****** Official Debate Thread 4? ******

[helderheid]

[tekisui]

1. We need it, I'm on.

[helderheid]

4. thanks!

I think :)

[Solly Mack]

2. Thank you

[spooky3]

3. oh good, Osama getting a chance to address the Mitt R BS

[slowry]

11. ...

[Renew Deal]

70. Osama who?

[spooky3]

134. it was a weak attempt at a joke

over Mitt's mixing up the names

[liberalmuse]

5. Oh shit, Hillary is making sense.

She actually seems to be realistic about the shit Bush is going to leave behind. Someone slap some sense into me!

[ellisonz]

19. She refusing to talk about what she'll do in in 2009. She's obfuscating.

[me b zola]

40. Here ya go:

She's lying about her plans for social security. There is a current thread in GD Politics that has a link to her "American Dream Initiative" where she plans to set up personal savings accounts, very similar if not the same, as what the republicans were trying to shove down our throats, the first step in dismantling SS and a huge give away to Wall Street.

I can't believe the other candidates didn't call her on this BS she was talking about tonight re SS.

[cuke]

50. Abosilutely untrue

some "progressives" don't like savings plans

[me b zola]

173. I didn't like the idea of "savings plans" at the expense of SS

...when the republicans were trying to shove it down our throats, I don't like it from anyone in the democratic party either. I also think that Wall Street is making plenty of $$ and doens't need any more corporate welfare.

Could you enlighten me on how her initiative is different from the republican plan?

[ellisonz]

52. Barack did.

[rodeodance]

98. i did not see it----

[TwilightZone]

48. It's a realistic answer.

Cleaning up after Bush is going to be extremely difficult.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

6. Thanks! #3 was a monster! nt

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

7. Timbo is contaminating the waters with his chum questions.

MKJ

[TahitiNut]

33. Timmy wants to see Obama and Clinton fight. Melodrama. Tabloid TV.

Mud wrestling. :puke:

[spanone]

8. thanks hh

[Catchawave]

9. YES thank helderheid !

[YDogg]

10. Obama has confidence in the american people

whatever. re: the question about his name being mis-used by stoopid asshat republicans.

A large number of american people are dumbasses.

[More Than A Feeling]

I thought that was an alright answer

Not enough to make up for the Social security rhetoric, but alright.

[tekisui]

12. Do not fear the swiftboating.

[AlCzervik]

13. you know is she does win the nod and the media piles on her there is a chance the public

will start looking at her as a victim.

[ShortnFiery]

22. IMO, one does NOT ever win The Presidency of The United States by

being a good victim. :shrug:

[AlCzervik]

35. i didn't say it was right but when she was running in NY the first time it seemed people

got tired of her being attacked all the time by her opponent.

[ShortnFiery]

133. It's a far cry and "many years" since that sympathetic time. We can't count on that. n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

24. you are right--and it is close to that now

Both Richardson and Biden agree with you!

[patrice]

pretty much the way I feel and I'm ag'in' 'er. nt

[patrice]

pretty much the way I feel and I'm ag'in' 'er. nt

[RebelSansCause]

14. why do i not have faith in the american people? n/t

[rucky]

15. So many questions about politics and campaign strategy.

It's getting meta meta.

[TahitiNut]

16. *** Debate Talk Clock *** (Read it and weep.)

[TwilightZone]

27. Considering that just about every question and/or response is targeted at Hillary.

It isn't surprising.

[Mojambo]

29. That's just outrageous. n/t

[Gregorian]

It's that damned corporate clock. It runs too fast.

Daylight Conservative time.

[goodgd_yall]

34. Hey, good visual

Now we can see it's not just our imagination.

[rucky]

36. They'd all make great Pez dispensers. n/t

[gateley]

47. Thanks TN -- it's worse than I thought!! nt

[gateley]

106. Biden, in answer to what we can do IMMEDIATELY, said we need to finance

emergency heating.

He's the only one so far that addressed what we need to do THIS WINTER.

I know he referred to why the oil is so high, but at the end he gave the right answer.

[Renew Deal]

Thanks for posting that,

That's terrific!

[Colobo]

17. Obama is having a very good performance. Loving it.

[Evergreen Emerald]

37. you and I are watching very different debates

He is looking desperate in his attempt to attack Clinton.

