREVER.

Agreed, great stuff.

And beyond that, the bottom line is, pot should be legal, regulated, and taxed. People say "Ah, you just want industrial hemp legalized because you want pot legalized"- one, they're not the same thing, but two, you're damn right- they BOTH should be legal.

[HughBeaumont]

43. Sadly, it won't be.

There'd be no need for middlemen.

Oh, you would still have mass-produced hemp clothing based on the fact working people aren't going to learn how to use a machine to make their own clothes. In that case, a middleman would be needed.

Not so much for the oil, food and smoking. The fuel part would be mostly localized and anyone could cultivate marijuana in their house if needs be for smoking and cooking. There'd be no need for entire rural counties of tobacco fields (and you can't eat tobacco), thus no tobacco or oil barons.

[Window]

40. Great post!

Extremely enlightening. The pics are beautiful.

Thanks for sharing.



Peace:thumbsup:

[Neecy]

41. I make soap with hemp oil...

And the quality is amazing. It's a very gentle moisturizer for your skin. I add a little tea tree essential oil and it's a mild, healing bar. There are a million good uses for hemp.

[knitter4democracy]

71. Ooh, I'll bet that's great soap.

The stuff I've used with hemp oil in it was very moisturizing. :)

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

107. I make lotions with it!

The antioxidants are terrific for skin!

[OffWithTheirHeads]

112. So post a link! I think you could sell some here

nt

[Neecy]

126. okay...

I'm making it now for the holidays, and I can always make more. Hemp soap is really terrific, and the Tea Tree essential oil is a nice addition. I put it in the DU Marketplace:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=213x4226

[kimmylavin]

44. Wow.

That fabric is beautiful.
And 200 years old???
Amazing.

As to the marijuana aspects of your post... you're absolutely right. :)

[debbierlus]

46. It is so incredible...of course, we must give hats off to the ladies

Created by hand....

Such an artform

:)

[knitter4democracy]

72. Chances are, some men were involved.

Braking was usually done by men, as was the hetchelling. It took some strength to do those. :)

[Zhade]

50. Textiles, cloth, four times as much paper per acre, fuel oil, food source (seeds)...

Hemp has countless physical uses, while its cousin marijuana has countless medicinal uses (if anyone says otherwise, they are completely clueless on the huge body of scientific studies backing this fact up).

FREE THE COUSINS!

[Froward69]

51. The industries that work

it keep Hemp illegal are (no particular order)
OIL
Wood
Cotton
Pharmaceuticals
Tobacco
Alcohol
Chemicals
add to this list if I have forgotten any.
All of these industries could adapt or die if Hemp were made legal.
shame that is the case. but true.
I wonder how many ideas we DUer's could come up with, to alleviate the economic disturbance these industries would suffer?

oh yeah, Great post!!!

[tekisui]

159. Prison Industrial Complex.

[piesRsquare]

52. Beautiful!

Thanks for your great post--and for sharing the photos!

[hfojvt]

53. I don't believe that.

Except for kids, we mostly buy clothing to get the latest style, to get brighter colors, and to get clothes that don't have stains in them (this may just be me, because I work in factories and janitorially, and am not very good at washing). Plus, even us adults grow out of them as we get fatter (or sometimes thinner).

[Johnny Noshoes]

138. "we mostly buy clothing to get the latest style, to get brighter colors"

That's the advertising industry creating false needs and desires - none of us are immune to such manipulations just know that's what's happening to you when you think you need the latest bright shiny new thing.

[knitter4democracy]

145. Hemp linen is great at shedding stains and dirt.

That's one reason why it was used as clothing for thousands of years in Europe--it cleans up beautifully.

You're right that it doesn't take dye that great, though. It can't get the super-saturated look of cotton, but it wears longer and cleans easier than cotton, so it's a tradeoff.

[formercia]

54. Another source of Hemp fabric:

http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1643912-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric.html

[Bright Eyes]

55. Don't forget about paper.

Hemp makes a VERY cheap source of paper.

DuPont was one of the first to call for outlawing hemp.

[alfredo]

57. Randolph Hurst owned a paper mill and forestland. Hemp was a threat

to his bottom line.

[Blue Belle]

91. Yep... the Constitution was written on Hemp paper.

Declaration of Independence too. A guy gave a presentation on hemp in my media and environment class the other day... and he said that hemp bares no resemblance to its cousin marijuana, and that it would be the number one cash crop if it were legalized. It's just that the logging industry and other farming industry keeps it down.

[CrispyQ]

164. So, instead of legalizing hemp we'll chop down all our forests.

:banghead:

[Blue Belle]

165. pretty much....

makes sense, right?

The other big lobby that has kept hemp down is the chemical lobby. Hemp has no use for pesticides because bugs won't bother it.

I've spent the majority of this week with the phrase, "If only..." starting every thought.

