Utah mall gunman was Srebrenica survivor, cousin says

[Dracos]

CERSKA, Bosnia (Reuters) -- The 18-year-old gunman who shot five people to death in a Salt Lake City, Utah, shopping mall was a survivor of the siege that ended in the Srebrenica massacre of 8,000 Muslims in Bosnia's 1992-95 war, a cousin said on Wednesday.

Sulejman Talovic, who was killed by police after Monday's shooting spree in which he also wounded four people, fled his village with his family during the Bosnia war to Srebrenica, a U.N.-protected enclave, Redzo Talovic said.

They spent two years in the town, during which Bosnian Serb forces besieged the enclave and Talovic's grandfather was killed by shellfire, Redzo Talovic said.

When the Bosnian Serbs overran the town in 1995, taking away and massacring some 8,000 Muslim men and boys, Talovic and his mother were evacuated by the United Nations and later reunited with his father, Redzo Talovic said.

"They were a good, quiet family, and I remember that he was a nice kid when he was 4 or 5, maybe a little bit playful," he said, standing in front of the burned-out shell of the Talovic family home in the village of Talovici, eastern Bosnia.

"No one could have supposed that he was going to do such a thing," Redzo Talovic said. "Who knows what made him do that?" He could not say what marks Talovic's childhood memories of wartime Bosnia had left on him.

Redzo Talovic said he was shocked at the news.

"I couldn't believe it. I heard that his parents are dumbfounded, they can't believe he did that," said Redzo Talovic, one of the few villagers to have returned to Talovici.

Talovic and his family never visited Bosnia or kept in touch after moving to the United States as refugees in 2000, his cousin said.

Police said Sulejman Talovic and his mother had lived in Salt Lake City for a few years, during which he had four minor incidents with police as a juvenile.

The teenager, dressed in a trench coat and carrying a shotgun, a .38 caliber pistol and what police said was a "backpack full of ammunition," opened fire at random on Monday evening, sending terrified shoppers running for cover.

Salt Lake City police chief Chris Burbank said the gunman seemed determined to "shoot as many people as he possibly could."

An off-duty police officer opened fire and stopped the youth from moving further through the mall before he was killed by police who arrived in force. (Full story)

Two men, two women and a 15-year-old girl died and four people were wounded.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/14/utah.mall.gunman.reut/index.html

[Virginia Dare]

1. Probably suffering from PTSD...

where did he get the guns and ammo?

[Swede]

2. The United States I'd imagine.

Lots a guns down there.

[Bonobo]

3. Get ready cause we're gonna see lots more of these soon.

100,000 traumatized troops plus no veteran care plus lotsa guns = lots of mall shootings

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[Catherine Vincent]

5. That's not nice.

There is some truth to viet nam vets returning with problems and not getting the proper medical attention.

[Traveling_Home]

6. Give me a break

The myth of movies and books that appeared about us deranged 'Nam vets was just that - a myth. Not that individual soldiers didn't have problems. My WWII father bacme an alcoholic and had to struggle with it. Your buying into some mantra about the sick souless vet waiting out in the woods to kill the psychotic VC stalking him in the hills of Oregon - right- sure - I believe you.

Do some research before labeling vets as crazy people if you would - PLEASE.

[Catherine Vincent]

8. No one labeled vets as crazy people.

Like I said, some did have problems re-adjusting back to real life here in the states and no one mentioned any movies or books about deranged vets. A person doesn't have to do research for realizing some vets have problems. Over the years there have been news reports of what this young guy did in the mall except it was done by a vet. Imo, it was a small percentage so you don't have to get defensive about the vets.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

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[EFerrari]

19. WHAT IS A VIET NAM VETERAN

WHAT IS A VIET NAM VETERAN
This is a question often asked by the generation of today. It is not an easy question to adequately answer because not all Viet Nam Vets will fall into a description given by one person. Let me begin by stating some facts about the Viet Nam Vet and then you will understand the complexity of trying to accurately describe him or her.

# During the height of the war the average number of Americans in Viet Nam was about 500,000. It is said a total of 2.6 million Americans served in Viet Nam.
# Of that 500,000 only 50,000 were in actual combat. (Usually about 10%.)

This fact indicates how difficult it would be to give a comprehensive description of a Viet Nam Vet. So what I will attempt to do is give you some statistics about combat vets and let you draw your own conclusions.

# We lost almost 59,000 men and women during the 16 years of Viet Nam. As of 5 years after the war was officially over, we had 150,000 Viet Nam Vets that had committed suicide.
# The suicide rate for Viet Nam Vets is 86% higher than the national average of peers of the same age group.
# 70% of all one car accidents is Viet Nam Vets (was it really an accident).
# 60% of all Viet Nam Vets have serious emotional problems.
# Between 50 and 60% have a history of alcohol and drug abuse.
# The unemployment rate for Viet Nam Vets is double the national average.
# The divorce rate for Viet Nam Vets is almost 3 times as many as the national average.
# About 25% of all incarcerated people are Viet Nam Vets. (Most are non-violent crimes).
# 56% of all homeless Americans are veterans, 44% are Viet Nam Vets.


from: http://www.capveterans.com/caprd_004.htm

whose Mission Statement is:

"The Production Company's mission is to portray, realistic stories from Veterans of the Combined Action Program and later on, realistic stories from other Veterans of the Vietnam War.

