Do you believe in UFO's ?

[RiverStone]

Poll question: Do you believe in UFO's ?

For this poll, lets assume a UFO is not from this planet or solar system and not of human origin (i.e. weather balloon or secret military experiment).

In essence, I'm asking if you believe advanced life exists outside our solar system that may visit us from time to time...



Of course, we would love to hear your true UFO stories!


QUESTION: Do you believe in UFO's?

[Rex]

1. Exist yes, visit from time to time, who knows.

Doubtful.

[...of J.Temperance]

2. No I don't, I don't do Conspiracy Theories

And UFO's are just another Conspiracy Theory.

[Mind_your_head]

23. The question is "Do you believe in Unidentified Flying Objects" (UFOs)?

Can you identify/explain EVERY object/thing you see in the sky? NOOOOO???? If you are unable to explain EVERY thing you see in the sky, then you believe/KNOW there are UFOs (Unidentifed flying objects - things you see, but just don't know what they are)....

The meme has been to label UFOs as from "Mars", alien, extra-terrestrial.....maybe they are and maybe they aren't (or maybe someone just "MADE IT ALL UP" for 'effect')....but YES, every HONEST person will concede that "UFOs" exist.

UFO = Unidentifide Flying Object

UFO = Things that I see in the sky, and I don't know what they are/how to explain it....they are UFOs "unidentified"

[...of J.Temperance]

28. I can't say that I've

Ever seen anything flying in the sky, except for planes, helicopters and birds....and insects.

On Edit: Dammit spelling error

[Mind_your_head]

33. Mebbe you just don't look 'up' (beyond yourself) enough?

:shrug:

Peace,
M_Y_H

[Random_Australian]

29. Uh, a little quote from the OP:

"For this poll, lets assume a UFO is not from this planet or solar system and not of human origin (i.e. weather balloon or secret military experiment)."

Ahem.

[truedelphi]

101. My husband saw this spectacular UFO and IF he had not

Later learned that it was some type of new missile being fired out of a military base hundreds of miles from where we live - he would have continued to be amazed by it.

I think the only difference between UFO seers and non-seers is that those who have viewed UFO's tend to be people who pay attention to what's in the sky when they are outside.

[Beerboy]

61. You don't have to feel left out,

you're still part of the conspiracy; you're one of the most important by far.

[Lorien]

117. So there was never a conspiracy? No one conspired to kill Julius Ceasar?

that's discounting a lot that's happened throughout human history.

[nashville_brook]

120. people never EVER conspire to do anything -- that's just a conspiracy theory.

[Melynn]

134. There was a conspiracy to kill Lincoln too

There are conspiracies.

[SyntaxError]

144. heh... gotta love the whole "I don't believe in conspiracies" line...

[nadinbrzezinski]

136. WOW, so you do not believe that this is a legal binding

term either.

You don't do them, therefore real criminal conspiracies cannot exist either

[RufusTFirefly]

143. Your life is remarkably black and white. Congratulations!

Many of us, however, exist in living color.

[SyntaxError]

145. I used to watch that show.

[defendandprotect]

161. the official 9/11 government report is a "conspiracy theory" . . . .

[ben_meyers]

3. Other. I've seen one, but I question my mental health. n/t

[mdmc]

194. have courage my friend!

Best of luck with your health. peace and low stress

[datadiva]

4. Yes, in the 70's

It looked amazingly like your pic. Only the lights were on the outside rim of the saucer. It sounded like about a million bees buzzing. Then it just shot up into the sky and was gone. My whole family of 6 saw it. Well, except for the baby of course. He was too little.

[Mojorabbit]

16. I saw one in the seventies

just like your description. My boyfriend and I pulled off the side of the road to watch it. It hovered for a good while then zip hauled ass straight up and off. Before that I always thought people who saw them were.... lets say, a bit off.

[Ghost in the Machine]

5. I'm a proud woo woo!

[Swamp Rat]

21. LOL!

Zandor's back! :D

[Ghost in the Machine]

32. The Revenge of Jowls

[Swamp Rat]

34. LOL!

:rofl:

[Beerboy]

67. Woo-effin-Woo!

That's a cool woo-woo graphic, I'm swipin' it.

[lvx35]

6. Something is obviously going on, but its really hard to say its from another planet.

I mean there are so many possibilities...The ones that seem most likely to me involve disinfo campaigns to convince other countries that we have and are testing super technology (thus the UFOs appear around government facilities like Area 51) and these may actually involve strage looking aircraft to lend validity to it. Or, we may actually have super technology, or, somebody else might, or if its really not us, it could be all sorts of things not extra-terrestrial...Inter dimension travellers, manifestations of freak telekinesis, humans visiting from the future who don't want to disrupt the flow of events too much, etc.

[RiverStone]

14. cool considerations!

And regarding the implausible possibility of humans visiting from the future who don't want to disrupt the flow of events too much...If you happen to meet someone out of this time, mind asking them if Al Gore ever became president?

Just a simple yes would suffice. :)

[The Count]

7. No proof of visitations - but it's plausible life exists outside Earth - does this qualify?

[piesRsquare]

8. Yeah, I believe in UFO's

[Beerboy]

68. Woo Woo smiley is hilarious!

:thumbsup:

[Duppers]

9. these 8 men do/did

October 30, 2007
Top Eight Presidential Encounters of the Third Kind

http://timesonline.typepad.com/comment/2007/10/presidential-en.html

[LakeSamish706]

10. Interesting Poll and one that should probably take the heat off of someone like...

Kucinich for his belief in UFO's... Many Americans, (World Occupants) believe in UFO's..... Just because we haven't seen one does not make us believe that they do not exist...

[MADem]

11. I don't know, but it's really a bit hubris laden for us to think, with those BILLIONS and BILLIONS

{to hark back to the late Carl Sagan) of stars out there, that there isn't a single damn one that might not support life and that there's no possibility that there might be others out there, who maybe, just maybe, are a tad ahead of us on the evolutionary scale?

[RiverStone]

18. I'd say there is a damn good possibility...

That somewhere out there (among the billions of stars), there is a civilization way ahead of us on the evolutionary scale.

In a place free from bigots, wars, walmarts, and reality TV. :woohoo:

[DCKit]

51. This is Amerika, no place is more advanced. Silly Human. nt

[SyntaxError]

146. I hate to break this to you, but...

Sam was from another planet, and walmart is an alien virus meant to wipe us out.

[krispos42]

55. Oh, they exist all right...

I just don't think they're HERE. Anally-probing drunk rural types and turning cows inside out and all that stuff.

It's possible that one of the other planets, perhaps our own moon, they left something behind to watch for emerging technology.

They may be on the way, responding to a radio signal launched from, say Pluto, a hundred years ago when the first radio transmissions started.

Read my post further down. Either we'd see them coming, or their advanced technology would completely prevent us from seeing them at all

[XOKCowboy]

58. I miss Carl Sagan saying "Billions upon Billions of years"

Cosmos was an incredible documentary series. Carl could really put the universe in perspective.

[MADem]

100. Hell, you're in a shrinking club--there are a lot of people who don't even remember the guy. And

that's their great loss. I thought he was a hot ticket, and made science accessible to the younger generation.

[slowry]

124. Read a post here the other day mocking him... depressing. n/t

[Occulus]

eh

I'm of the opinion that the craft people see in the sky are our own experimental craft. Yes, including the ones that zip and zap this way and that.

The fact is, we don't know where some of our scientific/military funds are being spent. Given that, the fact that people all over the world see strange things in the skies doesn't surprise me in the least.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. The problem with that theory is that sightings have remained remarkably

similar for the past 60 years - if it was our own technology wouldn't you expect some dramatic changes from 1948 to today - particularly when you consider the changes in aviation, electronics, metalurgy, etc, that we've seen since then?

[Occulus]

36. Heim Theory

Discussion here.

Here's the Wiki. The table is of particular interest. The Wiki page references a member of the discussion at the first link.

Who knows? Maybe someone figured out how to use it for propulsion (read some of the discussion for more on that topic)...

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. Other. I don't believe in UFOs because I've only seen one.

And it was just that. An unidentified object that moved in an unlikely way - quite possibly a weather balloon.

But I do believe that extraterrestrial life is not only possible, but probable, even inevitable, and that an advanced technology can overcome the perceived barriers to interstellar travel. The jury is still out on if we have been visited by any.

