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mr blur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 11:03 AM
Original message
A message from some of your friends on the UK Forum re. Daily Mail
We in the UK Forum often notice threads on DU in which the Daily Mail is cited as a source.

We would never dream of telling people what they should or shouldn't read - or believe. We just wanted to explain why we roll our eyes and sigh every time the Daily Mail is quoted on DU.

Obviously, if DU-ers saw the Daily Mail every day you would, quite rightly, quickly make up your own minds about it. We certainly have no intention of patronising DU users on GD - but just as most of us had never heard of, say, Rush Lambaugh before coming to DU, many of you might not be familiar with this newspaper which gets quoted so often. Our view is, naturally, formed from a progressive, "liberal" stance.

For those of you not familiar with this crappy little right-wing tabloid, let me put it this way: It's as if a DU-er in the US posted a story and cited Ann Coulter as the source; there may possibly be some fact or, indeed, truth in what she says but who among you would feel comfortable accepting her as the primary source?

It may be helpful to know that during the 1930s the Daily Mail supported Nazism and Fascism - its controller, Lord Rothermere was a friend and supporter of both Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler.

These days the Mail is, I would say. the most right-wing British newspaper. Its popularity is with what we think of as Middle England - a section of the population that's hard to pin down but, I would say, is characterised by reactionary politics, fear of anything which threatens their comfortable little lives (immigrants, anyone under the age of 21, anyone who isn't white and doesn't love the queen - you know the kind of people I mean. They feel that the country started going downhill when we gave India back to its inhabitants). It tries to present itself as a serious newspaper but really it's obsessed with celebrities, minor royals, "Britishness" (whatever that is) etc.

The ideal Mail front page would feature a story in which a poor oppressed white British female christian employee was being "persecuted" for demanding the right to wear some vulgar symbol of her "faith" to work even though it contravenes the dress code to which she agreed when she took the job. If they could also work in something about Muslim doctors they would be ecstatic, and so would their readers.

Going back to Ann Coulter, the Mail is probably the only daily paper here which would feature her views without a hint of irony or condemnation.

The Mail's "Star" columnist - Richard Littlejohn - lives in a mansion in Florida, a location from which he happily pontificates about What's Wrong With Britain Since Churchill Died. He is a loud-mouthed bigot, and he fits in perfectly in Mail Land.

The Daily Mail is rabidly anti-reproductive choice, uses the words "homosexual agenda", engages with 'War on Terror' stories with the gusto of FOX News, and is supportive of pseudoscience and medical scare stories without foundation.

To quote a UD DU-er in the UK Forum:

"Right after Bill Clinton was elected the first time, the U.S. press was full of scare stories about British and Canadian health care.

A social group I belonged to was discussing theses stories over dinner when a newer member spoke up and said that he had lived in the UK for nine years, and that the papers the scare stories came from (The Daily Mail and The Sun) were the British equivalent of the National Enquirer."



A sampling of Mail front-pages, originally reported on the fantastic http://www.MailWatch.co.uk


Whipping up fear of Muslims:




Xenophobic nonsense:




Those evil Muslims again:




The gay PC-brigade going after those poor Christians:




Scare story bullshit:




Standing up for that most disadvantaged group, white men:




Yes, gosh there's people having sex.:




Stigmatising the poor, the unemployed, foreigners and Muslims in one swoop:




OMG the Bible is banned!!!1 Except that the story turned out to be bullshit:




Just in case there's any doubt. Here's the Mail reporting Bush's victory in 2004:




A link to Wikipedia on the Mail, which gives a pretty balanced picture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail


The Sun and the Daily Express also share some of the Mail's traits and prejudices, atlhough The Sun is mainly concerned with breasts, soccer and television soap stars (and preferably a "story" which includes all three) and the Express is still trying to come to terms with the fact that Diana's dead and was either murdered, abducted by aliens or probably blown up by dark-skinned men with beards. Or Prince Charles. Or his dad.


