Salon: Who Needs A Prius Anyway? (Many Non-Hybrid Cars Do Better)

[Hissyspit]

http://www.salon.com/mwt/good_life/2007/10/29/prius

Who needs a Prius anyway?
Plenty of new fuel-efficient cars pollute less than trendy hybrids, without draining your bank account.

Editor's note: This marks the premiere of Salon's new weekly column on living the good environmental life.

By Rebecca Clarren

Oct. 29, 2007 | More than a cloth grocery bag or a Nalgene bottle, today's accessory for any hot-blooded environmentalist is a hybrid car. For anyone who can afford the $22,000 price tag, a Toyota Prius and other hybrids announce to the world that you are someone who cares about melting glaciers and the fate of polar bears. People have always bought cars as status symbol. Where would the sports car be without the midlife crisis?

So if you want to pay more than $20,000 to reduce your carbon footprint, brag about your part in reducing dependence on foreign oil, and garner esteem from friends at the natural food store, go right ahead. Just don't be too smug. If hybrids are driving a revolution, it's a televised road trip to marketing heaven.

Hybrids aren't necessarily the most environmentally friendly car on the market, says Jim Kliesch of Greenercars.org. The Web site, sponsored by the American Council for an Energy-Efficient Economy, rates cars based on tailpipe emissions, gas usage and factory emissions associated with manufacturing. While the Prius and Honda's hybrid Incite get reported averages of 40 miles per gallon, they're far from the 60 mpg promised on the sticker for city driving. The disconnect is due to an outdated Environmental Protection Agency calculation for fuel economy estimates that fails to include air conditioning, cold-weather driving and high freeway speeds. In October, the EPA implemented its new calculation method for 2008 models. It now claims the Prius gets 45 mpg on the highway.

Part of the hybrids' green allure is that when they idle in traffic or at a stoplight, the battery kicks in and shuts down the polluting gas engine. Even so, several cars on the market, such as the Honda Accord and Volkswagen's Beetle and Rabbit, emit less than hybrids. In fact, Honda's non-hybrid Civic GX (it's natural-gas powered) tops Greencars.org's "Greenest Vehicles of 2007."

Some hybrids don't deserve any kind of green bragging rights. The Lexus RX SUV is designed not for fuel efficiency but for speed and power, and gets an average 30 mpg. That's not bad for an SUV but a host of non-hybrid cars get better gas mileage. So why do hybrid owners deserve tax credits and access to high-occupancy lanes? Such tax credits are window dressing that allow politicians to appear as if they're doing something to help the environment, says Jamie Kitman, the New York bureau chief for Automobile magazine. Congress hasn't increased the federal mileage standard in new trucks and cars since 1985. While the Senate has proposed requiring new automobiles to deliver 35 mpg by 2020; the effort is being derailed not only by Detroit's Big Three but by Prius-maker Toyota, the company that claims to be "moving America forward."

In reality, the cheapest and simplest way to cut carbon emissions is with small, lightweight cars that get good gas mileage. This is good news for me. I'm a journalist. This means I can look forward to a life of small paychecks, and for now hybrids are too expensive for me. So I set out to find a hybrid alternative that can still get me to the mountains, soccer games and, yes, the natural food store.

MORE

[Generic Brad]

1. I'm intrigued by the car made by MDI

It runs on compressed air.

[Tesha]

28. Compressed air doesn't have enough energy density and...

Compressed air doesn't have enough energy density and
it has the thermodynamic problem that the air gets very
hot when compressed and tends to lose that heat (and
energy) as it sits around in the storage tank waiting
to be expanded again.

Tesha

[Tyler Durden]

30. MDI cars have a different cycle.

They use a compressed to high heat air injection into a cold air-in-cylinder design. This produces the expansion, not the pressure in the air tank.

You really have to look at the cycle to see how it works.

[Tesha]

32. Yeah sure, whatever you say.

And all those pesky "gas laws" are wrong.

