Tim Hardaway (former NBA Star): "I hate gay people...I'm homophobic"

[blitzen]

I always thought he was an ass...this just confirms it (to hear the audio, play the "ESPN Motion" clip near the top, on the right)

http://espn.go.com/

[Taxloss]

1. Ooh, get her. n/t

[senseandsensibility]

2. LOL

:D

[More Than A Feeling]

3. I had his basketball card when I was young.

Fuck you, Tim Hardaway.

[enigmatic]

4. Hardaway's always been a complete ass

This isn't a shock. What a piece of shit he is..

[SidDithers]

5. I just saw that...

what a feckin' ass.

Sid

[blitzen]

6. Good excerpt from John Amaechi's book here (gay NBA player)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=espnmag/amaechi

[Zhade]

30. Great read!

What a sensitive man he is. Quite intelligent, too.

Thanks for the link.

[BlooInBloo]

32. Yup - very nice, Zirin couldn't do any better.

[Initech]

7. At least he admits it... still doesn't make him any less of an asshole, though.

[alarimer]

8. Doesn't homophobic mean fear of gay people?

Do we even have a term for hatred of gay people? Or does the hatred arise out of fear. Well it probably does, if he fears that they will try to "turn" him gay. Oh, hell, I don't know what I am trying to say here.

[Taxloss]

9. It's come to mean fear and loathing.

The hatred is often based on insecurity or fear, as is most hatred.

[Behind the Aegis]

10. The suffix -phobia.

"Phobia" is generally used to indicate a "fear" of something. However, that is the psychological use. The sociological use of "-phobia" is used to indicate "dislike, revulsion," and even discrimination. In the 90's, the book After the Ball, by Kirk and Madsen, introduced the term "homo-hatred." But, it never really "took." Hope that helps! :)

[alarimer]

20. Tim Hardaway would be very upset if some other player

said he hated black people and, let's face it, we have come far enough that most people don't say that out loud. Racism is still a problem but it is generally not as overt as it once was. I do not want to diminish that at all. But it is still okay to voice hatred and revulsion towards gays or the transgendered. I fear that it will be many years before that changes and we may never rid ourselves of all prejudices altogether.

[Behind the Aegis]

34. You are correct on a number of levels.

He would indeed be upset if someone expressed the same type of hate for African-Americans (I am assuming he is...I don't follow sports, so I only know a few names). The only problem is there are many that see being gay as a choice, and therefore, not on the same level as racism. IMHO, it doesn't matter whether someone is born gay (what I believe), chooses to be gay (who the Hell would choose that, even in this day and age?), or some combination therein. Hating people for who they are, when it doesn't interfere with your life, is really just stupid and counterproductive. You are also right that we will never rid ourselves of prejudices, all we can do is not let those prejudices run our lives.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

160. Prefix - homo

Actually means 'same' (or 'man'), right?

WHY OH WHY do people have trouble with the -phobia but NONE with HOMO??????

LITERALLY it means FEAR OF THE SAME.

Common Use is fear/loathing/hatred.

Ever CAUGHT a bus? Who threw it?

[spoony]

184. Fear of the same

That's a very interesting point. Maybe if people like Hardaway understood the meaning of those words, they'd figure out that they are the same as others, gay or straight--everyone, and that being afraid of people makes one afraid of themself in a way.

[JackBeck]

21. Just blame Hunter S. Thompson.

The one who directed us to both fear and loathe Las Vegas.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

38. Hehe...

don't blame the good doctor.

He was my man.

[Change has come]

28. bigot seems to work.

definitions:

1). a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own.

2). One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

3). a person who constantly and stubbornly holds a particular point of view etc. Example: a religious bigot.


The only people who seem to care as much as Mr. Hardaway :rofl: either believe everything the Bible says (gay people are an abomination, shell fish is nasty, wearing polyester-cotton blends is a reason to be put to death), or have something to hide. He fears he is gay, or he has spent his adult life wearing blended fabrics...So he may just be feeling guilty. :shrug:

[Error]

11. i hate jocks...

:sarcasm:

[Warren Stupidity]

12. Just heard that on ESPN.

WHAT AN ASSHOLE

[k_jerome]

13. wow, he joins about 80% of everyone else in the country. nt.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. Oh really?

80% of the nation is bluntly openly hateful of gay people? Do you have any evidence of that?

[k_jerome]

16. well...lets see....

as a minority, i have long known it ain't these kinda hateful idiots you have to worry about. its the other ones.

you got any proof otherwise?

[Warren Stupidity]

17. You made an assertion of fact.

I asked if you had any evidence for that fact. You should provide the evidence or admit that

You Made Shit Up

Then you may ask me if I have evidence to the contrary, and I might even go dig some up.

[k_jerome]

19. i made an assertion based on my observations and experience...

if you don't like that, i don't care.

[trumad]

55. Then why not 90 percent

or say 95 percent? Or 75 or 85?

[k_jerome]

74. because i came up with the number, not you...

i know it is more than 50 and less than 100. based on my extensive experience with white peoples bigotry toward other races, and the fact that i believe their hatred toward gays seems to be even greater, and the ingrained acceptance in our society that gays are an acceptable target of discrimination, 80% seems a reasonable number to me. throw into that mix the apparent fact that bigotry toward gays seems to be a common ground for other races to get in on the hatred, and I get my number.

[trumad]

83. I think the point is--- is it's not based on fact, would you agree?

and I think the other poster called you on your number because you made it sound like fact.

[k_jerome]

85. i believe the number i arrived at is based upon fact....

obviously, i did not poll every person in the country.