- Those Pinko Commie chip-eating Eurotrash,

mr blur
LeftishBrit
Anarcho-Socialist
non-sociopath-skin
Thankfully-in-Britain
Mr. Creosote
Nihil






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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is very true
The Daily Mail shares a lot of the same outlook as Fox News, but it's more willing to be openly biased and partisan than Fox News.

There was once a parody TV listings site, which included a spoof programme called "Daily Mail Island", a reality show in which the only contact for a group of people marooned on an island was the Daily Mail - with the result being a version of "Lord of the Flies" based on prejudice and bigotry.

Someone also tried this as a real experiment. Read about the effect on their behaviour:

Life on Daily Mail Island

A month spent reading the nation's leading mid-market newspaper took me into a terrifying, depressing world, filled with suspicion.


Please excuse me if I seem a little peculiar. I have just returned from a country where bubonic plague has broken out, violent criminals roam the streets, and child slavery is commonplace.

Millions of its inhabitants are malnourished, and danger lurks in seemingly innocent places - like milk, bread, and garden sprays. Ponies - yes, ponies - are slaughtered for the gastronomic pleasure of the country's neighbours. A Stasi-style surveillance state is secretly plotting to turn them all vegetarian, and to top it all there's even a Wicked Witch who - until very recently - exerted a malign influence over the nation's ruler.

Readers of the Daily Mail will recognise immediately where I'm talking about. Others will be surprised to learn that I'm referring to twenty-first century Britain. But this is the picture you'd get from unadulterated consumption of the Mail. I know, because I've just done it. It was weird.

...

"The ideal Daily Mail story," a former Mail journalist told me, "should leave you hating someone or something" - this, at least, was the advice he was given by his sub-editor at the time. As a mission statement, it shows remarkable consistency. The Mail's founder, Lord Northcliffe, is said to have ascribed the paper's success to the fact that it provided its readers with a "daily hate", and critics have long acknowledge this to be the case. "Democracy knows you as the poisoner of the streams of human intercourse, the fomenter of war, the preacher of hate, the unscrupulous enemy of a peaceful human society," wrote the author of A Letter to Lord Northcliffe in 1914, adding for good measure that he was "the most sinister influence that ever corrupted the soul of English journalism".

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/nick_angel/2007/08/my_daily_hell.html
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. You're moderating
from England..how cool is that!
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good information.
Do they do aliens? I mean from space?

--IMM
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. No - they're not that obviously silly
While they are 'tabloid' in size, and publish a lot of celebrity gossip as 'news', they aren't as clearly unserious as American tabloids. They think of themselves as a proper newspaper. Imagine a print version of a cross between Fox News and 'E!', but with less commitment to truth. I really mean that last part - Fox News relatively rarely lies directly, and is more likely to show its bias with what it decides to report, the quotes it uses, and so on. While the Mail does that too, it also uses sources that any US reporter in any media wouldn't touch with a bargepole.
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. I wouldn't be surprised if the Daily Express gets to that point
within the next six months. If claiming that the Duke of Edinburgh is an alien with extra mouths where his nipples ought to be, would sell more copies of the Diana Express, then Dirty Desmond will publish it ("in quotes of course to avoid legal retribution").
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. Sounds like the NY Post.
--IMM
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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for this
It's hard to understand the bias of another country's media outlets unless you read or watch all the time. K&R
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks. What a great post.
We Yanks thank you for the info! :hi:


My favorite tabloid cover ever:




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FloridaJudy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. But sometimes the WWN got it right....
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. very interesting post. K&R
thank you. :hi:
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. aka The Daily Lie
The Daily Mail is usually spoofed for its obsession with property prices, asylum seekers and scare stories. Sometimes referred to as The Daily Lie. In one cartoon in 2004 the magazine published a Mail-style, scare-story cartoon of a newspaper whose headline was 'what kind of society lets the Daily Mail be published EVERY DAY?'

The reference to "the magazine" refers to Private Eye. For the benefit of our cousins here some details of Private Eye : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Eye

I got into a lot of trouble here when I used the title of one of Rushton's Eye cartoons titled "There's a nasty nip in the air" which actually means its cold but I won't go there again.

