Candidates that support giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants are unelectable.

[Renew Deal]

Which means Clinton and Obama will not be president. Kiss them goodbye. They're done. It's up to Dems to elect someone that will have a chance.

[More Than A Feeling]

1. Um, what?

I don't want unlicensed and untested drivers careening around the streets! Legal or illegal, we're talking about the safety of everyone on the road.

[Renew Deal]

3. Neither do I.

That's why they should be arrested on the spot.

[More Than A Feeling]

4. Which spot would that be? After they've already had an accident?

[Renew Deal]

13. Yes

And when they are caught driving without a license. Just like any other unlicensed driver.

[More Than A Feeling]

18. "Any other unlicensed driver" is not unlicensed because they were actively

prevented from even trying to get one in the first place. In fact, we make everyone else get licenses precisely because it makes the roads safer. I'll take fewer accidents in the first place by making illegals get licenses like everyone else.

[Renew Deal]

20. No one is forced to get a license.

And giving illegals drivers licenses doesn't guarantee fewer accidents. In fact, there would probably be more accidents because there would be more drivers.

[pnwmom]

33. Withholding licenses doesn't keep them off the roads.

It just means they can't exchange ID's with you if they rear-end you.

[Exultant Democracy]

46. Wrong, unlicensed drivers pose a major threat on our roads, this is about regulation

regulation is important when we are talking about deadly weapons.

[Renew Deal]

55. Licensed drivers are an even more severe threat and 80% are licensed

http://www.autotrader.com/research/car-safety/article-3196/AAA-Fingers-Unlicensed-Drivers-in-Deaths.jsp?restype=used

[pnwmom]

69. You don't understand the point of the article.

Of course licensed drivers are involved in more accidents -- the vast majority of drivers are licensed. But unlicensed drivers are the far greater threat because they are involved in a DISPROPORTIONATE share of accidents.

"Between 1993 and 1997, some 42,049 people died because someone who did not hold a valid driver's license climbed behind the wheel of a vehicle and drove anyway, according to a recent report.

"An AAA Foundation survey shows that 20 percent - one in every five - of all fatal crashes in the United States involve drivers who should never have been on the road in the first place due to the fact they were unlicensed."

[rodeodance]

67. yes, they need a drivers ed course to prevent accidents.

[pnwmom]

29. You're right. I want them to have enough skills to pass the driver's test.

And the only way to be sure of that is to allow them to take it.

[Renew Deal]

32. Who has more accidents, licensed drivers or unlicensed drivers?

[pnwmom]

37. Unlicensed.

Which is one more reason we should make it possible for everyone who is on the roads to be tested and licensed.

[Renew Deal]

54. Wrong. 80% licensed between 1993 and 1997

20% unlicensed. And from that, illegal immigrants is even smaller. More licensed drivers means more accidents.

The absurdity of my last remark is only outdone by the absurdity of those that support this.

http://www.autotrader.com/research/car-safety/article-3196/AAA-Fingers-Unlicensed-Drivers-in-Deaths.jsp?restype=used

[pnwmom]

64. I hardly know where to begin. You've completely misunderstood your own data.

The vast majority of drivers are licensed, so naturally they comprise the majority of those who have accidents. But when looking at the percent of drivers within each category -- licensed or unlicensed -- who have accidents, the unlicensed have many more.

[mondo joe]

72. Me too. But I also doubt many illegal immigrants would opt to risk identification through

the DMV.

[lonestarnot]

14. Well no, it happened to me and they collected her car.

I felt sorry for her, but that's what they do here. Effective. They couldn't get it back until they demonstrated evidence of license registration insurance etc.

[pnwmom]

27. The police don't come here when you've just had a fender bender.

You exchange information and then file a report with the state and your insurance company.

[Renew Deal]

31. You ask the other person for a drivers license.

And when they fail to produce, you call the cops because you're going to get screwed on that one.

[pnwmom]

40. Oh, I see. And you think the cops would arrive before the

unlicensed driver drove off?

Think again.

I would prefer to exchange driver's license info, then let my insurance company deal with whoever hit me.

[Renew Deal]

56. Sucker

lol like an illegal immigrant is going to wait for the cops.

[pnwmom]

65. You're the one who suggested calling for police. You're not making sense. n/t

[Purveyor]

6. Um, what?

I want illegal's in this country deported and the employer's that lured them here imprisoned.

[More Than A Feeling]

8. I want us to work with other countries to help them raise their living

standards so the incentive for illegals to leave their home countries disappears. And, incidentally, the incentive for companies to outsource would disappear too.