[Windy]

58. Hardly. He is articulate and a statesman

[hootinholler]

18. I don't know how much more of this shit I can take!

I think Dennis should start stripping. One piece of clothing for each question or issue that bypasses him.

:evilgrin:

-Hoot

[More Than A Feeling]

31. That will make the rest of us want to pay even less attention to him

Now, his wife, on the other hand.

[Blackhatjack]

20. You can hear the arrogance when Timmy asks a question. Why is He Here?

[xiamiam]

21. obama is unconvincing tonight...a little forced and rehearsed...nt

[Colobo]

28. His performance is excellent.

[tekisui]

30. And Clinton sounds defensive and canned.

[rodeodance]

139. she has not been asked many questions about her plans-most are forcing

her to defend her past or what she has said.

[rodeodance]

140. she has not been asked many questions about her plans-most are forcing

her to defend her past or what she has said.

[ShortnFiery]

32. As usual, Obama is thoughtful and well spoken tonight.

Wow, we differ, how odd? :crazy:

[ellisonz]

45. Compared to Hillary?

ROFL

[xiamiam]

54. well tonight its biden so far for me..normally kucinich but he doesnt get to say anything..

[MiniMe]

23. Why did they lock thread 3 already?

[spooky3]

78. it was getting too long

[msongs]

25. let's have the next debate WITHOUT manny moe and jack please nt

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

26. Hill shrill/annoying/unlikable, obama vague/confusing, Edwards cheap shots and self-satisfied snark

I'm not liking the top three at all tonight.

[MiniMe]

and Richardson is pandering. I'm liking Biden and Dodd in this one.

[papau]

118. I agree - Dodd is looking very good - never thought it would happen :-)

[Colobo]

39. What's vague about Obama?

[msongs]

41. yeah but he's the son of a mill worker who became a trial lawyer nt

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

44. Dodd and Kucinich forcefurespectable but not engaging. Richardson is a sad puppy wanting to be liked

[More Than A Feeling]

46. Agreed on Hillary, Obama is being bland, strong disagreement on Edwards

Edwards is at his best when he is being fiery, and he's bringin' the heat tonight!

[Blackhatjack]

You must be watching another debate when it comes to Edwards.... he is do well.

[spooky3]

72. uh, could you try actually refuting what they are saying?

and is there any candidate that you like?

[Blackhatjack]

38. Edwards is on the mark tonight ... and the choice is even more clear.

I think things will pick up between JRE - HRC -BO from here on in.

[ShortnFiery]

59. I must concur, and I'm equally "in like" with both Obama and Edwards. But Edwards is "in the zone"

this evening. :thumbsup:

[cuke]

42. cuke review

Obama is dead man walking - not helping himself at all
Edwards - doing OK, making an impression but better be careful of taking it too far
Biden - great, manages to spread his criticism around with humor, sounds reasonable and intelligent, no pat answers
RIchardson - doing a bit better. no deer caught in the headlights tonight
DK - bringing up the issues that are being ignored
Dodd - did well for himself. Sounds like a leader
HRC - fending off attacks, a little too animated, attacking repukes not others and making her case

[Colobo]

49. cuke, a Hillary supporter who has constantly

shown a dislike for Barack Obama saying the guy is a dead man walking? Very credible.

[ShortnFiery]

68. Yes, Katzenkavalier - us regulars don't need score cards to know the players and agendas.

:-) :hi:

[pinto]

81. Let's not make it personal on the board, OK?

We only have a few chances to see the major candidates on one stage, at one time, in *their own words*.

[RebelSansCause]

67. wait, Hillary is fending off the attacks well, this is a joke right? i didnt see a sarcasm emote

i will say this.
hillary clinton doing well = :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[bdamomma]

Dennis said it IMPEACHMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hell yes.

[hatrack]

43. Not watching - thread grazing, but . . . Has there been ONE question on global warming?

Has there been ONE question on energy policy?

Just asking . . .