[trumad]

89. OK---then prove the fact.

BTW: If I say pigs can fly and I know they can because it's based on fact--- would you take my word for it or ask me to prove the fact?

[k_jerome]

90. you are attempting to frame the argument...

you are asking me to "prove the fact". my conclusion is based on observation of society and interpretation of gathered facts. i stated that my arrived upon number was BASED on facts...not that the percentage was a fact. are you asking me to prove the facts i used to arrive at my percentage?

[trumad]

98. Hey--all we're asking is that you prove your facts.

Your "arrived upon number" is subjective and it's an opinion or a conclusion that cannot be verified.

My arrived upon observation was that the pig could fly. And that's a fact based on my observation.

[k_jerome]

102. i did not state my conclusion was a fact, i stated that it was based on facts and observation...

your arrived upon observation is legitimate. i have seen video of pigs being dropped from buildings and tossed with catapults. i think maybe they were already dead.

i will supply one fact from very recently that i used to arrive at my conclusion: 80% of the Indiana Senate ok'd a gay marriage ban this month. do you wish me to prove this?

i will supply one observation i have made recently that leads to my conclusion: the alarming percentage of posts i read on this very board regarding the recent Snickers ad campaign, that i would classify as outright homophobia, even though many of the esteemed members of the gay community here may be a bit more diplomatic about it.


you ain't gonna convince me that fully 2/3rds of caucasians in this country are not hateful, or at the least discriminatory toward minorities, because i have lived here as a minority long enough to see it. you are also not going to convince me that hatred and/or bigotry toward gays is not even more acceptable than racism, and apparently a universal rallying call for unity of bigots of all colors. i can supply facts all day that i have used to come to these conclusions and you can doubt my analysis of my own lying eyes all day as well. it remains that rights for gays in this country are being eroded because a majority finds it acceptable to do so. if you are alarmed at the large majority i believe it is, then that is certainly your right to express your alarm.

[trumad]

107. Post 83

i believe the number i arrived at is based upon fact....

Look---I see you working and I see what you are trying to say.

I just disagree with your usage of the word "fact".

A fact in my mind and probably a good majority of folks here on DU is something that can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Your 80 percent quote is subjective and based on YOUR OBSERVATION.

[k_jerome]

109. and your issue is that i used facts to come to my conclusion?

i supplied a fact used to come to this conclusion. do you wish me to prove that? it is a fact that 80% of Indiana state senators voted to ban gay marriage. you can look it up on the indiana.gov website, if it is in question.

[trumad]

153. LOL

Nice try there.... Your first er 80 percent post mentioned nothing about Indiana State Senators.

Here's what you said in your first post about the subject:

"wow, he joins about 80% of everyone else in the country. nt.

80 percent of the Indiana State Senators does not make 80 percent of everybody in the country.

[k_jerome]

158. i know that...

as i said, it was one of the factors used to come to my conclusion. there are many others. the fact that the 80% is the same is simply coincidence...if it makes you feel better, its actually 78%.

[trumad]

161. OK---I'll try this one more time and then give up.

the factors used to come to your conclusions are simply not fact without some type of nationwide survey or statistic that states that 80 percent of the country hates Gays. You're basing your conclusion that 80 percent of the country hates Gays because 80 percent of Indiana Senators voted against Gay Marriage.

nuff said.

[k_jerome]

162. the factors i use are fact...

the vote i referenced did happen...other legislation has been enacted throughout the country along similar lines. you may argue that the 80% is not fact, however, i did not claim it as such. as i stated, and once again, several factors have gone into my conclusion, including comments and polls on this very site. if the 80% scares or alarms you, that is a good thing. i stand by it based on the facts i have analyzed and the observations i have made.

nuff said.

[trumad]

167. No it doesn't alarm me. or scare me........

because I don't believe it's an accurate number and you most certainly haven't proven that it is.

[k_jerome]

168. i am sure it does not...

you don't have to believe it. meanwhile, the earth will continue to spin and minority rights will continue to erode.

but thanks for the support, nonetheless.

[trumad]

172. Because I don't buy your 80 percent statement

now all of a sudden I don't support minority rights? LOL

Dude--- it could be 95 percent---ya ever think of that? Again---this minor and albeit stupid debate we are having is simply based on a phantom number that you threw out there and tried to make fact.

[k_jerome]

176. i didn't say that. i said thank you.....

i never tried to make it fact, you did. i said my own conclusion was based on facts and observation. you seem to be having this debate with yourself.

it could be 95 percent...that would not surprise me either...it is significantly north of half, otherwise we minorities wouldn't be in the state we are in.

[trumad]

189. Post 85

"i believe the number i arrived at is based upon fact...."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=215237&mesg_id=216961

Post 172: "i never tried to make it fact, you did".
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=215237&mesg_id=220067

This is like a Seinfeld episode. The whole God Damn debate started because you based this on fact.

[k_jerome]

190. my theory is the 80%....

this theory is based on some observable facts, a couple of which i supplied. you are debating with yourself whether my theory is fact, when in actuality, it is based on fact. i did not advertise my theory as a fact...i simply stated that my theory is based upon facts.

[trumad]

191. So you're telling me that 80 percent of the country hates Gays

and that's based on fact?

[k_jerome]

192. based on the facts as i interpret them...

yes. i take it you disagree?

[trumad]

193. "based on the facts as i interpret them"...

Much better---

Now you see---that wasn't hard.

And as far as disagreeing... Uh, I don't know because I haven't seen a nationwide report or statistic that has verified that number. Until then, I can't tell you what the number is.