[Friday]

56. Thanks

This is awesome. The ignorance when it comes to this great plant is mind boggling.
I live in Ca and received an email from VoteHemp about an industrial hemp bill in my state assembly so wrote a letter to my assembly woman. She wrote back to me and said marijuana is a gateway drug. Stupid. I have been trying to get her out of office ever since.

[spacelady]

59. Big Welcome to you, jimnkara! With the body of evidence and

facts about the benefits of this wonder plant called hemp, I just don't know how our representatives can continue to stick their fingers in their ears and sing LALALALALA. Oh yeah - Big Corporate Money. Despicable.

[Friday]

60. Thank you

Thanks for the welcome. I lurk around here a lot but am still learning politics so don't post much.
MJ/Hemp happens to be an interest of mine =). It's good to see that more people are learning the truth and not listening to all the BS the govt feeds them.

[venuspluto]

169. I'm relatively new, too

But people around here seem pretty well aware that most of what the gov./MSM feeds the populace is BS.

[Tab]

62. With all due respect

I don't think it's the clothing industry blocking this stuff. They aren't looking 50 years into the future, and you can always "modernize" your designs. It's the religious fundies blocking it. Forget walking, looking, or quacking like a duck, if it remotely even smells like a duck it's the weed from hell.

I don't have hemp stuff myself, but what I've seen is rough but warm, coarse but heavy. Not the perfect material for everything, but probably great for many occasions. However, since we can't differentiate between hemp grown for fabric and hemp grown for smoking, all hemp is bad. C'est la vie.

[SteveM]

68. Respectfully, it isn't the religions fundies...

The chief passion behind the dominance of the Far Right is an enduring hatred for the counter culture of the 60s. While the religious right has supported this prohibition, the "original hatred" stems from the highly extremist social philosophy of far-rights like Krauthammer, Bennett, etc. who see moral decay spewing forth from liberals, but these guys are not particularly religious. They just know who to bring on board.

And of course the icon of the 60s is a pot leaf.

Study enough of the rhetoric and ideology of the Far Right and you will see that the reason for the WOD is social control (and not the stale, dumb argument used by many: "it's the money"). The price of pot has remained as rigid as pork belly futures, and the prices of heroin and cocaine have fallen to less than half of what they were some 20 years ago. But, hey, smirking economic determinists have never understood the Far Right. The emphasis of the WOD, at any rate, has always been on pot because of the iconic image and hateful stereotypes the Right has successfully attached to the counter culture. There are temporal exceptions, most notably the scare over "crack," but the counter culture the Right despises is a bigger outlook than standard "containment" of minorities in certain geographic sites. The result has been a raft of laws which curtail "search & seizure," "due process," "habeus corpus," and other protections of the Constitution. From here, you get the Patriot Acts. The Far Right alway plans way in advance and that beats any argument about money or religion.

[patrice]

132. They fear Pot more than the harder drugs because, though it isn't

physically addictive, that makes it more attractive to a wider spectrum of social-economic classes. Hence, you have red-neck pot smokers. People can enjoy it and not fuck up their lives. That means the alternative perspective getting high brings can be experienced by more people. Alternative anything is a threat to the status quo, which very much depends upon people accepting a limited set of values.

[Tab]

170. I bet if we told them

that if we get high enough we'll vote for them for office, and won't care what they do when they get there.

They might just go for it.

[patrice]

171. I'll bet you're right about that!!

But, I don't know for sure, however I have been told by someone close to me that pot makes them care MORE, not less about things, and this is one of the things that controls his/her use. Probably a difference in chemistry. But I think it is a difference that is not as uncommon as certain myth makers would have us believe, hence the prohibition.

[Bennyboy]

63. Hemp versus cotton

Compared to Cotton:

-Environmentally, hemp is a safer crop to grow than cotton. Cotton is a soil-damaging crop and needs a great deal of fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides.

-Cotton crops in the USA occupy 1% of the country’s farmland but use 50% of all pesticides.

-1 acre of hemp will produce as much as 2-3 acres of cotton.

-Hemp is 4 times warmer than cotton, 4 times more water absorbent, has 3 times the tensile strength of cotton. It is also many times more durable and is flame retardant.

-Many high fashion clothing manufacturers have produced clothes and footwear made with hemp. Some of these include: Nike, Converse, Armani, Patagonia, Polo Ralph Lauren, Oscar de la Renta and many more.

-Hemp fabrics were once far more expensive than cotton and other fabrics due to limited supply, but increased demand and availability in recent years have lowered the price considerably.

-Hemp breathes well and wicks moisture away from the body better than cotton.

-Hemptown (Canada’s largest hemp t-shirt supplier) asserts that selecting their hemp/cotton blended t-shirt over an all-cotton t-shirt saves the environment 744 gallons of water. This company has recently been funded by Canada’s National Research Council to create an enzyme that will make hemp fibres as soft as cotton.



