Wow, let's all jump on Obama with both feet and stomp hard.

[Skidmore]

I hope you enjoy The War, Part Deux, under Hillary.

[rodeodance]

1. I think, sadly, that Obama is self-destucting without any help from any of us.

[Skidmore]

3. I don't think so.

I think too many people are busy playing the old game with old rules. Too interested in letting blood to have a discussion.

[zabet]

4. I agree. n/t

[peace frog]

9. Nothing so dire as self destruction

however, he IS running a less than impressive campaign: making waves where he needs to play safe and playing wimp on issues where he should be shining his considerable charismatic light. Get yourself a better campaign staff, Barack - who do you have working for you, Bob Shrum, fer gawdsake?

[Buzz Clik]

14. You have GOT to be shitting me! How many threads are dedicated to trashing Obama over this issue?

It's in the hundreds.

I do love the style, however. It's playing differently than the typical DU obsessions with Britney. In this case we have:

• Outrage over the lack of shared outrage.
  
• Total condemnation of those who DARE to defend Obama, or *gasp* refuse to denounce their support for him.
  
• The suggestion that he will, if provoked, "play the race card". (This one is my favorite by far. It violates three DU rules all at once.)
  
• Graphics, t-shirts, videos, and thread saturation.

Gotta love it. Well, not really. I don't love it at all. It's pretty damned childish.

[Skidmore]

18. K&R , Buzz, K&R....

You got it.

[MNDemNY]

2. Why he continues to hit himself, I'll never understand.

[AndyA]

5. Obama is doing it to himself.

I'm tired of the same old politics in America.

It's time for change, and it's not going to come from Obama I'm afraid.

[Renew Deal]

6. People are extremely short sited

Especially at DU. Obama is the only front runner candidate that opposed the war from the beginning. We can elect Hillary and we'll deserve what we get. She'll spend so much time trying to prove that she's tough that she's going to make Bush look reasonable.

I think that most of the noise on DU is campaign bullshit. A lot of people here don't care about rights. We've seen apologists for all kinds of things here. It just depends on which candidate people support that day.

Besides, I'd rather have a terrific candidate do a little pandering and win. It does me more good overall.

[Kagemusha]

8. They don't care.

They don't care about that.

[Basileus Basileon]

13. While Obama may have opposed the war from the safety of his obscurity,

once he showed up in Washington, he completely changed. He has not cast a vote differing from HRC on Iraq or Iran, nor has he introduced and fought for any new, meaningful legislation on Iraq--that doesn't really suggest to me that he's going to be a leader on tough issues.

I'd prefer Edwards, but his problems re:Iraq are numerous and well-documented as well. Since Gore doesn't seem to be running, there doesn't really seem to be a truly anti-war candidate out there.

[Renew Deal]

22. That's twisted logic.

Obama went on record (video) and said he'd oppose it before it was cool to oppose it. Hillary has been one of the greatest pro-war cheerleaders. Besides that, are you saying Kucinich isn't anti-war? Your argument that there is no true anti-war candidate is embarrassing.

[Basileus Basileon]

23. I don't think it's that twisted, but that's just me.

1. It's easy for a politician to say things. It's especially easy when you're a state Senator and nobody pays attention to you, even in your own district. It's hard for them to cast principled votes and to introduce principled legislation. Obama's great at talking the talk. But in walking the walk, he hasn't differed from Clinton on one vote. The closest he's come to ever disagreeing with her is on Kyl-Lieberman, where she voted aye and he didn't show up.

2. To post what I said in a different thread: I don't think DK is actually running in the same sense Obama and Edwards are. He may be out there on the debates, but he has a virtually nonexistent campaign framework, he consistently draws very little popular support, and he's got no real chance of even winning the Dem nomination. DK isn't in it to win it.

DK is in it to get his message out. In that regard, I completely, 100% support him. He needs to be out there, pressuring the Democratic candidates and making them confront the real issues facing Americans. I think that's his role in these elections--as the angel on our shoulders.

[MNDemNY]

25. Easy when he was not a senator

[gatorboy]

28. Exactly!

[MNDemNY]

30. We often forget the "mood" our nation and it's leaders were in back then.

Hindsight is always 20/20

[Renew Deal]

35. He's on video prior to the invasion saying he wouldn't vote for it.

It was easy for Hillary as well. She checked the focus groups and "decided."

[Basileus Basileon]

36. Again, that's easy to say when nobody's listening.

As soon as he got a Senate vote, he turned into Hillary Clinton, Jr.

[Toasterlad]

43. Lovely. Here We Go Again.

Shut up, gays. Look at the big picture. We don't have time to fight for your equal rights. We have to stop the guys who won't let you have equal rights, who are totally, completely, and in every way different from us. So stop overreacting, and don't say ANYTHING until after the election. After all, it will do ME more good overall.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. i thought that was hrc's position here.

