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Need some help: refuting "Unfit for Command."

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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:05 PM
Original message
Need some help: refuting "Unfit for Command."
Yep, it's the book o' Swiftboating itself. A friend of mine that owns a coffee cart I frequent loaned me this book, saying how she was appalled by John Kerry after reading that book. She's not a freeper, in fact, she's pretty liberal, but she said she was disgusted about John Kerry after reading Unfit For Command.

We all know that that book's full of lies, but I would like to know where I can find some concrete refutations of what's in that book.

Any places where I can look?
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. #1: Look at the publisher: Regnery Publishing, Inc.
They publish ONLY poorly researched right-wing hit pieces.

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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Gee, that was easy.
Googled: debunk Unfit for Command. First entry:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200409150006

Amazing how many of the "HELP ME DEBUNK/REFUTE" posts here on DU, considering how fucking easy it is.

Things that make you go "hmmmmmmmmm."

:freak:
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I saw that article when I googled, but that article's not a refutation.
Title is "Corsi attempted to defend Unfit for Command after Kerry called book 'a pack of lies'", and describes the media circus around the book, but I can't find refutations of the book itself.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Are you suffering from a disablilty?
Let your fingers do the walking with the google pages!

http://homepage.mac.com/chinesemac/kerry_medals/truth.html

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh040405.shtml

http://mediamatters.org/items/200501260001?f=i_related

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/

Again, what is your disability that prevented you from finding these?

It took me one minute.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Daily howler has a lot on this - all through that year. I used it with a friend
who largely bought into the book.

There are two types of claims - one Kerry is a jerk and doesn't represent Swift Boat Veterans - Impossible to refute.

The other is that he specifically didn't deserve the meddles he was awarded, that the actions for which he was awarded them were not worthy of the medals - that is and has been refuted.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. 4 of your 5 links offer NOTHING.

The homepage link you gave provides detailed debunking. As does the link I provided in post #8.

But the other four links you gave provide no evidence whatsoever. They simply state, "it was debunked".

Yet YOU call the OP names.


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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Please show me where I called the OP a name.
And please explain why you are a liar.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Post #6. "Are you suffering from a disability".

In making that statement you are calling the OP mentally disabled. You will, of course, get weasly with the words. "I didn't call the OP mentally disabled, I ASKED the OP if s/she was mentally disabled."

You know that is a crock of shit. I know it. Anyone reading this knows it. But you will probably convince yourself that people reading this will say, "ha! Good ol' tabasco sure showed him up."

They will not. You are only fooling yourself.

It still boils down to the fact that you initially provided the OP a link that offered NOTHING in the way of debunking then insulted the OP for pointing out that the link offered no rebuttal.


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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Maybe you should google "social skills"
and see what pops up.

why are you on a message board if you don't want to interact with people?
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Maybe Douglas Brinkley's book. But why did your friend read that hunk of trash anyway? nt
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Why? What assholes are you associating with that this garbage would even be a topic?
Here's how you refute that book:

You take the book into the crapper.

You sit on the crapper, and take the biggest, stinkiest dump of your life (a big meal of beans before hand, with perhaps some smelly meat, might make this part of the job easier).

You rip the pages from the book...

And you

WIPE YOUR ASS

with them.

Mission accomplished!
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VP505 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. You might find something here.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
8. Snopes

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp

This provides evidence debunking most of the claims of fact in Unfit for Command. For instance, the men quoted in the book are identified as "Kerry's shipmates". Only one of them really was. All of Kerry's other shipmates backup Kerry. As do many of his former commanders. Quotes from these people are provided at the Snopes website.

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm not getting the trash Kerry strategy
I know Hillary felt the need to knock out her only real competition at the time, but I don't get why she is feeling the need to beat him up now. Makes no sense.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Hillary isn't.
It's just that the book was brought up by a friend of mine, and I was looking for refutations.

Thanks for all the links, everyone!
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. I don't know either but the trolls got the memo.
They can't handle the truth that Democrats are war heroes and republicans are draft dodgers.

http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. Concerned
for your friend.

That's nice.



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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thank you.
Like I said, she's not a mindless freeper. She can't stand Bush, hates the war, and is pretty liberal. She was just given the book by a friend of hers without fair warning as to the lack of credibility of the authors.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. You should also read Kerry's 1971 testimony to the SFRC
and when you are sure you understand it, have your friend read it and make sure she understands it.

http://www.c-span.org/2004vote/jkerrytestimony.asp

Here is the core of why some veterans are unhappy with John Kerry. As Kerry was becoming a very effective leader of the anti-war movement in 1971, Richard Nixon set out to destroy him, and recruited John O'Neill and others. This spawn of Nixon have spent over 35 years trying not only to discredit John Kerry, but more importantly to them, the entire liberal, anti-war attitude that Kerry represented and represents. In the process they have manipulated the emotions of many veterans so that these vets feel a hurt that was not inflicted by John Kerry, but rather by the deliberate and malicious distortion of Kerry's statement.

I've excerpted below, the preamble to Kerry's 1971 testimony, with some main points highlighted. You will recognize one phrase as the bit that was snipped out of context and played over and over again to stoke anger against Kerry and the anti-war movement. But if you read it in context - and then especially read what follows - the ENTIRE testimony - and grasp what Kerry went to Washington to say - you will understand what a horrible distortion it is. Could Kerry's words have been chosen more carefully? Possibly. For the sake of argument, let's say the portion that has been highlighted by the right wing was "irresponsible." But here was a young man of 27 years speaking passionately with less than a day to prepare his words, for a cause that he considered incredibly important - life or death to people he knew personally. Meanwhile, the other choice who would be on the ballot in 2004, was off somewhere being "young and irresponsible." I'll take irresponsibility (if you call it that) for a noble cause over just plain partying any day, as the measure of good character.

I would simply like to speak in very general terms. I apologize if my statement is general because I received notification yesterday you would hear me and I am afraid because of the injunction I was up most of the night and haven't had a great deal of chance to prepare.

Winter soldier Investigation

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.

It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

We call this investigation the "Winter Soldier Investigation." The term "Winter Soldier" is a play on words of Thomas Paine in 1776 when he spoke of the Sunshine Patriot and summertime soldiers who deserted at Valley Forge because the going was rough.

We who have come here to Washington have come here because we feel we have to be winter soldiers now. We could come back to this country; we could be quiet; we could hold our silence; we could not tell what went on in Vietnam, but we feel because of what threatens this country, the fact that the crimes threaten it, no reds, and not redcoats but the crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak out.


Much much more at the link. Read it and understand it, and reflect on how it has been distorted by the puppetmasters to manipulate vulnerable people into hate.

That's chapter 1. Chapter 2 is the POW/MIA investigation that Kerry led with McCain, which had the objective of creating a protocol for resolving the remaining POW/MIA cases from Vietnam so that relations could be normalized. The backstory of chapter 2 is that between our exit from Vietnam and the Kerry/McCain committee, there had sprung up a cottage industry of charlatans preying on the families of servicemembers missing in Vietnam. These charlatans did not take well to their lucrative businesses being disrupted. They joined forces with the O'Neill contingent, and with the networking power of the right wing, were able to influence even more people with their lies.

We could add the enemies Kerry made with his BCCI and Iran/Contra investigations but hopefully by now you get the picture. The lies have been debunked over and over and over again but keep coming back because many of the people who have been manipulated into a visceral hatred of Kerry (and the entire anti-war movement, don't ever forget that), will not ever face the truth. And there is plenty of money to keep them cozy in their web of lies.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
20. Help! I can't find the internet!
Can someone help me please??? :shrug:
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-30-07 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
21. Some Links
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