[k_jerome]

194. my original assertion was never to the contrary....

personal theories are always based upon interpretation.

i am glad that you have given up the self debate and actually read the posts.

as far as disagreeing, you will never see a nationwide report, so it is, of course convenient not to form an opinion.

[trumad]

195. self debate?

No--- I was debating one central point...and that is your 80 percent number is not fact, but speculation. You now claim that you never said it was based on fact, but I've proven over and over using your own words that you did say it was fact.

Question? You used Indiana as a basis for your number--- why haven't you used a state that is more Gay friendly? Massachusetts for instance? Too small---How about California?

Why would you use knuckle-dragging Indiana State Senators and their vote on Gay Marriage as a basis that 80 percent of the country hates Gays. It makes no sense.

This isn't a self-debate. I wanted to know how you came up with 80 percent and so far your reasons have been pretty lame.

[k_jerome]

196. hold on...i have not said i did not say that...

as a matter of fact, i will say it again...my theory that 80% is a good number is based upon fact.

how about knuckle draggers in Hawaii? How about knuckle draggers here?

The reasons are always lame to someone that does not experience discrimination, but simply likes to argue with those that do and have. There are gay people on this thread that agree with the number. Care to refute their life experiences? I don't expect so. And I have come to not expect understanding from members of the majority that are either actively or blindly complicit in the subjugation of minorities. I am not saying it isn't there. I'm just very surprised when I see it.

[trumad]

198. Oh God....

Fact from what... Indiana? You're experiences as a minority? 80 percent is just a guess. Would you agree with that?

And don't pull the race card on me. It's a silly way to debate a fellow progressive and our little dust-up has nothing to do with that. This whole thing started because you said that 80 percent of the country hates Gays like Tim Hardaway. You got called on it and were asked to prove it was 80 percent.

Now your pulling the race card to defend your pie in the sky number.

Pretty pathetic me-thinks.

[k_jerome]

201. 80% is my theory based upon facts i have gathered...

apparently you are used to people allowing you to define what they are saying.

now where do i hear whining about "the race card"? oh well, can't recall. there is only a difference between the hatred Hardaway has for gays and the hatred displayed by a vast majority of our citizens(about 80% by my reckoning) in denying equal rights to an entire segment of society to those that do not feel the bite of discrimination.

[trumad]

204. We've gone from "fact" to "Reckoning"

I see we've made progress today.

I reckon we're done here.

[k_jerome]

205. no we haven't....

either of us can interpret facts in completely different ways. apparently your interpretation differs greatly from my own. to the point that you cannot even form an opinion.

i am sure you are not done though.

[hfojvt]

171. aha, so he did say about

indicating it was a guess, an estimate, an approximation. If it is way off, can you supply other research to disprove it. Anti-gay legislation has been passed in many states, by the voters, by large majorities, perhaps over 80%. I posted a group of those once. I can look that up.

[trumad]

173. I agree... but you use the word "perhaps"?

it could be 95 percent of America. I'm not saying it's less or more because I don't know and neither do you. You guys are guessing.

[hfojvt]

181. I say perhaps, because I cannot remember the exact numbers

If 80% is low, that only strengthens Jerome's argument. 80% sounds close to me. I will try to look it up.

[trumad]

186. "If 80% is low"

If---perhaps.... do not make fact.

Am I missing something here? You guys do know that we at DU pride ourselves with being members of the fact-based community.

This is my whole argument here. These numbers are just speculation. Like I said it could be higher or much lower.

[k_jerome]

187. i never claimed the 80% was fact...

if you read the original post, i even said "about". i don't understand what we are debating here.

[hfojvt]

197. sometimes seems more like the 'attack based' community

If you do not have numbers of your own, then you do not KNOW that somebody else's estimate is way off. Naturally I cannot find my previous post. Maybe it was deleted. Maybe it was a post I wrote, but never posted. I looked up election results in about 10 states on the issue of gay marriage. Although I just did just as much work, I am not gonna look those numbers up again. 80% does not sound way off from my memory. It fits what I remember in basic terms - "a vast majority". In that sense it is an approximation of reality, like 22/7 for pi, or you could even say 'about 3' or even about 4. It is closer to 4 than it is to 1.

Is 80% written in stone? Does everything posted on DU need to be? At least on the issue of gay marriage the number is closer to 80% than it is to 30%, but I would not consider opposition to gay marriage to be full blown homophobia.

[hfojvt]

179. what would you say is the percentage of posts?

Or is it the percentage of 'posters'?

I just think that subjectively anything over 20 can seem like a huge number, but it is not a large percentage among 5-10,000 registered posters. Even 100 is only 1% of 10,000. I did not see that many, but I am probably considered one of the guilty parties somehow, since I defended the snickers ad.

[k_jerome]

180. the percentage of posters more accurately...

there was an actual poll posted.

[hfojvt]

199. about the snickers' commercial?

Any poll on DU needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt. It is not a random distribution, and the mass of DU is 'not voting'. Has there ever been a poll with over 400 responses? Even 30 responses on a poll can read like 28% when it is only .3% of active DUers who voted that way.

[GOTV]

169. Ok, you made it up. It's worth what went into it. HAND n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

70. get over yourself. how many states have passed the marriage amendments

what percentage of people support gay equality?

[k_jerome]

105. Indiana senate recently ok'd gay marriage ban, 80% voting in favor...

including AT LEAST 41% of Democratic senators.

[redqueen]

110. You're basing your outrageous assumption about public opinion

of this very controversial issue on how some posturing politicians voted?

:rofl:

[k_jerome]

112. please explain how this vote is not indicative of....

the majority of americans attitudes about gays? i promise not to laugh.

