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Giuliani positions on abortion, gay rights & gun control remain indistinguishable from Clinton

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:46 AM
Original message
Giuliani positions on abortion, gay rights & gun control remain indistinguishable from Clinton
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/opinion/28rich.html?th&emc=th
But the most significant — and happiest — explanation for the values czars’ demise as a political force is that white evangelical Christians and a new generation of evangelical leaders have themselves steadily tacked a different course from the Dobson crowd. A CBS News poll this month parallels what the Times reporter David D. Kirkpatrick found in his examination of evangelicals for today’s Times Magazine. Like most other Americans, they are more interested in hearing from presidential candidates about the war in Iraq and health care than about any other issues.

Abortion and same-sex marriage landed at the bottom of that list; fighting poverty outpolled abortion as a personal priority by a 3-to-2 margin. To see just how large a gap separates that evangelical electorate from the values organizations that purport to speak in its name, just look at the Values Voter Summit that the Family Research Council convened to much press attention in Washington last weekend. In a survey of participants to determine which issue would be “most important” in choosing a presidential candidate, the summit’s organizers didn’t even think to list the war, health care or fighting poverty among the 12 hot-button options.

The Values Voter Summit’s survey of the attendees’ presidential preferences showed just as large a disconnect. Rudy Giuliani came in next to last (behind Tom Tancredo, ahead of John McCain) in the field of nine candidates, earning only 1.85 percent of the vote. By contrast, among white evangelicals nationwide in the CBS News poll, he was in a statistical dead heat for first place with Fred Thompson; indeed, Mr. Giuliani’s 26 percent among evangelicals nearly matches his showing among all Republican voters. The discrepancy between the CBS poll and the summit survey leaves you wondering who exactly follows Dr. Dobson and Mr. Perkins beyond the ticket buyers who showed up for their media circus last weekend at the Washington Hilton.

Of late Dr. Dobson has been throwing a hissy fit about Rudy’s rise, reminiscent of his 2005 condemnation of the cartoon character SpongeBob SquarePants for appearing in what he labeled a “pro-homosexual video.” Apparently suffering from the delusion that he has the pull on the right that Ralph Nader once did on the left, he has threatened to bolt to a third party. But for all this huffing and puffing, Dr. Dobson and his stop-Rudy brigade are as politically hypocritical as the Reverend Haggard was sexually hypocritical.

If they really believed uncompromisingly in their issues and principles, they would have long since endorsed either Sam Brownback, the zealous Kansas senator fond of using fetus photos as political props, or Mike Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor who spent 15 years as a Baptist preacher, calls abortion a “holocaust” and believes in intelligent design rather than evolution.

....

Even leaving aside the Giuliani record in New York (where his judicial appointees were mostly Democrats), the more Democratic Senate likely to emerge after 2008 is a poor bet to confirm a Scalia or Alito even should a Republican president nominate one. No matter how you slice it, the Giuliani positions on abortion, gay rights and gun control remain indistinguishable from Hillary Clinton’s.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. You should have credited Frank Rich for this column.
He's the best. You should have noted where this came from.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. I gave you the link what more do you want
me to read the whole article to you ;)
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Credit the author
And stuff your attitude.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I did by providing the link and
stuff your attitude too
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. that means they are also indistinguishable from Obama/Biden /Edwards / Dodd
In fact every democratic candidate except Kucinich.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. ...
:thumbsup:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. exactly
too bad our corporate controlled M$M does not spell that out for the clueless. We just might have a real democracy if they did.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. The difference IS that Guiliani is a nutjob....and Hillary ISN'T a nutjob n/t
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Of course not
What would her corporate donors think?
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Huh? Are you saying that you think Hillary is a nut?
Or am I misreading your comments?

Also there's nothing wrong with corporate donations, in fact they should be encouraged, the only way we can compete in the political arena, is by getting as much money as possible....BIG MONEY, and that can only come from corporations.

Also there's nothing wrong with corporations, they are essential to the economy and to the employment market.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I am saying she's not about to do anything to upset her corporate connections
And silly me, I favor publicly financed campaigns.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. Gee what a shock
I am so surprised. :sarcasm:
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
9. Clinton would never shut down an exhibition and try to defund the museum
... for offending Christian values. Which is what he did, before the courts slammed him back. Rudy is not so "liberal" in values ... especially when it comes to censorship or homeless people or race or many other things. But if you want to equate liberal values solely with stances on abortion, guns, and gay rights (no brainers if you are trying to run New York and be elected there), you will be missing the huge difference between a Rudy Giuliani and a Hillary Clinton.

The title to your post has nothing to do with what this op-ed piece was about. And no, Rudy and Hillary are not indistinguishable. Guliani probably loves Scalia and Alito.

If you can't see the difference between a Giuliani and a Clinton, then you are truly looking in all the wrong places. Stop listening to the media about how "liberal" Giuliani is. Stop compressing a complex galaxy of ideological persuasions into a few simplistic positions ... and start thinking about what the choice between a Clinton and a Giuliani presidency would really be. If they look the same to you, God help us.



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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. Giuliani is a MAJOR authoritarian/corporatist. HRC is just a corporatist.
I suspect her of being an authoritarian, but haven't seen much to prove it. How did she vote on USA PATRIOT?
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