The human side of the Veterans will be highlighted with stories of their loneliness, their frustrations, their friendships, their kindness, their dangers and especially their fun.
All profits will be donated to the Cap Veterans Honor Roll Foundation. Vietnam at
the Movies Memorial of
Honor CAP Introduction Recent Interest Cap Veterans Honor
Roll Foundation The Cap Veterans Honor Roll Foundation Membership is open to all Veterans, Families of Veterans and all Friends of Veterans.

Praising Veterans This company belongs to its 'Entire Membership' for the purpose of laying to rest the negative, stereotype Vietnam Veteran image."

Interesting site.

[Traveling_Home]

22. Great Stuff Thanks

We take it out on ourselves not others. Sad stories with WWII vets too. Just watched Flags of Our Fathers - Ira Hayes always comes to mind.

[EFerrari]

26. Traveling_Home, I admit my back got put out when you were harsh

with my friend cat_girl25, who I know to be one gentle and thoughtful person. I think you and she are a lot closer to being on the same page than you know.

When I was searching, I found a lot of cockeyed stuff -- from both ends of the "yes they are, no they're not" specturm -- and toss in, imposters who claim they did combat duty.

Let's help each other out here with good info, with good links and maybe, a little patience. Imho, our people are STILL trying to understand what happened. And I bet you, we can do it.

:)

[jwirr]

10. So our family friend Larry holed up on his grandfathers farm and

threatening anyone who came near because they were the "enemy" was just crazy and did not have any problems from Nam? It is funny that when we finally got help from the VA for him that is is now fine?
Each action has a reaction and it is often blowback: the consequences.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. So I guess that vet that killed and ate his girlfriend...

was completely unaffected by the war.

[Traveling_Home]

14. Was his name Jeffrey Dalmer or John Kerry or John Murtha?

singling out a situation based on an N=1 study is garbage, crap, stupidity. Go get some stats from VA admin or PVA or .... on past wars and start learning rather then pass around rumors you hear from watching "DeerHunter".

Got a link to your cannibal Veteran?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. His name was Zachary Bowen.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2590814&page=1

[Tin Man]

16. Man, that is some frickin' weird shit.

[Traveling_Home]

17. New Orleans

A New Orleans murder?????

How about all the other murders in NO (Natl Gurad called in - highest in the country I believe) - all by Vets returning - or is this just the standard demographic. Out of 100 murders - 93 vets, 2 jealous husbands and a mad squirral.

N=1 tells you nothing. Go learn

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. So you're saying we can make general conclusions...

about New Orleans?

Exactly what are you trying to tell us, TravelingHome?

That Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder can't result in violence? Or that the troops aren't getting PTSD from the war?

[Traveling_Home]

20. New Orleans

has the highest murder rate in the country right now - Nat'l Guard on the streets.

Those aren't general conclusions those are facts.
===================

Vets do not have the highest or even an abnormal rate of the psychotic behavior bescribed in these posts - murdering in malls, eating dead people. Or do you have some facts?

Extrapolating from the actions of a vet to all vets is going from the individual to the group. It is prejudical and shows a bigotry against vets that's hard to understand and is undeserved.

Supporting ignorance that 100,000s of US vets are going come back and go into malls and start killing people like the OP said is foolish

"I have a friend ... so it must be true" is Bullshit

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. Are you denying, Traveling_Home...

That Iraq vets are coming home with PTSD?

[Traveling_Home]

23. NO - are you denying that the murder rate in LA would ....

cause anyone there to have PTSD.

How many PTSD vets are out killing inncocents in malls as compared to avg population. Remember that's what this thread is all about.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. Traveling_Home, the murder rate in New Orleans...

is in no doubt tied to PTSD.

As is, I'd suspect, this shooting in the mall.

[Marrah_G]

9. from what i've seen

Nam veterans with mental health issues mostly harm themselves and not others (except maybe emotionally). I know a few with heavy lifelong drinking problems, sleeping problems, anger (when drunk) problems. I've never seen or heard of anyone being attacked by a Nam Vet because he was "deranged". I am sure someone will know of one, but I personally have never run across it.

Chemicals, drugs and 3-4 deployments have me a bit concerned that we will see many more issues with vets from this war then from some others. Also the urban fighting, this is the first time we have really had so much intense fighting in residential urban area that don't look all that different from home. My point is its easier to confuse a bagdad street with an american city street then it is to confuse a vietnamese village with an american town.

[Swede]

7. It's starting already.

Please note: The aim here is to shine a sliver of light on yet another burden placed on our society by war. It is not to lay blame or demonize our veterans.
They are victims, too.




http://scoop.epluribusmedia.org/story/2005/11/20/191642/51

[NickB79]

24. I work with several Bosnians who fought in the war

One of them has told me stories that make my skin crawl. Finding villages empty and burned, dead bodies of men, women, boys, girls, all lying in the streets. Yet he's the nicest guy I've ever met. I've never seen him get angry, yell, or have anything other than a smile for you when you say hi. He must be a stronger man than me, because I could never handle that without cracking. I could easily see someone flipping out after struggling with PTSD for years after that bloody war.