[redqueen]

117. You have to be kidding me.

You can't honestly believe the votes of a group of legislators accurately reflect popular opinion.

They answer to voters. Wealthy ones first. You do know how many people even bother with voting, don't you?

[k_jerome]

121. you've got to be kidding me....

i've heard that cop out for decades. meanwhile minority rights continue to erode, even though the majority of people really have our best interests at heart? feed us more BS while we continue to be relegated to second class status by a "group of legislators". after all, it ain't you, its other people.

now i'm laughing.

[redqueen]

122. I'm sad that you find this a laughing matter.

It implies to me that you don't take these issues seriously.

Why do you assume it ain't me?

There is no reason to be so nasty.

[k_jerome]

126. your denial of the widespread discrimination of minorities in this...

country makes me doubt your concern.

and you started the laughter, not me. i'm sure it wasn't meant to be demeaning or nasty when you did it.

[redqueen]

129. I'm aware of widespread discrimination.

And you're right... I did laugh, but I didn't curse at you. Your cursing at me inferred to me that you were doing it in a mocking way. Sorry if mine seemed derisive, because you're right, I certainly didn't mean it that way.

I'm Hispanic, btw.

What we don't agree on is whether widespread discrimination indicates that most people agree with that discrimination. I think a lot of people just don't like 'rocking the boat', and in a culture such as ours, which punishes sensitivity to these issues, I think a lot of people who are sympathetic to minority issues and gender issues as well... I think a lot of those people's opinions are just harder to gauge.


on edit: please keep in mind how well it serves the "have more's" interests that the hoi polloi are kept at each other's throats.

[k_jerome]

130. if you feel that my characterization of your message as BS was cursing you..

personally then i apologize. it was not my intent.

we do disagree on widespread attitudes of bigotry among the populace.

[redqueen]

133. No apology necessary...

but thank you nonetheless. It just seemed to change the tone, if you know what I mean.

Anyway... I hope you do see my point about the interests of the "have more's" (those who our legislators are more willing to listen to and act on behalf of) I hope you see how the plebes being divided serves their interests.

[k_jerome]

136. i see your point, and agree that there is an element of that in the picture....

however, i will also say that much of the legislation eroding rights would not be enacted if the majority of the population supported those rights.

[redqueen]

143. I wonder...

Right now we're seeing the govt banging the war drums towards Iran, and most people definitely don't support that idea.

I think people just don't pay attention. I at least hope it's the case with civil rights issues as well...

[k_jerome]

148. that is a very legitimate point....

as I said, my conclusion is based on observation and analysis of facts by myself. as always, there may be research done by others that refute my own conclusions.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

138. exactly. which is why i totally believe in the 80% stats

[redqueen]

149. ...

:(

[Parche]

115. Percentage

88.5378375 to be exact!!!!!! Hahahahah

[Bluebear]

135. "Hahahahah" Does it MATTER if it's 40, 60, 80% Why are you people arguing about it?

Is it enough that Hardway made hateful comments and that state over state is voting to ban gay marriage, or you need accurate percentages now?

[k_jerome]

140. the arguing may be pointless...

i do not believe my assertion that it is a sizeable portion of society should be overlooked, however.

[Bluebear]

142. It certainly should NOT be overlooked!

:)

[k_jerome]

the actual percentage i calculated was 76....

i rounded it up to 80 to make it look bigger and scarier.

[Parche]

147. HARDAWAY GOAWAY

Exactly my point, it doesnt matter

This statement by him is 'hateful', and is not seen otherwise

[redqueen]

151. It matters to me that people get the idea that this is the "norm".

I think a lot of people who are sympathetic to causes that they perceive are unpopular might keep those sympathies quiet.

I would rather as many people as possible felt comfortable about openly declaring their support for GLBT rights.

[Bluebear]

154. A good point also.

Carry on, lol.

Actually it is very hard to know 'percentages' because what people say and what they secretly harbor are sometimes two different things.

[redqueen]

159. That is true, too...

*sigh*

Such ugliness we are capable of... and it's so easily done away with through education... but someone's interests are served by having the masses divided.

[Parche]

206. joke

Dont mind me, my post was just as a joke connected to the 'percentage' points...as that matters!!!

[LostinVA]

82. I wouldn't hold my breathe waiting for the evidence

I would say that "fact" is extremely off base.

[ThomCat]

124. I'd say it's at least 80% of the population.

I know there are far fewer than 1 in five people I know who I would consider supportive of GLBT people.

Most of the people I know who think they're supportive are more apathetic than anything else. They just don't care enough to hate, and certainly not enough to help.

[Dorian Gray]

77. What ?

80% of people in this country HATE gay people? I don't think so.

[k_jerome]

78. that is your right. i do. nt.

[Oeditpus Rex]

14. Oh, the irony!

Y'know what, Timmy? If it hadn't been for a handful of people who put up with a whole lot of incredible bullshit to fight your kind of bigotry in sports 50, 60 years ago, your ass might be doing the roofs of vans at some car wash on the South Side.

[Bill McBlueState]

18. you have to wonder what's going on in his head

Here's a direct link to the story: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2766213

To react *so* strongly suggests that Hardaway has some issues that go a little deeper than just being a homophobe. Wonder what his problem is.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. not much. nt.

[blitzen]

31. direct link...thanks n/t

[Monk06]

22. Tim you're gay. Do yourself a favor. Embrace it. Come out of the closet already.

[LeftyMom]

24. Not every homophobe is closeted and self-hating.

There are plenty of straight assholes too, and no reason to believe he's not one of them.