Therefore, I will not dismiss anyone else's claim to have seen a UFO; I will remain skeptical until I see proof for myself.

[Trajan]

13. Imprecise terms ...

You ask about UFO's .... But existent extraterrestrial civilizations may exist WITHOUT the necessary technology to engage in space travel.

Hell : We are essentially in a Stone Age when we speak of space travel .... We haven't yet left our own local satellite's orbit ...

So my answers would be:

YES: Other civilizations probably exist throughout the universe .... but

NO: It is highly unlikely that ANY of those civilizations possess the formidable technological competence that would be required to execute interstellar travel ...

So, even though other worlds are most likely inhabited, it is extremely unlikely those inhabitants can travel through space and visit us .... the problems of interstellar travel is just too hard to solve ....

PS: 9997

[skul_Donteecha]

15. Of course there is extraterrestrial life way out in space.

We would have to be monumental egotists to believe that our minor planet, tucked off in a remote corner of the Milky Way, is the only place where intelligent life can be found. We would also be kidding ourselves if we believes the recipe for life exists only on our small planet and no where else.
Have ETs ever visited earth? Who knows. Maybe they did at one time but the mere fact that they don't now, shows the advanced state of their intelligence. They know that to show up now, they would have to deal with neocons and a gaggle of other national leaders who are in it just for the power or the gold or some other reason considered trivial by the space guys.

Yeah, I believe in UFOs, aliens and intelligent planets far far away. I believe that God also believes. If he did nt, and was not creating new planets here there and everywhere, his life would be boring as all get out.

[Blue-Jay]

19. Let's make a deal, OK?

Explain to me how interstellar travel is possible (or even feasible) and I'll answer your question.

That said, it is probable that there is life of one sort or another in other parts of the galaxy. But it is highly improbable that they have figured out a way to travel at faster-than-light speed, only to come here under the cover of night, with the sole purpose of sticking things up the asses of drunken rednecks.

[RiverStone]

24. Regarding interstellar travel, this was the best I could find...

http://www.physorg.com/news8817.html

Otherwise, I'll think it over and get back to you in the a.m. :hi:

[Oeditpus Rex]

43. It's highly improbable if you limit yourself, as Earthlings are bound to,

to our understanding of physics. It's feasible that the technology of other societies makes our own seem like the Pleistocene.

[SyntaxError]

147. You're basing your answer on human knowledge today...

We all know that us humans often times have a very incomplete picture of how the universe works. Imagine asking someone in Acient Rome about the possibilities of humans going to the moon... They'd be like "ha! no way that would ever happen and the only way it would happen is if it's filmed on a movie studio in Hollywood"

[treestar]

193. But if there is life in another part of the universe

It could be at different stages than we are here - either much more primitive or much farther ahead. So it's possible, though I don't think we've ever actually seen it. But we do think about it a lot. Look at all the science fiction out there - books and movies. We're fascinated by the idea.

[uppityperson]

20. I believe advanced life exists outside our solar system, think visiting is a long chance

The universe is big enough that I believe life exists outside our little planet, but also believe the universe is such a big place that chances of being able to contact or be contacted are minuscule.

[gateley]

26. I think a lot of people who have seen a UFO didn't "believe" until they saw

one themselves. I believe there is SOMETHING happening due to the sheer volume of credible witnesses (pilots, military, etc.) but as to whether or not these are alien objects or ours, I don't know.

[uppityperson]

31. I've seen things I can't explain, and though a skeptic, am open to hard (solid) proof.

It just seems that the universe is so big, would be very coincidental to have a spacefaring being intersect with us. Could happen. I don't limit my speculations for "wtf was that" to aliens though. For a long time Europeans thought gorillas were made up, then they were found and proved to exist. I don't think "wtf was that" is gorillas though, but I don't know, could be stuff going on with the earth that we don't know of.

[gateley]

37. That's a great analogy about the gorillas. If we don't know that something

exists, that doesn't mean it doesn't.

[RaleighNCDUer]

40. And that would also apply to a theory of physics that does not

presume lightspeed to be an impassable barrier.

We simply don't know what we don't know. Perhaps, with the proper theory, FTL travel is no more difficult than flying heavier-than-air aircraft, which was also proved to be physically impossible in the 18th century.

[gateley]

41. I agree. Quantum physics is teaching us things we never imagined. I know it

doesn't supersede Newtonian physics, but it's evidence that stuff we would have thought impossible a few years ago is accepted now.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

121. What, exactly, have you learned from quantum physics?

Just how much quantum physics have you studied?

[Basileus Basileon]

164. Odds right now are:

"He learned he does not remotely understand quantum physics, and as such has decided that absolutely anything can happen."

[LeftyMom]

22. Do I think there's extra-terrestrial life someplace? Yeah. Do I think said life drops by Earth? Nah.

Do I think that, should I be wrong about the second, they'd have any interest in cow guts, what's going on in the reproductive tracts of backwater hicks or drawing spirograph patterns in whet fields? Not so much. ;)

[nosmokes]

25. Don't probe me Bro

[SyntaxError]

148. lol....

I'm surprised no one else has showed their appreciation for your comment...

[The Traveler]

27. I **suspect** there may be

There is some evidence to support suspicion, but certainly not enough to support conclusion. At the moment, I have to be content with a question mark. Maybe. Maybe not. Perhaps more will be revealed.

Elsewhere in this thread, the problem of interstellar travel is deemed insurmountable. Well, with our current understanding of physics, that is true. But our understanding of physics is evolving rapidly ... and one thing that seems clear is that Einstein doesn't quite have things right ... so again we have to content ourselves with a question mark on that score.

Of this we can be certain ... human industrial activity has wrecked the biosphere upon which human life depends. It is possible, and perhaps even likely, that high energy technology civilizations are not viable, that sudden climate change and other effects knock these civilizations down before they can spread off their home worlds.

[skyblue]

176. Unless they were wise enough to use alternative energy which has been around for decades here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_satellite

I'd be more concerned with the biological aspects: Their not being immune to our diseases as being the largest deterrent to alien invasion or visitation.

[Kurovski]

30. I'm not sure, but...

I'm a sucker for UFO humor.

[Melynn]

137. I'm not sure but.....

I'm a sucker for UFO discussions....like this thread.

[Rosco T.]

35. The Absolute Best Answer to This Question

"I'll tell you one thing about the universe, though.
The universe is a pretty big place.
It's bigger than anything anyone has ever dreamed of before.

So if it's just us... seems like an awful waste of space. Right?"

- Dr Ellie Arroway (and Carl Sagen) "Contact"

[Basileus Basileon]

44. Question isn't, "are they out there somewhere?"

Question is, "have they poked around here?"

[ProdigalJunkMail]

78. god, what a great book

i LOVED that one...and then the movie went and pissed me off...

sP

[RiverStone]

85. Yes, great book...which left us with the message:

“For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.” :grouphug:

[rasputin1952]

38. Yes, and I've seen a few. Most I would say were satellites or

something flying high in the sky on dark nights in AZ. But there have been things I have seen that I can't explain from what most would call a rational point of view.

On Long Island one night 1n 1968, 5 friends and I saw a light rise from behind a cornfield, and come toward us. We ran, there was no noise, and I can tell you that the "group fright" was real, not panic, but there was fear. We got to in front of my house on the Bay, and it was still slowly following us. It hovered for approximately 15-20 seconds, moved over the bay, then shot straight up...FAST. There was no definitive shape I could make out, and after we calmed down, we talked about it, no one saw a definitive shape, but it was a bright, halogen like light, maybe 50 feet in diameter and about 125-150 feet in the air. Whatever it was, it knew we were there, and it followed us, not in a direct line either, we had to take several curves and a 90 degree turn on the road, and it matched our movements precisely. Just thinking about it now makes me just a tad nervous.

Another was when my son and I were out after Midnight one Summer night in AZ, a relatively large light, about the size of a dime at arms length was traveling North across the sky. It was moving at a good clip, but nothing faster than a quick jet. It got smaller, and then aligned with a star and just vanished. I had the impression it just shot up when it aligned w/the star, (or perhaps turned off it's lights if it was some kind of plane).

[BootinUp]

39. They may exist but

there is no credible evidence they have ever been here.

[JVS]

42. I believe that there will always be failures to identify flying objects

So technically, I believe in Unidentified Flying Objects. But I don't think they're spaceships.