Hemp FACTS http://www.hempfarm.org/Papers/Hemp_Facts.html

[eppur_se_muova]

102. What about water? Cotton is one of the world's biggest consumers of water.

http://www.panda.org/about_wwf/what_we_do/policy/agriculture_environment/commodities/cotton/environmental_impacts/water_use/index.cfm

Hemp is growing wild in Afgahnistan, while farmers in (former Soviet) Central Asia have virtually destroyed the Aral Sea to irrigate cotton.

[pansypoo53219]

113. gotta love the cotton lobby then.

i have some old nighties. might be hemp. also a lot of old embroidered pillowcases, some am sure are hemp rather than cotton(the better ones). i don't wear nighties tho. one seems more for a child or way more petite, cause the arms were so tight. amazing detail. but they didn't have teevee or the puter.

[Bennyboy]

114. HEMP can save the world!

In the 1930s the Ford Motor Company also saw a future in biomass fuels. Ford operated a successful biomass conversion plant, that included hemp, at their Iron Mountain facility in Michigan. Ford engineers extracted methanol, charcoal fuel, tar, pitch, ethyl-acetate and creosote. All fundamental ingredients for modern industry and now supplied by oil-related industries.<2>

The difference is that the vegetable source is renewable, cheap and clean, and the petroleum or coal sources are limited, expensive and dirty. By volume, 30% of the hemp seed contains oil suitable for high-grade diesel fuel as well as aircraft engine and precision machine oil.

Henry Ford's experiments with methanol promised cheap, readily renewable fuel. And if you think methanol means compromise, you should know that many modern race cars run on methanol.

About the time Ford was making biomass methanol, a mechanical device<3> to strip the outer fibers of the hemp plant appeared on the market. These machines could turn hemp into paper and fabrics<4> quickly and cheaply. Hemp paper is superior to wood paper. The first two drafts of the U.S. constitution were written on hemp paper. The final draft is on animal skin. Hemp paper contains no dioxin, or other toxic residue, and a single acre of hemp can produce the same amount of paper as four acres of trees.<5> The trees take 20 years to harvest and hemp takes a single season. In warm climates hemp can be harvested two even three times a year. It also grows in bad soil and restores the nutrients.

Hemp fiber-stripping machines were bad news to the Hearst paper manufacturing division, and a host of other natural resource firms. Coincidentally, the DuPont Chemical Company had, in 1937, been granted a patent on a sulfuric acid process to make paper from wood pulp. At the time DuPont predicted their sulfuric acid process would account for 80% of their business for the next 50 years.

Hemp, once the mainstay of American agriculture, became a threat to a handful of corporate giants. To stifle the commercial threat that hemp posed to timber interests, William Randolph Hearst began referring to hemp in his newspapers, by its Spanish name, "marijuana." This did two things: it associated the plant with Mexicans and played on racist fears, and it misled the public into thinking that marijuana and hemp were different plants.

Nobody was afraid of hemp--it had been cultivated and processed into usable goods, and consumed as medicine, and burned in oil lamps, for hundreds of years. But after a campaign to discredit hemp in the Hearst newspapers, Americans became afraid of something called marijuana.

By 1937, the Marijuana Tax Act was passed which marked the beginning of the end of the hemp industry. In 1938, Popular Mechanics ran an article about marijuana called, "New Billion Dollar Crop."<6> It was the first time the words "billion dollar" were used to describe a U.S. agricultural product. Popular Mechanics said,


. . . a machine has been invented which solves a problem more than 6,000 years old. . . .
The machine . . . is designed for removing the fiber-bearing cortex from the rest of the stalk, making hemp fiber available for use without a prohibitive amount of human labor.

Hemp is the standard fiber of the world. It has great tensile strength and durability. It is used to produce more than 5,000 textile products ranging from rope, to fine laces, and the woody "hurds" remaining after the fiber has been removed, contain more than seventy-seven per cent cellulose, and can be used to produce more than 25,000 products ranging from dynamite to cellophane.

Well since the Popular Mechanics article appeared over half a century ago, many more applications have come to light. Back in 1935, more than 58,000 tons of marijuana seed were used just to make paint and varnish (all non-toxic, by the way). When marijuana was banned, these safe paints and varnishes were replaced by paints made with toxic petro-chemicals. In the 1930s no one knew about poisoned rivers or deadly land-fills or children dying from chemicals in house paint. People did know something about hemp back then, because the plant and its products were so common.

http://www.ratical.org/renewables/hempHDRT.html

[eppur_se_muova]

116. I would like to get hold of that 1948 PM article ...

will go a-Googlin' later.

[Bennyboy]

140. Popular Mechanics article 1938

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/popmech1.htm

[eppur_se_muova]

175. Thankee kindly! nt

[Tumbulu]

129. Don't blame cotton for the way modern agriculture treats it

Cotton grows where nothing else will grow. Cotton is blamed for ruining soil, but it is only because it is grown on soil that nothing else will grow on. Cotton does not need fertilizers, herbicides or insecticides, just like hemp does not need them. But in modern times they both get them. Look and see how much of that hemp is organic. Usually they use fertilizers and herbicides in hemp production. Just because crops do not need them, that does not mean they are not getting them.