[SlowDownFast]

35. Agreed. n/t

[emilyg]

12. Exactly - I want to know who hit me.

[aquart]

2. Yeah, that's the number one issue. Yup. Uh huh. Really matters sooo much.

New York is okay with it.

[Renew Deal]

9. I live in NY and it's a disaster.

It's reduced Democratic affiliation before an election and there is concern about borderline candidates. Zogby poll says 65% disagree and that's in a state with huge immigrant populations.

Zogby
http://www.thecherrycreeknews.com/content/view/1907/2

[alfredo]

5. Clinton did not say she supported giving licenses to illegals. She

supported his at least addressing the issue of the 2 million illegals in Ny.

[journalist3072]

19. Exactly....I've been making that point here on DU all night

But of course the anti-Hillary contingent here on DU doesn't do well with reality

[alfredo]

39. If they want to help the Republican spin, I guess that's their choice.

[journalist3072]

63. And right aagain you are.....It's pathetic; they are doing the Rethugs job for them

Perhaps they should join in the dialogue at FR.

[alfredo]

77. We know they watch our site, I'm sure they have enjoyed the Hillary

bashing.

We should not be doing opposition research for the GOP

[msongs]

7. in Kal-fornia Arnold will really push that issue nt

[Quantess]

10. If it's true what your saying, that Clinton and Obama support that,

they're fools.

[babylonsister]

11. Oh, please. Illegal immigrants have been a boon to this country despite what

asshole Dobbs says. Why is this even an issue?

How about this goddamn illegal incursion, lots of dead, maimed, lost people all over the place, for what?

Sorry, it's time to say good-bye and get out. Whomever does that and broaches that topic gets lots of my attention.

[ElizabethDC]

15. I thought Dodd was the only one who said he was against it. nt

[pnwmom]

16. I think she had a good answer. Who wants to be in an accident with

someone who doesn't have a driver's license?

If someone has a license, they had to take an ability test. And they had to provide a proof of address. If they had the latter, they're less likely to hit me in the first place. But if they do, then I want that driver's license with their name and address.

Anyone who thinks that illegal immigrants would stay off the roads if they had no licenses -- or not come here in the first place -- isn't thinking very clearly.

[superkia]

38. So if 14 year old kids start driving illegally, we should go ahead...

and license them to, that way they have been trained? How about 12 year olds or anyone that is physically able to do it but not permitted by our laws to do so, should we then license and train them also? You idea here on why is horrible thinking. If anything, give them an ID (not one that says they are legal) that gives their name and address, problem is, how do you know their name is legit? I am like most that know of people that are here illegally and they often use different names because they sometimes get caught using someone else's social security number and have to get a new one and don't want to use the same name. Of course they always keep it close, so you would have an idea of who hit you.

Where does it end, eventually it will be complete amnesty.

[napi21]

17. If someone can give me a realistic reason why we should do that,

I'll think about it. They tried to do it here in Ga. The excuse I heard was so they could get insurance. That's no excuse to me. If you've already snuck across the border, are illegally employed, and are driving illegally already, why would I think you would even consider paying for insurance? Please!!!!!

I've heard about the "we will then know who they are", and "we'll understand just how big this problem really is", but I don't buy that BS either.

Give me a GOOD reason why we should do this!

[More Than A Feeling]

21. Why would they want to drive illegally and potentially unsafely,

on top of all their other problems? It makes them less safe, and it makes us less safe.

[napi21]

24. How about NO MONEY?

Most of the illegals are misused by their employers and don't make much money. They send most of it back to their family to survive. You're really going to tell me that they're going to dip into that meager income to buy insurance?????

[More Than A Feeling]

34. What does insurance have to do with actually avoiding accidents?

I'm talking about testing them to make sure they actually can drive competently. That's the benefit to society of licensing illegal immigrants. Insurance is a separate question.

[napi21]

44. Ohhh, BS! I can tell you I passed my drivers test the firwt time I took it.

I was a pisspoor driver then. The drivers tests here in the US check to see if you can memorize the answers to some questions, and aim the damn car straight!

[pnwmom]

70. Some states have easier tests than others. Plenty of people fail them,

especially young people taking them for the first time.

But if what you say is true, that the tests are easy, then all the more reason that everyone on the roads should be able to prove that MINIMAL level of competency.

[TwilightGardener]

22. What good does it do NOT to do this? Are they going to stop driving?

[Renew Deal]

28. Who's assuming they are driving?

Where's the proof that this is a big enough problem that it requires a new law. The current law works fine.