Here's recent cover page :
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers.php?showme=1190
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you. You're right, we have little context when it comes to
the lesser known (Internationally at least) sources.-
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supernova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thank you mr blur and all the UK DUers!
:applause: :applause:

For anybody who has any doubts most of the trashy celeb news and gossip links at HuffPo lead to The Daily Mail. I.e., not the legitimate news items.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. If it's any comfort, some of us are fully aware of this.
But then I spend extensive time on a British forum.

I have wanted to say this, and I'll post it here. I'm painfully aware of the nearly solid wall that separates our countries, whether it's the written or televised media. We've all seen Monty Python. But for everything else, one must search. And even then it's slim. I've found the British comedy to be some of the most entertaining of all. My point is that there appears to be a blackout, in general. Or rather a lack of sharing. Most likely it's financial. Who would watch Some Mothers 'Ave 'Em? Or The Young Ones? After all, a country that let the show COPS run for more than a single night, let alone a second season, I should just give up on expectations.

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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. My telly stays on BBC America a lot
and I've even been watching the crazy ol' EastEnders soap on the local PBS here for 15 years.

I don't feel there's a blackout or wall between the 2 countries, but maybe I just have a different perspective.

I've been to the UK once and I adored it. :hi:

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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. We get their most popular shows. But not their best.
And even then, five to ten years late.

How about Harry Enfield and Chums? That is the best tv I've ever seen. You won't find that on American airwaves. BBC had it running for a while. But still, five years after the fact. I'd like to see world wide creative cooperation. But it's corporate. I guess that's how the world works. And I guess that's why I find punk so attractive. No rules.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. You'll find some of that stuff on youtube
all you need to know are the program names.

Check out "the fast show" and "little britain" too. Both used standard sketch formats each week.

This a Fast Show classic with Johnny Depp : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99ahcMHAWJ4 I doubt that could ever be shown in the USA anyway. It's just plain old after 10pm watershed stuff here.

And this with Elton John was actually done for charity : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvN9HAEyaMc
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. I've seen them all.
There was a great website that just got shut down last week. It was TV-Links. But evidently they were violating some law. They had everything. Every episode of the Young Ones. The Doctor Who, all the way back to the first show. It was a field day. I'm lucky I got to explore it.

But even they didn't have The Saint, or The Persuaders, or The Avengers. BBC runs those. But they mostly run reruns. And there were a lot of episodes of them.
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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Yes but I've found one way to get through the news Iron Curtain,
and it took many, many hours over recent weekends searching on the Web with bleary eyes before I finally found this live feed:

mms://217.10.152.220:80/bbcnews24?MSWMExt=.asf

Better access to UK news would definitely help us in the US defend our rights. Remember the recent example of how that Arkansas attorney general and Karl Rove buddy resigned the next day after BBC Newsnight ran the Greg Palast story that he masterminded vote caging operations. Then the fellow broke down crying while delivering remarks about his resignation a few days later.

Any UK DUers who might be willing to share online resources, like URL links or cookie files, that might help US DUers further pierce the Iron Curtain that prevents our access to more UK online news and broadcast outlets, will find that their sharing would be warmly welcomed and greatly appreciated!!!
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mr blur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Well of course there's the BBC Radio player,
including News and world news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/


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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. Thanks. Although they suddenly went from news to reading the Daily Mail.
And in case you don't know, LinkTV is a great resource, if you get cable. Amy Goodman broadcasts Democracy Now on that station.


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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Right. We Tivo Amy live every morning at 5 AM.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thank you all! We need your input to set us straight. I didn't know
how horrid a source that is until just now. Again, thanks.
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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. We love you UK DUers
Edited on Wed Oct-31-07 02:27 PM by redacted
and thank you for being here every day!