[foreigncorrespondent]

25. So now...

...not only do we have to "get over it" when something happens that is pretty homophobic, or all nasty repukes are gay, but now the homophobes themselves are ALL closeted? Going by your logic then there happen to be a hell of a lot of closeted queers right here at DU.

I know, "get over it!!!"

[k_jerome]

26. "Going by your logic then there happen to be a hell of a lot of closeted queers right here at DU."

i have seen no truer words all day.

[jonnyblitz]

29. !!!

:applause: :hi:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

39. Fucking awesome post!

:hug:

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[LostinVA]

67. Brava!

[redqueen]

119. ...

:loveya:

[Tatiana]

137. I don't think that's what the OP meant.

Meaning the "get over it" sentiment.

I also happen to think Tim is gay. I don't think so because he calls himself homophobic. I've always gotten the impression from the few times that I've met him that he is gay. That doesn't mean that every bigot is a closeted gay.

[JackBeck]

155. Out of curiosity, what gave you that impression?

[Tatiana]

188. Just the way he interacted with the men around him.

I can't quite explain it. Again, this is only my opinion, not fact. The multitude of women vying for his attention didn't seem to interest him whatsoever. I think one of the guys at this particular function did, however. Even my friend asked me if Tim was checking out this one guy's a$$.

[myrna minx]

202. Fantastic post, foreigncorrespondent.

:applause:

[Bluebear]

44. Sorry, but: What an utterly ridiculous post.

NT

[Monk06]

210. No it is not rediculouus. Case in point Roy Cohen, J. Edgar Hoovers's point man at HUAC...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Cohn

[BlooInBloo]

27. American Beauty.

[northzax]

33. aw, is poor wittle timmy out of the limelight

and needs more attention? I seriously think, from my interactions with athletes, that homophobia is not a real big issue for most players. the really good ones simply want to win. I don't think they pay any attention whatsoever. You think someone like Michael Jordan, a renowned asshole, by the way, would have cared about a gay teammate? not on the court, not if the person could play. Sport should really be the great equalizer, you either can do it, or you can't, the rest of it doesn't matter. Look at all the ultra conservative idiots who embraced a kook like Dennis Rodman, who cared what he did off the court, he was damn good on the court.

I really think this is why there are no veteran athletes still playing who say crap like this. Everyone knows there are gay basketball players, gay football players, gay hockey players, baseball players even (I know, shocking) gay soldiers, if Tim Hardaway thinks he never played with one, he is deluding himself. and yes, I think it would be a great thing for someone to feel comfortable enough, while in the spotlight, to talk about it. I also think it would be great for no one besides the people who they care to share it with, to even give a damn. I certainly don't know everything about my coworkers, there are certainly people that I work with, and play with, that I don't know if they are gay, straight, bi or into watersports, and I don't care. nor should you, Timmy.

[blitzen]

35. Remember this? Shaq helps arrest Gay-basher

http://gaylife.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.gay.com/news/article.html%3F2005/09/14/3

Miami Heat center Shaquille O'Neal sprang into action last weekend when he saw a man allegedly assault a gay couple.

Around 3 a.m. on Sunday, the 7-foot-1 basketball player was driving in South Beach when he saw a passenger in a car yell anti-gay slurs at the couple before throwing a bottle and hitting one of them.

O'Neal sped after the car, flagging down an officer who later arrested Michael Gonzalez, 18, on charges of aggravated assault and assault with a deadly weapon. The driver of the car was not charged.

The man who was hit with the bottle was not hurt seriously.

O'Neal, who hopes to be a police chief or county sheriff, released a statement about the incident. "For this incident I don't want to be credited as an individual who does police work. I want to be credited as a Miami Beach police officer."

Miami police spokesman Robert Hernandez said O'Neal has completed the training to be a reserve officer, but has not taken the state certification exam yet.

"He should be certified any day now," Hernandez told the Miami Herald. "He's already been fitted for a uniform."

"I think he's a great guy and he was just doing the right thing," said Cyd Zeigler, co-founder of the LGBT Web site OutSports.

[JVS]

36. wow. i'm impressed.

[Change has come]

40. This deserves its own thread

Good for officer O'Neal!

[Dorian Gray]

79. Hopefully he'll give Tim Hardaway

some shit for this statement.

I can't believe how vile his statement is. It's absolutely horrible. I can't imagine thinking that way about anybody, let alone saying it out loud.

And sadly, I do think that his comments will be celebrated by some. Especially freepers.

[sakabatou]

37. Ok

So what? Unless he does something outrageous, this is rather trivial.

[blitzen]

41. jeez..lighten up....when a guy makes an assholish right-wing

remark, it makes for a good discussion topic on DU. I never said it was as Series11!! as bush's warmongering or south korean nukes. go read another thread if you find it trivial

[sakabatou]

42. Alright, alright

Pic for quote:

[Bluebear]

45. You don't think THAT was outrageous????

Jeez, thank you for your support. Trivial indeed.

[Nicole]

46. Trivial????

You find this trivial??

"You know, I hate gay people, so I let it be known," Hardaway said. "I don't like gay people and I don't like to be around gay people. I am homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States."

Hardaway was a guest of Miami Herald columnist Dan Le Batard on the Miami radio show Sports Talk 790 and was asked how he would deal with a gay teammate. When asked if he would accept an active player's coming out, such as that of retired NBA center John Amaechi, Hardaway replied: "First of all, I wouldn't want him on my team.

"And second of all, if he was on my team, I would, you know, really distance myself from him because, uh, I don't think that's right. And you know I don't think he should be in the locker room while we're in the locker room. I wouldn't even be a part of that," he said."