[TwilightGardener]

49. Please. Last year I drove through a fine ol' Nebraska blizzard and

stopped twice for cars that had spun off the road, a few miles apart. Both men spoke "no ingles". They both turned down my offer of help. It's silly to assume illegals are not driving, especially in wide-open states with next to no public transportation, like Nebraska.

[napi21]

36. Oh I see. Just breaking another law. No big deal huh?

Aorry, but I believe in at least trying to obey the laws of the Country I happen to be in at the time!

My son works in Sicily. He is living with a woman from Romania who overstayed her visa in Italy. She couldn't work, drive, have an address...nothing at all! Now there is a big difference. She couldn't return to Romania for 4 years because she would have been considered a fugitive, but she held out for more than the 4 years and returned to Romania and has applied to Italy for residency.

Although I sympathize with my son and his current girlfriend. She was WRONG for breaking the laws there too!!!!

[TwilightGardener]

50. OK, sooo...we just ignore the problem, and it goes away...gotcha.

[napi21]

59. I never said ignore the problem. I'm all for imprisoning the

people who hire illegal aliens. The laws already exist and just aren't being enforced! I would prefer tougher fines and longer sentences on the employers who hire them, but I can live with the law as it is.

If there were no job opportunities, there would be no (or very few) illegal aliens!

[pnwmom]

23. Why? I'd rather have the roads filled with people who have passed

drivers' tests. And if someone hits me, I want their name and address. If they don't have insurance, my insurance company will still be able to go after them. I WAS hit by someone (not an illegal immigrant) who had no insurance, and the insurance company dealt with her. Eventually I got my deductible back.

[napi21]

41. Truest me, you got lucky! I used to work for an insurance Co.

One of the biggies. Yes you can file for subrogation, but you don't even want to know how low the recovery rate is.

[pnwmom]

45. I do realize

I was lucky. First, that the woman admitted fault. Second, that she paid the insurance company back.

There ARE good people in the world.

[pinto]

25. Thank God I'm not running. I favor an open border.

:scared:

[Renew Deal]

26. lol

:yourock:

[Exultant Democracy]

47. Too bad America is far to racist to elect you.

[Romulox]

76. Out of curiosity: Which countries (outside failed states like Somalia) have open borders?

I eagerly await a list of these "non-racist" countries! :rofl:

[Exultant Democracy]

88. Check out post 84 by LanternWaste, sums up my opinion, I see the world different then you bud.

[LanternWaste]

84. Victor Hugo once wrote something to the effect of...

Victor Hugo once wrote something to the effect of, "Some people believe that imaginary red and blue lines on a map are more important than people themselves.."

I'm right there with you. :hi:

[Catherine Vincent]

30. I don't think this is a bad idea.

It will be a big difference in the way they drive. A lot of illegals drive like someone is after them all the time....wreckless. If they get a legit license, they'll be better drivers like the rest of us. No wait, some of us suck at driving.

[book_worm]

42. Agree 100%--an illegal hit a woman downtown where I live and she died

there was a great outcry about how she got a drivers license. She was deported--but too late for the victim.

[More Than A Feeling]

43. Under the theory that not having a license would have somehow stopped her from driving?

[napi21]

52. No, but it would have rewarded breaking our laws.

I am really having a hard time understanding what people don't understand about the word ILLEGAL means? To me it means someone broke a US law. There are penalties for doing that! Some laws are fair and rational, and some are not. Those that are not should be repealed or ammended, but that's not what we're talking about doing, is it? We're talking about ignoring the laws! Hmmm, I wonder just how many people in prison NOW would love people to ignore the law because all they did was peddel some grass?

[High Plains]

79. Have YOU ever violated a law? Speeding? Cheated on taxes?

Do you understand what the word ILLEGAL means?

[Renew Deal]

57. Would having a license prevent the accident?

[More Than A Feeling]

60. It didn't in this instance, but as a general rule, if licenses aren't

reducing accidents, we ought not to have them for anyone.

[Renew Deal]

61. More licenses, more accidents.

Plain, simple, and absurd.

[pnwmom]

73. Plain, simple, and a gross distortion of the statistics.

[Tactical Progressive]

48. Well, it IS the 7,843rd most important issue in America

ssssoooo... I agree.

I advocate all Democrats just tossing it. Here's a template:

'We don't need no goddam furriners on our roads. This is Murka. These are Murkin roads. Get offa our roads.'