[Roon]

45. Yes, I believe

and they are watching us. You know how we watch animals without them knowing? They are watching us without us knowing. I also believe they can feel it when a human eye spots them and that is why they will take off.

[Basileus Basileon]

46. Woo.

No. Space is very, very large, and very, very empty. Odds are enormously against them happening to drop by here.

[Beerboy]

63. Woo Yoo...

You been all through Space, spaceboy/girl?
Didn't think so.
Oh yeah, woo woo.

[Basileus Basileon]

92. Nope. That would be impossible.

Space is very, very large and very, very empty, and the universe imposes a speed limit--and even if one were to manage to get around that little issue, there's the issue of it being enormously large. What we can see in the night sky is only a tiny fraction of our galaxy. There are billions and billions of galaxies, and distances that are frankly impossible to understand between them. Space is very large, and very empty. Hence my answer.

[Norrin Radd]

47. It's possible, in my estimation.

If it is possible for life to go from crawling out of the primordial sludge, to walking on the moon, sending probes deep into space, and, in the future, ??? Then I believe it could be possible.

[misanthrope]

48. Do other people see things in the sky they can't identify? Sure, however...

...that's entirely different than asking what we believe UFOs actually are.

[Beerboy]

49. Yes, and I have seen one.

There's no way it couldn't have been.
I was passenger in the car, only 2 people. To this day I'll never forget that it was some kind of telepathic signal that first drew my eye to the fleeting seemingly insignificant light.
They didn't beam me up or try to rape me, but they let me know that they could, later, in Fridley. They laughed when I thought of green tits; they knew I was typical, and moved on.
100% true.

[Warren DeMontague]

50. I think it's extremely unlikely that intelligent, advanced life DOESN'T exist somewhere else.

Whether they visit us in spaceships is another question.

I believe people -alone and in groups- have seen stuff in the sky that hasn't always been adequately explained- hence, I believe that some flying objects qualify ans "unidentified". I haven't seen any convincing proof to say that aliens are visiting us in spaceships. Mark me down as agnostic and skeptical until convinced otherwise.

[Uben]

52. Impossible!

Haven't any of you been watching the news lately? Aliens are ILLEGAL!

[krispos42]

53. No

I don't believe in them.

Intersteller travel by any means we can imagine would take enormous amounts of energy and be restricted to sub-lightspeed velocities. If they were coming here from another solar system, we would see their exhaust plume months or years before they arrived.

If they have some science-fiction-concept drive, like gravity polarizers or some sort of inertialess drive that does not have obvious exhaust, then we might not see them coming. However, even our current Stealth technology make planes virtually invisible to radar and infrared detection. Technology one hundred, two hundred, or more years ahead of ours would be able to completely conceal themselves. We would not see them unless they wanted us to see them.

I can't see any reasonable middle ground. The sneak into Earth orbit from trillions of miles away, but can't avoid a World War Two radar? The arrive undetected, then cruise around with running lights on?

[Henny Penny]

64. Why not think inter-dimensionally?

If there are eleven dimensions and infinite possibilities there is no need to come from far away when you are really here all the time.

[krispos42]

76. That's fine

But if they can do THAT, warp/hyperdrive/Alderson Drive etc., then they can keep us from seeing them at all.

It seems to... clumsy, I guess is the word I'm looking for. They can cross intersteller space but fly around with navigation lights blinking while refusing to make any contact with us?

[RaleighNCDUer]

86. Every night there are millions of vehicles on the road.

And any given night you are likely to see one who forgot to turn on his headlights.

How do you know that there are not thousands out there, but occassionally one forgets to turn off his lights?

[krispos42]

90. I don't

Except that such attention without contact...

that would imply that the galaxy we are in is a VERY busy place, crowded with civilizations and beings with fast and easy transport that defies known physics. And that don't transmit in the radio band.

That would also imply the spacecraft coming here are not military or scientific, but ordinary galactic citizens.

And why would so many be here? Vacation?

If we were being studied, it seems to me that since vast volumes of our climate, geography, geology, biology, politics, religion, history, economy, and other areas of knowledge available on-line and being broadcast with radio waves, such activities could be done secretly from a distance. A secret radio telescope on the moon recording and decoding into all of our communications, for example.

[Shallah Kali]

139. Maybe they are the galatic version of jerks how capture and torture small creatures

for their enjoyment. Can't get away with it at home but head out into the boonies and have at it.

there have been reports of lights in the sky doing odd things for centuries long before radio much less our current technology do if they wanted to learn about humans they would need to do more than lurk on the other side of the moon.

then think of nature programs where camera crews go out and watch critters like lions and merkats for months at a time. they lurk around and eventually the animals get used to them and act normal. Maybe back on Ork there is a earthling reality show where the aliens kick back and munch on whatever is their version of junk food :p

but then there is the thought if this is true we are trying to comprehend truly alien creatures. Why would they think like us, act like us, have priorities like us? Maybe they don't care if they are seen. Maybe part of their thing is to see how humanity reacts to them.

btw if they are defying known physics why should we expect them to transmit in basic radio when they have found things beyond anything scientists can imagine for transport?

In the end I believe something is going on beyond what humanity currently understands. I have seen several odd things despite not living near a swamp or military base. Additionally one of the most bland couples I knew who were totally uninterested in - in fact poo pooed - anything like this once confessed to be followed for over an hour at night in a very rural forest area by a glowing cigar shaped craft just a few car lengths behind them. They were not on medication, didn't do drugs, the husband drank the occasional beer and that was it.

[skyblue]

177. Invisible spacecraft some kind of cloaking device. But why not f with us and appear

as any shape at all - like a shapeshifter- and turn itself into a regular looking airplane just for shits and giggles.

[LeftishBrit]

54. No.

I do believe that advanced life probably exists somewhere outside our solar system (though it's hard to prove - in, fact when people like Bush get elected, it becomes a little hard to prove that advanced life exists *inside* our solar system). But I don't think they visit us in UFOs.

[MrSlayer]

56. Only a fool would think that in an infinite universe only this planet has life.

And it is certainly possible that we may be visited from time to time. I have never seen a UFO but the idea of advanced life and technology out there is far more plausible than many things the majority of humans hold as truth.

[XOKCowboy]

57. Like Kathleen Madigan said I think we're the Alabama of the universe...

They stop in here and go "OH Shit! I told ya we shoulda turned LEFT at Alpha Centauri". :)

[eridani]

60. Blunder on, master race

Kick some ass in hyperspace
As our space opera keeps rolling along
Shoot that Smeerp, what a grouch!
Drag that broad behind a couch
As our space opera goes rolling along

Fasten seatbelts please
Here we go at 50 gees
Scrape yourself up from off the floor
If this violence offends
Burn a cockroach with your lens
As our space opera goes rolling along

Not a restroom in sight
(Second cluster on your right!)
Our space opera goes rolling along
Solitaire getting dull?
Something's eating through the hull!
As our space opera goes rolling along.

Batten down your stuff
Negaspace is getting rough
Should have camped out on Deneb Three
Scrambled eggs or scrambled guts
Just remember which is what
As our space opera goes rolling along.

Power up! Screens aglow!
Battle stations here we go!
As our space opera goes rolling along.
Never lose your aplomb
Try an antimatter bomb!
As our space opera goes rolling along.

For it's crack! crack! crack!
All our screens are turning black
Shoot! What the heck do we do now?
Try another from our stacks
Half-price on all paperbacks
As our space opera goes rolling along.

[eridani]

59. Yes, as in "unidentified" means that we don't know what they actually are

Aliens? Possible, but not very likely.

[earth mom]

62. I voted maybe...but what I find amazing about this poll is that people scoff at CT but not UFOs.

My money is on the * Co Conspiracy Theories being true. LIHOP/MIHOP etc.

:tinfoilhat:

[Henny Penny]

66. People believing in ufos are not a threat...

but when they start taking mihop/lihop seriously the debunkers have to spring into action...

[Ghost in the Machine]

69. I haven't seen a "debunker" yet that I couldn't laugh my ass off at. Seriously.

Just go to the 9-11 forum and read some of them. They're fucking hilarious. They demand links, credentials, all kinds of shit from people, yet they rarely, if ever, provide the same themselves. They dance around questions, engage in doublespeak, and talk more bullshit than a crackhead in front of a 7-11 begging you for a dollar for "gas", and still never give a straight answer or even an intelligent answer. They're a laugh a minute. I'm almost in awe of the way they can spin, deflect, divert & spin again without falling out of their chairs.