Cotton does not use much water compared to other irrigated crops; however for taxpayers to provide subsidized water for a crop of such low value per acre is ridiculous. For example the federal government supplies water in the San Joaquin Valley of California for a cost of about $75/acre foot to the taxpayer and $30 for the farmer. It takes 3 acre feet per acre to grow the cotton. The profit on the cotton may be $100/acre at the most. So, why are taxpayers giving these farmers $225/acre so they can make a profit of $100? Oranges or vegetables may yield profits of $500-$1000/acre. This is perhaps justifiable. Why in the world.....? My theory is that the ag chem industry is funded by the farm programs' crop subsidies. If the cotton is not growing they don't make all these profits on chemicals. The total amount of money given to farmers in the farm bill for cotton turns out to be the exact total of the cost of ag chemicals on cotton. No cheap water, no cheap crop that is subsidized enough to buy lots of chemicals. It is not the cotton plant that needs it, it is the bottom line of the ag chemical companies.

There are plenty of cotton growing regions that are not irrigated as they have sufficient summer rains to produce a crop of cotton.

The cotton fiber is very fine and it's uses are ideal for temporary items like clothing worn next to the skin that is meant to last for ten years or less. Flax and hemp are bast fibers whose preparations are costly but absolutely worth it for producing textiles that will last for hundreds of years. Flax and hemp are very similar, however hemp can be coarser.

One fiber is not better than another. Each has it's own uses. All crops have been spoiled by the ag chem industry. Even hemp. It may have less residue of insecticides, but fertilizers and herbicides are not good for the environment either.

Lets grow everything in a sustainable way and use every fiber to it's best advantage.

Thanks for the photos of the gowns that allow us appreciate the vast textile history we all share.

[TheMadMonk]

133. So close and yet so far.

Cotton can't be "ecconomically" mono-cultured without the application of an enormous quantity of chemicals. Particularly pesticides. FULL STOP!

Cotton may well grow "anywhere", but to get nice pristine bolls and long fibers suitable for machine processing, either the plants have to be well separated, because if the plants are close together, or even intertwined as is standard practice, infestations of pests will spread to every plant. And the close packing of the plants makes irrigation far more necessary since the plants can't spread out their roots to take advantage

Mary Jane on the other hand a) produces linear fibers, totally unlike the tangles fibers of a cotton boll, throughout the entire plant. A plant can be chomped to shreds by pests ans provided it remains standing at all it can still produces quality fiber; and b) it sneers at pests anyway, because it evolved to mono-culture, (or it has been mono-cultured for long enough that evolution has tamed MJ's pest species.) I suspect habit has a good deal to do with the continued used of over irrigation and fertilisation. MJ's tolerance to both means there is no indicator to say enough is enough.


Cotton may well grow with nothing but water and something to anchor itself to, but not as a viable machine havestable and processable, commercial, bulk fiber crop. Not without close packing (which requires more water per square meter); pesticides to keep insect infestations from happening; and added nutrients to maximise the per plant productivity. Harvested cotton represents a tiny fraction of even the most productive plant. Yield per acre is everything.

As for "can grow without irrigation", think about where it IS grown commercially in the Americas. And think about what the geographic and hydrographic conditions were when cotton growing was established. The Carribean with it's huge rainfalls, and the "good old South" with the grand old Mississippi flanked by swamps and flood plains. Plenty of water again. Fertile flood plains of course go to cash crops, and the cotton grows on the verges of worthless swampland. (who cares about a few niggers taking sick of malaria). Then we figure out how to drain the swamps and turn it into productive land. And the "worthless" criterion for cotton growing switches from "too soggy" to "nutrient challenged" and irrigation comes into play. There are a whole raft of interconnected factors: slaves; the jenny; land reclamation; inertia; and many more, which over the years served to keep cotton going. And now in many many areas, only publicly funded "life support" maintains it viability at all.

Cotton grows best "naturally" in a fairly specific type of worthless soil. Hemp on the other hand can cope with both a very wide range of both nutrient AND moisture levels. As it becomes more and more clear that agricultural runoff is to blame for a good many environmental woes, and being Green is no longer just for loony fringe dwellers the pressure to limit the use of artificial soil additives is becoming significant.

Cotton is dead for everything but niche applications, the moment a viable decent "natural" silk fiber comes out of a vat. "Natural" spider silks will give a lot of other fibers a hammering to boot.


MJ's claim to fame is that the parts of the plant we are mostly interested in using are the bits which are usually waste in other crops. Serendipitously the bit we are most interested in for fiber production: the stringy "growing" layer on the outside and the supportive woody part in the middle, are the parts the plant needs to make the most of in order to "construct" itself. Thus these bits are pretty much just carbon, hydrogen abd oxygen with bugger all of anything else. Carbon dioxide and water.