[Bluebear]

51. Energy questions coming up now just for you :)

[tekisui]

55. No, but half an hour on the best way to attack Iran.

[goodgd_yall]

56. No, but Obama said something about it.

[MiniMe]

60. Bringing up energy now

[sandnsea]

62. right now actually

Although it's related to the price of oil. *sigh*

[Gregorian]

63. Brian Williams is just asking about $100/ barrel oil.

Otherwise, no. Just head in sand politics.

[goodgd_yall]

69. More a price of oil question---not global warming

[Steepler0t]

53. I got on finally

mms://msnbc.wm.llnwd.net/msnbc_1_live_8824?e=1193789369&h=79251f0684a1fdcb9d225c0cc21fd95d

paste that into media player if you are getting annoyed with vid not available on MSNBC site.

I just got on right before commercial.

Looking at timmehs ugly face now.

They back

[hatrack]

"Looking at timmehs ugly face now." - That's why I'm not watching!

:toast:

[Pastiche423]

153. Thank you VERY much for the link

[Neshanic]

57. All our dreams realized and problems solved in a 30 second shot.

[More Than A Feeling]

61. *snicker*

[Renew Deal]

64. Yay!

[opihimoimoi]

65. The Hill, shrill at times, but more than holding her own...knockout punch not in sight

[Cameron27]

71. I don't think she was shrill

but she's more than holding her own, I agree with you.

[rodeodance]

66. wish Dodd would get more talk time

[AlCzervik]

74. me too, not gonna happen.

[opihimoimoi]

76. I like the dude...but...there seems to be something about Dodd...he is at 1%

[MiniMe]

103. He hasn't been getting the press. Only the top 3 have

[patrice]

125. He's Courageous on the Carbon Tax. nt

[Blackhatjack]

73. Edwards will investigate the oil companies - which has never been done before.

He will ask people to sacrifice together to conserve energy.

[tekisui]

80. Are you in the future?

I am a full minute behind on the msnbc webstream.

[Blackhatjack]

91. Broadband Cable Roadrunner premium

[ShortnFiery]

84. Yes, what a novel thought - to care for each other and the common good as "A Nation"?

WOW! :-) Edwards is ON tonight.

[Ninga]

He continues to be steady, focused and very presidential. If he is able to overcome

the dollars and the polls, he will make a stellar president.

[More Than A Feeling]

75. Damn, I thought for a second that Edwards was going to blast ethanol.

Wishful thinking, I'm afraid.

[cuke]

77. HRC on energy - sounding knowledgeable and detailed

[ShortnFiery]

You must be joking - I heard ZERO detail but a lot of "fighting republicans" every year.

:shrug:

[Neshanic]

79. Edwards is perfect! He's putting them over the fence.

[zabet]

82. Biden.

If the next president does not make
him Sec of State, they are dumber
than dubya.

[Bluebear]

83. Edwards will have his Justice Dept investigate the oil companies.

Good.

[Steepler0t]

90. The investigating oil companies was good n/t

Good point Edwards made.

[ShortnFiery]

115. Good! Yes, may I suggest it was "Beautiful" - Big Oil is running rough shod over our

foreign and domestic policy and it must be reigned in.

Go John Edwards! :thumbsup:

[Gregorian]

85. Finally, leaders discussing the real sacrifice. Energy conservation.

Not since Carter have I heard talk like this. Edwards sounded very good. Kucinich, the war in Iraq is about oil. Lots of good talk here.

[Mojambo]

86. Dodd and Edwards have done well. Obama has been middling. Hillary has been off.

Wish I could hear more from Biden and Kucinich.

Richardson is a train wreck.

[Bonobo]

87. Uh-OH. DK is speaking TROOOTH!

[tekisui]

93. can't wait to hear it!

[Bonobo]

101. Nande "Tekisui"?

[tekisui]

149. Tekisui---Drop of Water.

I am but one drop of water, as we all are. We make up the river that can carve mountains.

[Bonobo]

156. Narrrrrruhodo.

[Bonobo]

96. Yeowch! Dennis! On fire!

[goodgd_yall]

88. Obama: make auto companies increase fuel efficiency of vehicles

[Colobo]

104. Obama's talking sense once again.

[spanone]

89. DK. there he goes with that pesky Constitution again.

:sarcasm:

[spanone]

95. He SAID it IMPEACHMENT GO DENNIS

[bdamomma]

135. and Dennis is questioning *'s mental state!!!!

this man knows what the hell is happening.