Debunkers. :rofl:

[Anarcho-Socialist]

131. That's nonsense, and a thorough misrepresentation

Controlled demolition, "mini-nukes", "space beam weapons", "no planes", "remote control planes". Those are some things to laugh at. The theories that are proposed in the Dungeon by MIHOPers are very embarrassing for this website, not to mention crazy. It's also embarrassing that time and time again Troofers get caught linking to inappropriate sources from hate groups. It is also the case that the current Troofer expert du jour on structural engineering is a theologian.

[Henny Penny]

152. lol..

come on ... you are asking for it...

:+

anyone using the term "troofer" can't possibly expect to be taken seriously.... next thing you know they'll be invoking the name of brother Occam....

[karlrschneider]

190. Hey, in any large community there will be a certain number of insane fuckwits.

DU is no exception.

[RiverStone]

75. And maybe both are true...

Many CT's have been tossed around which suggest the gov has awareness (and has had) for a long time of UFO's or other stuff they deemed not in the interest of the public to know about. Probably more about control and power then public interest.

The truth is out there!

[earth mom]

127. That's why I voted "maybe". Truth is stranger than fiction as they say. nt

[piesRsquare]

65. UFO's...

[Beerboy]

70. That's cute! n/t

[bdamomma]

96. yup, that sums it up quite well.

[GreenPartyVoter]

102. Exactly

[gateley]

108. On Deep Space Nine, Quark and his nephews were traveling back in time

(our time) in their little spaceship.

Alarms began clanging and they all were kind of panicky. One nephew says "it's the radiation warning signal going off" and Quark said

"Don't be ridiculous! There must be something wrong with the alarm - no intelligent species would allow that much radiation in their atmosphere!"

[defendandprotect]

162. "Idiots," true . . . and we may have done damage beyond our own planet ---

[Syntheto]

71. Statistically, yes...

...there should be various species of other people throughout the universe, but the distances involved are too enormous to transverse during the lifetime of a single individual.

Okay, yes, I know that means strictly from a Human perspective, with our physiology and psychology, but I would argue the following points:

A. It's a given that the physical laws of gravity and light are the same throughout the universe; I can let go of a baseball from a height of 2 meters while exploring a planet, call it Terranova, two million light years away, and the ball will fall to the ground, just as it would here. Light travels at about 300000 km/s there, too, and its properties would be consistent with Newtonian optics. A prism would work the same way, for example.

B. If you agree thus far, I would make the argument that statistical probability would be the same on Terranova, just as it would be here. A roll of a pair of dice on the floor of our tent on Terranova would still have the same chance of coming up seven 6 times out of 36. Okay, building on that, it follows that evolutionary processes would work the same way, given a multispecies environment, and the usual food-chain based competition for resources.

C. The most successful line to emerge would, like us, have to be able to communicate with each other not only within proximity to each other, but over long distances by manipulating symbolic media. They would have to develop tool use. They would have to be able to conceptualize future events and calculate probabilities in order to plan.

D. Social organization and technology are subject to evolutionary processes, also. Some people here know that I'm a big Harry Turtledove fan, and in the Worldwar series, he introduced The Race, reptilian aliens who make earthfall right during the middle of WWII. I don't want to go into it here, but what I liked is that Turtledove did introduce the idea of his aliens having an evolutionary, as well as a societal and technological backstory.

E. The point is: all life starts with primitive characteristics on a planet, lives with gravity, under some sort of atmospheric pressure, needs to take in sustenance and eliminate wastes. I have yet to hear anyone argue that there is a form of life that came into being, totally sentient and technologically advanced, with the ability to travel between worlds in the most hostile of all environments: namely, the radiation-wracked vacuum of space, and if that wasn't enough, it did it at a speed faster than light! I'm sorry, but that would sound a little too suspiciously like that one fellow (Time Life presents: Songs of Worship, Volume Eighteen - "God of wonder, beyond the Galaaaaxxxxxyyyyy) for my taste.

F. Unless they grow them from a crystal, a craft that was capable of interstellar travel would be one complex piece of a machinery. That calls for sophisticated manufacturing technology, of which I'm sure a form of metallurgy is used. Metals have to be mined, whether it's from the ground, an asteroid or filtered through seawater. Mining, technology, etc, calls for organization. Any form of organization is a defacto government. Therefore, it follows that the Terranovans, whether they were reptilian, cuttlefishes, what have you, would be beholden to some form of central government.

You read about the Grays coming to our planet, and occasionally abducting people. What would the evolutionary past be for something like that? Are there female Grays? Are there Male Grays? Are there Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Grays? Are there minority Grays, say a Silver or Gold community that was once kept in bondage by the Grays, and are they given equal opportunities for advancement in a Gray-dominated society? Are there young Grays, are there old Grays? Do they have different markings on their uniforms and craft that indicates that some come from one faction or another, are they military in nature? Do they have weapons? Do they speak different languages? Would two groups of Grays fight it out if they came across each other? Is their form of government socialist in nature or democratic? Do they have a central Queen/Mother that's two hundred times the size of a typical Gray? Are they capable of emotions, such as Fear, Rage and, most importantly, do they have a sense of Humor? (Hey, Xlon'chiK, how many Humans does it take to screw in a light bulb? Ha! One to screw it in, and two-hundred and fifty to stand outside with signs protesting that it wasn't friendly enough for the environment!)

Even if you argue that the Grays mean us no harm, and that they're only here for research (which kind of attributes an academic mindset to them), surely they have the means to protect themselves from all the Bubbas and Men In Black out there who want to dissect them? Whether is was an inherent (and developed via evolutionary processes) telepathic psi-beam or a flat out Mark Three 27 Kilowatt Thingamajigger set to Roast, these folks need to be able to defend themselves in a hostile environment, if such people did exist.

Okay, my tongue is starting to ache from holding it in my cheek for so long, but, frankly, I just roll my eyes when this stuff comes up.


Here's the big, actual adult question: Given our government's black budget for military expenditures, what makes more sense, a peaceful, homogeneous race of people transversing light years of interstellar space to come here to tag humans with a vibrating butt plug, or a fully autonomous robotic aircraft that can do aerial maneuvers at such high speed that 'no human could withstand the g-forces' and costs, say 5 billion dollars a piece, and we've got two of them?

[maine_raptor]

72. Other

Maybe it should have been "No", but here goes.

It boils down to one question:

"Why?"

Why would they bother to visit our little piece of solar driftwood? What makes us so special?

If they can zip thru the light years and with all so many uninhabited planets available for use, colonization, etc., why would they show up in our dooryard?

Nope, but if they are out there, then I gotta go with the answer I once heard Isaac Asimov give after a lecture:

"I don't know if they exist, but I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere out beyond Pluto there is a sign that reads; "No Trespassing. Game Preserve. Sub-intelligent species developing."

[Perry Logan]

73. The yesses have it. It's hard to debunk something that thousands of people keep seeing.

What a hassle. You debunk UFOs and prove that they absolutely don't exist. Then a bunch of people go out and see them--and you have to prove they don't exist ALL OVER AGAIN!

[BoneDaddy]

74. How can anyone say this with certainty is

amazing. I am not a UFO fanatic , but I find it hard to believe that sentient life does not exist elsewhere in our vast universe or even taking it to the level that they may have developed a more advanced form of space travel. To say with certainty that this cannot happen shows the level of ignorance among the "skeptical" community.

[slowry]

84. The OP was asking if posters believe intelligent alien life is actually visiting our planet, not

whether it is possible or not.

[BoneDaddy]

94. Does George Bush

count as alien life? hehe. Gotcha, I misread that.

[slowry]

Well, he's inhuman, but not intelligent... d'oh :( n/t

[deutsey]

77. Yes, I believe life exists beyond human life on earth...if they do travel to our planet

they must be intelligent enough to realize that they should remain a safe distance away from most of us lower life forms.

[Melynn]

140. Who would want to interact with a violent species like humans

With all the human on human violence, I would imagine that space aliens would want no interaction with humans at all.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

79. Do you believe in Santa Claus?

Not the guy in the fake beard that visits with kids at the mall, but the magical elf who lives in a candy cane house at the north pole?

[Katherine Brengle]

80. The arrogance to believe that in all the universe, which is comprised

of billions of galaxies, there is only this one lonely planet with intelligent life, is not something that I possess.