And just to put the cherry on top. The other gross part of the plant which is commercially useful the seeds are the something a plant devoted the lion's share of it's "efforts" and even more so when conditions are not the best. Adding water (up to a point) will always improve fiber production, but unlike with many other crops, there is far less bang per bug from fertilsers. It's "soil improving" qualities suggests it fixes it's own nitrogen, (Which if you look at it in the right way is has a far stronger claim to the tittle "Element of life" than Carbon. Carbon undeniably is the scaffold of life. But Nitrogen is the element that characterises proteins, the mutable, "living" part of life.)

So once you meet the water needs of the plant, to whit: the point where photosynthesis can't churn out sugars any faster; and which can be accomplished with very frugal drip (or subsurface soak) irrigation, if needed at all. Trace element needs to match this are quite small. Fertilisation is except in the deadest of soils (and I've seen 6m+ plants grown in some bloody crap soil without any help at all) is pissing money up against the wall or advance preparation for whatever crop comes after. Charcoal/Biochar (even clean coke from coal) would probably be a better bet. (That's another essay)

MJ could be inter-cropped with trees slated for lumber. In the early years fast growth of mj to 2-3m in height will encourage trees to start tall and straight as they reach for the sunlight. As the trees mature the MJ starts "reaching" for the sun, seed production drops off, but fiber production increases significantly.

MJ and a modicum of water and planing could be used to march waves of forest across deserts if we think big enough. Forest do need rain to grow, but forests also create rain by returning water to the atmosphere.

One thing we're going to have to seriously consider is tossing out the idea of "pure consevation". Gross human interference has gotten us into this state and it's going to take gross human interference to get us out of this mess. Forget about "Fixing" and "Putting them right/back." the best we can hope for now is "making good".

That means thinking about doing the seemingly unthinkable, callously destroying whole ecosystems and/or chunks of history. Flood the Lake Eyre in South Australia and the Dead Sea basin and another in Africa on the other side of the Red Sea. Digging canals or tunnels to the sea has been within our capabilities for about a century now. (It would be hugely interesting to see models of what such flooding would do.

If we can dig holes measured in cubic kilometers, we can pile dirt and rock just as high and build moisture dumping hills and mountains in just the right places.

Microwaves from space to guide (and even make) weather is on the cards for a not too distance future.

Save whatever species we can by doing will he nil she transplantations of threatened species into potentially viable climate zones and letting nature take its course. Drop a dozen or two of everything in enough places and we should manage to save a fair proportion of otherwise doomed species. And those that die, die. Better to save what we can than loose the lot while we wring our hand that we can't save them all.

Monkey meddling is a given. Better to do so with imperfect forethought, than heedless greed, neh?


:hippie: :smoke: :evilgrin:

[knitter4democracy]

144. Not quite.

The kind of cotton you're talking about is but one variation in the species. There are several natural cottons that are better adapted to desert climes (there are some natural cottons that developed separately in the American Southwest, for example), but those aren't the ones that the industry uses. They tend not to be pure white (instead natural browns, rusts, and greens), and so not of interest to the cotton industry.

The way the fibers develop in cotton are actually a good thing. Bast fibers, like hemp and flax, are great woven but not as great knitted. Not that knitters aren't working with them, but they produce a very different fabric when knitted. The fibers don't like being looped and twisted and looped some more--they like to stay straight, so weaving them makes more sense to get the best out of the fiber. Cotton likes to be knitted, though, as well as woven, which makes it a more usable fiber in more applications.

I'm all for using hemp more, since it is a fabulous fiber that shouldn't be against the law to grow. Marijuana is a different strain, so I don't know why we can't allow the fiber plant other than for greedy corporate interests. If you try burning hemp fabric, you won't get high, but the government sure acts like you would. *sigh*

Still, I don't think we should ban cotton. Crack down on the way it's grown, encourage the use of climate-appropriate variations, and encourage environmentally sound practices, definitely.

[Homer Wells]

65. Kicked and Recommended!! n/t

[Gold Metal Flake]

66. Question on the stitching.

Our bastard of a governor Herr Boobengrabber vetoed hemp farming legislation again this year. The bill will return next year. We will make this happen.

I was curious about the stitching in the last pix. It's way too uniform for hand stitching. Was there some form of machine stitching that long ago?

[knitter4democracy]

73. Not from that time period as far as I know from my research.

You'd be amazed at the unbelievable quality from before mechanization. I've seen socks knitted at 17 and even 22 stitches to the inch, when the smallest most knitters would go these days is maybe 10. Those knitters were working on fine wire and producing perfect pieces.

[Richard Steele]

104. That's not "too uniform", it was just stitched by someone with good eyesight...

...who took pride in their work.

Back in that day, even an entry-level seamstress was expected
to be able to do that, and an experienced one would be expected
to deliver specific stitches-per-inch just by eye.

Consider that the woven-work detail visible below those stitches
was also done by hand, and the stitches don't seem so difficult
in comparison.

