My report back from my first Church attendance in decades.

[trumad]

OK--- it was going great until the Preacher speech in the middle. From my early Catholic days I believed they called it the Homily.

I got free coffee and donuts at the beginning. The church had a great horn section and choir... Everybody was friendly... and then the preacher got up with a scripture reading and a 15 minute explanation of why the church was a million bucks in the hole.

Apparently the last finance committee went on a spending spree for the church and weren't caught until the official audit. They did nothing illegal--- but--- they owed the main Methodist organization---whatever that is--- a million bucks.

How were they gonna get it back? You guessed it. The congregation had to dig in their pockets a bit deeper.

S0--- I told my wife that the next church she picks for me--- make sure it's in the black.

[hlthe2b]

1. snarf!

I was thinking you were going to say they singled you out to stay "after church..." Sounds like you behaved!

[Iris]

2. You know, I have no problem with this.

I see church as a community and sometimes financial discussions are necessary. I also think it is admirable that they priest laid it all out on the ...er... altar. He could have been deceptive and done a whole sermon on how God requires a 10% tithe and never even mentioned that the reason the church needs money is because of human error.

[trumad]

3. I agree... and like I said---it was all in all a pleasant experience.

but a million bucks?... damn....

[Iris]

6. yeah - a million box IS a lot!

[JVS]

11. You would not believe how much it costs to heat up a church

Especially given the demographics of some of them, and the preference among the elderly for warm rooms. When it's 8:00 AM on Sunday and that 120 ft X 50 ft barn with a ceiling that peaks at about 50 ft has to be at 72F along with the fact that the maintenance man or pastor turns it on the day before instead of really late Saturday night, and you're easily talking about a heating bill from hell.

[SmokingJacket]

29. How about keeping the coats on? nt

[JVS]

34. You try telling that to a bunch of 86 year old ladies

I agree, keep the place cold, but then someone gets pnemonia and dies, and suddenly it's cheap old JVS' fault

[goclark]

4. I agree ~

[goodgd_yall]

23. I've always though it took away from the worship experience n/t

[Gato Moteado]

5. i say just let them go under....there's another church on the next block over

and if that one goes down because it didn't know how to handle its money, then there's another one around the corner. churches are a dime a dozen.

[Javaman]

41. the church...

the OTB of religions LOL

[Gato Moteado]

43. hey, the repukes are so into the free market correcting everything....

....why not let it work for churches too?

[Bzzzz]

7. Glad to hear...

you're back from the 'dark side'...

[monmouth]

8. Go to the Baptists, they have superb music....n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

39. The Gaithers are

superb music??????? Eeewwwwwww!!!!!!!

LTH<-----running to put on some Mahalia Jackson. I need to be cleaned after reading that. :evilgrin:

[monmouth]

44. Sorry I meant the black Baptist Church....They are great...

[Exultant Democracy]

45. Or stop by a jewish temple and listen to a Cantor sing,

pretty amazing at least to an outsider.

[monmouth]

62. I remembe reading Neil Diamond studied to be a Rabbi/Cantor and then

decided to go into the biz. I have heard Cantors, they are wonderful...

[Gruenemann]

64. No, that was his character in "The Jazz Singer." eom

[monmouth]

66. Ahh, my bad. Great movie..

[monmouth]

67. Would you believe our brief exchange re Diamond is on Google already????

[JVS]

9. Donuts and Coffee before Church?

BLASPHEMY

The only reason for those are that if you've been fasting the blood/wine will go to your head and you need something to even your keel

[JBoy]

25. I thought you were supposed to get that AFTER church

To make sure you stay around for the service.;)

[trumad]

28. They had them when you walked in...

I said damn... before the sermon... not bad.

[rockymountaindem]

26. Yeah, what's this "before" business?

Furthermore, a real house of God has bagels and lox.

That's all I'm sayin'.

[rug]

31. Take it easy, it was a Methodist Church.

[JVS]

33. They'd better find better methods than that!

:grr:

[spanone]

10. raised catholic, church six days a week, we started each day of school with mass

the sermons were money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money moneywere money money money money money

[JVS]

12. moneywere? Sounds interesting

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. It's not just the Catholic churches. My elderly parents had to stop going to their fundie church

because they couldn't AFFORD IT! Every time they were there they were asked to donate money and felt guilty and ashamed if they didn't/couldn't.. It never ended, so they just said to hell with it...... Let the minister sell his Mercedes if he needs cash. THEY had bills to pay.

I don't know. I would think people would learn something from Tammy Faye and Jim Baker and Oral Robert's son and his family or the Gold encrusted Vatican? I dunno. Seems to me drywall would work in the Vatican....just as well as 14k GOLD?:eyes:

[SoCalDem]

15. Our monsignor had a mansion across the street from the country club AND

a carpeted garage..and yet every Sunday, he begged for money for the poor :puke:

[spoony]

18. The first church I went to in this country was like that

My friend took me and it was really unsettling. The guy's suit probably cost more than I make in a year. Everything he said was about getting "prosperity" and similar.