:wtf:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

49. Oh don't worry...

the guy you're responding to would be welcome in the locker room.

Therefore, this is a trivial matter.

[Nicole]

51. Amazing

Amazing how that works out.

This thread reminded me I need to change my sigline to show support. I keep forgetting we have them here. :(

[Bluebear]

52. Beautiful sig, darling.

Thank you :hug:

[Nicole]

53. Thank you

:hug:

[LostinVA]

68. Thank you, Nicole!

Trust me -- your support is always noticed and appreciated.

[Nicole]

185. You're welcome

Thank you for noticing. :hug:

[KitSileya]

139. Howsa about this?

"You know, I hate black people, so I let it be known," Hardaway said. "I don't like black people and I don't like to be around black people. I am a racist. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States."

Hardaway was a guest of Miami Herald columnist Dan Le Batard on the Miami radio show Sports Talk 790 and was asked how he would deal with a black teammate. When asked if he would accept an active player's being black, such as that of retired NBA center John Amaechi, Hardaway replied: "First of all, I wouldn't want him on my team.

"And second of all, if he was on my team, I would, you know, really distance myself from him because, uh, I don't think that's right. And you know I don't think he should be in the locker room while we're in the locker room. I wouldn't even be a part of that," he said."

or

"You know, I hate Jews, so I let it be known," Hardaway said. "I don't like Jews and I don't like to be around Jews. I am an anti-semite. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States."

Hardaway was a guest of Miami Herald columnist Dan Le Batard on the Miami radio show Sports Talk 790 and was asked how he would deal with a gay teammate. When asked if he would accept an active player's converting to Judaism, such as that of retired NBA center John Amaechi, Hardaway replied: "First of all, I wouldn't want him on my team.

"And second of all, if he was on my team, I would, you know, really distance myself from him because, uh, I don't think that's right. And you know I don't think he should be in the locker room while we're in the locker room. I wouldn't even be a part of that," he said."

Does that put things into perspective, those of you who find this trivial?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

47. And the straight man speaks...

:eyes:

[Nicole]

48. Boggles the mind doesn't it?

:eyes:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

50. Yep, although it's not surprising.

It's far too common a sentiment.

[foreigncorrespondent]

54. True!!!

Unless he does something outrageous, this is rather trivial.

Blaitant homophobia seems to be the trend these days, huh?

[LostinVA]

71. Yeah, blatant discrimination nd bigotry is trivial, didn't you know?

[gollygee]

66. I'd like to know why he felt it necessary

to proclaim his hatred for a group of people. What he thinks is his business. When he decides to proclaim it, he chooses to make it our business. He did it for some reason or another, and I'd like to know why. What was he hoping to gain?

[Starbucks Anarchist]

93. I'd consider hating an entire group of people pretty outrageous.

[redqueen]

111. WHAT?!

That's a very sad post, friend. :(

[sakabatou]

218. I'm going to STFU now

-_-

[Bluebear]

43. "(Gays) shouldn't be in the world or in the United States" - what is he suggesting?

"You know, I hate gay people, so I let it be known," Hardaway said. "I don't like gay people and I don't like to be around gay people. I am homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2766213

Fuck you, Tim Hardaway.

[xchrom]

56. yes -- i know -- i mean we HAVE to be some where.

so i'm guessing under the earth is what would satisfy his criteria.

[LostinVA]

72. That's what it sounds like, doesn't it -- annihilation

And no, I don't think I'm being "too sensitive" or "over the top," so all the phobes and phobe enablers on here can STFU. HE IS ADVOCATING THAT GAYS NEED TO CEASE TO EXIST. Why the hell have I heard something similar to this, huh? Let em cast my mind back a few decades...

And, shame on a member of an minority for spewing this filth.

[xchrom]

101. it's everywhere, love, just everywhere.

what advances we{Gay folk} make -- we make on our own.

[LostinVA]

157. I know, I know

[TheWatcher]

62. "I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States."

And why, oh washed up fuckface, don't you DO something about it.

I'd pay to see what happens to you.

It would be a hell of a lot more worth paying for than any moment your flash in the pan career.

Worthless piece of filth.

[Az]

57. How to react to such thinking

Note that in the article he later claims to regret having said what he did. Its not that he developed a sudden love for homosexuals but that he regrets what has happened as a result of him opening up about the issue.

I can't help but feel there was an opportunity lost here. When someone such as this speaks out honestly about how they feel the typical reaction is to beat them down and silence them. But that does not resolve anything and only drives a wedge in deeper.

His position is one born of ignorance. Ignorance unlike stupidity (W's condition) is curable. Knowledge, education, and learning can correct ignorance. But meeting an ignorant emotional position with another emotional reaction just seems counter productive to me.

As the NBA seems to be taking strong measures to his statements I would suggest that one of them be mandating that he take some classes to raise his awareness to such issues.

[Doondoo]

58. At least this guarantees that he'll never get a job in broadcasting anywhere

[Az]

59. Oh come on. This practically guarantees him a spot on Fox News n/t

[Doondoo]

60. Hannity & Hardaway???

;)

[SalmonChantedEvening]

61. One he learned it was going to cost him $$$$....

The backpedaling commenced:

"NBA Commissioner David Stern, upon learning of the remarks Wednesday, removed Hardaway from subsequent league-related appearances.

-snip-

Hardaway, later saying he regretted the remarks, apologized for the remarks during a telephone interview with Fox affiliate WSVN in Miami."

:eyes:

Truly a day late and a dollar short, Timmy...

[TheWatcher]

64. Yes you regret the remarks because it will cost you money.

"Please don't take away my money because I'm a bigot!"