[Gold Metal Flake]

111. Amazing. I can't imagine doing that by hand!

[femrap]

67. It looks a bit like linen....

is it like linen? Does it wrinkle like linen?

I want hemp clothes!

[knitter4democracy]

74. Flax and hemp can be very hard to tell apart.

Linen refers to the fabric, and it actually refers to both flax and hemp. Hemp tends not to get quite as white as flax, but they're processed the same way and can look very similar in the fabric. In my experience, hemp doesn't wrinkle quite as badly, and the best jeans I ever had (sadly too small now, but I'm keeping them in hopes I can get all this weight off) were hemp jeans--soft, molded to my body with wearing, and super, super comfy.

[femrap]

177. Isn't Canada now allowed to grow

some hemp? Some sort of experiment? I want to look into this further...I hate these manmade fabrics that stick to my body.

If I am going to learn to sew, then I want to sew using hemp fabric.

[knitter4democracy]

179. They do. The hemp/wool blend yarn I like is Canadian.

It's gorgeous fabric. It's pricey, but it wears like iron.

[Buzz Clik]

69. Hm. My education never ends. This was concept of a hemp dress:

[knitter4democracy]

70. There's a reason why it was the first handspun fiber.

The oldest evidence of spun fiber is ten thousand years old from a cave in France. Flax wasn't there yet--still growing mostly in Turkey. Hemp was. The look of the fibers was celluoid, so it was a plant, and hemp is the only one that fits the characteristics.

Hemp is an amazing fiber. It sheds dirt, so it bleaches and cleans up beautifully; it's amazingly strong, so it was used for thousands of years to make everything from shifts to sails; and it even takes dye decently (as opposed to flax), making it fun to do colorwork in, though that's a more recent development.

Great score!! I like to look for good textiles and hand-made items at estate sales, but I've never seen anything that nice. Next time, use Orvus paste to clean them (oxyclean sometimes breaks down fibers).

[defendandprotect]

125. And from what I've read, one of the largest sources of pollution immediately

as the industrial revolution came to pass was the manufacturing of clothing -- cotton????

Presume that hemp and flax weren't harmful to the environment . .. . . ???

[knitter4democracy]

141. Not true. They're still cleaning up the mess from dyes.

Tanning leather and dying fabrics (usually wool in Europe) take very strong chemicals that stick around for a long time. Dyers used to just dump their dye baths on the ground when done, and a lot of the more toxic compounds are still in the ground there. Certain dyes have since been banned in Europe because of it.

In the manufacture of cloth after the Industrial Revolution, the pollution started getting bad from the engines running the machines. At first, they used water power, and that was used for a long time. Then boilers became safer to use, and coal-fired boilers were used to provide the energy, which caused pollution.

It's not like there wasn't a problem long before the I.R., though. Heck, they've found the dyebaths on Greek islands from thousands of years ago and found the chemicals still in the soil. In some dyes, arsenic was used as part of the process, and that's stuck around in the soil since.

[Sparkly]

75. That is fascinating!!

I love antique textiles but never knew this about hemp.

How common was it? How would you know if an item is hemp or not?

[gulfcoastliberal]

77. Hemp For Victory!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6234815658481845054&q=hemp+for+victory&total=68&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

I love how the government denied this film existed until someone found them in the Archives.

Doesn't fascism suck?

[Bennyboy]

139. Great find.....

That film is great.

[rainy]

80. I eat hemp seeds everyday from the healthfood store.

[eppur_se_muova]

110. Why can't you grow hemp from these hemp seeds? Are they cooked? nt

[Greyskye]

128. Not cooked.

I believe that they are irradiated before they are allowed into the US, in order to render them sterile. :(

[rainy]

137. hey, I wonder if that's true. The package says raw.

They are about to ban raw almonds too.

[glowing]

150. Why is it they are afraid of the raw almonds? Too good as a cancer

fighter (or rather prohivitor)?

[rainy]

161. Here's the story. Raw almonds caused some problems for big corporate

farming. They weren't using the right protections and some almonds got contaminated. They got in trouble and since they wanted to make sure there was no more chance of contamination, they lobbied congress to make it mandatory that all farmers, even organic farmers who were not having any problems, be forced by law to pasteurize all almonds.

Now when I go to Trader Joe's they are selling all raw almonds as a last chance to buy item.

[Katherine Brengle]

83. Wow. That's incredible.

And beautiful.

[wovenpaint]

84. Yep-thank you DuPont et al

As a textile person, I appreciate you posting these nice photos and showing the value of hemp. I had been told that if our clothing was made from hemp, that we'd be passing clothing along to our grandchildren. This is a vivid example of that.
Hemp was "villified" in the early 20th century to make room for DuPont nylon-hemp was made illegal the same year that nylon came out....
From what I understand, at least one of the reasons that the name was changed to marijuana to help create prejudices....