[me b zola]

32. A parable from popular culture

It reminds me a bit of the scene in one of the Indiana Jones' movies where the bad guy and Indiana had to choose which one of the hundreds of chalices was the Holy Grail. The bad guy chose a beautiful golden jewel encrusted chalice, thinking that the Son of God would surely drink from such a cup, and drank from it--he chose poorly. Indy, otoh, had a better concept of who Jesus was and chose a humble wooden chalice--he chose wisely.

[spoony]

37. That's a great scene :-)

[monmouth]

63. As a kid, do you remember the nuns with that damned clicker, we stood,

we kneeled, all at the sound of that clicker.....Gawd, years of therapy.........

[SoCalDem]

68. I was a catechism kid.. I went to base schools and had little contact with nuns

:)

[bobbolink]

19. You got a problem with the edifice complex?

Huge, sumptious churches, and not one penny for poor folk.

Yup, sure sounds like Matthew 25 to me!

:sarcasm:

[The Backlash Cometh]

52. Maybe we should start downsizing the churches to make them more

profitable? I'm just saying. Anyone can call themselves a deacon and open up a franchise. And when so many of us are not too particular about the denomination, does it really matter that we have so many spread out so thin?

Maybe this is just free market at play?

[LNM]

53. That's sad.

I'm sorry for your parents, that's gotta hurt, but it cracked me up when you said they said "to hell with it".

[Mz Pip]

17. My memories of

church were similar, but there was a whole lot of "NO BIRTH CONTROL" thrown in. This was in the mid 60s when the Pill first became popular.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Gato Moteado]

46. they only made us go on first fridays and holy days of obligation....

....one day a year was one day too many for school kids with ADD. you lose interest in the little clamp thingy on the pew in front of you after clamping your mistlet in it and swatting it around for 5 minutes. there's nothing more uncomfortable for kids than being forced to wear button shirts and ties and dress slacks with uncomfortable shoes and being forced to sit on a hard wooden bench for an hour while listening to some crusty old guy drone on and on about nothing.

stand
sit
kneel
stand
sit
kneel
stand
sit
kneel
JESUS SAVE ME I NEED TO GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE FAST!!!!!!!!!!!

[JVS]

13. Today was Reformation Sunday with the Lutherans

The Pastor talked about if the reformation was necessary, sin, the law's condemnatory function, Jesus, his sacrifice, our inability to contribute to our salvation, St. Paul's letter to the Romans, the obfuscation of the Gospel's message both now and in the 1500's, and God's grace and love.

Money didn't come up.

[spoony]

16. I LOVE Reformation Sunday

The idea that one person can stand up and, with just the strength of a loving gospel in their heart, face down all human authority gives me chills, every time I think about it. Nowadays I think about the monks in myanmar, and how it seems to happen over and over again that good people have to make stands.

Ah, I think I need to go watch "Luther" with Joe Fiennes :)

[bobbolink]

21. I like Marty Luther, good ole' Marty Luther played by the Reformation Band.

His five and ninety thesis
Just tore the pope to pieces,
I think the Reformation's Grrrraaaannnddd!

:hi:

[goodgd_yall]

20. I've gone a few times in the past few years

Can't stand the music! (Although I did like the high masses at the cathedral.) And...well, I just thought, the liturgy needs some real rework. They need theater people on their committee. It's all wrong---too much talk when you can have a very profound and effective silence.

Too bad you could not experience an actual meaningful homily.

:(

[H2O Man]

22. You seems

...well, nicer. I think it did you good.

[trumad]

24. snarf!

[H2O Man]

27. Even still,

in light of the "snarf!," you have a glow about you. A gentle glow. A gentile glow. It's as if you have been bored again.

[spanone]

38. love that....bored again!

[Lilith Velkor]

72. with a "gentile glow"

:rofl:

[unc70]

30. That is a lot of money. Probably didn't repay the bldg fund

A million dollars!!?? My Methodist church is huge and its total annual budget is _only_ $1.2 million. The only way I know that a UUMC church could owe that much to their Conference would be if they had not repaid the conference building fund.

Anyway, glad it was mostly ok.

I also went today, but our service was a bit different.

Rev. Greg Jenks gave the "sermon", asking for our support of the ZOE Ministry which he started. ZOE is a NC Methodist-supported project that is focused on the millions of orphans in Africa, the majority orphaned by AIDS.

http://www.zoeministry.org

A podcast will be available soon on the church's web site: http://www.chapelhilluumc.org
The budget for this year is also online for anyone curious about what the liberal Christians in Chapel Hill are up to.


BTW When you see news coverage of 70-80,000 people celebrating Halloween in the streets of Chapel Hill, our church is right in the middle of everying. The CH Police have their command center in the basement.

[knitter4democracy]

35. Wow, that's bad. How did it get so bad?

Most churches I know have more accountability for the board and various committees. People would've known something was up.