Tesha

[karlrschneider]

34. Boyle? Bernoulli? Charles? MORONS!!!!

:P

[Tyler Durden]

43. I have enough physics to have a physics major.

The cycle uses a pre-compression approach where OUTSIDE air is taken in and filtered, then compressed in a small cylinder to create heat. The four drive cylinders in turn take free air from the pressure tank at a staggered section of the rotation (the pistons spend 70% of the syncopated cycle at top dead center). Then the extremely HOT compressed air is released into the COLD free air causing expansion in the cylinder.

The compressed air doesn't supply the push. Granted, this limits range, but the lightness of the vehicles with a projected all out max speed of 100 km/hr leads to a top range of about 300 km.

[Tesha]

47. Then surely you can describe for us...

> I have enough physics to have a physics major.

Then surely you can describe for us how much of
the energy is stored as potential energy via
compression, how much energy is stored via the
heat in the heat capacity of the gas, and how
rapidly the storage tank loses that stored heat
whilst sitting idle.

All in all, as with any energy storage medium,
you can resolve it all into so many horsepower
for so many hours. What's the answer?

Tesha

[Tyler Durden]

56. The heat is not created in the storage tank.

Examine this instead:
http://www.theaircar.com/howitworks.html

and the refueling scenarios:
http://www.theaircar.com/station.html

how the articulated piston works:


actually, they've done the math for me:
http://www.theaircar.com/data_sheet.html

I could make posts from their menus, but why not just have a look for yourself?

[Tesha]

57. I didn't say the heat *WAS* created in the storage tank.

> The heat is not created in the storage tank.

I didn't say the heat *WAS* created in the storage tank.

But it certainly had better be stored in the storage
tank or you've wasted a lot of the energy that is
contained within the compressed air. (And our good
friend Jacques Charles can tell you just how much.)


> actually, they've done the math for me:
> http://www.theaircar.com/data_sheet.html
>
> I could make posts from their menus, but why not just have a look for yourself?

Ahh, "46 MJ" *INPUT*. (They don't specify output.)
But for the sake of argument, let's be wildly optimistic
and take the input work as the output work.

So 46,000,000 MJ / 3600 seconds/hour= 12,777 WH
12,777 WH / 745.7 Watts/HP = 17 HPhours

Golly. Seventeen horse-power hours -- that'll take
you far. But then again, the car they show in the
picture is very much like the typical early-design
electric cars with very little volume, few amenities,
and the like. So maybe it actually could manage an
hour or two at 35 MPH on that energy store. Or not

You understand that the LithiumIon batteries now
starting to be used in plug-in hybrid cars are already
beyond that 12 KWH energy storage range: the Chevy Volt
is expected to debut at 16 KWH. Also, hybrid cars,
plug-in or not, have essentially unlimited range,
unlike our compressed-air car. They also don't have
to manage to store 340 litres extremely hot compressed
air at 300 bar (296 times atmospheric pressure or
4350 PSI).

Tesha

[IDemo]

"the cheapest and simplest way to cut carbon emissions "

Got it right here ->

[Bluzmann57]

7. Of course, if one has to be at work while it's still dark (5 AM)

and has to ride along a busy highway around eight miles away, I suppose bicycling may not work. It would likely take at least an hour each way, and after a 12 hour day, I am not in the mood to bicycle home. Thanks anyway though.

[IDemo]

10. True enough, it's not for everybody

I have a relatively quiet 4-½ mile commute which takes 16 to 18 minutes, depending on lights. And I'm a fair weather rider. But there are probably a great many people in similar locations who could be biking with a minimum of effort and expense.

[Romulox]

18. Most people can cycle MUCH faster than 8 mph! Try 15-18 mph. nt

[Bluzmann57]

22. I'm sorry. You quite obviously misunderstood me

I did not say anywhere in my post about riding at eight miles per hour. I did say I live eight miles (or so) from my work and that there is a lot of truck traffic and that it's dark and that I work 12 hour shifts and...ah never mind. Yeah bicycles may be ok for getting around town, but there are certain situations where they are just not practical.