[jhain]

134. good info here:

http://www.viridisluxe.com/hemp.html

[spanone]

87. hemp oil could also be used as an alternative fuel....many reasons to suppress this plant

[SHRED]

92. Thank you and share your story here also please

http://www.votehemp.com/contact.html

[Oldenuff]

93. Good post

I believe Hearst had a hand in making Hemp a villain as well.Bio fuels are also a hot topic these days,but a lot of information indicates that it could be more expensive that oil to produce...so I am a firm believer that Hemp Oil could very well be the answer we are looking for,but that the Big Campaign contributors won't allow to be used.

There is also the opinion,that the rush to bio fuels could raise food prices...and possibly create more hunger.Here is a recent article on the subject from the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7065061.stm

[troubleinwinter]

94. Yes. !!!!!!

[SHRED]

96. Industrial grown hemp is the enemy of "pot"

In fact a Marijuana grower that is growing flowers for "relaxation" would not want his/her plants anywhere near an industrial hemp field due to cross-pollination contamination.
Ya see...when the flowers get pollinated they stop growing and go to seed and hemp seed is very low THC so you have two things going wrong.
One: The plant stops flowering.
Two: The seed produced are junk for growing with THC as your goal.

The DEA argument that pot growers would "hide their plants in hemp fields" is absolutely ludicrous and needs to be called out for the mind game that it is.


----

[Catchawave]

97. There's so much to learn about this almost perfect product

Once we get our new Democratic President elected, DU's work will just be beginning......so many wrongs to be righted :D

[spacelady]

122. Excellent point - that's why good smoking weed cannot be grown

outside where a lot of "Hemp for Victory" ditchweed grows alongside the railroad tracks. The high THC weed gets cross-pollinated & the act of producing seeds saps the strength from the flowering buds. The seed-producing male plants must be culled so the bud-producing female plants do what they do best. No grower worth their salt would hide their plants in hemp fields.

Edit for typing in the dark.

[Capn Sunshine]

124. absolutely. The plant you want for industial use

would be low- flowering, high fiber ( ie stems) type. You're selecting for exactly the opposite with smoking hemp. If there was a way to grow just the flowers without the stems we'd all be farther down the road, smokewise. But yeah, just having pollen in the air is a threat to your custom plants. And it's very prevalent in CA

[emmadoggy]

99. Wow. This has been a very educational "thread". Ha! Pun intended!

Thanks for all the enlightening info everyone!

[Miss Chybil]

115. While the fabric may not change, the styles do.

I don't think your theory about the current illegality of pot being do to hemp's lasting properties to be feasible. Your nightgown is beautiful, but between the making of that gown and the "return" of that gown there have been a few teddies, footy-pajamas, flannels, tank-tops and birthday suits people have found themselves sleeping in. I'm sure none of their, (or my), sleepwear choices had anything to do with a conspiracy over cannabis.

I really do like that nightgown, though...

[axollot]

117. It's always been about the invention of the cotton gin!

Hisorical fact. It was also at one point a REQUIRED crop by all. Everyone had to have a % of their land devoted to it. To help in the revolution and to make America strong. Stuff grows super fast and has millions of uses.

Cheers
A pissed off Hemp protester against it's legality!

Sandy

[sellitman]

119. Can Hemp Impeach the bushies?

If not whats the big deal?


:hide:

[defendandprotect]

121. It's also good for the ozone layer --- !!! We can't have rayon either -- !!!!

[Catherine Vincent]

123. Amazing!

I'll purchase one from you! :hi:

[tuckessee]

131. If you like handspun antique hemp nightgowns you'll love

....books printed on hemp paper.

White pages still supple after a hundred years or more, unlike the brittle, yellow crap that is wood pulp paper

[whistle]

135. That is amazing? I wonder if the cotton industry had anything to do

...with the banning of hemp fabric production along with the prohabition of marijuana? The typical image of hemp use I have had has been in the production of burlap and hemp rope, a course rough fiber which one would hardly associate with clothing. The photo looks like the material could be a fine linen fabric.

Thanks for sharing

[troubleinwinter]

143. It wasn't the cotton industry.

It was newspaper publisher Hearst. A new machine had just been invented that proccessed hemp quicker & cheaper to make paper. Hearst owned wood production forests and feared his investment was going to tank and wood pulp paper would die. So he published attacks in his papers on marijuana... huge propaganda hysteria.

[Nothing Without Hope]

178. Very interesting. I hadn't heard that important bit of history. This should be undone.

K & R

[JitterbugPerfume]

146. that is beautiful!

[NotGivingUp]

149. It's one of the many wonderful things 'they' have stolen from us....

that along with the knowledge we used to possess for natural cures, food we should/shouldn't eat, etc. They do it for their own personal enrichment and power...to the detriment of us all.

[Swagman]

152. I've worn hemp jeans for years..they "breathe"..not hot in summer

and are warm in winter. It's a magic fabric.