Man, our church has never even seen that kind of money. We had a priest a couple decades back who convinced everyone we needed a place for classes and coffee hour and got them to build an addition, but that's been paid for for a long time. Everyone's jittery about big stuff ever since that, and there's no way we could go into that kind of debt.

Btw, we always have donuts afterwards with more than that, depending on who hosts coffee hour. It's a Christian tradition to share a meal after a service, actually. Goes way back. It's not just a trick to get people to come and stay. ;)

[Ilsa]

36. My friend belongs to a church in the Catholic diocese of san Diego.

She doesn't like her priest or the financial situation. They are paying the cost of the bankruptcy for some priest who raped teens.

Of course, I can't understand why the Vatican doesn't bail them out or take care of those nuns they are evicting.

[Gato Moteado]

47. her church harbored a pedophile priest?

i'm surprised the parishoners don't surround the place with torches and pitchforks and burn it down and tar and feather the inhabitants and run them out of town.

[Ilsa]

61. No, but the diocese had to file bankruptcy because someone

in San Diego was a pedophile.

She dislikes her priest because of his crappy, ill-conceived ideas about how people should do things. And yes, she is seething mad over the pedophilia. She's a licensed family counselor.

[Gato Moteado]

65. i have no doubt that she was pissed about the pedophilia....

...hell, we're all pissed about it.

i'm just surprised the catholic church (and every church for that matter) is still in business. i'm surprised parishoners all over the world haven't finally had enough and taken action.

i know some devout catholics who will actually stand up for these dirtbag priests and say something like "those kids are just trying to destroy the priests" or "yes, the priests have problems but they need to be forgiven" or some other crap like that.

this problem seems to me to be far more widespread than anyone ever could have imagined. i went to catholic school on the NW side of chicago and the altar boys used to talk about one of the priests that used to touch them inappropriately and try to get them to hang out with him. they were creeped out by the guy. eventually years later he got busted for molesting a couple of altar boys and he got moved to a new parrish. i'm not sure if the douchebag ever got punished.

luckily i was put off by religion as much back then as i am now and i never got involved with that altar boy stuff. priests always generally creeped me out, so i steered clear of them all my life.

[Ilsa]

70. My friend and her fellow parishoners said they started putting

IOUs in the offering plate insead of checks, they were so po'ed about everything, including the harshness of their local priest.

[Javaman]

40. Maybe they should cut back on the coffee and donuts. nt

[tammywammy]

42. It's probably donated

When I ran a coffee shop, we donated coffee to a few local churches every week.

[truedelphi]

48. Doing elder care, part of my job can be to go to various Churches

I'm a retired Catholic.

I have noticed that at the large big city Catholic churches, it is very impersonal.

One of my clients had worked on his rehab exercises for two weeks so he could walk into the church and be there for mass.

The priest basically ignored him both on the way in and on the way out when we walked right in front of him.

The Presbyterians are a bit different. The minister (who might even be a woman!) will announce - "I see that we have Josie Smith with us today! Josie, we heard you'd been in the hospital and all of us prayed for you. I hope you got the card and the cookies we sent you! Gosh we are glad to see you back here at Church."

Mrs. Smith starts beaming from one ear to the other. How hard is it for a minister or priest to acknowledge a congregant??

[CoffeeCat]

49. That is such a crime....

...or should I say that it's a sin?

People do not come to church to hear speeches about financial statements.

That's such a disservice to people who go to church for spiritual nourishment
and to hear something inspiring.

Church's need money. Yes. However, it's such a shame when pastors and priests
do this to the congregation and use their "pulpit" time to fundraise.

It only turns people off. It's one of the main reasons I left the Catholic
Church so long ago.

I got so tired of hearing very little that inspired me, and too much about giving
more, more, more.

It's like a big infomercial with stained glass and candles.

[progressoid]

50. Sounds like it's time for a miracle.

[The Backlash Cometh]

51. I know the general area you live in Trumad.

If you haven't moved. Why would you be surprised, Trumad. Why?

[trumad]

58. It was the downtown Methodist church...

[The Backlash Cometh]

60. Oh, well. You got me there.

[Perky]

54. If you want a different type of Church experience check out a Vineyard

Very friendly...very laid back...great worship bands... very green.....and very apolitical.

[MLFerrell]

55. You let your wife browbeat you into attending a brainwashing sess- er I mean church?

For shame.

:)

[snooper2]

56. They didn't try to kill you?

[Parche]

57. WHY WHY WHY

CHURCH: A Waste of a good Sunday
:hi:

[trumad]

59. Nah--- especially when my Phins are 0-8.

[RevCheesehead]

69. So the finance committee was irresponsible....

and the pastor decided to place the responsibility on the congregation?

I'll bet anything that that pastor will be moving next summer.


I'm a Methodist pastor - and I hardly EVER talk about money. I spend my time talking about Jesus and love and shit like that. :hi:

[and-justice-for-all]

71. I highly doubt they are really in the tank...

"We need YOUR money and we need it NOW...for jeebus of course."

The Catholic Church has a insurance policy for all their fondeling priest. They have money, do not let them fool you into thinking otherwise.