Because the American media - filthy, disgraceful, race-baiting betrayers of their country and the gutter-profession of journalism that they are - will continue trying to rile up the raving xenophobic bigots of the American underbelly against progressives. As NBC did tonight in primetime for the debate. They aren't interested in the least in right and wrong.

Like much if not most of America. It's just a fact you have to deal with.

So, no more reasonable, rational, progressive approaches to this problem, please Dems? At least through election season.

[LibDemAlways]

51. It's a hot button issue the repukes will run with. I personally

prefer that every driver on the road be a licensed driver, but this isn't about road safety. It's about people's disdain for "illegals."

In California the people who bitch the loudest are the same ones who hire undocumented gardeners, nannies, maids, etc., and have no problem with the undocumented guys at the car wash, in restaurants, on construction sites and so on. Such hypocrisy.

[Quantess]

53. Not quite.

That's the precise reason why Republicans are divided on the issue. Several republicans are against cracking down on illegal immigration because their lobbyists don't want to give up the cheap labor.

Some of the people who "bitch the loudest" are legal immigrants, actually.

[Tactical Progressive]

62. I agree

Alot of 'mainstream' Americans, and I mean that with all of the contempt that it warrants, have a visceral disdain for anything that even hints at assisting illegal aliens.

Let the Republicans plead the cause of illegal aliens to curry the favor of, and donations from, their business donor base. Hell, use the Republican tactic - shameless hypocrisy - to attack them for it even. Turn that hot-button around.

I can see it now: Dems standing strong on America for Americans. Dress those Repubs down on the House floor. 'We believe in Murka for Murkins!'

At least, do it through election season.

[Renew Deal]

58. We've gotten off track that if you support a candidate that supports this, you support a loser

Plain and simple. NY and America widely oppose this.

[rodeodance]

66. Lou Dobbs has been sputtering about it for past week----half hour each day

[Romulox]

68. It's completely illogical to argue that extending licenses will compel illegal aliens to insure

Illegals are driving now, we are told, without licenses or insurance. Just because they *can* get both under Spitzer's plan does not indicate that they *will*.

What incentive do they have, given there are little/minimal penalties under the law for driving without either of these? :wtf:

[pnwmom]

74. Different states have laws with different penalties. n/t

[Romulox]

75. Per Eliot Spitzer, NY's penalties are insufficient to prevent illegals from driving.

It does not follow that extending extra privileges will somehow make the previously insufficient penalties sting more.

In fact, it's completely non-sensical. This is a new privilege. There are no new penalties. So people can continue driving without licenses or insurances, or with a license, but no insurance, and be no worse off than they are under the current system.

What is that saying about insanity? Isn't it doing the same thing and expecting a different result?

[mondo joe]

71. I dunno about unelectable, but it seems very poorly thought out to me.

I can't see what would compel most people who are living in the US illegally to risk identifying themselves through the DMV.

[Bandit]

78. Can your crystal ball tell me the winning lotto numbers

You don't know nearly as much as you think you do..

[Renew Deal]

82. Over 65% opposition in NY

Imagine what that number is like in less Democratic states such as say, Pennsylvia, Ohio, Florida, Iowa, etc.

I live in NY. People are passionate against it. It's a candidate killer. All the opposition has to say is that Candidate X supports giving licenses to illegals, and support will drain away.

http://www.thecherrycreeknews.com/content/view/1907/2

http://www.wstm.com/Global/story.asp?S=7214521

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

80. Have you got stats to back that up?

Because I was under the impression that most americans don't really give a shit about illegal immigration, or actually support illegal immigrants, despite what the race baiters say.

[Renew Deal]

81. 72% oppose in 1 poll. 65% in another.

I live in NY. People are passionate about it.

http://www.thecherrycreeknews.com/content/view/1907/2

http://www.wstm.com/Global/story.asp?S=7214521

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

83. That doesn't support what you said.

[Renew Deal]

85. "In a Siena College poll released today, 72% of voters said they were opposed to Spitzer's plan."

What are you missing?

http://www.wstm.com/Global/story.asp?S=7214521

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

86. The part where they wouldn't vote for a candidate who supported it.

Or the part where you said people were passionate about it.

What sort of nutjob would be passionate about it?

[Indy Lurker]

87. The problem isn't giving someone a license to drive

The problem is that a drivers license is used as a form of identification for things other than driving.

If we were talking about library cards, far fewer would care, as library cards are not used as a form of ID.

[Stinky The Clown]

89. Here's a Halloween Costume for You