[Romulox]

23. Estimating that an 8 mile trip will take an hour STRONGLY implies an average speed of 8 mph! nt

[Javaman]

27. ? and hour for 8 miles?

I cycle 12 miles to work once a week (take the bus the rest of the time), that takes me about 35 minutes.

[Bluzmann57]

48. Good for you

I drive my car and intend to continue to do so since I have to be there at 5AM and leave at 5pm. Please do not judge me because I drive a car. You need to live here and understand how shitty our public transportation system is. For instance, busses don't run to a rural area where I work and they do not run at 4PM. So I drive my car. And I will continue to do so.

[Javaman]

55. No judging you for you not riding your bike, I'm just questioning your math. nt

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

49. Just don't ride it to TacoBell

because of all the beans

[Ilsa]

2. At the beginning, the article made an issue of the money one pays

for a hybrid. The 2008 Civic GX NGV is $24,590, suggested starting price.

[tabasco]

3. I have an Echo that gets about 45 mpg.

I drive like Grandma Moses and don't do much city driving.

I paid $6000 for it and it is built solid like Toyotas are supposed to be.

[robinlynne]

4. I jsut went to greencars.org and they don't say anything about gasoline fueled cars.

nada. not a word. I wanted to see that list of regular cars which are non-polluting, but can't find it.

[Der Blaue Engel]

36. That's because it's greenercars.org

I can't tell if the article is referencing both websites deliberately and just not being clear that they're completely different sites or if the second ref is a typo, but the ratings are on greenercars.org.

[robinlynne]

5. That list is from the american council on energy efficiency, not greencars.org.

[robinlynne]

6. This is interesting, but the info is all wrong. top of the list: prius.

no other car looks even close.

[Chovexani]

8. It really depends on how you drive

If you've got a lead foot, your Prius won't do much better than a standard car.

I don't have one (though I hope to have the funds in place when the new designs come out), but I've done a lot of research on them and most Prius owners advise that you change your driving habits to get the most MPG. This doesn't necessarily mean driving like Grandpa Simpson, but a lot of the asshole driving techniques won't get you far if you're looking to improve MPG (even in a standard car).

[papau]

9. I await the discussion of which plug-in hybrid design is better - Volvo ReCharge or Toyota or GM

Volvo ReCharge plug in sounds like the most interesting - if only it could move from concept to production.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/09/09/frankfurt-preview-more-details-on-the-volvo-recharge/

[riverdeep]

11. Anyone see the movie 'Who Killed the Electric Car?'

Great movie that shows how forces conspired to keep an electric vehicle off the road that drivers loved. Now:

"Congress hasn't increased the federal mileage standard in new trucks and cars since 1985. While the Senate has proposed requiring new automobiles to deliver 35 mpg by 2020; the effort is being derailed not only by Detroit's Big Three but by Prius-maker Toyota, the company that claims to be "moving America forward."

2020? That's fucking special. '2020? Yeah...that's not gonna work for me.'

Good article, overall. I'm getting a little tired of seeing environmentalism portrayed as a fad, even as a joke. Do we look at literacy as a fad? It needs to become the background of our lives and not something people wanting to look cool do. The problem with fads is, they end.

[robinlynne]

39. Ever since the film, I have been waiting for my electric car. nothing I can afford yet.

[mucifer]

12. Highway driving at 65 mpgs doesn't work as well with a prius. BUT

if you go slower on the side streets you get much better mpgs here's how you do it:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/articles/t-pulse-and-glide-plus-warp-stealth-in-the-prius-ii-for-maximum-fe--1224.html

[gateley]

13. I'd get a Prius to make a statement. nt

[Pavulon]

14. TDI.. Anything TDI (pics)

can run bio diesel and will get better mileage than its counter parts. From the jetta, which, unlike the prius, has a soul and is fun to drive..
up to the E320 BlueTec which is a very comfortable sedan and performs very well. 18k to 58K loaded.

All run on diesel. A time tested technology.