[xiamiam]

92. Kucinich says exactly what I want to hear...I cant help it, I so admire him..nt

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

94. Obama very cool, as in "cool medium." Good TV. Only he and Biden are *talking*

[Colobo]

Glad you are appreciating it.

[Individualist]

97. KOOCH!

[ellisonz]

122. I LOVE KOOCH!!!

[itsrobert]

99. Did Edwards get these questions before the debate?

Because he's hitting all of them out of the ballpark.

[Catchawave]

113. These have always been his positions....his lucky night :)

[RebelSansCause]

100. DENNIS with truth, why is he the only sane one? dennis president, biden VP,colbert humor advisor n/t

[Mojambo]

102. Can someone link me a stream that actually works? Thanks. n/t

[Steepler0t]

111. Here

mms://msnbc.wm.llnwd.net/msnbc_1_live_8824?e=1193789369&h=79251f0684a1fdcb9d225c0cc21fd95d

[Mojambo]

127. Thanks. n/t

[RufusTFirefly]

128. I'm using this (with sporadic success)

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspanradio.asp?Cat=Series&Code=CSR&ShowVidNum=30&Rot_Cat_CD=&Rot_HT=&Rot_WD=&ShowVidDays=30&ShowVidDesc=&ArchiveDays=30

[BootinUp]

105. Richardson promising us the world.... n/t

[Renew Deal]

114. Nice observation

And you are correct. "I won't be vague. You can have everything." lol

[MH1]

138. He recognizes that those items are what we need for a real energy policy

However, it is probably true that stupidity will continue to reign and those goals really will be unattainable in the next president's first term.

[BootinUp]

150. yes sad but true n/t

[zabet]

107. DK!!!

IMPEACHMENT!!!
:woohoo:

[tekisui]

108. IMPEACH~~~

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

109. There goes Kucinich, telling the truth. "Not worthy of this nation".

:loveya: MKJ

[Gregorian]

123. Preemptive war is not worthy of this nation. He's great.

[gateley]

130. Beautifully stated - Thanks, Dennis. nt

[rodeodance]

Richardson says we all to sacrifice for energy conservation

[rodeodance]

110. Richardson says we all to sacrifice for energy conservation

[Blackhatjack]

112. This is the Edwards who has been getting rave reviews on the stump....

He is a dynamic speaker and very intelligent. I have never seen him speak from notes in over 20 years.

[helderheid]

116. thread 5 ?!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2170308

[Gregorian]

117. :)

Good stuff. I've waited thirty years to hear this. Better late than never.

[goodgd_yall]

119. Carbon Tax---Dodd

[tekisui]

120. Who else on the National level is saying Impeach them BOTH??

Only Dennis Kucinich!

[Blackhatjack]

121. The Oil Companies Fear Edwards the Most --He would investigate them.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

124. Dodd being courageous as only a 1% guy can ( I agree with him 100%)

[Renew Deal]

145. I think he's being honest.

And I don't think he's being bold.

[rucky]

126. Williams asks another WTF question.

[Blackhatjack]

129. "When National Disasters Hit the National Community Should Be There For THem" -Edwards

[Blackhatjack]

131. "We Need A Surge In New Orleans ... Not Iraq"

[helderheid]

132. mods please lock this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2170308

[Bluebear]

136. Edwards: The pictures we saw from the ninth ward broke people's hearts

[journalist3072]

137. Whoa.....serious disagreement I have w/ something Kucinich just said

He just said the doctrine of pre-emption, is "not worthy of this nation."

I disagree with that.

I believe that if we have rock-solid, irrifutable intelligence that we are going to be attacked by another country, then we darn sure have the right to pre-emptively attack.

For example, during the Cuban Missile Crisis we had the ariel photographs as proof....and if President Kennedy had decided to act military, he would have been justified.

We have every right to implement a doctrine of pre-emption when our national security is at stake.

But I believe it requires an extremely high standard (i.e. the intelligence must not be in question whatsoever).

[babylonsister]

146. He's not a warmonger; he wants it all to stop, by everyone. Wouldn't

that be nice? Maybe not realistic, but that doesn't mean he doesn't plan on getting there.