You deserve to lose everything you have with an attitude like that, Tim.

Phil Collins once said "If you told me you were drowning, I would not lend a hand."

You made your bed, Tim.

Lie In It.

And suffer. Preferably Quietly.

[Malikshah]

73. The journalist interviewing him had given him an out-- hearing

his initial statement, the journo said along the lines of " you know that that is bigoted" and Hard-on-away took that and dug his hole even deeper with the "I hate gays" "I'm a homphobe rant"

It was on my local new (SoFl) last night with the audio and words...

Screw him--

[Bassic]

63. Who the fuck is Tim Hardaway?

Aside from being an obvious idiot.

[TheWatcher]

65. A washed up has been, who now appears to be a washed up bigot as well.

[Bassic]

69. What did he do?

I've never heard of him. (And from reading the OP, that might have been a good thing)

[blitzen]

114. 5-time NBA all-star back in the 90s....n/t

[Bassic]

125. Oh I see.

Lots of homophobia in professionnal sports, I think.

[William Bloode]

75. Hating gays does not make you homophobic.

It makes you a bigoted moron. I am a true homophobe. They may make me nervous, but i don't hate them by any means.

[k_jerome]

76. i believe homophobe is commonly defined as hatred or fear of gays. nt.

[William Bloode]

81. I'll agree with fear. I have some fear myself.

Hence i openly call myself a homophobe. Hate is not fear, or phobia.

Sure you are right by common terminology, but common terminology can often be linguistically wrong.

[swimboy]

94. Earnest question

Are you afraid of homosexuals as a group, or are you afraid of individual homosexuals, or both? You can PM if you want to avoid being flamed.

[William Bloode]

96. Both.

Now that being said, i don't hate homosexuals. I wish them every right, and privilege we all have.

I ain't worried about being flamed. I'm a well known and self admitted homophobe. Most of the homosexuals here are somewhat o.k. with it. Partly i believe because i can admit it, and partly because it's the result of sexual assault in my youth. Also i don't just wallow in my homophobia. I actively work at improving it as best i can.

[ProfessorGAC]

99. Fear? Really?

That is surprising.
The Professor

[William Bloode]

100. Yeah, fear PG.

I was assaulted by a pedophile when i was a young lad. I had a serious complex, due to the fact i thought this action may have made me gay. You don't really want to be gay where i'm from, it's hell. I tortured myself, became a gay basher for a while.

Only later did i learn to control my feelings better, and use critical thought to work things out. #1 was realizing i was the victim of a pedophile, and not some evil queer predator.

My fear may stem from the hate i once felt, and the guilt such hate has made me feel. Good thing though is i am proof people can improve and evolve if they are honest with themselves, and work at it.

[ProfessorGAC]

103. Ah! That Explains A Whole Lot

Sorry i picked at that scab, WB.
GAC

[William Bloode]

106. Not a problem PG.

I have found talking about such things helps me too improve.

[wicket]

80. I've always found that those who are the most homophobic...

...usually end up being gay themselves. What a moron. :eyes:

[dysfunctional press]

84. he has every right to like or dislike whoever he wants...

personally, i hate republicans.

[swimboy]

95. He has a right to speak thus and society has a right to marginalize him for it.

[Strawman]

86. Mike Greenberg is doing an awesome job with this discussion this morning

He is encouraging the dialogue on this issue while taking a stand against "homophobic" (maybe heterosexist is a better term) speech. He's putting a chunk of his audience at risk for something he believes in and I respect that alot.

One of the great things about sports is that it "brings everybody together," but one of the bad things about that is that it allows us to ignore these kinds of uncomfortable, sometimes ugly, but necessary conversations. Sports talk is always political. It's merely based on a watered down notion of a politics of freindship that is ultimately a form of mass denial.

[k_jerome]

88. i wish i would have caught them this morning...

what was Golic's take? was there any audience reaction or guests calling in to comment?

[Strawman]

91. Golic is out today

Greeny said the email was split, not quite 50/50 but he sounded like a guy who had been exposed to some pretty hateful disturbing stuff. I wasn't in the car long enough to hear any callers.

[k_jerome]

92. i like their show....

they delve into things a little deeper than the typical sports show. hopefully he will continue to expose some of the things he is hearing, and maybe some things he has experienced as a reporter around athletes for so long.

[redqueen]

127. 50/50? But 80% of this country hates gay people!

:sarcasm:

[ProfessorGAC]

104. I Think The Risk Is Minimal For Greenie

Everyone already knows where he stands on things. He's a New Yorker who went to college in Chicago and now lives back on the east coast. He's a big city guy, doesn't hide it, and as a New York Jewish kid, he has never made any effort to hide his identity or his attitudes.

I would surmise that a preponderance of those who listen to that show expected him to have this opinion.

I'm not saying he's manipulating anything. It's what he believes, but i think he knows his audience pretty well, and they know him.
The Professor

[Blue_Tires]

165. i heard some of the e-mails he read on the air

the knuckle-draggers came out of the woodwork today---it was depressing

[k_jerome]

166. who was sitting in for Golic? did he have input? nt.

[Blue_Tires]

207. golic was absent....no fill in

i just had time to see the first couple of segments

someone was filling in for dan patrick as well, and he took some hideous calls as well...those comments by hardaway enabled ALL the soft bigots to come out of the woodwork under the guise of being 'politically incorrect'

shameful...i see homosexuality still has a LONG was to go before it becomes comfortable in the average american mind....

[dogday]

87. I guess it makes it alright if you just come out

and say it publicly???? NOT!!!!!!

[Tatiana]

97. These comments don't surprise me.

I think he's a closeted gay man.