[kysrsoze]

24. Yep, and diesel hybrids are coming soon. I want one.

[Liberal In Texas]

31. I'd like to see a plug-in Prius or similar hybird.

You can get them modified after market now to be plug-in, but it's expensive.

[tammywammy]

44. I have a VW Beetle TDI, 42 mpg

:)

[Pavulon]

50. I LOVE diesel

I convinced my wife to drive a diesel car, I drive a diesel truck (to bad I cant get a toyota diesel). I get B20 and higher when I can.

Her car gets 35, she is heavy footed. Truck gets double what a purpose built towing vehicle would running gasoline.

Mercedes has come a LONG way since the 240D.

Diesels will make a great hybrid engine. It is efficient and will run renewable fuel.

[greenman3610]

15. I got a Prius this week, partially to make a statement

but reading about the "pulse and glide" driving techniques
gives me hope that I will really get a dramatic mpg boost.
I like the car, but to cover my bets, my next one might be
a jetta diesel.
The diesels are quite efficient, and as biodiesel becomes
more available from locally sourced supplies, could be
the "greenest" choice available.

interesting and surprising article on serious gearhead tricking
out diesels for ultra mileage


http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html

[Pavulon]

53. I run two diesels in Raleigh, NC

with access to B20 on the way to work. Both do well on the fuel. It is not that much more than regular diesel. The technology is proven and you can find a car ranging from 19k to 56K depending on what you want.

Diesel can be tuned in a catalyst reaction with propane in turbo configurations. However VW or Mercedes will frown on this practice. Diesel trucks generally carry a mandated 100K mile warranty on the engine. They are, however, expensive and don't fit the needs of most drivers.

Any yes you can DOUBLE the horsepower and torque ratings on large turbo diesels with boost and propane. 800hp by 800ft/lbs is not difficult. These folks are doing it because they can, not for a reason.

[Orangepeel]

16. The Prius might not get what the EPA says it does, but then neither do other cars

:shrug:

I'm still driving a 10 year old car, but I will probably get a Prius when I do get a new one.

I'm not going to drive a natural gas powered car because it would be inconvenient to fill. Should I do so anyway? Maybe, but I'm not going to. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't get a hybrid. I don't subscribe to the notion that because I'm not going to get an "A" I might as well give up and take an "F." Doing something and getting a "C" is better than nothing.

[CRF450]

41. Some do and some dont.

My car and the truck are getting right at or well above the mpg estimates. My dad's Crown Vic is the same deal. I think estimates were 18/26? And it averages around 23mpg.

My 01 Trans Am is rated 19/28, I average around 23mpg and have rached 31mpg on the interstate going 74mph.

My 01 Dodge Dakota is rated 16/20, the milage kinda varies from 16 to 18mpg. Kinda weird but oh well...

[Taverner]

45. I have a Prius - city driving gives you awesome MPG's

When I spent a day driving around Berkeley, never really going over 40 mph I avereaged 63 mpg.

Of course highway driving, it behaves a bit more like a standard car, and gets around 40 mpg. Still not bad.

Add to it some hypermiling (coast to stops, don't slow down for turns, etc...) you get some better mileage.

[bullwinkle428]

17. The article fails to address why the Prius, and EVERY OTHER VEHICLE

on the road often fails to achieve EPA numbers - people drive far too aggressively (pedal-to-the-metal acceleration, too-fast cruising speeds), underinflated tires, improperly maintained vehicles (dirty air filters impede air flow into the engine), etc.

One of the other posters mentioned cleanmpg.com - it's a great site to learn about all kinds of things that can be done to improve the fuel effieciency of whatever you're driving, and there are many posters who exceed (some by a great deal) EPA numbers with their vehicles. I can personally attest to averaging around 37-38 overall mpg with my Honda Accord over the summer, a car with EPA numbers of 26 city and 32 highway. It's dropped off a bit as the weather has cooled, but they're still above what I "should" be getting!