The odds that there is no other intelligent life out there are, I believe, slim to none.

[Minstrel Boy]

81. UFOs exist, but

I think it's wrong to presume an ET hypothesis. I think they may be stranger than that, and also more familiar.

Read serious UFOlogical works, like those of Jacques Vallée (Passport to Magonia, Messengers of Deception, Dimensions, etc.) and Richard Dolan's UFOs and the National Security State. Something's going on. What it may be....


Vallée proposes that there is a genuine UFO phenomenon, partly associated with a form of non-human consciousness that manipulates space and time. The phenomenon has been active throughout human history, and seems to masquerade in various forms to different cultures. In his opinion, the intelligence behind the phenomenon attempts social manipulation by using deception on the humans with whom they interact.

Vallée also proposes that a secondary aspect of the UFO phenomenon involves human manipulation by humans. Witnesses of UFO phenomena undergo a manipulative and staged spectacle, meant to alter their belief system, and eventually, influence human society by suggesting alien intervention from outer space. The ultimate motivation for this deception is probably a projected major change of human society, the breaking down of old belief systems and the implementation of new ones. Vallée cannot say who or what is behind this scheme, only that the evidence, if carefully analysed, suggests an underlying plan for the deception of mankind by means of psychotronic technology. It is highly unlikely that governments actually conceal alien evidence, as the popular myth suggests. Rather, it is much more likely that that is exactly what the manipulators want us to believe. Vallée feels the entire subject of UFO's is mystified by charlatans and science fiction. He advocates a stronger and more serious involvement of science in the UFO research and debate. Only this can reveal the true nature of the UFO phenomenon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Vallee#Vallee.27s_interpretation_of_the_UFO_evidence

[Feron]

82. Why not?!

It's arrogance to believe that Earth is the only planet with intelligent life.

[slowry]

83. OK, now that the yeas have it, why are you sitting on your duffs patting yourselves on the backs?

Go out and find out who they are. Someone, anyone on Earth, buy a serious camera, with serious non-digital zoom, with serious quality, take some photography courses, and get us a honest-to-gawd picture of an alien spacecraft. Video would be nice too. I mean high-quality, professional stuff.

At the same time, grab some other instruments (and here my ignorance of such things precludes specifics) to capture data on its heat/radiation properties, size, composition, ... and so on.

Surely you can't be satisfied knowing life from who-knows-where, in our almost incomprehensibly massive universe, is visiting us, and not knowing a damn thing about them, or if it's possible to communicate with them, or whatever.

I am not even being sarcastic. If you truly believe this is going on, do something, instead of just bashing people who are amazed that you just "believe" this stuff, and are satisfied with just that...

[defendandprotect]

185. Is there anyone here actually trying to get to see something????

I've generally tried to avoid getting abducted ---

but I'd love to see a UFO --- only in a crowd of thousands -- not alone!!!

Evidently, Arizona and New Mexico are great places for sightings ---

In NJ, I've heard the Pine Barrens area has provided some experiences ---

And, over the Hudson River -- near Rockland County, supposedly a lot of activity ---

Anyone from those areas here?????

[magellan]

87. Yes, my husband and I saw a couple of UFOs in the mid-90s

We're both grounded in science and technology and to this day we have no explanation for what we saw: two lights, no brighter than the stars around them, zipping about making handbrake turns at incredible speed for a few minutes in utter silence, then vanishing.

[book_worm]

88. Of course! UFO stands for Unidentified flying object--and there are many of those

and many can be explained as well.

[bigwillq]

89. I believe in the possibility that they exist

I don't believe 100 percent that they do exist nor do I believe 100 percent that they don't exist.

It's kind of how my belief is with religion (god).

[tom_paine]

91. Why in God's name would advanced extra-solar species visit US?

Perhaps like a trip to the zoo? "Keep away from the dumb intelligent-primate-animals, Junior, they'll dissect you and make products out of your liver-type-organ."

A cautionary tale: "See, never shit in your bedroom, Junior. Look at these filthy dumb intelligent-prinate-animals and their farting combustible toys. Luckily, species like this almost never last long and they are incapable of achieving extrasolar travel because they alwys self-destruct befor they can reach that capacity."

Or perhaps this: "Remember in Biology 101, how we learned that all natural systems follow cycles of boom and bust, overshoot and die-off? Here is an example of a technically advanced species with the wisdom smaller than our youngest offspring. They cannot even recognize that they are subject to the same forces as every other species, intelligent or otherwise, in the universe, unless they use their intelligence and foresight, as our ancestors did, to use the Laws of Physics and the Natural World to guide our evolution so that we could see beyond out animal bodies."

[RufusTFirefly]

116. Exactly!

The idea that other intelligent life forms even care about us demonstrates a bombastic sense of self-importance and anthrocentrism. It's a planetary version of super-patriotism. We're Number 1. Everyone in the universe will be anxious to visit us.

Besides, even if they did choose to visit us (perhaps out of morbid curiosity), why would their crafts look so terrestrial?

The notion that the vehicles of extra-terrestrial visitors would be even vaguely recognizable as vehicles (and that they would even require vehicles!) and that we would even be able to see them if they did come to visit demonstrates a deeply limited sense of imagination. Silly Earthlings.

[mondo joe]

130. And to linger, probing human rectums occassionaly?

Carl Sagan said:

"So, if you postulate the existence of highly technical civilizations, thousands, much less millions of years in our future, unless the hypothesis strongly contradicts known laws of physics, I think you have to say it's possible. So, travel at very high speeds between the stars, that's by no means out of the question. Walking through walls is a little tough for me. I don't see how it could be done. And the basic reading program idea of the alien abduction, the paradigm, they seem strangely backward in biology for all their advances in physics, if you take it seriously. Why are they doing breeding one on one at such a slow pace? Why not steal a few humans, sequence our DNA, look at variations and make whatever genetic engineering changes they want. We almost have the ability to do that. It seems naive in terms of molecular biology."

[tom_paine]

135. Carl Sagan's death was a terrible loss for a humanity that cannot afford such losses.

In a way, it is good that he isn't alive to see this. He was a big fan of freedom and democracy, and he would be as devastated as any DUer to have seen it dismantled and destroyed so swiftly by the same bunch of High Social Dominators (see my first siglink for further explanation of this psychological phenomenon) who have ALWAYS tyrannized what they have perceived to be their inferiors.

But that is an excellent point by Mr. Sagan and a constant hole in UFO abduction stories...the absolute lack of any new data or any new ideas.

[defendandprotect]

187. Well, the tale that has been told is that they did something to their own planet, their own DNA???

Evidently, we're a possibility for interbreeding -- hey, you can't always be fussy --
we're dumb, but some of them are ugly!!! ---

Seems like they did some damage fooling around with atoms --

Breeding program . . .!!!!

[NoGOPZone]

93. Too broad a question

Do I believe people have seen things in the sky that haven't been completely explained? Yes. Do I believe in life elsewhere in the universe? Yes. Do I believe then, that UFO's are intelligently operated vehicles from other civilizations? A possibility, but very unlikely. Not being able to identify a flying object does not necessarily mean we are being visited from elsewhere.

[Beelzebud]

95. I believe in Unidentified Flying Objects.

Although I don't think aliens are wasting time visiting trailer parks.

Ask yourselves this. Why is it that most major UFO sightings happen around military bases, and airports?

Our military has things that they won't be showing us for another 30 years. They flew the stealth for 20 without us knowing about it. Nothing funnier than reading reports from former stealth fighters about how they would be out on test flights, in Nevada, and would read the paper the next day to look for the UFO reports describing triangular craft.

That being said, I'm sure there is intelligent life out in the universe somewhere, but the universe is bigger than most people's imagination, and the chances are slim to none of somoene actually making a multi-million lightyear trip just to slaughter cows in a field, or rape someone in their sleep.