[theboss]

108. Luckily, there are no gay people in Miami

So, Tim has caught a break there.

Ah....Run TMC....could you have three more screwed-up superstars on one team?

[redqueen]

113. Who wants to bet he LOVES lesbian porn?

My money's on YES.

:puke:

This guy should be made an example of. Bigotry is BAD, dumbasses! :spank:

[JackBeck]

116. That would make him straight.

And in DU-land, homophobes are closeted gays. Since ONE study was done on the matter. With only a handful of participants.

This place really makes me sick sometimes.

[redqueen]

118. *sigh*

:pals:

[JackBeck]

120. Thanks.

I barely have the energy to keep up with this today.

[redqueen]

123. I can certainly see why!

Jeez Louise...

[donco6]

177. Yes, everyone DU doesn't like turns out to be gay.

Pedophile? Must be gay. Especially republican pedophiles.

Homophobe? Closeted gay. Just acting out his repressed anger.

Wife beater? See homophobe. Plus add resentment in the simple fact that she's "in the way."

Hated politician? Gay. Gay gay gay. In fact, all hated politicians are actually having sex WITH EACH OTHER.



It seems the lowest form of life we can imagine here is being gay. :grr:

[Bluebear]

141. But lesbians were put on earth to entertain straight men.

Oh, and only if they're "hot", they have be "hot", so they can fulfill the heterosexual male's ego and fantasy of bedding two women at once. :eyes:

[redqueen]

146. Ugh!

Now I have that James Brown song in my head. (It's A Man's Man's Man's World)

Honey, it is so way past time for a BIG CHANGE!

[leeroysphitz]

128. Well at least he is honest about being a hate filed BIGOT.

:mad:

[tjwash]

131. I might be upset if I actually knew who he was.

nt

[donco6]

178. I have to agree there.

Never heard of him.

But he's still a total asshole.

[zonkers]

132. Ironically, he was the inventor of the "crossover" dribble.

[zonkers]

134. Well, I am sure some peole of Miami will not be patronizing his carwash.

Tim Hardaway US 1 Car Wash
3501 S. Dixie Hwy
Miami, FL 33133View Map
[phone]

[blitzen]

150. not inventor...although he certainly perfected it n/t

[zonkers]

156. I knew I was going to get called on this. Grrrrrr. You are right

[ooglymoogly]

144. clearly battling inner demons.

ahm straight you mofucks ahm straight. time to quit the nba and write a book on the cooking of goose.

[WI_DEM]

145. Admits he's a bigot

and an ass.

[npincus]

152. Ann Curry & Co. were laughing this morning when she reported it

on NBC's Today Show.

She apologized and said she was laughing because she couldn't believe it, and also blamed Al Roker, who was off-camera, for making her laugh.

[Stuckinthebush]

164. Ahhh ha ha! Oh how funny, Ann!

Funny sports star saying he hates gay people. Aren't those guys just hilarious! I love the ESPN commercials...funny...

Oooooo (wiping tears of laughter from eyes)....

:sarcasm:

[Virginia Dare]

174. How thoroughly unprofessional of her...

I've always hated that wench.

[kdpeters]

163. Well, Tim, I don't give a shit if you have a problem. Just don't make it mine. Capice?

That's the way I deal with homophobes. It's YOUR problem. I don't have time for it.

If you're too delicate to use the shower while I'm in there, get the fuck out and wait til I'm finished. Don't expect me to coddle your neuroses.

[raggedcompany]

170. a jock hates gays? SHOCKING. Next I suppose you'll tell me he doesn't read books? n/t

[JackBeck]

175. I'm trying to figure out how your post contributes to this discussion.

[roguevalley]

182. if gay people gave a damn, they would probably hate him back

but why bother? his self-loathing thing is going on pretty good I would guess. The dork. Another reason to hate basketball. :) Not that I need any ... ;)

[Celeborn Skywalker]

183. Asshole (nt)

[GreenTea]

200. Thou Dost Protest Too Much....Hmmmmm.....

[myrna minx]

203. What a nasty bigot.

:puke:

[bullwinkle428]

208. "I'm sorry I said I hate gay people or anything like that"...his "apology" today

Have you ever seen a more transparent and pathetic attempt at an apology?? :puke:

[scarface2004]

209. what about eddie murphy!!

remember he said 'i hate white people!' well?

[Meat Stew]

211. Doesn't bother me.

Whites, blacks, gays, whatever.


Get over yourselves.



Sticks and fucking stones

[cboy4]

212. That's because you sound as though you're insane. People with

brain disorders generally don't see things and behave the same way a majority of society sees things and behaves.

How else can you explain your twisted position on advocating name-calling?

Are you 3 years old?

[Meat Stew]

213. ?

Advocating namecalling? Who did that?


Brain disorder? I am handicapped...are you attacking that?


Why are you so angry?

[cboy4]

214. Check out post #211

And I'm angry because there are people like you who roam this earth and hate.

There's no excuse for it.

I don't care whether you're disabled or not.

[Meat Stew]

215. ??

Who do I hate?

How did you come to the conclusion that I hate?

[cboy4]

216. You used the words "doesn't bother me" in a thread about someone

who said he hates gay people.

You then inferred that name-calling doesn't bother you.

"sticks and fuckinh stones" Remember?

You hate. Just say it.

[trumad]

217. Dude-- You're arguing with a newbie who thought

the Limbaugh/Coulter skit was funny. Do a search on this newbie and you'll quickly see that he's as stealth as the sun on a bright day.

[JerseygirlCT]

219. Literally took my breath away. How horribly hateful! nt