[Caretha]

158. I nominate this my favorite Post of the Year

I have nothing to add to all the informative posters on this thread, but to say this was an extremely refreshing post with an astonishing amount of knowledge and sharing of such. If we could just bottle this type of useful information and mass market it, the world would be a much better place.

It made me feel hopeful that our species might figure out a way to replenish Gaia for the future.

[stubtoe]

163. I'll second that!

Plus it's fun to hear more from some of our Craft Forum members. Lots of knowledge in DU.

[WillyT]

162. Hey debbierlus, There Is Another Reason As Well...

Years ago, when I was living up on the Mendocino Coast up in Northern California, there was a LTTE in the Santa Rosa Press Democrat from a registered nurse. We were going through the bi-annual (election year) local debates about legalizing\de-criminalizing marijuana, so there were copious amounts of articles in the newspapers, and thousands of LTTEs.

Anywho... this one always stuck with me.

She wrote: " Folks, ya have to know that if you could grow aspirin in your backyard, they'd make aspirin illegal too. If the powers that be can't control it, and make their profits from it, it will be made illegal."

Curious thing is, that by keeping it illegal, it raises the price of an ounce of smokable bud to $400, more than half of what an ounce of Gold goes for.

:shrug:

[Nothing Without Hope]

166. In fact, the cultivars that are used for hemp don't make much if any THC

But they do LOOK similar to the ones that do. (Though apparently the ones that are specially bred for hyper-THC production for the drug market are dwarf clones that do their thing in specialized indoor overlit growing rooms.) I was reading about this in the "Marijuana" chapter of the Michael Pollan's fascinating book, The Botany of Desire.

Most weed marijuana plants will produce very little THC, but their fiber - as you found - is superb.

[IDemo]

168. It was once illegal not to grow hemp

http://audubonmagazine.org/incite/incite9911.html

Our first hemp law, enacted in Virginia, made it illegal for farmers not to grow the stuff. That was in 1619. The same law took effect in Massachusetts in 1631, Connecticut in 1632, and the Chesapeake Colonies in the mid-1700s, at which time hemp was the world's leading crop. The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were drafted on hempen paper. During the Revolutionary War, Old Ironsides, our most formidable battleship, carried 60 tons of hempen sail and rope. Betsy Ross made the first American flag out of hempen "canvas," a word derived from cannabis. "Make the most of hempseed and sow it everywhere," declared George Washington in 1794.

[Gregorian]

172. I'm quite awe struck.

I avoided this post because I thought it was...I don't know.

But being someone who is keenly aware of the "lifetimes" of objects, I am blown away. And those heart details on the hem are just amazing.

Considering these have not been in a nitrogen atmosphere, it's hard to believe how new they look.

And then there is the subject of the other "time". I was talking to my mom about the quilt she just got from her sister. Their mother made this quilt with the help of the people who lived in the area. 1930. Each person made a patch. And they sewed it all into one. Community. Time. But that's another topic.

This is about corporatism. This is about American values. And I'm deeply disturbed, because I lived during a time when none of the truly valuable stuff was considered important. See what petroleum did for us? Chemicals and petroleum are why this happened. They wanted to sell chemicals to grow cotton. Hemp didn't need them. And between those things, our lives got easy. Far far too easy. And empty.

It's good to see this. Refreshing.

[Yael]

174. Thanks for adding the pics

That really is lovely!

[Scout1071]

180. I'm wearing a hemp baseball hat right now.

It's awesome. Very high quality.

Oh yea - it's also one of my Goreganic hats at http:shop.goreganic.com

:)

Thanks for sharing that interesting tidbit and the picture. I too want to begin advocating for legalization.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

182. The workmanship blows me away, The hours put into this amazing article of

clothing has me in awe. I collect vintage stuff, my oldest seems to be a 1750 Velvet and horsehair braid w/ wrapped wooden buttons Jacket for a man. It is not for sale.

Love that close up pic of the fabric!

[SoCalDem]

185. There was no tv, radio, phone..or even electricity..long winter days

were "made" for quilt-making, sewing etc.. People would have gone nuts if the did not have indoor chores too.. hence "cabin fever"..

And for people who commented on the fantastic stitches.. people used to actually make perfect stitches. I marvel at my hand-me-down homemade quilts from the 1800's.. They were experts at hand sewing.. My grandmother even made her own lace.. tatting is a lost art:(

[Ghost in the Machine]

183. Beautiful stuff & EXCELLENT post!

Kicking back to the front page...

[Hissyspit]

184. .

[A-Schwarzenegger]

186. 100,000 Views?

Bots in action.

[Courtesy Flush]

187. This post is on page one of Digg.com today n/t

[Blue_Tires]

189. ttt

[lpbk2713]

190. This thread is certainly getting a lot of attention.

I made a note at around 11 am that there were 132,275 views recorded. Ninety minutes later there have been about 13,000 more views recorded. Most threads here die before they get even a small fraction of what this one has accumulated and it is still going strong. I find that interesting.