[taterguy]

58. THIS VEHICLE GETS GREAT EPA NUMBERS

The most fuel efficient way that I know of for getting around

[frazzled]

19. We consistently get 50 mpg average in our Prius (with lead foot)

We gave up playing the games that boost your mileage in a hybrid because it stopped being fun and took too much thought. We drive in heavy large-city urban traffic as well as take highway trips where we lead-foot it over the speed limit. I don't know where this guy gets his information.

If we play the mileage game, we can get over 60mpg in good conditions. The emissions? I'd like to see better information. The main reason we got the Prius was because it was supposed to emit 80% fewer emissions. We don't drive enough to make the mileage that significant. I would not have bought a new car just to get better mileage, because the cost of creating a new car involves a lot of energy usage. But our previous car was over 12 years old and had almost 170,000 miles on it. And we had to get it into gear with a plastic spoon. It was time.

As for cost, I'd like to see any new vehicle of the quality of a Prius for less than the $23,000 the basic model costs. We are not talking a BMW cost here. It is relatively modestly priced. My parents have the non-hybrid Honda and it's very nice and gets a decent 35mpg or so ... but they only drive about 20 miles a week, if that.

There is some kind of bizarre need to put down hybrids. Sure the stupid SUV hybrids get only 30 mpg ... but isn't that better than the SUVs that get 14 mpg?

[Tumbulu]

20. I get between 50 and 60 mpg in my Hybrid Civic

My average for the first 10,000 miles is 52.4 mpg. The best I got was 68.1 mpg for 68.1 miles.

The payments equal my gas savings monthly. I have had my Toyota truck for 17 years ( 240,000 + miles) and get about 22 mpg and it overheats if I put the ac on. We get 118 f highs in the summer here. I already drive like a grandma and now with the precise ability to know my exact mpg I drive even more as though I am riding my bike. Except when someone gets behind me, then I go up to the speed limit.

I rented a Prius- wow was it fabulous, but simply could not come up with the money for it. The Civic was far more affordable, at the time I bought mine it was about $4000 less.

I see hybrids as a way to begin the work of reducing emissions and waste. I do not see the advantage of picking on people with hybrids; it seems like one is playing into the repug game.

[Initech]

21. My new Altima can get anywhere from 35 - 45 MPG on the highway.

Seriously. It has a little MPG gage on the dashboard and it's been recording anywhere from 30 MPG to 60MPG depending on how I use the accelerator.

[RB TexLa]

25. But you can't display the same level of smugness from a non-hybird

[Javaman]

26. Most people who get a prius, don't know how to drive them anyway...

I've read enough comments on verious sites around the net of people complaining how they don't get the advertized mileage that toyota says it's supposed to get.

driving them is not like driving a regular ICE car.

When I drive to work in the morning, I see people driving a prius flying past me. It's really unreal. I'll do the speed limit and they will easily being going 5 to 10 miles an hour over the limit.

is it any wonder?

[SteelPenguin]

My parents have one, and with them it's a competition

Who can drive it and get the lowest mpg.

Honestly, more than saving gas, it's helped them be safer drivers. They're far more now sticklers to the rules, the speed limits, etc.

On another note, I have an 8 year old Honda non-hybrid civic and I get 40mpg highway in it, which is really only marginally worse than what they get (generally they're doing 40-50mpg, but they also live in a very hilly area. I would imagine in a flat area they'd get much better mileage.)

[riverdeep]

37. I can see it now,

the new way to rebel. Kids yelling out the car "Slow down Grandma!!"

I used to speed too, but the last couple years keep it slow, it's really so much more calming. And seeing those people who rush past me at the next light anyway, is a kick.

[SteelPenguin]

38. I just don't understand the hurry of some people.

We drive on a highway near us frequently, and the road merges with another highway, and maybe 200 yards past that is the next exit. Well I was going the speed limit, and the other day a person behind me, revved up, sped past me, then braked and merged in front of me (there was alot of traffic), and then they exited the road. Why did they even pass me, particularly so fast? Just dangerous. If I were a cop I'd stop all those people and give them tickets for driving dangerously if I could.