[LibertyLover]

97. One Saturday evening in mid-April, 1968

I was 14 and a freshman in high school. My best friend, Eileen, had come over that afternoon and we had gotten permission from my parents and hers for her to sleep over. Since she didn't have any clothes, we decided after dinner to walk to her house, stopping in at church on the way to go to confession and having my mom pick us up at her place. We lived in a small town in New Jersey at the time and so the plan was fine with the parents. But my mom suggested that I take my German Shepherd dog, Hans, with us, more so that he got some exercise than anything else. We stopped in at church and our favorite priest was hearing confessions. I invited him outside to meet Hans because Fr. Flynn loved dogs. We chatted a few minutes and then Eileen and I continued our walk to her house. We could have taken two basic routes, the longer one through town and a shorter one along the railroad tracks (pretty much unused at that point). I opted for the longer route because it had sidewalks and with the dog, I thought it would be easier. Eileen agreed, since "longer" in this case meant maybe 2 blocks. We walked through town and then cut over to walk across the playground behind Merritt Memorial, one of the two elementary schools in town in order to cut a few steps off of our walk. As we were crossing the playground Hans started to pull on his leash and to walk faster. Up to this point he had been content to amble at my side, occasionally stopping to sniff, but now he wanted to move, and to move in a direction almost 90 degrees to the way we needed to go. Since he was pulling to my right, I looked to my left to see if something was there that was bothering him. That's when both Eileen and I saw something that we couldn't identify. Hovering about 300 feet from where we were standing on the playground, right over the baseball diamond at the end of the field, and about 100 feet in the air was a barbell shaped object. It looked like it was made of a lattice-work of lights - ie. its shape was defined by rows of lights with space between them. I may have been 14 and female, but I had flown to Europe and Mexico several times by that point in my life, had been in a helicopter and also was interested in planes, especially fighters from World War 2. I knew what a plane could do and what it couldn't and since this thing, which I could tell was reasonably large (about one and a half times the size of a full moon) wasn't making any sound, it was definitely not anything within my ken. We walked quickly to the street bordering the playground and in order to get to the street that led over to the next street, the one Eileen's house was on, we had to walk a bit towards the thing. It stayed put, just hovering. We turned to the right to get to the connecting street and away from the field. Something made me stop and turn around to look back at the object. The lights were a bit brighter and it had moved from over the baseball diamond closer to the street we were on. At that point Hans made a mewling sound, something I had never heard from him before and I turned to look at him. My big, brave GS dog was clawing frantically at the dirt at the side of the street trying to dig a hole. Up to that point we hadn't been particularly frightened, but Hans' behavior really scared us. We ran to Eileen's house as fast as we could. Of course, when we told her parents they laughed at us. We never discussed it - anytime I would bring it up, Eileen clammed up.

The interesting part is that a few years later, the summer between my senior year in HS and freshman year in college, I was at a friend's house for a bridge and pool party. Her parents, both pharmacists, were really nice people and enjoyed talking with Sue's friends. Interestingly, their house is on a street that dead-ends into the playground for the other elementary school in town (and the one I went to). Somebody brought up the subject of UFOs and Sue's parents looked at each other and started to tell about this time 3 years years before, a Saturday evening in mid April about 9 pm when they saw something. They had been coming back from shopping and as they were driving down their street, they saw something with lights on it moving from left to right (coming from the place I had seen the object towards the other elementary school's playground - maybe 2/5th of a mile) heading towards the Edward H. Bryan School's playground. Sue's dad thought it might be a small plane with a pilot in medical distress, so he put the car in the driveway, jumped out, told his wife to call the police (no 911 at that time) and ran towards the field to see if he could help since he had first aid training. As he put it, he was running towards this thing in the air, when he realized it wasn't making any noise, had lights in strips on it unlike any other airplane lights he had ever seen and it wasn't airplane-shaped. At that point I asked him if it had been dumbbell or bar-bell shaped. He and his wife simply stared at me, as did everyone else in the room. Then he asked me how I had known. I then told my story. Was it a UFO? Yes, because several people saw it and could not identify what type of object was flying (or hovering in my case). Was it a space ship from another world/galaxy/dimension/time/insert-your- favorite-theory-here? I believe it was, but obviously I can't prove it. What I will say is that it was strange.

[DemGa]

98. Great story, thanks!......nt

[gateley]

110. Great story. I was on the edge of my seat. I would have freaked!! nt

[skyblue]

178. Great Story!! nt

[lovuian]

99. Here is my videos on some

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tvV4OiTvB0U Kecksburg UFO

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jangQC7w9rY Peruvian UFO

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VAZ9UxNWYIw UFO Ohare incident

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NufKW9Njy88 By far the OHARE incident is one of the most intriquing this video has over 26,000 views

http://youtube.com/watch?v=67LjmgbWo3k my own UFO which I have know idea what it was but I documented it

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DOm9KVdumbQ Stratford Avon UFO

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aY7pXqJXtDY Guernsey UFO

http://youtube.com/watch?v=us0WHJe8vss Cleveland UFO over a Peace Protest and it was in Dennis Kucinich's district

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6H6rhCBpigY Phoenix lights seen by ex governor of Arizona

just a few

I haven't found the crowd on DU very receptive for UFO info or videos
so I don't really post them

But I think DU is awakening that perhaps the News Media's and Government suppression of UFO news has not fooled the public mainly because UFO sightings have increased substantially all over the world

[gateley]

115. I'm familiar with most of the reports because I've been listening to Coast to Coast

since 1991! It's the 'giggle factor' - the government and press intimating that those who have sightings are loco.

There are just too many credible, trained observers who witness these things to discount them as a bunch of loosely-wrapped weirdos.

[defendandprotect]

165. Thanks -- I didn't know the Phoenix ship came back . . ..

QUOTE: I haven't found the crowd on DU very receptive for UFO info or videos
so I don't really post them

But I think DU is awakening that perhaps the News Media's and Government suppression of UFO news has not fooled the public mainly because UFO sightings have increased substantially all over the world
UNQUOTE

It looks like you got a pretty good reception ---
It's been a taboo subject for decades and the "tin foil hat/conspiracy" approach has been effective; though I think it's time is pretty much over now.

SIGHTINGS used to be a great program --- then dissipated into "ghosts" . . .
and then gone.

[progressoid]

103. Unidentified Flying Objects

Lots of things fly that aren't identified. Can we assume you mean Extraterrestrial UFO's?

[FloridaJudy]

104. Yes, I've seen a UFO

And that's exactly what it was: unidentified. Weird fuzzy ball of light that raced past my car on a foggy night. Could have been anything: a mirage, ball lightning, experimental aircraft, unusual headlight reflection.

So I do believe in UFOs. I just don't think they're alien space craft. Any being capable of FTL travel would have better things to do than play practical jokes on earthlings.

[Milo_Bloom]

105. Saw one in the 80's at 13.

In the 1980's Coming back from an event, a group of us in a car.

I spotted a large object "floating" in the air (about 100 feet across). It was a little bit wobbly and I could mainly see 4 lights, one in each corner. I pointed it out and asked my Mom what it was, she said, "I'm sure it is just a plane" (She wasn't sure but she had a car filled with kids and didn't want to startle us). We watched it as we dropped off the people, as it just seemed to be hovering where it was... after a while we lost sight of it.

After we got home the phone was ringing and other people were calling and asking "did you see it"? One family called and said it hovered 20 feet above their neighbors house before it was gone. THey said they heard no noise from it at all. In all, several different groups of unrelated people had all individually seen it. The news did a report on it and my mom and I ended up being interviewed as a part of it.

We never found out what it was, so it remains a UFO in the sense it is unidentified.

[eShirl]

106. no I don't "believe in" UFOs

I think it's remotely possible "advanced life exists outside our solar system that may visit us from time to time," but I don't BELIEVE it is happening, no.

[Gregorian]

107. What I've seen cannot be explained as natural phenomenon.

And then some.

But I don't really care. Whatever is, is. And it's most likely pretty cool.

And I have a friend who actually has photos. But who cares?

[hiphopnation]

109. i "believe"

in science, reason and logic. given what we know of the universe, and more importantly what we don't know, i am lead to the reasonable conclusion that life of some kind or another is out there in the great big expanse of the universe. it's an odds game, isn't it? the chances are incredibly slim that the circumstances that must arise to foster life as we know it have arisen anywhere close to us -- but the universe as we know it is so vast and we know so little about it that the odds seem good that those circumstances have arisen elsewhere out there.

in summary:

do i "believe" in flying saucers and little green men and anal probes and abductions and experiments and the like? no.

do i believe there's a chance that another incarnation of life has evolved somewhere in the universe? yes.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

111. Carl Sagen

believed that UFO's visited us. I had the good fortune to have talked with him about this. He was more amazed by people who believed otherwise. I agree with Carl. We are not alone. And for those of you who believe interstellar space travel is impossible? Well... You have not explored wormhole theory. People living just 100 years ago would argue that carrying a small device and talking into it and hearing someone a thousand miles away answer as impossible. Now? It is common place. Science is full of surprises.