Just one question. About 1 percent of the Mail's content (the Health & Medicine stories) seems credible, especially the articles about cancer research & treatment. Here are two recent examples:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/dietfitness.html?in_article_id=485188&in_page_id=1798

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/healthmain.html?in_article_id=490575&in_page_id=1774&ICO=HEALTH&ICL=TOPART

Are these stories in fact credible? Anyone wish to comment? Muriel? mr blur?

And thanks for your post mr blur. Big thanks again to all!
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Run a mile from any medical stories in the Daily Mail
The Daily Mail is well known in the UK for promoting a lot of pseudoscience and quackery. You may get part-truths, total falsehoods mixed with some facts, but it's best to cross-check any Mail story with a more reputable source.
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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Big thankks Anarcho
You rock :yourock: :yourock: :headbang: :headbang:
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mr blur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Well, check this one:


A "breast" Wonder Drug which, unless I'm missing something, appears to be... drug-free
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redacted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
33. Wish I could read the text of that article
My mother in law is currently being treated by a combination of new targeted therapies at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston because traditional platinum-based chemotherapy like Cisplatin isn't very effective on some head and neck cancers. Some don't regard these drugs as "chemotherapy" in the traditional sense because their mechanism of action is completely different and the side effects much less severe (although nausea has been replaced by rashes and skin loss).

She's getting an infusion right now as I type this.
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mwooldri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. Don't trust The Sun either. Especially when they put this up:


At least they're blatant about it and freaking obvious. Fox Noise just gets under your skin but pretends to be real news.
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mr blur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. And the next day (when Labour lost) they ran this:


...and they were probably right.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Probably were right, alas
The Sun's two most notorious headlines, both from the 80s, were the single word in huge type "GOTCHA!" when the General Belgrano was sunk during the Falklands War, and their tribute to our neighbours across the Channel, "HOP OFF YOU FROGS!"

During the 1980s miners' strike, it is said that some miners who disregarded the strike and continued to work were taunted by their peers not with the traditional 'Scabs!' or 'Blacklegs!' but 'Sun readers!'
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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. You forgot "FREDDIE STARR ATE MY HAMSTER!"
I thought that was the most famous one.
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non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Here's a recent example of how it works ...
The Sun runs an anti-muslim article as an "Exclusive" with only one point of reference - a "relative" of one of the teachers:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article407311.ece

and the Daily Mail parrots it with no other points of reference:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=490863&in_page_id=1770

But, as is obvious from the Readers' Feedback, the story is now a proven fact!

The Skin

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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
28. Thanks guys!
I see posts from this rag waaay too much now, and it only took what three of you guys (Mr.Blur, Leftish Brit and Anarcho-Socialist) to point this out to me in the past....:hi:
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KatyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
35. I've never really read the Daily Mirror
although it looks like a more porny (if that's actually a word) version of the Sun, but they did have a great cover after the 2004 election:



Love it.

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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. The Mirror is a Red-top tabloid
It doesn't have page 3 girls (so it's actually not porny) and it may be the only left-wing national tabloid but I still don't rate it as a source. The previous editor, the ghastly Piers "moron" Morgan was fired after it was revealed that the Mirror had faked pictures of British soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mirror#Fake_abuse_photos

My advice is stick to the TV news websites (BBC, ITV et al) and the broadsheet newspapers as UK sources and you'll still find plenty of good stuff which should stand up to close scrutiny.
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KatyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. I'm pretty much an Independent reader
although sometimes they get on a high horse in some issues, and can be depressing :D I also read the Guardian occasionally, and pick up the Times every once in a while (I'm in the UK btw).
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I like the Guardian and the Indie
Both are not without their faults, but they're usually good sources.
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T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. My own preferences are the Guardian and the Telegraph
Besides that, I must mention that if I'm in London I always find myself hovering up the Evening Standard and all those free papers you get such as Metro and the London Paper. The Evening Standard isn't quite so much of a propoganda rag and tends to influence how next days papers report stories so that's worth look at as a source on occasion.
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. Others just cut the crap and asked "How can 59 million americans be so stupid"
I actually still have a copy of that paper somewhere.
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-02-07 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
40. Thanks for this
I have often wondered about this.
Much appreciated!
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