[salin]

52. I have become a much more relaxed driver, with my Prius

I used to drive between Ann Arbor and Detroit daily - 80 mph standard on I 94. Between then and now I have lived in a couple of different states and had relaxed a little. But accelerating at a little less intense pace (I still catch up), and learning to get to more "coast" speed where I can take the foot on and off the gas - gives me 5 - 10 miles per gallon - which adds up. While I didn't get 50 mpg the first six months I owned the car - I have "learned" from the car - and regularly get 50+ (over the summer got 55 mpg over a 1000 mile period.) All that said to confirm what you wrote. I periodically get blown by another Prius and think to myself - "enjoy your car, but you aren't likely to be enjoying the same mpg gas savings as I..." I don't spend much of my life being smug - but at thsoe moments, like at the moments I am driving among the biggest luxury SUVs (think: Hummers) - I do find myself getting a wee bit smug.

[DemoTex]

29. In Sept. I drove my Prius from SC to Dallas (2000+ miles) averaging 54 MPG.

Although I hate cruise control, I found that I averaged better mileage with the cruise control set for 65-70.

[NightWatcher]

33. my $14K Corolla gets 38 mpg on the highway

after gas hits $4 gal an electric car might be a good deal however

[wildeyed]

35. I thought about a Prius, but I bought the Honda Fit.

The Fit gets good mileage, and it was much, much less expensive than the Prius.

[riverdeep]

40. Hybrids, and everything else is a great start,

but something else needs to be incorporated more. Life Cycle Assessment (LCA). Figuring out the total energy used from cradle to grave of a product and how it impacts the environment. It's a holistic approach. As you can imagine, it gets complicated real fast. But strides in modeling and data collecting are getting better all the time. The Netherlands are way ahead on this, having incorporated it much earlier. Here's a straight forward (commercial, not personally affiliated) website I found:

http://www.pre.nl/life_cycle_assessment/life_cycle_assessment.htm

And to conserve right now, you could avoid left turns!!

"You wouldn't think of something as benign as avoiding a left-hand turn could conserve fuel, but Atlanta-based United Parcel Service (UPS) swears by it. In fact, the parcel carrier has technology in its systems that help map out routes that minimize the number of left turns the driver has to make. According to spokesperson Steve Holmes, avoiding left turns at intersections reduces idling which in turn lowers fuel consumption. "It seems small, but when you multiply it across 88,0000 vehicles making nearly 15 million deliveries every day during the course of a year, it adds up."

http://multichannelmerchant.com/opsandfulfillment/advisor/fuel_conserve/

[CRF450]

42. Hybrids are great and all but I wish they would build one that appeals to me!

Most of the current ones drive like crap, are really gutless, and did I mention FWD? No thanks. I prefer a nice performance RWD car, the hybrid one that Lexus (forgot the model type) makes is interesting but it doesn't get much better mpg than my Trans Am, and its not nearly as quick.

A hybrid truck would be really nice too.

[Pavulon]

51. E320 diesel

wife drives one. It pulls like a V8, goes like hell, gets great mileage, and will hold 100 mph on the interstate all day without breaking a sweat.

Does not break, is quiet, no diesel smell (stop in clean stations, she wears her hospital shoe covers, and uses gloves at the pump).

BMW has several 300HP offerings that they can not sell in the US.

However these cars are expensive new, but a GREAT deal used.

There is a hybrid tahoe but I would not buy one yet. I pull heavy stuff and find some vehicles better at this than others.

[spinbaby]

46. I love my Prius

I average about 53 mpg and, unlike the subcompacts I looked at, it has ROOM!

[salin]

54. Same here...

and this is my early mid-life-crisis car... The first car I have ever bought new - and I was going to buy a Mazda Miata. But loved driving my Mother's first generation Prius - and found the newer generation (2004+) great fun to drive.

[sendero]

59. I'm amused by articles like this..

... they act like they are making a point but where is it? That LNG cars do better than hybrids?

WHOOP DE FREAKING DO CAPTAIN OBVIOUS.

You'd have to be pretty ignorant to learn anything from this jerk. Walking is even more efficient, but it's not practical.