[lovuian]

114. I have to agree with carl on this I am amazed at how

many people still hold onto the fact that we are all alone in this Universe its mind boggling

You lucky dog Gilligan

[mondo joe]

129. But Carl doesn't agree.

"If I were speaking to a group of abductees, I think the first thing I would do would be to tell them that I'm sure to many of them the pain that is expressed is genuine, that they're not just making this up. And it's very important to be compassionate. At the same time, I would stress that hallucinations are a human common place, and not a sign that you are crazy. And that absolutely clear hallucinations have occured to normal people and it has a compelling feeling of reality, but it's generated in the head.

And that being the case, I would ask them to try to be as objective as they can and see if anything like that might, in fact, explain what they said happened to them. And I'd remind them that children, universally, have terrible nightmares, especially around 7 to 11, and wake up from sleep absolutely terrified about a monster, a witch, a goblin, a demon, and why shouldn't some of us retain that? I mean, there's no question that those monsters don't exist and they're hiding in the closet or under the bed. That's something generated in the mind. Why should it all go away when we grow up? We should retain some of that. And could not something like that be an explanation?

I would try to simply ask them to adopt the scientific method of multiple working hypothesis. Right now, they have only one hypothesis and their minds are, in many cases, closed to the alternative. I would ask them to do a serious consideration of the alternative, see if it makes sense."


http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc19.htm

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

123. Maybe Carl Sagen.

Carl Sagan, on the other hand, thought that alien visitation was a big colossal joke.

[slowry]

125. Agreed, but he'd probably use more forgiving language than "big colossal joke" hehe... n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

126. He'd probably be nicer about it.

But I bet he'd be thinking worse.

[mondo joe]

128. That's funny since he wrote so eloquently to the contrary of your description.

[defendandprotect]

166. Carl Sagan in an article I had read was oddly non-receptive to the idea of visitations . . ..

It was a long time ago, so I don't recall if he was saying that people were hallucinating even sightings --
I don't think he was addressing abductions ---

The idea that so many people would be hallucinating is insane -- as I thought his comments at the time!!!

Children's nightmares beginning from 7 to 11 -- ???
These abductions of children begin before they are born -- !!!

Unfortunately, many officials are intimidated in one way or another it seems ---

Carl Sagan was a huge disappointment on this issue.

[slowry]

170. Before they are born?? n/t

[defendandprotect]

174. In reading about the abductions . . . .

frequently families are tracked ---
and this is, of course, about reproduction ---

Many women claim that they had pregnancies -- and that they disappear.

Memories of having the fetus taken surgically ---

Presumably an alien/earthling can't really survive on this planet so they remain with the aliens.

These women frequently do have children of their own . . . but children tracked/abducted.



Haven't read anything very recent --- but there's lots of stuff around -- libraries and
book shops you can just browse thru.

[RufusTFirefly]

112. Why would "they" visit? What's there to see?

It seems almost a mathematical certainty that there is intelligent life on other planets (not in our solar system though).

But to go from this reasonable deduction to visitors from other worlds is a huge logical leap I'm not willing to make.

For starters, it smacks of the same inflated sense of our own importance that led to previous self-centered pronouncements throughout our history, including the notion that the Earth was the center of the solar system, our solar system was the center of the universe, our planet was the only one with water, etc.

Sorry, but I think we have way too high an estimation of ourselves.

We're just another species. And the Earth is just another planet. We just think we're special because we don't know any better.

[Shallah Kali]

141. Alien equvalent of Merkat Manor?

Or the equal of the European explorers of centuries ago who got kicks sailing around the world, hacking their way through dangerous critter filled jungles to bring back trinkets and biological specimens for their acquaintances back home to oo and ah over? Or could there be alien versions of Magellan and Amelia Earhart willing to risk all just to be the first to go that far?

[mondo joe]

151. If there were, would interstellar travel be the FIRST means of attempts to contact or

observe other planets?

[Shallah Kali]

153. Maybe not but then would aliens consider humanity intelligent enough

to do more than observe us the way we observe merkats and other critters? What if they tried contacting us using technology beyond our best scientists as beyond smoke signals as television broadcasts are and since we could not understand they look on us the way we look at parrots and maybe chimps who learn sign language? If we strike them as not as intelligent as their offspring why bother to contact us any more than an ambassador would sit down and try to make an alliance with the merkats for trade and exchange of ideas.

[mondo joe]

155. If they couldn't figure that out, they're not smart enough for interstellar travel.

Seriously.

Meerkats aren't sentient. We are.

[Shallah Kali]

158. Members of the human race still belive others are subhuman

For centuries some of those among the most advanced thinkers and scientists in Europe considered certain groups little better than apes and even displayed people they considered inferior in museums like animals in a zoo. Since my own kind can be that completely and utterly wrong, as well as idiotic and stupid, why should I assume these theoretical aliens would be immune to such racism? High intelligence in my own species does not make one immune from prejudice, racism, xenophobia, and general stupidity after all.

[mondo joe]

159. Now you've chaged your argument - is it that they're too advanced for us

or just like us?

In either event, any species capable of interstellar travel should be intelligent enough to know what a fantastically inefficient and uneconomic means it is. To do so only to spend decades hanging out getting spotted but never making official contact while eating cow rectums is a yet more improbable turn of events.

[Shallah Kali]

160. No I haven't changed my argument. High Intellegence does not prevent wrong conclusions

you are assuming any species intelligent enough to think up a means of interstellar travel would be incapable of assuming a sentient species was not sentient or not worth communicating with.

I am assuming they may be so advanced they think anyone without their technology either not intelligent or maybe too savage to bother contacting and maybe have no qualms over taking samples from humans and other earth species the way humans will tranquilize wild animals, take samples, tag, and release.

or maybe they follow some code similar to Star Trek where they only observe until a species reaches a certain point on their own.

I never said these possible aliens were mutilating cattle much less consuming the pieces. But who knows. Humans eat rocky mountain oysters, hunt rinos for their horns and male tigers for their naughty bits all the time. How's that for a theory. Cattle bits are the alien version of black rino horn and male tiger bits. Or maybe they are just a delicacy just the way in times past humans traveled thousands of miles on itty bitty boats with nothing but a compass and a prayer they would find land before running out of water to find rare spices.

[mondo joe]

175. No, I'm saying intelligence is intelligence.

If they can manage interstellar travel they ought to be able to figure out our genome in a snap, interpret our language and figure out how to communicate in it.

But if you want to cling to implausible fantasies, please do.

[defendandprotect]

167. The idea would be that they would be re-visiting us -- that we may be related .. . .

One concept is that we are hybrids -- or jumped a stage in evolution -- genetic engineering --

That 325,000 years ago or more visitors engineered life on this planet --

Why? Perhaps as a colony? Perhaps as friends in space? And, perhaps because they needed some security in regard to their own planet's condition? Or their own DNA?

Then again, others suggest that they may always be among us in the sense of simply another dimension existing on this planet --- in fact, both could be true.

One thing seems rather obvious -- that WAR and nuclear weapons are of high interest to these visitors --- they turn off our nuclear weapons.

And abductees for a long time would say that there were great warnings about global pollution and an end results of nuclear destruction.

Recently, they don't seem to be reporting these warnings any longer; perhaps it is now too late?

And we have so polluted and destroyed our planet that it is not only about humanity's end but the planet itself not surviving. Therefore, some suggest that those who have been abducted will in some way be saved from the destruction.

[Lerkfish]

113. My wife and I BOTH witnessed a UFO, now strictly, that means we couldn't

identify what we saw, but it was unusual and striking enough that we called the local air force base to report it.

They refused to take the report. And their behavior in refusing to take it was a bit odd and suspicious.

we saw a linear gold in color ribbon moving across the chicago skyline, that remained for several minutes, enough for me to grab my binoculars and verify there was no aircraft ahead or behind it. It was finite in length, and at one point made a right angle turn, in which the ribbon followed the right angle (like soldiers marching in formation).

It continued until it disappeared, not by crossing the horizon but by simply disappearing as I viewed it through the binoculars. My wife and I switched the binocs back and forth, and we both kept asking "do you see what I see?"