[patrice]

141. Awww come on you guys! Let's say some more mean stuff about Repugs!! nt

[Neshanic]

142. Hillary stalker Russert attacks again.

[spooky3]

143. Clinton doing a good job with the tax/AMT question

[babylonsister]

144. Did I miss the question on the FISA immunity? nt

[Renew Deal]

148. Nope

[Renew Deal]

147. Hillary speaking riddles once again. "Want to do something about AMT." Won't tell you what.

"Moving parts"
"Not committed"

Focus groups haven't approved anything yet.

[DURHAM D]

152. Hello - its complicated.

I've got 60 seconds.

Can you explain the current amt in three paragraphs?

[BootinUp]

158. I'd rather

our candidate in the GE doesn't get pinned on a controversial tax proposal.

[sjdnb]

151. Shrillary, Dickidodd, Rack ...

The politicos ran out the clock,
Not one gives a crap,
If you or I have a hat ...
or a pot or two to pee in.

Gore is the only one who can save us (and, the world) from the mess we are in now thanks to the arrogance and greed of the GOP/GW Bush Admin.

If he doesn't run, I don't vote. Plain and simple.

[Renew Deal]

154. Who cares?

What does that have to do with this thread and why should anyone care if you're not voting?

[patrice]

160. There are people who will cut off their own nose to spite your face. nt

[sjdnb]

167. You respond like the Dukakis dickheads

who dissed the grassroot folks like me. And, that turned out well, didn't it ... NOT!

I'm not alone. I represent 35 years of campaign experience/networking as a captain of a significant voting block in a major metropolitan area.

But, good luck with your condescending attitude toward anyone who doesn't support your POV. It turned folks off in 1988, 2000 and 2004 and it will again. BILL Clinton got it ... obviously, Shrillary supporters do not.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

157. good for you.

back to your couch and remote with you, see ya later. MKJ

[NCarolinawoman]

155. Phony Edwards didn't visit NC hurricane victims back in 2003.

Fundraisers in California were more important to him. Hurricane Isabel to be exact. Cry me a river, John. :grr:

[gateley]

159. I'm SCREAMING! Biden has 4 minutes - 4 MINUTES! The least of everyone - Hillary

has over 18!

That is so fucking WRONG!

[NCarolinawoman]

161. Totally agree!

[gateley]

162. I knew you would! :-) MSNBC and Tim Russert and Brian WIlliams are going

to get scathing letters from me. It's painful to watch!

[Renew Deal]

163. I hate the way they do these debates

They should just run down the line. Equal time.

[NCarolinawoman]

165. Exactly!

[gateley]

166. I agree. For those of us who support non-top three candidates, we were

so hopeful this debate would showcase their candidate and give him more coverage.

It's absolutely shameful and insulting.

[NCarolinawoman]

164. Media in love with their own power.

:grr:

[gateley]

169. I think Joe is being very gracious - I probably would have stomped out the door.

[KoKo]

168. I finally turned it off...couldn't take it anymore. Kucinich got no time

and the Bloviating, Preening of Russert and Williams was making me sick to watch. I taped it to watch when i've calmned down...but don't think i will miss much. From what i saw Edwards was blowing everyone away and making them look small and pandering in comparison. BTW...i'm not an Edwards supporter...but he did great from what i saw tonight until I turned it off. Maybe he crased and burned in the last 45 minutes..but the early part was good.

[gateley]

170. Kuchinich got more than Biden. So have Richardson and Dodd. Hell, if Gravel

was there HE'D probably be getting more time than Biden.

I feel your pain and fury -- I really do. This is fucked beyond belief.

[patrice]

171. At least he responded to the education question with the RIGHT answer.

Extend the school year (amongst other things).

[gateley]

172. Yeah - his views on education are well regarded. His wife is a teacher so he's

got a good inside source.

[patrice]

174. So, he's probably for second chance schools too.

Something else that SERIOUSLY needs to be done.

[gateley]

175. I honestly don't know - I sure hope so, if it's important! He's got his plans

and policies on his site if you want to find out more on what he's proposing. I assume the other candidates do as well, in case you don't find what you're looking for at Biden's. :hi:

www.joebiden.com