[helderheid]

10. Wow, is it either Hillary or Obama now? Last I heard we had some other candidates.

[Skidmore]

11. Just reflecting CW, helderheid.

And the accompany BS that comes with it. How are you doing? Been a while since I've seen you post. I haven't posted much more recently though.

[helderheid]

33. I'm busy trying to start a career in real estate hence why I've been absent.

Good to see you! :hug:

[Skidmore]

42. I'm fine. Unemployed again and looking.

Between careers too, and wondering if I made a good choice. I'm getting too old for starting over from scratch. Good luck with everything. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope the BS doesn't pile too high and deep for you.

:D

[RiverStone]

16. Funny, I thought we were down to John Edwards and Hillary....

Good thing we all have opinions eh?

[Grandrose]

12. Thanks a lot...NOT!

It has been relentless opportunistic bashing and brutal to the point of overkill!
If you want to discuss Hillary go for it and not use Obama as flamebait!
:grr:

[Buzz Clik]

15. Welcome to DU in the silly season. "My candidate is flawless, and yours is inexcusable."

[Grandrose]

20. So true..thanks for the reminder!

Primary season is entirely too long...and silly as you so rightly put it.
I guess, this too, shall pass!:)

[KharmaTrain]

17. The Measure Of The Man Is How He Pulls Himself Out Of This

This wound, as many have pointed out, have been self-inflicted, complicated by other mis-steps that has put Obama in a sticky situation...how does he attempt to pull out of it. Does he stick with his "faith-based" approach and alienate the GLBT community...or attempt to make ammends and get the black fundamentalists (who vote Democratic) upset at him and into Hillary's camp? No one here put him in that situation, he did.

[Buzz Clik]

19. Interesting concept. We Swift Boat him, and see how he reacts.

okey dokey.

[Bluebear]

34. "We Swift Boat him" - utter bullshit, this is of his own doing.

[Buzz Clik]

38. Exactly what did he do? He associated with someone you don't like.

Not much of a crime.

[Bluebear]

40. Yeah, that's all he did. I am not going to indulge you, you just don't get it or want to.

[Buzz Clik]

41. The first time I heard about it, I raised an eyebrow. The next time,....

I figured the story had legs, so I was disappointed. The next ten times, I figured it was just DU being DU.

And then there were 50+ threads per day for three days in a row, and I no longer gave a shit.

So, yeah. I get it. We all get it. We got it quite some time ago.

Call Obama on the phone. Vote for someone else. Start a new party.

But we do not need any more new threads.

[Cha]

26. Shit Happens and it's how

you clean it up. Things evolve..sometimes there's hidden silver linings in masses of dark clouds. We're gonna see.

And not just the GLBT community but those of us who believe in civil rights for all..not just the people in power who dictate when they get their own raises and state of the art medical bennies.

[Bumblebee]

21. It has nothing to do with Hillary -- but since you mentioned it, here

is a HUGE difference. In playing tough about Iran et al, she is responding to other people's prejudices ABOUT HER, i.e. being a woman, so she is "Thatchering" it a bit. It does not mean she wants to -- it means she feels she has to. Obama's pandering was entirely at other people's expense, not at his own -- and for me this is a crucial difference even though the results may be equally unfortunate. I did not lose all my respect for Hillary because of what she did since, politically, being the first women considered for presidency, she pretty much had to vote yes (and I still would have respected her much more if she voted no), but Obama was under no constraints of that sort, let's be real here. This one was MUCH uglier. Someone will say but what about the consequences and how lethal they are going to be because of Hillary's vote on Iran. This is lethal too -- for many teenagers who are struggling out there because they are afraid that their parents and friends would abandon them once they know the truth. Well, guess what, now Obama abandoned them, and I am sure for quite a few youngsters of voting age who are gay he probably was their candidate.

[bigwillq]

24. There's other candidates to vote for

besides Obama and the Hill.

Dodd and Biden have been doing a great job lately and of course, DK, is my pick! But if we are not satisfied with Hillary or Obama we can do something about it...like vote for someone else and stop letting the media decide who are candidate will be.

[mondo joe]

27. Whether Hillary or Obama is nominated and elected, there will still be The War, Part Deux.

* isn't leaving a good situation. Someone will have to deal with it.

[WinkyDink]

29. Obama is too inexperienced. IMHO.

[book_worm]

31. Obama, thus far, has run a listless campaign and the latest controversy is his own doing.

[mondo joe]

32. When Obama gives a bigot an audience to jump on me and stomp hard,

he'll get the same in response.

Thanks!

[Beausoir]

37. Vote for Obama or there will be more war!! Be afraid!!

Melodramatic, much?

[AtomicKitten]

39. The end result of the jihad apparently hasn't been processed by some.

Obama has been right on the war all along, the other leading contenders not so much.