It was definitely a UFO by strict definition. whether it was extraterrestrial, I have no way to determine. It was certainly not USUAL, and my wife at the time was a flight attendant and very familiar with what SHOULD be expected to be in the skies.

[Klukie]

118. Okay...

at the risk of being labeled nuts, I have to admit that I saw something. I took the dog out one night around midnight and as I was waiting on the porch for him to do his business a green vapor flew in front of my face, hovered for about ten seconds and then shot up over my neighbors house. It could have been my eyes playing tricks on me, but I really don't think so. Whatever it was, it really freaked me out. It was very fast and nothing like what I would have thought a UFO to look like, but I guess that is why they are called unidentified.

[Hatchling]

119. I had to answer "Not sure"

I have definitely seen a UFO in 1970. That is, a craft that was flying in a manner our technology was not supposed to be able to do. It was daytime, it was an extremely large triangular craft flying very slow (maybe 5-10 mph) over the housetops at an very low altitude.

Did it have aliens in it? I have no way of knowing. It didn't stop and say hi nor did I get abducted.

My feeling is that it was some kind of secret government craft as this was near San Pedro.

Do I believe in aliens from other places. I don't disbelieve. There isn't enough evidence (anecdotal doesn't count, imo, just as my above tale doesn't really either). Is it possible? Certainly. But possible doesn't mean is.

[chaska]

122. Sort of no, but I have stood within 20 ft of one that hovered overhead.

What it could have been, I'll never know. Sure had the classic look though. Mother, brother and assorted neighbors were with me at the time (summer of 1965).

[Fox Mulder]

132. Absolutely.

I've seen them.

[Amonester]

133. Yes, me three. - eom

[RL3AO]

138. I don't believe the U.S. Government is secretly holding alien craft

as for the UFO, that is a very wide subject.

[SyntaxError]

149. Obviously you're an agent working for cancer man...

[SaveElmer]

142. Nope...

UFO's...as understood colloquially are bogus...there is always a logical...and local...explanation...

The nature of the universe is fairly well understood...the odds that some race has not only figured a way to travel light years across space, but decided to stop here is infinitesimal in the extreme...

[SyntaxError]

150. Other life out there somewhere, hell yeah... Aliens here on Earth, not so sure.

I find it hard to believe that we're the only intelligent life in this universe.. I mean, that would be pretty screwed up if that was the case, cause I don't think we're gonna make it... and then all life is gone. Anyways, as for UFOs, as in aliens visiting us here on Earth... who knows. There are some pretty interesting things in history that may suggest they've been here for awhile... Then again, us humans have a weird way of making up imaginary shit to explain the world away... you know, like God and physics.

[rucky]

154. 63% of DU are not "real progressives"

sources say.

[slowry]

156. This poll doesn't necessarily represent the majority of DU.

There are a lot of intelligent folks who ignore or hide such threads as these. I am not one of them.

[defendandprotect]

168. Think I agree with that . . . the real progressives aren't here posting . . ..

[lonestarnot]

157. Fuck no.

[Systematic Chaos]

163. Yes! And I really mean... Yes!

(Jon Anderson/Steve Howe/Rick Wakeman)

I could not take it oh so seriously really
When you called and said you'd seen a UFO
But then it dawned on me the message in writing
Spelt out a meeting never dreamed of before

I looked out, in the night
Strange and startling
Was this voice of time just saying
There's got to be a linking of everyone
Got to be a centre
It all comes flooding back

Arriving thru eons of times immortal power of the future to behold
Vessels of a different impression, none that we could ever hope to have
known

So look out, in the night
Once they arrive
On that perennial light
Impress a bolder empire of energy
In the ships we see
The coming of outer space

You say there's no reason to conjure
With the force as it has been known to be see
You say I'm a fool, a believer
Put your feet on the earth it is green

But look out, in the night
Wait for they arrive
To start such sciences anew
Here it is the coming of outer space
Such a pure delight
The coming of outer space


-Yes (Tormato) 1978

[defendandprotect]

169. I've always felt that UFOs/ETs were true and have been very interested in subject as so many are ---

These taboo subjects -- sex, UFOs, etal -- are the most interesting.

I've never seen a UFO but always wanted to -- BUT NOT ALONE --
I hope if I ever get to see one it will be in a huge crowd of people!!!

[slowry]

172. What planet are you from, that talk of sex or UFOs are taboo? n/t

[defendandprotect]

173. Just Catholic School--!!! Actually, the Vatican is still at it . . ..

and the Puritans are still trying to keep sex education out of our schools --
Hey, we're still trying to secure "choice" ---
and only got Plan B like two years ago ---

and Pope is asking pharmacists to not fill the perscriptions -- !!!!

Yes -- we have smut -- lots of pornography and hidden stuff making whores of women ---

But not really frank, open discussions of human sexuality -- and certainly not in our schools!!!

[Dewlso]

171. Sure there are...

Why wouldn't there be? People see them all the time, just they are not always associated with aliens.

[skyblue]

179. Invisible/shapeshifting and/or normal spacecraft, invisible/shapeshifting and/or regular aliens. nt

[blues90]

180. All I know is that back in 1962 of there about

We were living in a town called Schaumberg ILL and it was farmland turned into a new unincorporated area with a few spotted homes .

I knew all the sounds of all the machines which were either garbage trucks or snow plows but one day early like 2 am I was woken up by a loud heavy vibrating noise and I was a heavy sleaper at the time .

I looked out the window to see what it was , all I could see were bright lights spaced out where the object looked large and close . It didnot stay long but moved slowly and then was gone in an instant .

The next morning I asked the others in my family if they heard this and the only one who did was my mother so I was not the only one .

Certainly it was un-identified but what is was I could not say , but it was not close to any base or military area . we didn't even have jets as common place back then and I never saw any air craft of any sort in that area .

What makes people think there is no life on another planet far more advanced than us is beyond me , we have not explored space and who can say what space travel is like for other life forms when we don't really have a clue whats out there or what is even at the depths of our own ocean .

[Quantess]

181. I have never seen one, but I believe other people when they say they have.

I don't ever wish to meet an alien.

[karlrschneider]

182. Other: I believe in apostrophes!

:D

[lovuian]

183. So according to the Polls the Majority of DUERS Believe

that they exist

verses the ones who don't

:applause:

[defendandprotect]

184. Glad to see this thread popping up again . . .Great link in here and I lost it -- !!!!

Btw, I was in Barnes and Nobel the other night and naturally went to their UFO section which they call "New Age" which is a total contradiction of what UFO have historically been.

Like ZIP there now . . . one book on UFOs and it is counter the concept -- !!!!

Barnes and Nobel are lamest of bookstores now and I guess that's why they're still around.

Our libraries are under heavy siege -- and hope they'll be something left of them by the time
Bush leaves office.

Ironically, also, no new books on JFK assassination this year --- ?????

And, did they even mention it in MSM????

[upi402]

186. 35%! Christ. No wonder y'all still think there's an opposition party

fecking jayziz

[slowry]

189. zing! n/t

[defendandprotect]

191. YES:- 35% + 28% + 1% = 64% ......... NO:- 19% [Maybe/Other 17%] .......

Yes, but I have never seen one (120 votes, 35%) Vote
Yes, and I have seen one (95 votes, 28%) Vote
Yes, and I have had a close encounter (4 votes, 1%) Vote
I'm not sure, maybe... (45 votes, 13%) Vote
Nope, I don't believe in UFO's (64 votes, 19%) Vote
other (15 votes, 4%) Vote

---------------------------------------------

Proving nothing . . . IMO ---

Except whether wrong or right about Democratic Party betraying Democrats . . . .
I think there should be a PLAN B --

and there still isn't one ---

They don't even want to discuss it here at DU -- !!!!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

188. why do people expect aliens in round flying objects?

they might be invisible

[Anarcho-Socialist]

192. Aliens, no

A UFO is a flying object which has not been identified. Why do people automatically think it is aliens? Threads like these make DU look so stupid.

[notadmblnd]

195. I believe that there is just as much a possibility of intelligelent life outside our little world

as there is of an all powerful, all knowing perfect being (god) that created us. Because if god does exist, why would he stop at this fucked up place? He'd have to admit he wasn't infallible, all knowing, or perfect. Unless of course, god is really evil and enjoys the death and destruction that goes on here on earth. No, he'd have to move on and try again.